Marketing the band

[blueross]

New thread to address this thought that came up:

 

"We're playing $200 bar gigs with 5 people"....

 

And WHAT are you going to do to FIX that? !!

 

I was expecting that question. Perhaps a good topic for another thread. Our problem is the guys who hate selling are getting the gigs (the drummer and me) and the people who actually do sales haven't yet hit the pavement. Our marketing machine is in its infancy and always has been.

 

There's also just LA. Too many aspiring bands and club/bar owners don't really need to pay much. I'm not sure how we're going to crack a corporate or agency circuit as we're not the usual cover or party band.

 

Have at it Ellwood... I'm all eyes.

[Dr. Ellwood]

LOL!! Ok, I'm going to go look at your site, be back in awhile...

[Dr. Ellwood]

OK, I count 22 or so tunes, you said you where adding more tunes soon? how is that going? and it does NOT look like you are captializing on your singer YET..is this true?....that set list as it is today will NOT get you into corporate gigs...auto shows, other high paying gigs...BUT it can be FIXED. I've got to be blunt here, If I was your manager I would not want to shop that set list around, if you need to be a blues band it's gonna be a rough go. If a agent would take you on (doubtful) he would have to shop gigs that concentrate on your blues set list. Limited product here, somehow you have to open up the whole band... for one thing your have no keyboards! you have to start thinking about a keyboard player.

[blueross]

Whoops... That page is out of date. I don't have the current set list here at work. I'll upload it here when I get back home.

 

Capitalizing on our current singer how?

[Dr. Ellwood]

Whoops... That page is out of date. I don't have the current set list here at work. I'll upload it here when I get back home.

 

Capitalizing on our current singer how?

 

Ok Good!

[Dr. Ellwood]

I listened to her, she may NOT be used to her full potential! but lets take a look at the updated set list.

[blueross]

She sings 90% of the songs and I'm getting better at recording her. She's freakin' amazing live. (There are two other songs on the Epitunes page recorded more recently. I need to get off my ass and update the main site, thanks for the nudge.) We two guitarists sing a few songs to give her a break on a long night.

[Dr. Ellwood]

OK, I count 22 or so tunes, you said you where adding more tunes soon? how is that going? and it does NOT look like you are captializing on your singer YET..is this true?....that set list as it is today will NOT get you into corporate gigs...auto shows, other high paying gigs...BUT it can be FIXED. I've got to be blunt here, If I was your manager I would not want to shop that set list around, if you need to be a blues band it's gonna be a rough go. If a agent would take you on (doubtful) he would have to shop gigs that concentrate on your blues set list. Limited product here, somehow you have to open up the whole band... for one thing your have no keyboards! you have to start thinking about a keyboard player.

_________________________

 

[Dr. Ellwood]

Take a look at the set lists or promo materials that bands in your area are playing, look for the bands that are getting more money than you are getting, you will get a idea WHY they are demanding and getting the money, then take a look at their management, get out and go to some of their gigs, make notes on how they dress and present their bands. You are either going to get on a commercial track or you are going to continue playing only the tunes you personally like....both will not happen.

[blueross]

Here's our set list from Saturday night.

 

Walking By Myself, Gary Moore

The Hustle Is On , Taj Mahal

Rock Steady, Aretha

Love Her With A Feeling, Taj

The Thrill Is Gone , BB

One Way Out, Allman Bros

I Could Deal With It , Little Charlie & Nightcats

Down In Muddy Water, Aaron Neville

Cold Sweat , Boneshakers (James Brown)

Someone Else Is Slippin In , Buddy Guy

Baby Did A Bad Bad Thing , Chris Isaac

Maybe Someday Baby, Delbert McClinton

Fool for your Stockings, ZZ Top

Shakey Ground , Etta James

Chain of Fools, Aretha

I Don't Need No Doctor , Ray Charles (John Mayer & John Scofield)

Son of a Preacher Man , Dusty Springfield/Joan Osborne

Custard Pie , Led Zeppelin (different version)

Ball And Chain, Boneshakers

Confessin' the Blues, BB

You've Been So Good Up To Now, Lyle Lovett

Sweet Home Alabama , Skynyrd (just for the reaction it gets)

Born under a Bad Sign , Various

Baby what you want me to do, Etta

Sweet Little Angel, Etta

+1 original

 

"You are either going to get on a commercial track or you are going to continue playing only the tunes you personally like....both will not happen."

Therein lies the rub, eh? The goal has been to be a blues band. We have a few great blues clubs around that we have not played yet, but I'm told that even those haven't been paying much. I'm sure that's different for touring acts, but not for local 'hobby' acts.

 

The acts I know do well here are tribute bands. Not going there. Then there are the Hollywood clubs where any pay depends on the crowd pulled in. 45 minute sets, use a backline and the house PA. Not very interested in that, either. I can't say I know the scene in general (in part because there isn't just one). I don't really get out much except when we play, so, there's much I don't know.

[Dr. Ellwood]

As I see (and have always seen it) there are a couple of ways to go. 1.your specialize,your blues set lists are specialized but if there is no strong scene for blues at your level either your don't have a real grasp of the market or the market is saturated, saturation means either no gigs or gigs that are not worth loading your gear. 2. You generalize your offerings, you do a across the board covering every popular rock hit from just about every period of rock/R&B/Punk/Country Rock. I have two bands, one very focused 60'/70s covers and one strictly Blues/R&B, my market supports both very well, but that does not help you with your market. So, I think you may not really know your market as well as you could (possible) If I'm wrong I apologize. So research might be indicated, LA must have plenty of opportunities for corporate gigs, car shows,support acts for industry parties, private clubs that hire bands for special celebrations etc. If you where a entertainment agent in LA what would you want a band to have ready to perform to perfection? {if you can't answer that --- ask them) how would you want the band to present itself, how would you want the band to look on stage? what would help you get gigs that pay well for you and your bands? Are you in a Union? Are you in contact with managers who book entertainment for large halls where special celebrations are held? not weddings but other events. Have you contacted your local municipal organizations, city governments, recreational departments within city gov't? large golf clubs with big banquet facilities etc. Around here in the Detroit area Ski Clubs are huge both during the skiing season and in the summer, car clubs and non color wearing motorcycle clubs are huge. Outdoor end of road rallies, custom car shows. Remember clubs and organizations that may on the surface seem square may not be, I play for lots of engineering organizations where the people there love to rock (they love rock an love to party) and they have LOTS of money!!! Is your singer happy with the material she is doing? or if she is would she like to spread out abit? I see she has some jazz vocal traing, what are the possiabilities there for the band and versitility? how is she at modern country rock? Just some questions to stimulate ideas .....

[Dr. Ellwood]

Ok and here's another thing, look at your band picture, you and the girl look fine, the other three look like they have been sleeping in their jeans for three weeks! Some things are going to have to change as far as stage looks (and band pictures go) if it was your job to shop this band, as a agent would you like the guys to look sharper, like the lady does? take none of this personally, it is not meant to be mean....any of this is trying to uplift and improve the chances of you getting the band to the next level of gigs and MONEY!!....>

[Dr. Ellwood]

Another thought here, you meantioned not wanting to be a tribute band,good! but think about being a tribute ERA band, one that specializes in rock from a certain period...covering major hits and very known album tracks from all very popular bands of the entire era, in all areas of Rock and R&B.

[blueross]

You're right about my grasp of the market. It's why I'm asking! Great questions and for most I have to answer "no". But I'll be posing the same questions to other members as I try to get them to kick start the marketing. I'm already the guitarist/vocalist/sound man/logistics manager/communications director/web master/transcriptionist/engineer/producer/onstage director/whatever for the band and I can only do so much! And did I mention I hate marketing and sales?

 

Love the idea of a keyboard player, but not until we solve this problem. Singer is game for just about anything. Opening it up to have a broader appeal is possible in the long run yet difficult just due.

 

Ah... Pictures... Don't get me started on pictures... But no, I'm not taking anything personally. It's a tough market and it takes a dispassionate observer for me to learn anything or get TRUTH.

[Dr. Ellwood]

LOL you'll get TRUTH HERE!!... but that's the beauty of Forums for guitar players isn't it! I'm not sure but I don't think we have any gigging musicians working in LA, we have LA players but they are recording or have been out of the market for awhile... but we will keep a eye out for some, I would also look on the Keyboard Forum and the Bass forum for LA gigging players too for some local insight. If your singer does not get some good gigs for good money ..... (prediction) she will split..don't let that happen, let it be known in no uncertain terms that these things WILL be addressed and SOON!

[Dr. Ellwood]

It is overtime for a sit down (no playing, no instruments, no amps) band meeting of great depth!! note taking, task assignment, communal soul searching, action items with report back dates and general band nastiness!!! and action!!

[blueross]

Hmmm... I might have to lure them with promises of food...

[Dr. Ellwood]

Hmmm... I might have to lure them with promises of food...

 

Right, but I would think the possibility of better and higher paying gigs would get their attention too!

[A String]

It may sound rough, but it's true. If you want the money, you play the tunes that people want to hear. You certainly can play your own stuff or your favourite "B side" stuff, but you won't land the big gigs with it.

 

I made a really good living, full time, playing songs that I was sick of playing. Stuff like "Roadhouse Blues", "Sweet Home Alabama", "Mustang Sally" etc. Play the songs that you hear on a classic rock station, and you'll be set. Try to pick songs with harmonies too. The more harmonies the better. It really gives a band a professional, "powerhouse" sound.

 

Of course you need to have a wide range, just in case. We had country songs (even a banjo and a fiddle) for rooms that leaned to the country side, classic rock for the general crowd and some slightly heavier stuff (I use the term heavier, lightly ), for the more rambunctious crowds.

 

The other aspect that Lee covered is the looks on stage. Aside from dressing right, you also need to act right. Look out over the crowd, smile, move around. Basically, look like you are having a ton of fun. The more fun you are having, the more fun your audience will have. Also, try to have a good light show.

 

Good lights, good stage presence and good songs are what will make the difference between a "playing for free beer" gig and a "Playing for a living" gig.

[Eric Iverson]

This has been a very interesting thread!

 

I've done a few studio sessions (for wannabes, not professionally, but playing alongside professionals), but really have never depended on music for a living.

 

Nothing wrong with playing classic rock in bars for a living, but aren't there are other ways to make a living at music? Studio work, teaching (even full-time at a university) and there are even some jazz and classical guitarists who make a living at it... unfortunately, it seems to be only a small percentage who really "hit the big time".

 

But musical quality and $$$$ don't seem to always go hand in hand.

[blueross]

I'm sure there are lots of ways to make a living playing music, but we're not trying to make a living at it. We're a bunch of people who like to play out but have careers that pay the bills. The band is for feeding the soul. We've always said we're not in it for the money - and we do charity gigs or favors at the drop of a hat - but neither do I want to give away something of value. I know those who hire bands do it because it makes them money and we provide a decent product, so we should be able to get more than gas money out of it.

 

Rather, I want to get GAS money out of it, if ya know what I mean...

[picker]

Having given up the hope of rock superstardom, I have only three reasons for playing out these days;

 

1. To facilitate worship or evangelism.

 

2. For my own enjoyment.

 

3. To make enough money to provide at least some GAS relief.

 

Usually, it's about the 1st two. So far, I haven't made enough money to cover very many equipment expenses.

[Hardtail]

It may sound rough, but it's true. If you want the money, you play the tunes that people want to hear. You certainly can play your own stuff or your favourite "B side" stuff, but you won't land the big gigs with it.

 

I made a really good living, full time, playing songs that I was sick of playing. Stuff like "Roadhouse Blues", "Sweet Home Alabama", "Mustang Sally" etc. Play the songs that you hear on a classic rock station, and you'll be set. Try to pick songs with harmonies too. The more harmonies the better. It really gives a band a professional, "powerhouse" sound.

 

Of course you need to have a wide range, just in case. We had country songs (even a banjo and a fiddle) for rooms that leaned to the country side, classic rock for the general crowd and some slightly heavier stuff (I use the term heavier, lightly ), for the more rambunctious crowds.

 

The other aspect that Lee covered is the looks on stage. Aside from dressing right, you also need to act right. Look out over the crowd, smile, move around. Basically, look like you are having a ton of fun. The more fun you are having, the more fun your audience will have. Also, try to have a good light show.

 

Good lights, good stage presence and good songs are what will make the difference between a "playing for free beer" gig and a "Playing for a living" gig.

 

Great advice! Thanks.

[blueross]

This is one of those times when I wish I were inclined to drink heavily. Fortunately for me, I guess, alcohol is self limiting. Tends to make me sleepy.

 

The band has hit the rocks. Lead singer has decided to work on other things. Lee's prediction comes true, though for different reasons. Yes, I think I know the reasons and no I can't post them in public, other than wanting to pursue solo and original stuff. Lack of gigs/money doesn't seem to have been a reason.

 

So, time to rebuild. Again. This time, I'd be taking into account all the advice above, probably steering away from blues and back into covers for fun shows. Maybe some other projects in the blues realm.

 

This blows.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Sorry to hear that Blue.... I do both, the cover Classic Rock act and a Blues act, works out very well.

[Dr. Ellwood]

BUT WAIT BLUE!!......are you saying the band is broken up because the girl singer left??? your not gonna break up a band cuz of THAT are you? or is the more too it?

[Dr. Ellwood]

If your going to start from scratch again (just you putting together a new band) make sure everybody in the band is a good singer on their own, make a big part of the auditions be singing and end up with 4 or 5 lead singers,guys that could front a band doing all the singing.

[blueross]

There's more to it. In part, the bass and lead guitar players are really blues guys and aren't inclined toward a basic cover band.

 

And the vocals were already on the radar, but thanks for the reminder.