GianfrixMG
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Posts posted by GianfrixMG
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The best thing is a recent discovery of mine, that I actually haven't seen discussed (except in a thread I started at yamahasynth)... you can create/save Performances (user presets) that consist of nothing but an external sound, and since the basic architecture is such that you can import the contents of one Performance into another, that means that, for example, any time you want to add your "better Hammond" VST sound to a MODX Performance, you can add that Part just the way you would add a Part if it were an internal sound ("category search," locate sound by name, click on it). IOW, you can build up a library of external sounds which will appear as selectable named sounds on the screen, indistinguishable from internal sounds, so the external sounds really become an extension of the MODX library of sounds.
Oh, that's a nice feature! It's basically what I wanted to do on the MOXF8 with the tablet. This way I would not take performance parts for external sounds and I would have basically unlimited storage to save these external/internal layers and splits.
It would be perfect if an insert effects could be applied to a part that uses external sounds via a single USB cable, but AFAIK it's only possible to apply effects if I used the A/D input, right?
On the MOXF, if you have a Performance (or Mix) to which you'd like to add an external sound, you copy it into a Master Mode location, and need to specify the external sound parameters from scratch (e.g. the MIDI channel and Program Change numbers that will bring up that sound). It's a lot more button presses, a lot more menu navigation, and a bunch of memorization or paper charts so that you'd know the Program Change numbers for all the external sounds you might want to use more than once. (Unless maybe there was some MOXF shortcut for this I don't know about.)
Wouldn't I need to send a program change of some sort to the external sound module from the MODX too? Otherwise how would I choose what VST to play?
Another difference is that a MODX Performance can include up to 8 external sounds, a MOXF Master can include only up to 4 external sounds. (OTOH, the MOXF allows you to play up to 16 total parts from the keyboard at once, the MODX only permits up to 8.)
Yeah, the MOXF allows up to 16 parts at the same time in Song mode, but up to 8 parts can have dual insert effects enabled.
The other advantage I can think of is that the MODX has sliders for controlling 8 sounds simultaneously (4 sliders, quickly switchable between 1-4 and 5-8). They will normally control the volumes of your 8 keyboard-playable parts, each of which can be either an internal or external sound.* So once you create your MODX Performance, you have instant access to real-time volume controls for each sound, regardless of its source. Whereas the ability to assign the knobs on the MOXF (which has no sliders) to control the volumes of some desired combination of internal and external parts is more complicated, and especially so if you are attempting to split/layer a total or more than 4 sounds (in any internal/external combination). (I'm not even 100% sure you CAN use the 8 knobs to control the volumes of 8 parts, but I think you can.) Related: If you're using MODX sliders for volumes, you still have the knobs simultaneously available for other manipulations. If you're using MOXF knobs as volume controls, they're not simultaneously available to do something else.
Yeah, I don't actually like the knobs configuration on the MOXF8 too much. I would end up adding something like a Korg NanoKontrol or just use something like TouchOSC. There are also some Yamaha apps for that on the iOS App Store so it's definetely possible.
My subjective experience based on the 2x is that the Numa Compact 2x keys initially feel better than MODX7 keys, but they play worse. The Numa keys do feel more "substantial" but, as you say, the velocity control (on pianos) is lacking (which I suspect is more a matter of lame velocity mapping than in the inherent behavior of the action**). MODX7 velocity control on its piano sounds is lacking as well, but there is enough fine control available that you can largely fix it, whereas Numa does not give you those controls (only a few coarse options, none of which are likely to be what you really want). Also, the MODX keys feel more even from front to back than the Numa keys do, and don't push back as much. But OTOH, there's no getting around that, physically, the MODX keys are very light, and it's never going to give you something like the hammer feel you liked when you played the MOXF8.** footnote for above: Something I never tried was using the Numa to trigger an external piano VST... I suspect that they would play better, or if not, that at least there would be sufficient velocity adjustments so you could get them to play better.
Yeah, I remember trying to fix the internal curves using mididings (basically setting a curve shaped like this and setting an offset for the black keys) and only then it got a bit better, but it ended up glitching some sound changes when I used the wheel.
BTW my mind wants weighted keys for the better dynamic response, but I'm also tempted by the portability of the MODX7, although I don't have a band at all right now and I don't need to move the keyboard a lot.
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You've pretty much hit the main usage differences--the key action is very different and the OS is very different. I'm not totally a believer in touch screens as I worry they won't last as long, but I find the Modx7 very easy and intuitive to use. The Moxf8 from my brief times with it reminded me a lot of my old Motif, you do a lot more scrolling old-school fashion.
If I got the MOXF8 I would probably end up creating a GUI to control both internal sounds via sysex and external VSTs, making the tablet "the brain" and using the MOXF8 more like a master keyboard with an integrated audio interface.
If I got a MODX I would have less of a need for it though.
They both sound good to me, with the Modx7 having the additional FM engine.I would lose the FM engine but I could compensate with something like Dexed.
the Modx seems a bit more flexible as a master controller if you want to mix and match zones coming from the ipad with internal sounds.What does the MODX have more than the MOXF in this regard? AFAIK on both of them I could passthrough the audio via USB or use the A/D input and apply some FX.
In my case, I decided to keep the Modx7 as a gigging keyboard simply because it's way smaller and more convenient. I haven't decided yet whether I'll keep the Moxf8 as a controller for my VSTs at home...the action isn't my favorite but it's also not bad IMO. I like it far more than my buddy's old Krome88 by way of comparison, and I like it less than some others I've tried (MP11, Nord Pianos, my old studiologic with a fatar tp-40 action). I think action is something you can adjust to but obviously there are quality differences. Playing piano on the Modx7 is a bit of an adventure, the keys are extremely light-weight and it can be hard to have any controls. Adjusting the velocity (AnotherScott has posted his own settings in the past) can help. For synth use, the action is ok on the Modx7 but of course no aftertouch. My Kurzweil pc361, retired due to an ailing screen, is better to play IMO. However, for organ playing, the Modx7 is actually pretty good, as the light keys lend themselves pretty well for a non-waterfall action. In fact, that will be how I'm using my ipad with it--to run the B-3x organ app.
I liked the action on my Numa Compact 2 in terms of feeling and weight, but I felt like I didn't have much control on the velocity, which varied too much especially between the black keys and the white keys. The PC361 has the same action, albeit "synth-style" and not "piano-style". With lockdowns here it's impossible for me to try before buying, thus I worry that I would have similar problems on the MODX7. I don't expect to play classical pieces on it but I expect for velocities to be consistent. I also tried a MOXF8 for a bit and I quite liked the action. It felt much more manageable than a TP100 I tried on a SL88 a while ago
I also worry about learning bad techniques by starting to play again on a semi-weighted board, which is also part of the reason why I sold my NC2, but if there are things like effects or sounds I would miss on the MOXF8 I may think about accepting the compromise. In the end I want something to play on and unwind after a long day at work!
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Hello everyone!
This is kinda the same general decision I was facing in my previous topic, but the topic isn't valid anymore, as I sold my NC2 many months ago
For a TLDR, my requirements are the following:
- Price under 1000 (if possible)
- Audio over USB
- 76 keys minimum
- Good sound editing capabilities
- Expandability to load custom multisamples or one-shot samples
After a long search the finalists are the MOXF8, the MODX7 and the MODX8. The main problem is that I can't make up my mind on where to put my priorities. I love the range on the MOXF8 and the fact it's weighted but I love the UI on the MODX series.
I have a lead on a reasonably priced used MOXF8, whose price is quite close to an used MODX7 I found. Spending a little more than I would prefer I could get a new MOXF8 + Flash, but at the same price I found a used MODX8. So, as you can see, I'm tempted from all sides: I could get a MODX7 but lose weighted keys, I could get a MOXF8 but get something outdated or I could get a MODX8 but spend too much on something I would use just for a hobby
I should also mention that I'm planning to use a small tablet to use other VSTs (i.e. a better Hammond) and to use something like Camelot Pro to better manage sound switching.
What would you do in my shoes?
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How"s the build quality on the compact 2/2x? The weight really appeals and at 7kg it"s not going to be built like a tank but does the shell twist or creak? I had a Studiologic (or maybe Fatar) 61 key controller years and years ago and although it was feather light the shell wasn"t particularly rigid.
Not the best nor the worst. The build is quite solid but it bends a little bit under pressure.
It may twist a little bit because it's such a compact and long plastic build of course.
My guess is that the base chassis is pretty much similar to the old VMK88 series.
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Hello everyone!
Does anyone know if it's possible to edit what voices a song has on a MOX or MOXF using a PC connected via USB? I was considering buying one if I could use a small form factor PC to create some "combis" and use songs as voice "buffers". I could also have a bit of smooth sound transitions by loading up to 8 voices per combi (8 for one, 8 to preload the next).
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GianfrixMG thank you very much for the suggestion. The Numa Compact 2 is very very nice! The 2+ is a bit over my budget limit, but the NC2 could be an interesting solution. Do you know if the commands (knobs, joysticks and buttons) can be mapped in a DAW (i.e. MainStage)?
Most of them does. Check the MIDI implementation chart out. I didn't try it personally but AFAIK the FX1, FX2, and Reverb knobs and Select buttons all send MIDI.
Of course the joysticks both send MIDI, but the first one sends the same CC value for pitch on both axis. If I ended up keeping it, a mod I always wanted to try was to make one of the axis send a different CC value (e.g. modulation) just like the SL88 Studio does. I tried both keyboards and I can tell you the joysticks are identical for both of the keyboards. You can see in
that the joystick's PCB is connected via wires to the main PCB. If the CC conversion is handled externally it may be possible to place something like an Arduino in the middle and try to achieve this goal. -
AFAIK semiweighted keys are always going to be a bit shorter than piano keys (typically 14 cm / 5.5 inches).
That's one of the nice things about the Fatar TP8 (e.g. Kurzweil Artis 7), the semi-weighted keys are full-length, the same 5.75" or so you'd see on a hammer action board.
If I'm not wrong they are a tad shorter than standard piano keys, but they have a longer pivot than the TP9, so I guess they are more even front to back. Unfortunately there are no budget keyboards equipped with that keybed!
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In the meantime, I will probably buy a 88 or 61 Master Keyboard with knobs and faders to replace/back up the M-Audio.
I've seen some of them today:
Arturia keylab 88 essential: good keybed (keys are a bit smaller than piano but semi-weighted), robust knobs and faders.
Akai professional MPK 261: overall good impression - keys are semi-weighted, lots of physical controls
Novation impulse 61: good but not as the other two (didn't like the feel of keys, they seemed a bit springy)
Any of you own or have tried one of these three keyboards?
AFAIK semiweighted keys are always going to be a bit shorter than piano keys (typically 14 cm / 5.5 inches). The KeyLab 88 Essential has been compared to the M-Audio Keystation 88 in terms of key feel.
I'd recommend you the Numa Compact 2 or 2x. I had the NC2 and the keys feel good, albeit they are not hinged too far and may be harder to play on top; build quality is not exceptional though (feels a little bit cheap but still quite solid). A big plus is the presence of an internal audio interface (so one less thing to carry around!) and some good internal sounds. The NC2x costs a bit more but has sliders and more sound engines. The other knobs (except volume and eq) can also send MIDI to the PC on both of the versions.
Also check this video out, where they compare the KeyLab 88 Essential to the Numa Compact 2
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If I were in your place I would save a little longer and just get the MODX-8. It's really the only board I can see that covers what you actually want that isn't over $2,000.
Yeah, right now it's my best shot, but I would be happier to spend less than 1000 . I saw a posting around that price for a MODX8 that is now unfortunately gone! Oh well...
One thing I noticed is that if the MODX8 was a few centimeters shorter it would also fit perfectly without any tilting through the trunk of my car with one back seat down.
One thing I forgot to mention is that the weight should be less than 15kg because I may move it around sometime.
The PC4 has come down a bit in price at Thomann - £1358 at the moment.Here in Italy it costs 1859 . Almost 300 more than that price converted in Euros
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Hello everyone!
A little backstory: I wanted to start playing keyboards again after a long time. I actually grew up to really like workstation keyboards, but I didn't feel like spending that much money for something like a Kronos 88 when I'm just starting out again.
Hello,
I think we need to know what functions you really need from an instrument you want to buy. If you know workstations you surely know what they can do.
Well, mainly I don't want to buy something that would be limiting in the near future and then sell it shortly after (btw in December I ended up selling the Numa Compact 2). For these reason I am excluding digital pianos from the choices.
First of all I would like for the keybed to be weighted, in order to have a better degree of dynamics control and to better build the muscles inside the fingers, but not with a feel that made it difficult to play things other than the piano.
I want the keyboard to have good sounds and a good degree of editing, because I like the idea of tweaking sounds. I would also love having knobs, faders and more than one pedal input.
Of course the keyboard would end up being obsolete one day, so expandability is a big plus, thus keyboards with an USB audio interface built in would enable me to fit something like a NUC in the case and run VSTs easily using only one extra cable.
I'd also like to learn how to play songs switching multiple sounds back to back. In this case something like smooth sound transitions would be a big plus. Also, using the NUC as in the previous point would enable me to better manage setlist with something like Camelot Pro or something custom.
These are the main features I would like to have. I think I may compromise on the number of keys (minimum 73/76) and on the weighted feel. Maybe a good semi-weighted action is better than a crappy weighted action. By the way I enjoyed the feel of the Fatar TP9/Piano in the NC2, even if it has a very short pivot. Unfortunately only Nord and Kurzweil use the Fatar TP8 keybed, which has a longer pivot and supposedly a more uniform feel from the front to the back of the keys. I'm quite indifferent towards aftertouch.
If I have to compromise on the features, then the USB audio interface is a must have; I don't really have a problem in using a PC live and I'm well covered regarding software and making it all stable. In the beginning I was also considering to buy a master keyboard and go all in on the soft-synth route. That would make me flexible as hell, but it's a long journey until I develop ad-hoc software the way I see it. Here the choices are easier: SL88 Studio (although its keybed falls on the heavier and noisier side), the ubiquitous NC2 or the Arturia KeyLab 88 (both MK2 or Essential).
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Someone is selling a MODX8 on this forum!
I guess it's not feasible. Most of you are in the USA while I'm in Europe lol
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I've been away for a while! Sorry about that!
I'm still researching keyboards and right now the most complete option is still a MODX8. The only thing keeping me from buying it is the cost. I may save a bit with a MODX7 but I'd lose hammer action keys, albeit those semi-weighted keys apparently have a longer pivot than the Fatar TP9 Piano.
I've also looked at a local used MOXF8, but I feel like the interface is dated, there's less flexibility for live usage and there are no sliders.
I'd scrap the RD-88 because it's not class compliant and I was counting on expanding with a Linux based mini pc if needed by using a single cable (so USB Class Compliant MIDI/Audio is a thing I'd like to use). The PC4 is nice but costs too much here!
Are there less expensive options or should I just turn to the used market?
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Hello everyone!
A little backstory: I wanted to start playing keyboards again after a long time. I actually grew up to really like workstation keyboards, but I didn't feel like spending that much money for something like a Kronos 88 when I'm just starting out again.
After a bit of research I ended up buying a Numa Compact 2. Mainly its ease of expandability drew me in, in order to morph it into a more capable keyboard later on (I was actually thinking on writing a touchscreen friendly UI for a VST host in order to create something like a Zynthian), but its plasticky build and the positioning of the keys' fulcrum that makes them a bit hard to hit them on the top kinda put me off, even if I quite like that the keys themselves don't feel cheap at all. For these reasons I'm considering selling it and buying something else.
The closest alternative that wouldn't cost a lot I think is the MODX8, which still is a bit beyond what I would spend for a new keyboard but it's still a bit expandable. I really don't know how would I feel about falling back to 76/73 keys, especially if they feel worse than the ones in my NC2. I also have some constraints on weight and size (e.g. I would like for it not to be hard to put in my car when needed).
Can you guys help me put an end to all those doubts?
Thank you in advance!
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Hello everyone!
I'm GianfrixMG, a technology nerd from Italy. I'm an amateur singer who currenly wants to start play keyboards again after a really long time.
Nice to meet you all!
MOXF8 vs MODX7/8 for an hobbyist
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted