Ross Brown Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Finally got the band to agree to add some songs with a little more groove to them. We added What Kind of Woman is This? (Buddy Guy) last night. Guitarist said to me afterwards, I thought that this is the kind of stuff we were gonna play more of anyway. He was excited and we had a lot of fun with it considering it was the first time through. Also played an incredible "blues" jam while the singer was in the bathroom. We were really tearing it up.... I managed to get lost during Sunshine of Your Love. We have played that stinkin song a million times. I thought it would be impossible to get lost in that one. I had no words just a red face. Our drummer has all of the beats per minute listed on his set list behind his drums. Every once in a while I see him quickly fooling with a handy little metronome that he has before we start. Most songs he doesnt need to check and he is dead on. I really like the fact that he needs to get it right. It has taken us a long time to find a drummer that can keep time, likes to practice and actually shows up early to rehearsal. Our demos still stink, but it is the recording and (hopefully) not us. We are trying to record them at rehearsal. Other people that are not in the band say the same thing (recording sucks, band sounds good). I just had to tell someone... Finally, seems to be coming together. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Good news! What are you using to record? Is volume the problem? http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 I was afraid someone would ask. It is a Tascam something or other... the singer is doing all of that work. His recorder, his idea. I copied the manual but haven't taken the time to read it. Orignial problem was vocals ands drums were too loud. It is getting better, we muffled the drum set with pillows and paper stuffed boxes. Turned up the bass and guitar and turned down the vocals. We are recording the whole room. The recorder is a little limited... "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbn Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Good to hear that things are coming together for you. I doubt you'll get a "great" recording just using room mic's. If you can record the bass and vocals direct, mic the speaker cab(s) for the guitar(s) and then use a kik drum mic and 2 overheads for the drums you can get a pretty good sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 A piece of me is just waiting for everyone to come to the conclusion that we need help/better recording equipment/studio time. The singer has been working hard at trying to get it right. I don't want to dismiss his efforts, he'll get to the same conclusion shortly, I suspect. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 I am trying to drop down from Type A personality to Type A minus.... how am I doing? "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Our drummer has all of the beats per minute listed on his set list behind his drums. Every once in a while I see him quickly fooling with a handy little metronome that he has before we start. Most songs he doesnt need to check and he is dead on. I really like the fact that he needs to get it right. It has taken us a long time to find a drummer that can keep time, likes to practice and actually shows up early to rehearsal. I admire a drummer who wants to get it right. I have tried to get several drummers to use this method. Still looking for one to do it right. Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo-London Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 I do this when playing drums - but that's because I find it very difficult to count the band in at 82 BPM, for example, with any kind of accuracy, ie I'm a novice. I really admire this ability in a drummer. I too had a band practice this week and it was great. Well done Ross for sharing your thoughts. Davo "We will make you bob your head whether you want to or not". - David Sisk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Good news, Ross! Thanks for sharing! I think that an experienced audio engineer could make a demo-quality recording of your band with the equipment you already have. Sometimes it's not about the equipment but how well you use it. So if you continue down the DIY road be prepared to take a crash course on audio engineering. As NUTT alludes to, you may be better off multitracking than trying to record in the "big room". It takes a bit of skill (or a lot of trial and error) to get everything in the room set up just right. You may find it easier to use a special stereo bar microphone stand adapter to aid in mic placement. There are three steps to recording: tracking, mixing and mastering. In the "big room" I imagine you're essentially mixing before you're tracking by placing things in the room and setting their levels. Once you've got it figured out (and written down) it won't be a hassle anymore, but it may take some doing to get to that point. If you can't get the mix right, though, you can't begin tracking. You can't fix the mix after tracking in this case, because everyone is being recorded to one stereo track. When multitracking the tracking is fairly straight-forward. Tracking bass can be as simple as plugging in through a DI, setting the level, and then hitting record. (Life is so much easier when you don't have to deal with microphones. ) If you don't do a good job tracking you can't fix it later, so don't take things too lightly. And it can take a while to learn how to produce a good mix. In either case you still have to finish up with mastering. I'm still learning about this so I can't help you here. Moreso than mixing, IMO, mastering depends on a good monitoring system and room (and a great pair of ears). Whether going "big room" or multitracking, you're going to run into problems with the room you're recording in. Check out Ethan Winer's forum here for ideas on how to acoustically treat your room. If you've got your mic placement figured out and your room treated and everything still sounds kind of dull and muddy it may be time to replace those $100 dynamics with some condensers. (Or, you may find the dynamics to be perfectly acceptable for your demo.) Ask Dave Sisk about drum mics; I think he uses ribbons for overheads. I'd guess a $200 stereo mic pre would be sufficient for a demo, but don't take my word for it. There's other stuff you might want to have in your signal chain, like compression, but I won't get into that, either. If you went the multitracking route you're going to need at least a decent playback system to do the mixing. I wouldn't recommend mixing with headphones (and neither does homerecording.com). Again, the room becomes an integral part of the equation during playback; you may have to acoustically treat this room, too. Here's one guy's take on DIY mastering. Notice that his justification for using headphones is that he believes most of his listeners will also be using headphones. Do booking agents listen to demos through headphones? Just to be safe I'd think you'd want to go the reference monitor route. Don't forget the room! It's possible to hire an audio engineer to master your mix, or even mix and master your tracks. It becomes a "garbage in, garbage out" kind of thing, though. Probably not a big deal for a demo, but the end product would sound even better if the entire project were done by an experienced engineer with very expensive equipment from start to finish. So, although I believe the ideal would be to hire a studio to do the demo, I have to be realistic. I've heard quite a few bar bands that really wouldn't benefit from a studio demo. If the singing or playing is a little sloppy a good recording won't help. OTOH, a diva is going to be compelling even on a crappy recording (at least to a certain level of crappiness). However, when given the choice between two bands of equal talent, which will the booking agent choose? The one with the better recording? [And, just because I can't make up my mind today: OTOH, does the booking agent hire the band that sends in a crappy demo or the one that he doesn't know about because they don't even have a demo yet? ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 I am trying to drop down from Type A personality to Type A minus.... how am I doing? You look really good. I have not seen a smile like that in months. Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenthemimic Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Ross, It feels good, don't it? When things finally come together. I wish I could find that again! I left the band I helped form last year because of a drummer who couldn't keep time and nobody (including me) wanted to get rid of him because the band was his life. Then I went on a hard rock singing career which I realized is not for a 43 year old with a family. Now I have been auditioning with bands and it seems I'll never find the right mix again. I long for those "rewarding nights" of practice. I'm jealous!!! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted May 11, 2007 Author Share Posted May 11, 2007 Thanks for the replies. The latest "demo" was a lot better. Drums (snare) still too loud. I do believe that it will continue to be crappy until we get help, but we are all learning a lot. Just hope it doesn't start to hold us up (which it soon will be). "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted May 15, 2007 Author Share Posted May 15, 2007 I should be fined!! I forget what song we were playing last night but I delivered a dud... No fine for that, but then, I plugged into the tuner to check my tuning because certainly it must be the bass.... Right?? It wasn't the bass, it was me... "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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