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ChopinAcolyte

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Posts posted by ChopinAcolyte

    Digital piano with realistic action under $2000?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    For piano playing alone (as opposed to extensive layering or sequencing), I've rarely seen polyphony make a difference. It's also hard to compare because the implementation and voice stealing algorithms vary as well. A time it did make a difference was with the original Korg Kross at 80 polyphony, because its main piano sound used 4 instances of polyphony per key, with a simple FIFO note stealing algorithm, so you ran out after 20 notes which was not too hard to do. OTOH, it was basically impossible for me to coax a dropped note out of the Yamaha NP-30 which had only 32 polyphony (it performed better than the Yamaha MO-X with 64). But for piano alone, I doubt most people would ever notice any issue with any board that had 128.

     

    Oh, okay, gotcha, this bit sounds definitely useful, will keep it in mind if someone tries to sell me something more expensive arguing by polyphony alone.

     

    Getting back to the main question in the subject line, there's also the issue that real acoustic pianos vary in feel, so what are you comparing it to? I played a Kawai MP10 which arguably was pretty realistic, but had quite a heavy feel. So I'd say maybe it was realistic if I compared it to the Kawai baby grand I played at a gig, but not at all like the Yamaha G3 baby grand I played at another gig, which was super light. (Neither were among my favorites, they were at two Goldilocks extremes.)

     

    I played a lot of Yamaha uprights at the local music school, which all have about the same feel to it (medium) and also practice Steinway grand which I found super heavy. I would prefer something between those two, as I don't want my hands to get accustomed to something light, when I will find playing real pianos super hard afterwards.

     

    I just "downgraded" from a CP4 to a Roland fp30. (Pior to Cp4, I played a Roland FP4 at home and gigged on a yamaha grand almost daily.) I couldn't belive the Fp30 has such a more piano-like action to me than the CP4. During the one year of owning the Cp4, I struggled to warm to it(sound and action) but with no success. The Fp30 also gives your finger some good workout. Switching from it to the yamaha grand I gig on is effortless. Also, I can play some classical pieces on the Fp30 with ease, while it seems impossible on Cp4(It may be just me.).I also own a Kawai ES 8,which is a beautiful instrument (better sounding than the Cp4 IMHO). But its key action is a little bit too light for a practice board, though it plays beautifully as a gigging board. So now the FP30 has my favorite action among the 3.

    Now I'm a Roland guy again, and I wonder how much better the FP90 and RD2000 are than the FP30(With my respect to all the fellow mumbers' opinion here, I have to try these myself and sincerely I think you should , too ).

     

    Interesting, I found the action of Roland FP-90 similar to Yamaha lower P-series (115, 125), i.e. not particularly enjoyable. So, I wouldn't expect FP-30 to be performing any better (if higher number = better instrument).

     

     

    Kawai CN-27 still looks good in my book, I touched it and the local Kawai dealer offers 10 year warranty (provided there's no catch to it). I will see how long the warranty is on Yamaha P-515 once I get to try it at the shop.

     

    With DPs I seen a lot of threads/videos describing/showing bugs in action, velocity sensitivity etc. I want to buy something that will last long and if not, at least they will repair it in case something shows up.

    Digital piano with realistic action under $2000?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    At approx. $1,750, you can't go wrong with the Kawai MP7se. I owed this board and the keybed along with their AP's sounds were very, very nice. The playing experience was excellent.

     

    I tried googling, but I couldn't find nice and sturdy looking stand for that one (not the X type). Moreover, with the stand, triple pedal and bench, it probably goes over $2000 again, so CN-27 might be a better option (considering the action is the same: RH3)

    Digital piano with realistic action under $2000?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    Based on your requirement I suggest getting the P-515 or a used CP4.

     

    ...

     

    Did you try P-515? I found the following on the internet (https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/action-on-cp40-compared-to-cp4):

     

    I have tried both the CP40 and the CP4 in my home for 30 days each time. The action is completely different. The CP40 feels more accurate when playing classical piano music that requires wide variations in dynamics. I think adding wooden keys to the CP4 was a mistake and more of a marketing ploy because it feels like I am pushing a wood piano key that has been cut in half with no hammer on the other end. It is very distracting does not allow me to suspend my disbelief that it is not a real piano.

     

    And this is what I'm concerned about. Natural Wood is not a full wooden key and even if it was, if the internal mechanism is not replicating a part of the real action, the overall feeling is not realistic.

    Digital piano with realistic action under $2000?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    I've played a P-515 and agree with Mr. Ferris 100%.

     

    How good is the sound generation in P-515? Does it feature sympathetic resonance?

     

    Edit: whoah, I actually read up on P-515 in more detail online, and I'm surprised! They sample from Bosendorfer Imperial (the famous 97 key grand), it comes with 256 notes of polyphony (Kawai CN-27 comes with 192) and you can actually play around with various types of resonance, not only sympathetic (weakly coupled oscillators) but also what they call "damper resonance" (I guess that would be when you hold down the sustain pedal and play one note, every note responds with an amplitude depending, again, on the ratio of the frequencies), aliquot resonance ("how much overtone you'd like", though I'm not sure why it affects only top three octaves) and body resonance. This sounds very good!

    Digital piano with realistic action under $2000?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    Well, I'm deciding mainly between Kawai CN-27 (local shop, tried) and Yamaha P-515 (hopefully I can audition it at another local shop). If the local dealer says that he doesn't have better models and I should go to Atlanta, I choose amongst those who are willing to work with me. Sometimes it's also about customer's experience...if those two options didn't exist, I would probably order online and hope for the best, but now that I have an option to try models that actually sound good right there in the shop, why not...

    Digital piano with realistic action under $2000?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    So I went to Guitar Center, the only good thing in terms of action they had was Roland Juno-DS88 (doesn't have speakers, stand sold separately...). They also have a bunch of Yamahas and a console DP called "Williams". Never heard of it but its action was no good. I asked them about DPs with a better action and the guy told me that to try something better I should go to a bigger showroom, in Atlanta (4.5 hours away). Though I might've bumped into a person who doesn't know much about DPs, as it's called Guitar Center.

    Digital piano with realistic action under $2000?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    If you could use headphones and no triple pedal, ... $1,849.99 plus tax ... No speakers ... didn't need the fancy bench, at $2,077 plus tax .That wouldn't have a bench or headphones though, but there would be speakers in the ES8 anyways.

     

    Thank you very much for the bundles you found! However, at that price range Kawai CN-27 (RH3 action) is already a small cabinet style piano (no stand needed), has internal speakers, comes with a bench and my local dealer offers it at $1700. Though your setups are definitely useful if one tries to find different, not necessarily cheaper, alternatives.

    Digital piano with realistic action under $2000?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    See thread topic: Casio Privia PX-S1000 ($600) and S3000 ($800)

     

    A lot of very positive comments about this new keyboard and its piano action. I'm a new owner of a 3000. My business partner just bought a 1000 and he's very particular about keyboard action. We are both very happy with the action.

     

    One of the local dealers says he is an exclusive Kawai dealer and the other shop they seem to focus mainly on Yamaha and they say they don't have Casio. So...If I wasn't concerned about money, I would try it, but if I'm buying something, I have to be sure about it (i.e. touch it myself). Thank you very much for your input though!

    Digital piano with realistic action under $2000?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    Kawai ES8. Good pianos, great keybed. The best Ive played actually.

    Thank you for the tip! I looked online and the action is said to be RH3, i.e. the same as in CN-27? However, it doesn't come with a stand and pedals, which puts it at $2000+ range (for the whole bundle)...what sets it apart?

     

    I wouldn't be concerned about not having a furniture style stand. If you are concerned about stability and don't want to use a X stand you can always get a Z stand, Tabletop/Platform stand, H Stand, or the Roland curved C stand.

     

    Thanks, definitely looks useful! If other options fail, I might go for this option, however since that thing lacks speakers and triple pedal unit (neither me or the shop employee I talked to found one), I would rather not.

     

    To the OP: I agree that Yamaha P515 is a front-runner here. Some of the most discerning of our KC brethren rate it highly. It has a different action from the P45/115/125 and good built-in speakers.

     

    As mentioend above, a slab-style piano like this, (with the L515 stand) is much more transportable than a console-style DP.

     

    If you can't travel to try one - can you buy online and return it? (I don't know how the costs would work out).

     

    Cheers, Mike

    Thank you Mike for your answer! Yes, P515 sounds amazing from what I read about it and I'm curious whether my local shop can get one to demo.

    I might do what you suggested, but you mentioned costs...yes, while shops might be courteous enough to include free shipping, I would probably have to pay a lot to ship it back in case I want a return.

    Digital piano with realistic action under $2000?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    @Keepitsimple If only I didn't live in a sh*tty hole where dealers say "sorry that's a high-end instrument, we don't keep that kind in stock, you have to go to a bigger showroom to see that" and suggest a city 5 hours away. I don't have a car, so...$100 bucks spent on a bus is $100 bucks less towards the instrument itself.

     

    From what I've seen locally only Roland Juno DS88 and Kawai CN-27 had a proper action, I also tried Roland FP-90 and didn't like it. Not sure about the difference between FP-90 and FP-140, I'm not super optimistic.

     

    @CEB the cabinet style didn't occur that big to me when I looked on the internet, but you might be right...but still, I wouldn't need professional piano movers to move something of a weight and size of a desk...just take another pair of hands, put it inside a truck and haul it across the country, right?

     

    @Kawai James - great nick! ^_^ well, this is what I'm hoping for, but my local dealer is telling me generic brochure BS on how Kawai is exceptional amongst other brands and the higher price has its reasons. While I totally agree that Kawai is amazing (the digital piano he has in his showroom totally got me hooked up the first time I touched it), there is only so much I can afford, so... :) but totally, if he's willing to drop the price at least a bit, I wanna work with him, if he can provide a good deal compared with the music store right next door.

     

    @Jazz+ I checked PX-S1000 and I don't know the action ("scaled smart hammer action"). I can ask local dealers whether they have it so I can touch it, but I'm not sure anyone in this town does :D

    Digital piano with realistic action under $2000?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    @ElmerJFudd - I got most of my ideas from pianoworld, I just wanted to ask here as well :)

     

    @chigson - does it simulate sympathetic resonance, or is it matter of the software one uses to produce the sound?

     

    @fjzingo - CP88 is above my budget. I'd much love to have a piano, but there's just too many arguments against that: 1) I'm a grad student, I'm not staying here forever and moving it is a hassle. I'd probably sell it and buy another one where I'll move, which seems like a hassle. DP can be transported easily in a car. 2) Acoustic piano is a loud instrument...I have roommates and I don't think they would appreciate hearing the same thing over and over again as I'm practicing it. 3) I want to record what I play to a computer without using a complicated microphone setup

    Digital piano with realistic action under $2000?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    Hi, I don't know if this is a good place to ask so I'll just drop it here.

     

    I'm looking for a digital piano under $2000 that simulates the action of an acoustic piano as faithfully as possible. My candidates so far are:

     

    Kawai CN-27 tried it, like it, but a bit too pricey at around $1800

     

    Korg G1 air didn't try, but it sounds good from the description...any ideas? 120 polyphony seems alarmingly low, considering that one note can use up to 4 oscillators

     

    Roland F-140 didn't try and I'm hesitant, I tried F-90 and I don't like the action. Does 140 have the same action?

     

    Roland Juno DS88 tried it, like the action, but it doesn't have a cabinet-style stand (just the flimsy X), lacks triple pedal unit, doesn't feature sympathetic resonance

     

    Yamaha P-515 didn't try it (sadly, I live in an area with not as many music stores as I would like), but they say it has natural wooden feel to the keys but I'm skeptical, as other from P-series (45, 115, 125) feel nothing like a real piano

     

    From the description the Grand Feel II action (Kawai) sounds really good, but instruments featuring this action are crazy expensive.

     

    Many times the catch is that the instrument itself is cheap (e.g. $1200), but you have to buy a stand, bench, pedal unit...some synths don't even have spekers, external amplifier and speakers are assumed (like Roland Juno DS) so we're at around $1600 again. I actually like the elegant cabinet-style of Kawai CN-27 with the rolling cover, pedals and bench included. That price tag tho :(

     

    Any other brands and models I should be aware of? What else did you try and you like it? Thank you.

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