Technique to get out of getting lost in a bass walk

[Jere-n-Deb]

I am in a new genre, somewhat, I know blues, but we are now venturing into country, rockabilly, blues stuff & some of the songs I am not at all familiar with & am really improvising on bass walks; however say for example we are doing a simple g-c-d chord progression & some songs have an area in the song where the d is played for extra measures or the c is played for only a brief single measure - I am doing a basic major or 7th or minor walk & the chord changes & I am in mid walk & get locked up without having a way out except to just jump into the next chord.

 

I don't know if this can be answered directly, but if this strikes a 'chord' with anyone please share your advise.

 

Thanks,

 

Hope to see you on the other side of the update/upgrade...

[jeremy c]

There is a lot more to do on walking bass other than just playing the chord notes. If there is only one measure of a chord, your goal should be to hit the root on one and spend the other three notes getting to the next chord.

 

If you know where the next chord is, you're not getting lost, you just need more ideas on how to get from one chord to the next.

 

Just hang in there and listen to other examples of people playing the same kind of music. Get Ed Friedland's excellent book on walking bass (volume one is the one you should get...volume two will take you way out of what would be appropriate for a country swing band.) There are other things I could recommend but I think the forum is going to shut down at any moment.

 

See you on the other side.

[Nicklab]

I think the best thing to do here is to get into specifics. Say you're playing a blues in G with a quick 4. So how am I going to get from G to C in that first bar? I can think of 5 pretty standard ways to do that.

 

G - B - D - B - C

1 - 3 - 5 - 3 - 4

This one is pretty simple. You're not touching on a 7th or an accidental here, and the resolution from 3 to 4 feels pretty natural.

 

G - B - D - F - C

1 - 3 - 5 -Dom7-4

Here you open it up a little to add the dominant 7th. That's pretty standard in blues walking. And the resolution of the dominant 7th to the 4 feels pretty natural and it should. That F relative to the C is a 4th, and resolving from a 4 to a 1 is a very natural cadence in western music.

 

G - B - D - E - C

1 - 3 - 5 - 6 - 4

This is more of a rock and roll variation on the previous example. But in this version the E is the 3rd of C, and again we get a pretty natural resolution when we get to that bar of the 4 chord.

 

G - B - D - Db- C

1 - 3 - 5 - b5- 4

This one gets a little cute and uses an accidental that's not in the key we're playing in. But that accidental winds up sounding so powerful relative to what we're doing that the resolution to the 4 chord gets a little more umph. It sounds very cool when you do this, but it can get a little old if you overuse it.

 

G - F - E - D - C

1 -dom7-6 - 5 - 4

I like this one as it gets you out of the arpeggio based pattern that a lot of blues and rockabilly players might get stuck in. It's another device to throw in your toolkit. With this one I may even substitute a b5 for the 5.

 

 

There are plenty of other walking patterns, but I think this can illustrate just how many options you have in getting between two chords with very standard chord tones and maybe an accidental. That's not even accounting for tempo, what kind of rhythm, etc. The variables are so vast that it's just awesome. And you'll find what works for you in time.

[Ross Brown]

listen,practice,listen,practice,listen,practice,listen,practice,listen,practice,listen,practice...

[ZZ Thorn]

I second Ed Friedland's book "Walking Bass Lines". I found it very helpful. He lists the main approaches in walking:

 

Scalar - using the scale (I guess this can be subdivided in arpeggio or chordal, as nicklab illustrated)

Dominant - taking the fifth

Chromatic - using the note above or below the target note

 

My question is: are there other 'named' techniques like this we can use in walking bass lines?

[jeremy c]

I'm taking the fifth on that question.

[...]

Another thing that can make your walking lines sound better and seem to flow more naturally is to try to spend 2 bars moving in one direction at a time - meaning you can go up the scale for two bars and then down the scale for two bars. Fill with passing tones as necessary or as you feel necessary. The motion that you can create with going one direction for a longer period of time is nice.

[Ross Brown]

Another thing that can make your walking lines sound better and seem to flow more naturally is to try to spend 2 bars moving in one direction at a time - meaning you can go up the scale for two bars and then down the scale for two bars. Fill with passing tones as necessary or as you feel necessary. The motion that you can create with going one direction for a longer period of time is nice.

 

It is important to listen to what the rest of the band (guitar in my case) is doing, of course. This will affect what sounds good. This is what makes the sound of the blues, to me. The band playing together. Just when I am sure I know what I am going to do next, something else happens. I like your idea and use it, but sometimes it just doesn't work out.

[...]

Another thing that can make your walking lines sound better and seem to flow more naturally is to try to spend 2 bars moving in one direction at a time - meaning you can go up the scale for two bars and then down the scale for two bars. Fill with passing tones as necessary or as you feel necessary. The motion that you can create with going one direction for a longer period of time is nice.

 

It is important to listen to what the rest of the band (guitar in my case) is doing, of course. This will affect what sounds good. This is what makes the sound of the blues, to me. The band playing together. Just when I am sure I know what I am going to do next, something else happens. I like your idea and use it, but sometimes it just doesn't work out.

 

Exactly. Like everything in music sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you need to just play the root note. Sometimes you need to play the most dissonant noise possible. Sometimes you need a beach ball and a can of whipped topping. Whatever is applicable at the time. Just always be sure to listen to your bandmates because what they are doing is going to help determine what you should be doing.

[Paul K]

Handy, handy tip for when you're lost (not that that's ever happened to me

 

Just keep thumpin' away. But I do mean THUMP! Mute the E and A string so that the notes you play are more like X's than notes but are still in time; sort of make it sound like a kick drum. Listen to where the rest of the band is, and then make your entrance back in. Look natural. No stink faces. Nobody will even know.

 

Peace

Paul K

[ZZ Thorn]

I'm taking the fifth on that question.

 

Is that because there is basically every option - every note is available if you know what you're doing - and it'd take too long to explain it? I was wondering if there's any specific techniques like the few I posted.

 

They say for guitarists, "When in doubt, drop out." For bassists, it's 'When in doubt, go chromatic'.

[jeremy c]

It was a joke!

 

One bar walks from G to C?

 

G A Bb B

G F E D

G G A B

G D G B

G B D B

G B D Db

G E D B

G D G D

G A A# B

G D G D

G B D E

G G B D

G G D B

 

Just a few ideas off the top of my head...I don't have a bass in my hands at the moment.

[ZZ Thorn]

I don't joke about walking basslines, Jeremy. Fun has no place in music.

[Nicklab]

It was a joke!

 

One bar walks from G to C?

 

G A Bb B

G F E D

G G A B

G D G B

G B D B

G B D Db

G E D B

G D G D

G A A# B

G D G D

G B D E

G G B D

G G D B

 

Just a few ideas off the top of my head...I don't have a bass in my hands at the moment.

 

Wow. That was much more concise than the drivel I posted. :grin:

[...]

Jeremy has a way of doing that.

[Nicklab]

Yes, he does.

 

http://menacingmorons.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/owned.jpg

[Eric VB]

Good thoughts so far. I think some of you have already touched on what I'm about to say.

 

If you're improvising, there is no wrong note. By that I mean you won't be chastised if you don't play note-for-note with some recording. It's still possible to hit a clunker but that's another topic.

 

While there are guidelines for walking, there aren't any hard rules. A while back PhilW posted some excellent guidelines, as did Jeremy and others IIRC.

 

So how exactly are you getting "locked up"? Because you expected a chord to last longer, you started a typical walk (like one of the ones posted here), and now it's been cut short? Why is that a problem?

 

Most of the variability in a twelve-bar blues -- at least the stuff that hits you quickly -- is in the turnaround section. That is, the last few bars before the repeat.

 

So you're in G and you expect 4 counts to lead up to the D so you start to play G B C Db. But after only 2 counts the chord changes to D. You've played G B and are about to play a C. Maybe you've already committed to the C and there's no turning back. Well, more often than not that D is going to be a D7 anyway so there's nothing wrong with the C. [That's right, you don't have to hit the root on the down beat all the time!] If you catch yourself in time feel free to play the D. If it's not a D7 chord and for whatever reason the C just sounds heinous then you've hit a clunker. It's not the end of the world and there are ways to deal with it.

 

PaulK hit on something very important. The casual listener is probably more apt to notice a fluctuation in the rhythm before a bad pitch (harmony). It's important to push on no matter what and keep to the tempo. Sometimes when you disengage your brain a bit and just let your fingers go you'd be surprised at how well it turns out.

 

So back to the example above. Let's say you managed to play the D on the downbeat instead of the C. But now your mind is racing to try figure out what to play next because you weren't expecting this sudden change. What pitch from this chord -- uh, what is it, oh yeah D -- will walk up/down to the next chord, uh, what is that, um, oops it's already here: too late.

 

If you're on a good note, especially a root, there's no harm in just hitting it again while you regain your wits. Go ahead and play another D. Just because you're walking doesn't mean you have to choose a different pitch for each beat.

 

Sometimes when you're caught off guard like that you'll also be caught out of position. Maybe you always play the root with your middle finger to make the scale tones always in the same pattern. In this case you got stuck playing a root with your pinky and suddenly your fretboard looks very foreign to you. This is just a sign that you need to practice your scales from all positions and really learn the notes on the fretboard.

 

Max made a comment not long ago that playing country like this (improvised without ever hearing the song even once before) is quite demanding. He may have more insightful tips.

[Jere-n-Deb]

Thanks for all tips, I am going to throw them all into my food processor & blend them into bass pudding. That way everything works, except for taking the fifth because I always wake up with a really bad headache when a take a fifth, I'm better off with a half pint. Like my wife who is the 5 foot drummer.

 

See how I get lost even in a thread?

[ZZ Thorn]

So to re-nerdify myself, are their any other commonly used walking techniques with actual names, like 'scalar approach', 'dominant approach', etc. This way, when the people I'm playing with what the heck was that they just heard, I can say, 'I was just using the ____ approach". Just curious.

[BargeOn]

So to re-nerdify myself, are their any other commonly used walking techniques with actual names, like 'scalar approach', 'dominant approach', etc. This way, when the people I'm playing with what the heck was that they just heard, I can say, 'I was just using the ____ approach". Just curious.

 

Sorry I can't remember the name but some bright fellow on this forum made a funny remark in a similar thread that has stuck with me:

 

The "raised eyebrow" in which you make eye contact with the other band members to see if everyone agrees that we're on the same page and ready for the next change. If all eyebrows are not raised, and especially if more than one is an outright glare, immediately fall back on any one of the escape mechanisms mentioned here, then raise eyebrows again.

 

One might call this the Supercilious Approach.

[jeremy c]

There are a few names. But no one knows them.

 

Walking lines can be

 

1)chordal (arpeggios)

2)Scalar (notes in the scale)

3)Chromatic (notes between the scale notes which lead to chord notes or other scale notes)

4)A mixture of the above

5)non-root oriented (playing in key as opposed to hitting the changes---this is explained in Ed Friedland's book, Expanding Walking Bass Lines under the heading of "Modal Mapping")

I had a long discussion about this with Ed. I think about this differently than he does but we are both aiming at the same result.

 

 

[...]

5)non-root oriented (playing in key as opposed to hitting the changes---this is explained in Ed Friedland's book, Expanding Walking Bass Lines under the heading of "Modal Mapping")

I had a long discussion about this with Ed. I think about this differently than he does but we are both aiming at the same result.

 

This is something that I am HORRID at and, in my opinion, is the most difficult type of walking line to do well.

[jeremy c]

5)non-root oriented (playing in key as opposed to hitting the changes---this is explained in Ed Friedland's book, Expanding Walking Bass Lines under the heading of "Modal Mapping")

I had a long discussion about this with Ed. I think about this differently than he does but we are both aiming at the same result.

 

This is something that I am HORRID at and, in my opinion, is the most difficult type of walking line to do well.

 

I agree. (Not that you are horrid but that this is the most difficult type of walking line to do well.)

 

It's something I have been working on for a while now. It requires hearing the music and seeing your instrument in a completely different way than we are used to.

 

In the short bursts that I manage it, the feedback I get from the jazz guitarist with whom I play most often is, "that's good...it frees me up and allows me to do more things."

[Eric VB]

5)non-root oriented (playing in key as opposed to hitting the changes---this is explained in Ed Friedland's book, Expanding Walking Bass Lines under the heading of "Modal Mapping")

I had a long discussion about this with Ed. I think about this differently than he does but we are both aiming at the same result.

 

This is something that I am HORRID at and, in my opinion, is the most difficult type of walking line to do well.

 

I agree. (Not that you are horrid but that this is the most difficult type of walking line to do well.)

 

It's something I have been working on for a while now. It requires hearing the music and seeing your instrument in a completely different way than we are used to.

"hitting the changes" = playing root (or other chord tone) on the downbeat? I assume since we're walking we're still playing "four on the floor" quarters and not messing drastically with the rhythm?

 

This completely different way of seeing the bass, could it be related to that mystical thing called "melody"? [Has anyone seen the melody? Where is that confounded melody! ]

[jeremy c]

The kind of non-root we are talking about at the moment involves not hitting the root or other chord tone on the downbeat.

 

Yes, we are still playing quarter notes.

 

This is happening during the solo section when the melody is not being played....chord voicings and soloing all get very fluid at this time, why not our playing too?

 

Everyone has to really, really know where they are in the progression for this to work.

[Big Red 67]

Most of the roots fall on the one. Always move to the root. Sometimes the roots fall other where. For those listen to the melody. I spend allot of my time supporting the melody and not worrying about the roots. That is in my ear and there are times that I can't bring myself to play the roots because they just do not sound right. It makes the guitarist a little crazy sometimes so I play what he wants to hear and let him decide if it sounds good or not. Most of the time he will agree with me. The times he doesn't I can hear that he is right. The point is don't be afraid to ask your band mates. Last if you don't know,... learn theory. It will help you understand why one thing works and another doesn't.

[...]

Everyone has to really, really know where they are in the progression for this to work.

 

Yes. Big time.

[Eric VB]

Everyone has to really, really know where they are in the progression for this to work.

 

Yes. Big time.

+1, but it is fun to watch the look of horror develop on everyone else's faces when they aren't expecting you to stop dropping those Rock of Gibraltar root-on-ones, and you do!

[Paul K]

.....Like my wife who is the 5 foot drummer.

 

Now that's something you don't see every day. Must be hard to buy pants. And shoes. How is the breakdown: three left feet, two right feet? Four right feet, one left foot? I mean, if it where just four feet, two rights and two lefts, then shoes really wouldn't be a problem. But the odd number really screws thing up. Advantage is that polyrythms must be a snap.

 

Pics. Yes, sir. We must see pics of this five footed drummer.

 

Peace

Paul K

[ZZ Thorn]

Thanks. I do a lot of modal mapping. Not on purpose, and it doesn't sound very good, but I manage to do it.