Rhino Madness Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 For those with a lot of experience with Les Paul (the guitars, of course, not the Man), is the heavy weight a requirement to get its traditional tone? Some lighter guitars can have incredible sustain and lower density mahogany is certainly available, yet Les Paul guitars seem to always be on the heavy side: is this necessary? Have you ever played lower-weight LPs with great LP tone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus A. Picker Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 All I know is that after four sets they increase in weight to around four-hundred pounds. http://www.smokedsalmonband.com/exile/exile1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanner Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 you need the weight to maintain the 'heavyosity'. i have a '77 LesPaul Pro and a Epi '56 GoldTop both w/ P90s and while they have VERY similar sounds and output-there is a pureness and body of sound eminating out of the Gibson and i think it has something to do w/ the body weight. i could be wrong and i'll eat a bug and YMMV s AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Madness Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Originally posted by Justus A. Picker: All I know is that after four sets they increase in weight to around four-hundred pounds. That is definitely one of my concerns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Originally posted by Rhino Madness: Originally posted by Justus A. Picker: All I know is that after four sets they increase in weight to around four-hundred pounds. That is definitely one of my concerns! Hay come- ON! you guys! Just think of all the skinny little guys that play LP's all the time! I mean really! how long does anybody play without a break anyway? I play regular bar set gigs all the time with LP's and with a correct width strap there is NO weight issure at all! Yeah they are a little heavy but certainly not heavy enough to ever be a issue. http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Madness Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Originally posted by stanner: you need the weight to maintain the 'heavyosity'. i have a '77 LesPaul Pro and a Epi '56 GoldTop both w/ P90s and while they have VERY similar sounds and output-there is a pureness and body of sound eminating out of the Gibson and i think it has something to do w/ the body weight. i could be wrong and i'll eat a bug and YMMV s That's interesting that you mention the P90's... This past summer, I got to test drive a few Godin w/ P90's and found them all to be very heavyweight. When I met Robert Godin, I asked him if they were all on the heavy side and he told me that was by design. He believes P90 guitars get their ultimate tone with a very rigid and heavy body as long as the neck is not stiff and can vibrate freely (as in mahogany necks but not maple necks). I'm wondering if the Les Pauls are similarly designed to be heavyweight (even with humbuckers and maple necks on many models). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Madness Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Originally posted by ellwood: Originally posted by Rhino Madness: Originally posted by Justus A. Picker: All I know is that after four sets they increase in weight to around four-hundred pounds. That is definitely one of my concerns! Hay come- ON! you guys! Just think of all the skinny little guys that play LP's all the time! I mean really! how long does anybody play without a break anyway? I play regular bar set gigs all the time with LP's and with a correct width strap there is NO weight issure at all! Yeah they are a little heavy but certainly not heavy enough to ever be a issue. Well, I don't want to be a wimp but I was born with TOS (Thoracic Outlet Syndrome) and after ignoring it for so many years, I eventually paid the price and have to watch the weigth I put on my shoulders. That's why I'm wondering if LPs have to be heavy to get their tone. If they do, I might still give it a try and see how my body takes it; otherwise, I can spare the risk and try and find a lighter one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Originally posted by Rhino Madness: Originally posted by ellwood: Originally posted by Rhino Madness: quote:Originally posted by Justus A. Picker: All I know is that after four sets they increase in weight to around four-hundred pounds. That is definitely one of my concerns! Hay come- ON! you guys! Just think of all the skinny little guys that play LP's all the time! I mean really! how long does anybody play without a break anyway? I play regular bar set gigs all the time with LP's and with a correct width strap there is NO weight issure at all! Yeah they are a little heavy but certainly not heavy enough to ever be a issue. Well, I don't want to be a wimp but I was born with TOS (Thoracic Outlet Syndrome) and after ignoring it for so many years, I eventually paid the price and have to watch the weigth I put on my shoulders. That's why I'm wondering if LPs have to be heavy to get their tone. If they do, I might still give it a try and see how my body takes it; otherwise, I can spare the risk and try and find a lighter one... OH! sorry Rhino, well then in your case I guess the LP is not for you. I would think that the width of the strap would be critical to your comfort then. Yes I think the mass of the LesPaul body does add to the overall grit and midrange punch of the LesPaul in general. The completely solid set neck rigidity of the LP makes for a chunky strong one piece unit and I think that translates to it's solid tone. http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Madness Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Originally posted by ellwood: OH! sorry Rhino, well then in your case I guess the LP is not for you. I would think that the width of the strap would be critical to your comfort then. Dang, handicapped or not, I still want great tone!!! Originally posted by ellwood: Yes I think the mass of the LesPaul body does add to the overall grit and midrange punch of the LesPaul in general. The completely solid set neck rigidity of the LP makes for a chunky strong one piece unit and I think that translates to it's solid tone. Maybe I could get one for the studio and only play it sitting down? (I gotta find a way ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarzan Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Originally posted by Rhino Madness: Originally posted by stanner: you need the weight to maintain the 'heavyosity'. i have a '77 LesPaul Pro and a Epi '56 GoldTop both w/ P90s and while they have VERY similar sounds and output-there is a pureness and body of sound eminating out of the Gibson and i think it has something to do w/ the body weight. i could be wrong and i'll eat a bug and YMMV s That's interesting that you mention the P90's... This past summer, I got to test drive a few Godin w/ P90's and found them all to be very heavyweight. When I met Robert Godin, I asked him if they were all on the heavy side and he told me that was by design. He believes P90 guitars get their ultimate tone with a very rigid and heavy body as long as the neck is not stiff and can vibrate freely (as in mahogany necks but not maple necks). I'm wondering if the Les Pauls are similarly designed to be heavyweight (even with humbuckers and maple necks on many models). that is cool that you had to talk to Robert Godin. for what it is worth, my LGsp90 was very heavy and it had lots of beef. it was very ergonomic to play though. great design. i miss mine. i can't comment on weight and LP's. but i recall seeing an ad for a dealer that listed the weight of each LP. it must mean something to mention it. even my GP LP 50 anniversary issue listed the weight of each LP they tested, and the one they were gaga over was the 9.9 lb black beauty. http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=193274 rock it, i will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus A. Picker Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Originally posted by ellwood: Originally posted by Rhino Madness: Originally posted by Justus A. Picker: All I know is that after four sets they increase in weight to around four-hundred pounds. That is definitely one of my concerns! Hay come- ON! you guys! Just think of all the skinny little guys that play LP's all the time! I mean really! how long does anybody play without a break anyway? I play regular bar set gigs all the time with LP's and with a correct width strap there is NO weight issure at all! Yeah they are a little heavy but certainly not heavy enough to ever be a issue. I'm a skinny little guy and after four sets in a bar it's a heavy guitar! 'Course I was even skinnier back in those days, I'm up to a whopping 135 pounds today..... I'm not saying it's not doable, obviously it is, or that it's not worth it tonewise, just that if you play every night you might want to bring a couple of strats along too..... http://www.smokedsalmonband.com/exile/exile1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Madness Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Originally posted by guitarzan: That is cool that you had to talk to Robert Godin. for what it is worth, my LGsp90 was very heavy and it had lots of beef. it was very ergonomic to play though. great design. i miss mine. i can't comment on weight and LP's. but i recall seeing an ad for a dealer that listed the weight of each LP. it must mean something to mention it. even my GP LP 50 anniversary issue listed the weight of each LP they tested, and the one they were gaga over was the 9.9 lb black beauty. I really, really tried to fall in love with the Godin LG SP90 and I tried several examples of it; apparently, it is true that you just can't force love . As many successful company founders, Mr. Godin is the real deal: he still is as genuinely and passionately driven for all things guitars. I got to meet and talk to him on a few occasions over the last couple of years at the Montreal Jazz Festival (the Festival now hosts a Musical Instrument Show where Godin Guitars hold many clinics). I guess it's pretty telling that LP ads feature the exact weight of the guitars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I believe the simple answer is, "yes". There are other ways to get sustain out of an instrument. Parker achieves it through ultra-rigid man-made materials mated to a thin, lightweight piece of tone-wood. But much as I like Parker guitars, I don't know how many people would say they are equivalent to LP's. They do make some traditional bodied instruments, but they're thicker and heavier. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 See if you can find a Smartwood LP, they're a lot lighter than the standard models -- and thus they're not admired by LP fans. Gibson discontinued them due to lack of interest, but they're my favorite LPs. Some are real purty, too, if you like wood grain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Madness Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Yeah, the Smartwood Series are definitely cool guitars! I owned a gorgeous one a few years ago(I was sad when I had to let it go ). They do sound good and are comfortable but alas, this time around, I'm after the traditional LP tone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Madness Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Originally posted by fantasticsound: I believe the simple answer is, "yes". That's what I'm afraid of... Originally posted by fantasticsound: (...) But much as I like Parker guitars, I don't know how many people would say they are equivalent to LP's. (...) Agreed. I haven't tried any Parker lately but those I've heard didn't sound anything like a Les Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdrs Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Rhino, If you can find one (try eBay), check out the Les Paul Elegant. It has a chambered mahogany body, so it's "weight relieved".....Gibson talk for lighter than most Les Pauls! They were custom shop axes, with a compound radius fretboard that is supposed to make them play better. I'm pretty sure they don't make them anymore. They do tend to be a bit pricy....But, I've found them to play and sound fantastic! The Peter Frampton signature LP is similiarly chambered to make it lighter. I've played one, and didn't really like it too much, and still don't understand how to use the third pickup..... Personally, I LOVE heavy Les Pauls, and the heavier the better!! I'd go to your local Guitar shop, and plug in a big fat heavy LP, strap it on, and play it for a while and see how you feel with it on. This is a bit off topic, but I've found that many Les Pauls are "dogs"...meaning they just don't play or sound good. So, play a bunch. You'll find a good one, and it'll let you know right away that IT'S THE ONE!! A good one is a guitar to hold on to. Don "There once was a note, Pure and Easy. Playing so free, like a breath rippling by." http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=574296 http://www.myspace.com/imdrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Madness Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Thanks mdrs, all good advice! It's the first time I hear of the Les Paul Elegant, pretty interesting . I'll try and take my time finding something I can truly use and love ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdrs Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Les Pauls, generally, are expensive. So, I'd play a whole bunch of them, until you find the one that speaks to you. I played them whenever I could for years before I was at a small music store which used to sell Gibson guitars one day years ago. They had a couple in the store, so I played them. One was a honeyburst Classic. It was totally awesome...played great, and the tone was all old Dave Mason...which I just love. I was not really at a stage where I had the money to buy a fancy guitar. So, I went home empty handed. About an hour after getting home, my wife must have seen the pitiful look on my face, and asked me what was the matter. I told her I just played the finest guitar I'd ever touched. She literally sent me back to the store (about a 45 min drive) to buy the guitar! To this day, it's one of my favorites. Don "There once was a note, Pure and Easy. Playing so free, like a breath rippling by." http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=574296 http://www.myspace.com/imdrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 What's really funny is that the classic Les Pauls, up to about '68-'69 were made out of lightweight mahogany. The whole heavier-is-better thing didn't come along till the '70's, when the formula for great guitar tone was mass=sustain, and they started making Les Pauls out of as heavy-weight mahogany as they could find, and adding brass parts to make them heavier. What's even funnier is, now that Gibson is trying to cash in on the vintage market with the whole classic reissue '59 flametop thing, the ones that sell for the most out of the custom shop are the ones that weigh the least. Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Madness Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 That's a great story Don. I'll have to exercise patience... (at least I still got a few other guitars to play in the mean time ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdrs Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Originally posted by Picker: What's really funny is that the classic Les Pauls, up to about '68-'69 were made out of lightweight mahogany. The whole heavier-is-better thing didn't come along till the '70's, when the formula for great guitar tone was mass=sustain, and they started making Les Pauls out of as heavy-weight mahogany as they could find, and adding brass parts to make them heavier. What's even funnier is, now that Gibson is trying to cash in on the vintage market with the whole classic reissue '59 flametop thing, the ones that sell for the most out of the custom shop are the ones that weigh the least. I agree, Picker....the very last thing I'd consider when deciding if I like a LP enough to bring it home is it's weight. I NEVER even think about that. But, of the LP's I've loved enough to bring home (obvious Guitaraholic comment!!), they do tend to be heavy!! The tone, the feel, and the way they play are what I'm after. My favorite LP's seem to play back at me, if you know what I mean. And, the harder I play them, the harder they play back at me. A Les Paul can really take it!! Many other axes can't take it when you play them hard.... Don "There once was a note, Pure and Easy. Playing so free, like a breath rippling by." http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=574296 http://www.myspace.com/imdrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Madness Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 That's an interesting story about the older ones (considered the holy grail of LPs) being ligther ones (although they also might have been all over the place weight-wise if their supplies were as inconsistent for wood as it was for electronics). That would at least indicate that heavy weight was not a pursuit at that point. I'll play 'em as I encounter 'em and see which ones sing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Soldier Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I don't think they have to be heavy, but I do feel the mass is a contrubuting factor to the tone. My Studio is an older one, as far as Studios go, (1992) and although it is weighty I don't find it a problem with a good strap. I did buy a Les Paul Special that is minus the arch top, minus the maple cap and has a contour like a Strat on the back side. IMO it sounds chunkier than the Studio but oddly enough doesn't really feel any lighter although it should. My origional Les Paul had the maple cap but a flat top with mini humbuckers ala the Les Paul Deluxe. Again, seemed just as heavy to me and sounded just as good. I'm of the school, try some out, they're all different. Let your bad back make the decision for you. It might have to fight with your ears and heart though. A.K.A. TRGuitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolead Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I think my '77 Epiphone wins for weight. As I recall, the thing is more than 10 lbs. (Okay, maybe more like 9.5 or so, but I know it's about a pound heavier than a Les Paul.) That's what you get with solid maple. Anyway, having said that, I can't really say if the sound is heavier, simply because the solid maple body makes the guitar very bright to begin with. You'd have to do a side by side with an LP and see which one sounds more dense. Shut up and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Mass, density, and weight are all gonna have an effect on tone. There is a decided difference in tone between an LP made in the 70's, when "It has to be heavy to sustain" was the buzz phrase, and one made in the late '50's when they were made with as light-weight mahogany as they could find. But the classic LP sound, the one that everyone initially lusted after when they heard Mike Bloomfield, Peter Green, and Eric Clapton, was made by lighter weight guitars. Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rw2003 Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 I just stood on the scale w/ my late 70's LP Custom... assuming my math is correct, it weighs 10.5 lbs - including strap. "Spend all day doing nothing But we sure do it well" - Huck Johns from 'Oh Yeah' Click to Listen to Oh yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdrs Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 I'm going to ask a vintage expert friend about this LP weight thing. I seem to remember reading that there have always been LP's made of mahogany, some of which were heavy, and some of which were light. I believe that the weight difference is due to the mineral content of the soil/water where that particular tree grew. I have a '55 all gold with P-90's, and it's HEAVY, and has a MASSIVE baseball bat neck. Oh, and it plays and sounds heavy and massive also!! I'd love to come across some of the old vintage LP's that were light. I have played some old Fenders that were feather weights, and had amazing resonance. Don "There once was a note, Pure and Easy. Playing so free, like a breath rippling by." http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=574296 http://www.myspace.com/imdrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarzan Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 my LG felt heavy and even though a GP review said the LGsp90 was "compact" sounding, mine sure wasn't. it had enormous bottom. and sustain. i always thought that the Honduran Mahogany was the lighter stuff and African Mahogany was the heavy stuff. but i am sure there is alot of variances in each type. there is also the neck to think about and the relationship beteen that and the body. i spend more time checking out the unplugged sound of a guitar for my descision making. i also tap harmonics to see how responsive a guitar is. i will fret a 5th fret d barre and tap the frets 12 frets higher to listen to volume of the notes. when i tried out the LP it rang nice and clear on all the harmonics that i "tapped". last thing i would wonder about would be the weight. maybe weight is a factor, but only one. http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=193274 rock it, i will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newf Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Originally posted by Rhino Madness: Originally posted by ellwood: OH! sorry Rhino, well then in your case I guess the LP is not for you. I would think that the width of the strap would be critical to your comfort then. Dang, handicapped or not, I still want great tone!!! Originally posted by ellwood: Yes I think the mass of the LesPaul body does add to the overall grit and midrange punch of the LesPaul in general. The completely solid set neck rigidity of the LP makes for a chunky strong one piece unit and I think that translates to it's solid tone. Maybe I could get one for the studio and only play it sitting down? (I gotta find a way ). How about trying one with a well designed bass strap (3"+ wide)? Just an idea. Cheers Newf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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