AROIOS
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Posts posted by AROIOS
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Scandals aside, the arrangements of Milli Vanilli tunes are miles ahead of the "ee-ee-aa-aa, woh-oh-woh-oh" garbage around us today
Truly did not expect the end result here to be the mounting of a defense placing Milli Vanilli 'miles ahead' of today"s 'garbage' music! I agree these conversations do have that ring of dinner table politics - older folks telling younger folks how it is without any real idea about the current scene. If anyone would like to take a constructive approach and learn about all the great music out there these days (and great Vanilli-esque schlock! Schlock can be great and meaningful to people, too!), then I"m sure there are plenty of folks here happy to oblige with some links, myself included.
Excellent suggestion. I don't particularly care for Milli Vanilli tunes, but a quick glance at their Youtube channel turns up something perfectly listenable:
[video:youtube]
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My favorite is 3.
SV1
5,6,7 and 12,13,14 are my least favorite ones.You picked exactly every Casio PX5S sample!
With that said. A huge part of the perceived differences are simply a results of EQ curves.Yes, EQ makes a lot of difference, and this is also something that differentiates the boards.
On the Vox, there is no program or sound specific user-adjustable EQ (just a global EQ). There are some other Rhodes sounds in it that have different EQ from the four Vox samples I included here, but those other Rhodes sounds also have some other effect baked in (say, tremolo), which means you can't play the sound with that EQ without also having that effect. So while I think the Vox is a strong Rhodes, you have very limited ability to tweak it to taste.
The SV1 has better EQ facilities... each sound has available 3-band EQ, and the mid is sweepable via the editor.
The PX-5S goes that one better... the frequencies of all 3 bands are sweepable.
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Excellent info, thanks for compiling/sharing them AnotherScott.
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Ok, I need to stop wasting time in the rabbit hole of arguing over opinions before another round of back-and-forth starts.
These kind of discussions remind me of dinner table arguments over politics and religions. Come to think of it, nothing constructive had ever come out of those.
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The weirdest part of this thread is that anybody chose 'the last 25 years' as the timeframe to mark the decline of pop music. As a younger guy, it"s just a bizarre hill to die on. I was cracking up googling the Billboard Top 100s from '25 years ago.' Yeah, the inherent musicality of pop music has really gone down hill since 'Every Rose Has It"s Thorn' hit number 3 on the charts. Of course, the true origin of The Great Musicianship Decline in Pop Music is after they gave Milli Vanilli that Grammy in '89. Now those guys knew their tritones!
I love your sarcasm and understand where you are coming from regarding "Every Rose" and Milli Vanilli. To think it through though, it's not much different from Michachel Bolton bashing. Or for that matter, how Doobie Brothers and Jefferson Airplane fans hated these bands' new incarnations.
Most casual listeners are conformists. And it's very convenient and comforting to bash a band/artist when everyone else is doing so.
But I don't expect the same from musicians. For a musician, it should be obvious that "Every Rose" is not any worse than "Knocking on Heaven's Door" when we strip out the lyrics.
Scandals aside, the arrangements of Milli Vanilli tunes are miles ahead of the "ee-ee-aa-aa, woh-oh-woh-oh" garbage around us today.
If those are the best examples you can come up with, you've just proven my point.
Oh, and you missed the word "statistically" in my ranting. Having 15 bad songs in Top 40 in 1990 is not the same as having 30 bad songs in it in 2015.
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I'll chime in.....
Those young people don't find a conflict between Cory Henry and Lay Lay:
Speaking of Lay Lay, she should to an autotune version of this to a hip hop beat.
I'd be perfect.
Ok, I jumped on the idea and made a quick Jazz Hop demo version of what I would enjoy listening to:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18mgG_wi1675g0Se3Euk-wsdb0TYkf4KX/view
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I'll chime in.....
Those young people don't find a conflict between Cory Henry and Lay Lay:
Speaking of Lay Lay, she should to an autotune version of this to a hip hop beat.
I'd be perfect.
[video:youtube]
LOL Just for the record, I did not post Lay Lay as an example of good or bad music.
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There are plenty of things in this world to lament. Musical expression isn't one of them. We should celebrate the variety even if our ears are crying. I haven't even got to EDM
Thanks for being a good sport, uhoh7. And NO, don't get me started on EDM!
Joking aside, genres don't necessarily define the quality of music labeled under them. The "sound" we associate with a genre is often just a cliche created by musicians following/imitating the trend setters.
I first had that revelation 17 years ago. In the 90's, I hated Trance and considered it the idiotic cousin of House. That was until I played some Cheryl Lynn chord progressions on a Trance combi preset from Korg TRITON.
Boy did it sound good.
At that moment I realized I don't hate Trance, at least not for its defining rhythm and sounds, I was just extremely bored by the anemic harmony on most Trance tracks I encountered.
So chances are, throw some nice chords on top of an otherwise ear-grinding EDM beat, and we'll get something tasteful in return.
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If you're up for it... Here's a ~16 minute test of 14 different Rhodes sounds... in this case, from the Korg SV1, Vox Continental, and Casio PX5S, which are among my favorite EP boards.
Thanks for putting this together. My favorite is 3.
5,6,7 and 12,13,14 are my least favorite ones.
With that said. A huge part of the perceived differences are simply a results of EQ curves.
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I was about to ask if anyone else found it ironic that a thread about Gospel/sacred music was becoming acrimonious...
Thus, glad to see it come to reconciliation/resolution ......... the spirit of Gospel would approve
Agreed! I apologize to ARIOS for being unreasonably harsh. I have seen the light.
roygBiv, thanks for pointing out the irony.
JazzPiano88, thanks for extending the olive branch and I'm sorry for adding fuel to the unnecessary fire earlier.
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AROIOS, no one is saying you can't have the opinion that you have. It's actually a pretty commonly expressed one. Rather, it's the proclamation that unless someone agrees with you, they are banned from engaging with either you or your ideas, that rankles. This is a DISCUSSION board, with some pretty well-tuned listeners, thinkers, and players. If you can't handle a little bit of engagement with the ideas you proclaim, you might want to rethink the angle of any threads you start. "Post your best examples of modern gospel" would garner a different kind of response than, "...instead of that crappy music you listen to and don't know any better than to like."
In other words, if your skin is thin, it's best not to choose darts as your weapon of choice...
That's fair and constructive, MathOfInsects.
We should have known better than to argue over personal opinions instead of hard facts.
I apologize for my harsh tone in response to your post earlier.
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I dunno why we're getting hung up on what's on the charts.
Because they play a huge part in shaping the taste of most casual listeners.
Pretty sure they played a much larger part in that during the era you yearn for.
I gotta say, I just find your pessimistic outlook on modern music tiring. Must be hard to be so jaded all the time.
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Actually reading through the next page, and sometimes it's more funny than tiring. Very bizarre to see things as so black and white. What record broke the beautiful industry we had up until the 90s? Which industry exec or label woke up and decided to poison the well? How do you take yourself so seriously?
You can it pessimistic, I call it realistic. So we'll simply have to agree to disagree.
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To keep this discussion on point, I'll simply paste this again: "If we can't agree on the overall deterioration of quality of Pop music in the last 25 years, further discussion would be meaningless."
When I was in 7th grade (1976), my disgusted Music teacher in middle school told our class that "Music was over" and that the future of music was Disco. And we might as well accept it and get used to it.
I think he was taking out his frustration on us with hyperbole but it stuck in my mind to this day.
My point being, don't BS us with some crap about your perception of music quality when some of the best music has come out pre and post your's and mine's arbitrary timelines.
If you can't deal with it, then you need to fix yourself, and not try to impose your measures of "music quality" on the rest of us as a condition of further debate.
I did not and could not care less about "imposing" anything on you, not do I give a crap about your BS perception of music quality.
If you can't deal with my opinion in my post, then you need to fix yourself and simply leave this post and start your own thread.
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Actually yes, there was a "musical overlord" who blessed Pop between the 70's and 90's. That "overload" is the collective of brilliant session musicians, arrangers, producers, record labels and radio channels that hadn't yet totally sold out. Pop in the last 25 years has been chasing to the bottom because of earnings pressure from Wall Street and Private Equity.
And yet, as positively as you feel about the music of the 70's-90s, that is exactly how much the generations who came before you hated it. Even the very best song from that span was someone else's crap. So how can the quality live in the music? It clearly lives in the generation of listeners that music was created by and for.
There were session musicians long before your music-listening prime, as there have been in the 30 years hence. There was earnings pressure before and after your prime. The entire recorded-music industry has never not been a for-profit venture; in fact, it was birthed as a means of selling sheet music.
The only difference between the music of the people who thought yours was crap, and the music you now think is crap, is the age of the people doing the crap-designating.
It's natural.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
I'm fully aware of the generational gaps on musical preferences, especially for the casual listeners. That's why I responded to SamuelBLupowitz earlier: "Boomers and GenX weren't born with better taste than the younger guys, they were just lucky enough to have a music industry that hadn't been commercialized to the point of suffocation."
To keep this discussion on point, I'll simply paste this again: "If we can't agree on the overall deterioration of quality of Pop music in the last 25 years, further discussion would be meaningless."
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I shouldn't love this song. But I do. Played it in a band in high school.
Not to mention love the inverted bass figures.
[video:youtube]
By the same token, I shouldn't love those Michael Bolton and Kenny G tunes on my playlist.
Classic Rock is an excellent point of self-reflection when I try to analyze/rationalize my musical preference, which could roughly be described as a reasonable level of sophistication in harmony and rhythm. So Impressionism/Jazz/Gospel harmony and Afro-Cuban rhythms fit the bill well naturally.
But Classic Rock seems to sit at the opposite side of that picture. As you said, I "shouldn't" love classic rock, if only based on my own criterion above.
But I do. and that contradiction offers me some empathy towards music I consider "garbage".
Hard pushed to justify/rationalize this "irrationality", I might say that Rock as a genre is like battle hymns that call to our wild inner self.
With that said, there's no music we should feel guilty/wrong about listening to, unless we're blasting it at others who don't share the same fondness.
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Oh yeah, the video..I liked it and the sounds created alot, cool guy to invite into you living room too. My only criticism is that the chords flash on the screen too quickly, IMO it would be better with them in a sequence with the current one highlighted, similar to iReal book.
Glad you enjoyed the video, pinkfloydcramer. You can play the video back at a slower speed on Youtube or download it and play it with your favorite media player at any speed. Those software generated chord names are based on pattern matching and may not reflect the true functional nature of the chords, so I usually take them with a grain of salt.
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That's not statistically true, and it's a cop-out.
Compare the Top 40 charts of any of the last 10 years to the same charts between 1975~1995 and tell me "Every generation has the same proportion of cream and crap." again, with a straight face.
Do you see what happened here though? You started out saying something about statistics, but then you relied solely on the self-confirming measure of your own opinion to support it.
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But I hope we can all agree that the only thing actually special about the music we grew up loving, was solely that it was the music we grew up loving, not that some mystical hand of a musical overlord blessed our particular 15 years of musical prime, with something no one else has ever had.
As I've mentioned in my response to uhoh7, as subjective as musical preferences and tastes are, to equate that with "every piece of music is as good as another" is a fallacy.
If we can't agree on the overall deterioration of quality of Pop music in the last 25 years, further discussion would be meaningless. So let's stop here before wasting any more of each other's time.
"not that some mystical hand of a musical overlord blessed our particular 15 years of musical prime, with something no one else has ever had."
Actually yes, there was a "musical overlord" who blessed Pop between the 70's and 90's. That "overload" is the collective of brilliant session musicians, arrangers, producers, record labels and radio channels that hadn't yet totally sold out. Pop in the last 25 years has been chasing to the bottom because of earnings pressure from Wall Street and Private Equity.
Again, you might not feel that way and don't cover your ears when you hear brain-dead garbage in a store. God bless you if that's the case, I'm glad you are immune to musical stupidity of Pop as it is today.
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I dunno why we're getting hung up on what's on the charts.
Because they play a huge part in shaping the taste of most casual listeners.
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You're not "objecting" what I said at all. We are saying mostly the same thing. You just put it in a different way.
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Every generation has the same proportion of cream and crap.
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That's not statistically true, and it's a cop-out.
Compare the Top 40 charts of any of the last 10 years to the same charts between 1975~1995 and tell me "Every generation has the same proportion of cream and crap." again, with a straight face.
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Those young people don't find a conflict between Cory Henry and Lay Lay:
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These Lay Lay songs (if we call them that. I'd use the word "trash") put everything wrong with the "nurture" (or rather, the lack thereof) part of Millenials' and GenZs' musical taste on full display.
As much as I dislike the Purist attitude of some Jazz musicians/critics like Wynton, and despite the fact that musical preference IS a highly subjective matter, to compare garbage like these to Cory Henry's work is an insult to the ingenuity and sophistication of Soul music and human intelligence.
What's next? Shall we declare that Britney Spears' music is as beautiful as Debussy's or Bill Evans' best work? After all, it's just "subjective preferences", isn't it?
Btw, I have nothing against Rap/Hip-hop as a genre, The Sugarhill Gang, 2Pac, The Roots, J. Dilla, among many other HipHop artists, have excellent taste and are excellent musicians.
These songs you just posted though, they are pure garbage.
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Since there's already some spirited debate in this thread, I'm going to object to this line of thought and point out that the Millennials and Gen Z gave us Snarky Puppy, Turkuaz, Vulfpeck, Jacob Collier, and surely a host of other musically mind-blowing artists who don't immediately come to mind, despite the Boomers and Gen X establishing radio conglomerates that would never play them. The enemies of musicians and art are the same, not confined to a single generation, and are responsible for, rather than the result of, cultural deficiencies. :wink:Backing up preachers is an Art in itself and i always look with envy! These guys are born into this tradition, even the way they change chords under the voice is unique. Thanx for sharingGlad you enjoyed it Yannis. Given how bad Pop music has become over the last 25 years and how tone-deaf it had made the millenials and GenZ, I'm grateful for the musical standard Gospel folks managed to maintain.
You're not "objecting" what I said at all. We are saying mostly the same thing. You just put it in a different way.
Being tone-deaf is not the Millennials and GenZ's fault. For most casual listeners, taste is much more of a result of "nurture" than "nature". Boomers and GenX weren't born with better taste than the younger guys, they were just lucky enough to have a music industry that hadn't been commercialized to the point of suffocation.
You used musicians, brilliant musicians, to argue about a generation's musical taste. That's not statistically representative at all. Having one Nazi officer who plotted to assasinate Hitler doesn't mean the vast majority of party weren't delirious.
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Problem is with this genre is you have to live in this world and I have found they weren't guys that liked to share. Same with playing Caribbean music. You have to search it out and teach yourself at some point.
I was complaining about the exact issue you had brought up, in another post earlier: https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3067080/sorely-lacking-of-good-keyboard-courses#Post3067080
Besides the many valuable inputs from our forum members in that post, Gospelmusicians.com and Hearandplay.com are two excellent sources of Gospel learning materials.
I've also noticed that with the growth of Youtube over the last 10 year, lots of Gospel cats have share their secret sauce online. The amount of Gospel education we can get from free Youtube videos is something I could only dream of 15 years ago.
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The roots of the COGIC church are very interesting and few are aware of the huge influence of William Seymour on 20th century Christianity:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azusa_Street_Revival
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Thank you for enlightening us on the beautiful history of COGIC music, uhoh7. I've been a fan of The Clark Sisters but didn't know about their family musical heritage that dates back to the Civil Rights movement.
The Eddie Brown lesson is awesome too, thanks for sharing it!
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They always get away with inefficient fingering. Mostly the firth finger.
Which finger is firth?
This finger, obviously.
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Thanks for sharing. Love it!
My pleasure, KeyMoe.
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Just saw that you have already discovered Scott Tibbs. Ditto on your recommendation of Luke and the Muzykuj bro, and thanks for helping me discover Stu and Rudi!
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There are a lot: Katsunori UJIIE (MusictrackJP), Tiago Mallen, Thiago Gomes, Mike Pensini, Jacob Dupre (Sweetwater)...
NORD hires a lot of great players to demo their products too: Cory Henry, OndÅej Pivec, Joel Lyssarides, Mike Bereal
Scott Tibbs and Scott Wilkie from Roland are great. Yamaha also hires some great players like Jonas Gröning, Peter Baartmans, Stefan Jernståhl.
It might be a bit counter-intuitive but watching those hired cats demo a piece of equipment can be "deceiving". Their techniques and touch often hides the flaws of an instrument. Well, that's part of what they are paid to do.
What I realized is, if a mediocre player can sound good on a keyboard, chances are it's sampled and programmed well.
Just When You Thought Major Scale Is Boring...
in The Keyboard Corner
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Jonny is an awesome instructor. The runs he demonstrated in this video are useful for a lot of occasions. I can already see myself applying these in Bill Evans and Keith Jarrett tunes.
[video:youtube]