Lyon

Yes, that!!! It freaked me out at first. When I first brought it home, I set the Electro up on the opposite side of the piano bench across from my upright, and did exactly what you describe. On the other hand, our upright has a very heavy action, so it can take a fair amount of force (depending on what you're trying to achieve) to get its keys to behave the way you want them to. Playing percussive lines on that thing, for example, is like hammering nails. In comparison, for *some* things, the Nord feels easier to push around. In a manner of speaking.

Oh, johnchop, I almost forgot re: adjusting my technique: I'm sure some of the things I'm doing with the Electro in organ mode -- like holding down a note with the little finger of my right hand while playing underneath it with the thumb and other fingers of the same hand -- are requiring a bit of an adjustment as well, or maybe just an adjustment period for my muscles/tendons to get used to the different kinds of stretching and strain that probably causes. But in my case, the initial irritation has really calmed down, and I'm no longer concerned about it. That probably helps too: I may simply have been tensing up more than usual out of anxiety. In any case, I'm really comfortable at the keyboard now, and enjoying it without fear of harm. :-)

Yes, sorry, I should have made that clear! I got the 73-key Electro with the waterfall keys. I was definitely tempted by a couple of the 61-models in terms of sound and feel, but I could tell pretty quick that I'd find the loss of those keys to be too limiting for an all-in-one, single-keyboard setup in my particular case (lots of basslines and comping...). Now that I find myself splitting the keyboard so much, whether to simulate two organ manuals or just to use different sounds in the left and right hands, I'm especially glad I went for 73. And I find the crossfade split function on the Nord useful; it gives me a couple of "safe" notes on either side of the split if I want to inch a voicing up a bit or run a solo a little further down the keyboard.

That reminds me: I went into this with tunnel vision, i.e., only really caring about organ and Rhodes. But I love playing the other sounds the Nord has on board, and I have come to rely heavily on the split function. I also really appreciate the way you can control many functions by pushing buttons and spinning dials; I don't mind working with menus, but I have a fondness for simple mechanical interfaces, and this thing really suits me. In general, I'm perpetually impressed at how well designed it is. And I'm so naive a user that whatever it's limitations are, I either don't notice them or don't care. :-)

I went to the one in Middletown, NY, and it was great! The store is huge, but because of the pandemic they had roped off most of it; a steady stream of people stopped by to pick things up and drop them off at the checkout area at the front entrance, but if you wanted to try stuff out deeper inside the store, you had to make an appointment in advance. Mike Hamel, the salesperson who handles keyboards, arranged all of the keyboards I was interested in on stands in their own little area. (I had to special order the VR730 and Vox Continental; the rest were in stock.) He put the YC61 above the YC73, the Crumar above the VC, and the Electro above the Roland. He hooked them all up to some kind of doohickey that let me hear them all through different speakers/monitors, and let me play to my heart's content; but he stayed nearby in case I had any questions or needed an emergency technical intervention. Couldn't have been better. Alto is 1.5 hours from my place, but no store in the city either had all of these keyboards in stock, or was able to assemble them so easily for me with a deposit.

I guess it could be different for different folks, but for me, I've noticed that part of the problem seems to be that I tend to overcompensate for the change in tactile sensation between acoustic pianos and electronic keyboards (whether weighted or semi-weighted) by playing harder and harder. It's almost as if I'm pushing to get a feeling that just isn't going to happen. I used to beat the hell out of my old weighted Roland, for example; and from a sonic perspective, it made no sense at all. But I just kept hitting it harder in a vain attempt to feel something that I couldn't. With the Nord, I think it's different; I might still be overcompensating, but I also didn't understand at first that I could lay way back on this thing and still get a sound out of it without bedding the keys the way I would on a piano. So I'm applying a much lighter touch. I'm also learning (I hope) to let the weight of my arms do more of the work in maintaining the pressure you mentioned when necessary. That's good piano technique in general, but I'm trying to become more intentional about it. Interestingly, after playing the Nord exclusively for a week or two, when I moved back to our upright piano, the key response suddenly felt sluggish and heavy to me. Also interestingly, my wife has been involved in a project to restore a pipe organ, and got to play it a bit last week. She said that it felt just like the Nord to her! In particular, she felt it had exactly the same kind of pushback.

Hello everyone! Way back in January, I posted looking for advice on a new keyboard. My original post had to do with the Roland VR730 vs the Crumar Mojo 61--I was looking for something with semi-weighted keys and nice organ and EP sounds (especially B3 and Rhodes). Lots of people offered lots of great information and advice, and my original list expanded considerably. One month ago, I was finally able to go to Alto Music in upstate NY to try all of them. The keyboards included: Yamaha YC61 and YC73 Korg Vox Continental Crumar Mojo 61 Roland VR730 Nord Electro 6D SW 73 I was really grateful for all the advice I got on the forum, and thought I should post my recollected take on the various keyboards in hopes it might help someone else. A few caveats: --I have played nothing but acoustic piano for years, and before that the only electric keyboard I owned was a Roland F-something with weighted keys I bought in the 90s. I am *sure* this affected the way I responded to the semi-weighted keyboards. (I was set on a SW keyboard for organ playing, but couldn't resist trying the YC73 just because they had one in stock.) --I did not know how to program/manipulate any of these keyboards (see above). I therefore had to rely on the salesperson, who was great, to change the settings for me. --I really only asked said salesperson to help take me through the B3 and Rhodes sounds. This alone took me 2 hours, because I kept moving back and forth between the boards, obsessively trying them again and again. --This was my first time spending more than 10 minutes in any enclosed space in close proximity to another human being since the pandemic began. I had recently been vaccinated, and was beginning to reenter human society. But my anxiety level remained *extremely* high. (Irrational? Sure. But can you blame me?) I am sure that in itself altered my playing experience and judgement. I know it made me play harder and faster than I normally would. OK. Here we go. General impressions: YC 61 and 73: The YC 73 was the first keyboard I tried. Moved away from it almost instantly because, well, it's weighted, and that's not what I was after. But it felt pretty good! The YC61 was the next one I tried. Loved it. Of all these models, I probably liked the YC61 keybed best. It was a joy to play. Liked the organ and Rhodes sounds a lot. Soon realized limitation of 61 keys, however. Vox Continental: This was one of two boards I had to special order. Put my hands on it and walked away almost as fast as I had from the YC73. Just felt too light, if that makes sense. (I'm pretty sure this was my weighted-key bias showing--though I did love the YC61, so who knows?) Also not wild about the organ sound compared to the YC61. Went back to the YC61 and played that some more just to be sure. Crumar Mojo 61: Put my hands on it and couldn't believe my ears. Sounded like something out of a recording. Eerily authentic from the perspective of someone who has never played a Hammond but listens to a lot of Hammond players. Very present Rhodes as well, but realized I wasn't wild about it in its raw state, and that I'd need to use my iPhone as a tricorder to change it. (See above re: Luddite.) Also, like YC61, only 61 keys, and buying lower manual--while incredibly cool--would not completely solve that problem from my perspective. Nord Electro 6D SW 73: Immediately impressed with quality of sounds and feel of keybed; seemed good for organ and Rhodes alike, and its relative firmness and stability appealed to my fingers. At this point, I also knew for sure I wanted more than 61 keys. Roland VR730: Tried this immediately after the Nord. Keybed seemed somewhat toylike in comparison, though upon careful examination they were "sprung" almost exactly the same, with the VR730 just lighter by a hair. (They were so close I had to put one hand on the Nord and the other on the Roland to be certain they didn't have the same tension.) Liked the organ sound, but not as much as the Nord; realized afterwards this could simply have been due to differences in settings, but was too ignorant and panicked (see: pandemic trauma) to recognize this at the time. Can't remember Rhodes sound, which probably says something about my reaction to it at the time. I then went back and forth and back and forth between the YC61, the Crumar and the Nord, eventually just bouncing back and forth between the YC61 and the Nord. I gave the Nord a slight edge in sounds, the YC 61 a slight edge in keybed; my fingers just seemed to fly on that thing. But ultimately, I bought the Nord, in part through process of elimination: Considering my ears, hands, and needs, it seemed to offer the best of what I wanted with the fewest compromises. Also, I had just "found" some money, so it was within my budget. I have now been playing the 6D for a month, and I love it! I have been learning about the organ settings and exploring the other sounds as well. All the EPs sound good to me, and I never get tired of the B3 emulation; one night, I even dreamt that I was playing the organ. For a week or two after my keyboard extravaganza, I was concerned that the same keybed whose firmness I so liked in the store might have been irritating my arms, but most of that turned out to have been due to the crazed session I had at Alto Music, and some of it was down to my needing to alter my playing technique, which is a work in progress. But my arms are doing fine, and I find myself sneaking into the music room in the middle of the night to play this thing! Thanks again to everyone who offered such great info and advice back in January. It was extremely helpful, and I hope this is useful to someone else.

Ha! Well, the OP might be willing to stretch to a Nord Electro 6D if it was head and shoulders above the others in terms of touch and sound. But that's about it, I'm afraid. More expensive (and currently nonexistent?) boards aren't on the menu. :-)

Definitely! It looks like Alto doesn't have any Electros in stock, but I'll see if they can arrange to have one in store so I can compare it to the others. I just "found" some extra money in my budget, so I could conceivably stretch to a Nord if it seemed worth it -- but I'm definitely looking at just 1 board! :-) And I keep reminding myself that my needs are simple: Nice organ and EP sounds, maybe a few additional samples and the ability to split, but nothing terribly complicated. I'm basically a straightahead jazz pianist who loves B3 players (I'm currently going over over all of my Brian Charette and Dr. Lonnie Smith recordings) and got hooked on Rhodes through all those great CTI records (and Hank Jones, of all people), but who has almost no experience with these instruments and is completely out-of-date technologically. So I'm *extremely* naive by the standards of this forum -- which is exactly why I came to you all for help!

Really looking forward to getting my hands on one! I'm OK with spending a bit more on a new piece of gear, especially since I plan to hang onto it for a good long time. And I'm OK spending more on a better action, too; that kind of thing can really drive me nuts, and the whole semi-weighted/waterfall thing will probably take some getting used to anyhow!

Good to know! It'll take a few weeks for these other keyboards to arrive; by then, maybe they'll have a PC4-7 as well. :-) If not, I'm sure one of these others will do me just fine. I have been messing around with 5 octaves on my piano, and I can tell I'd feel boxed in by the Crumar. But I'd like to try it anyhow, just as I'd like to try all of these if possible!

Ah, thanks for all the details re: the Electro vs the others! Time for me to make a spreadsheet, I think...

Re: pitch/mod wheels, I've never really used one, except while messing around with a friend's keyboard. I'm sure I would play around with one if I had it, but definitely not a dealbreaker for me. Really curious to try these all out and see how the actions compare!

Alto Music only takes visitors by appointment these days, so I'm just trying to figure out when to book one. In the meantime, I've been mulling ajstan's suggestion of a Nord 6D. How would the 6D (or the 5D) compare with the other boards in this thread in terms of action, organ, EPs, and ease of use? And would it allow for some of the other things -- splits, use of other kinds of samples (e.g., acoustic bass) -- as the VR-730 and Vox? Perhaps I can line up one of those to try, as well.

Good point! I'll be on the lookout for Vox hype. And hopefully I'll know right quick which one I prefer in terms of touch and sound.

Ha! Well, that puts things in perspective. :-) It also reminds me: I'll see if I can demo both the iLouds and the JBL 305ps while I'm up there! By the way, does anyone have any thoughts on how big/bulky the Vox stand is compared to a standard X-stand, and how difficult it is to fold up or break down? I suppose I'll have the chance to see for myself soon enough, but I have been wondering about that lately, as I survey the cluttered mess that is our studio and move things about in an attempt to clean the damn place... And a very Happy New Year to all! May this one be better than the last...

Well, I found a store called Alto Music that will let me try out the Vox, the VR-730, *and* the Mojo 61 side by side! I just have to put a 20% deposit down on the Vox, since they have to order it from the manufacturer; but as long as I buy one of the keyboards, the deposit will be applied to the sale (otherwise there's a 10% restocking fee). Sounds good to me, since I'm determined to get one of these in the end. Only issue is that the shop is 1.5 hours away -- but frankly, at this point in our pandemic lifestyle, a road trip doesn't sound like a bad idea. Am I nuts to go to all this trouble?!

FYI: I spoke with Guitar Center, and if I get a Gear Card there, I can order both boards; have them delivered to the store and set up onsite; try them out, and return the one I don't want on the spot (or even both, in the unlikely event I'm satisfied with neither). Seems like the way to go!

Nice! I will consult with my studio co-habitant and see what makes the most sense in terms of space and clutter. :-)

I'll be using these in a music studio crammed with stuff: a piano, my wife's 5-octave marimba and assorted drums (she's a percussionist), file cabinets and storage bins stuffed with sheet music...so I'll either have to put them on the floor; rest them on the marimba, the acoustic piano, or the new keyboard; or find little stands or platforms for them (we have heavy music stands aplenty). Do you think that would work for the JBLs, or would it make more sense to go for the iLouds due to simpler placement?

That's good to know. And I just re-read AnotherScott's comment that the B3 on the Vox would still be a significant step up from the SV1 I tried. I would like to go for 73 keys, and it seems likely to me that the difference in organ sound quality between the Crumar and the Vox (or the VR-730) wouldn't matter to me in the long run, since I'm really just an organ enthusiast rather than an expert. :-) By that same token, maybe the difference in the ability to tweak the organ sound between the Vox and VR-730 wouldn't matter to me either. If I can hit a button and adjust a couple of sliders to get a sound I like, that should do the trick.

Glad I asked! The JBLs look cheaper, too. Saw some comments regarding hiss; is that really an issue? Would you only notice it when "idling" (i.e., not actually playing -- a kind of ambient thing)? Great suggestion re: ordering both. I'm going to look into that! I go to Manhattan for better display model selection, but here where I live in Queens there are branches of Sam Ash and Guitar Center where I imagine I could return stuff.

By the way, any suggestions for monitors ($300 or less) that would good for my 13x13 home studio, playing either the Vox or the VR-730 solo or with an acoustic instrument or two? A salesperson at Sam Ash suggested a pair of IK Multimedia iLoud Micro Monitors. Someone at Sweetwater recommended a bunch of mono PA systems, but I'm assuming stereo would be best, no?

Thanks so much for this! I had seen references to the Numa and was originally intrigued by it because of the built-in speakers (I had initially hoped to avoid buying monitors), but couldn't try one and certainly would never have figured out all these nuances on my own. Since I'm in part aiming for simplicity, it seems like the Vox or VR-730 are still my best bets for self-contained units that can do everything I'd like with minimal fuss. This would be much easier if I could actually lay my hands on both of them--I'm sure I'd know right away which one I'd prefer--but I certainly have all the info I need to make a decision, if I can just bring myself to choose one over the other. :-)

What a great chart! How does that Numa Compact 2X compare in terms of organ and EP sounds?