KorgyPorky
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Posts posted by KorgyPorky
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Heck at 30lbs 7oz thank goodness for the 8, even with the GHS.
Either the 7 (16lbs 5oz) or 8 is quite capable for a one keyboard gig.
With the nwx keybed, it would have been atleast 15 lbs heavier..
Just look at the weight of the p515..
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Same design architecture but Id check the fine print on complete compatibility assumptions. Over on the Yamaha forum, Phil has explained at length that a MODX file cat be read by a Montage. I think (dont know) the reverse is ok - MODX can read a Montage file?The Montage libraries are available for the MODX as well:https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/sound_library.html
I was all set on the 88, but now Im thinking I may want to get a 76 instead. Or both!
Same sound engine..
A montage 8 for the studio and a modx7 for the road makes sense...
you can take all your montage performances to your gigs in a lightweight package...
There is going to be a lot of content available for MODX - a lot already out. Easy Sounds had all of their Montage libraries re-jiggered for MODX and all set to launch same day as the MODX release. Others will also ...
Melas tools may solve any conversion issues for those that want to go from MODX back to Montage, not sure.
Just to quote Phil, Bad mister :
The MODX (2018) will certainly be able to load any data made for MONTAGE (2016)...
The MONTAGE cannot Load MODX proprietary Files.
It has to do with the fact that the modx has a newer data format then the montage..
So it works one way only, from the older to the newer instrument..
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The Montage libraries are available for the MODX as well:
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/sound_library.html
I was all set on the 88, but now Im thinking I may want to get a 76 instead. Or both!
Same sound engine..
A montage 8 for the studio and a modx7 for the road makes sense...
you can take all your montage performances to your gigs in a lightweight package...
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Haha! His name came up, actually. Bert is with Yamaha Europe and this was a Yamaha US event. I saw Bert's Montage demos a couple of Musikmesses ago and they were fantastic as always.
Bert isnt part of Yamaha Europe anymore, altough they often pay him to do some demos.. he is more freelance these days..
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At this price, i started feeling tempted 229 vs 399 is a huge deal, isnt it?
I feel some Gas building....
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Still wondering whether the lack of a Pure Analog Circuit (PAC) will show.
No, because you record over usb directly into the daw..and didnt use it..
And in live situations noboddy notices the subtile differences
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The modx6 is only 7 kg light..
It could be the perfect travel companion..
Add your macbook and blast away..
One would wish, the montage 2 will have the same light builds as these modx builds... the 8 is just 14 kg, for a weighted keybed..
Now the main question, will my montage performances and sets cary over?
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Hmmm. Necessary to go GHS at $1899?
Could have stuck the CP4s action in it which sells for $1999.
That does not sound like yamaha..
If you want good action, you need to buy the top model at yamaha..
I hope i am wrong, but cant imagine they will have anything else then the GHS action...
At best a GH3 action, but i dont think they will add the lovely NWX that is in the P515 and many other high end pianos.. if it has NWX, at that price buying would be a no brainer..
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Does this mean we will see a new montage X at Namm 2019?
I would love to see a VA, VL and waveform engine added to the next Montage..
And hopefully the return of something to play backins...
And offcourse the dreaded 9th slider.. and a bigger screen...
And a lighter 88 key version.. with the same keybed quallity as the orriginal(or better)
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Enjoy seeing people use the classic gear. The clavinet has seen better days.
What sounds do you use the Novation for? It seems out of place with all the classic keys.
Spent a lot of time in Ithaca, NY. My brother went to Cornell and I attended University of Rochester, so I was there frequently on weekends.
That clavinet deserves an overhaul, some tlc can make it shine again.
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In the end... the only difference between this sound engine and the many high quallity VSTs is the analogue filte...
So how much better is this analogue filter then the computer programmed ones?
And if so, is that worth 4000?
VSTs don't give you the same kind of hands-on control as this dedicated control surface does. VSTs require a computer, this doesn't. What would this set of 8Dio samples cost in the VST realm? Could you do the same kind of sound mangling as easily, in real-time? And switch among the sounds as quickly? There are a whole bunch of differences even before you get to the analog filters.
I ought to agree with this...
But with the new hardware integrion seen with omnisphere 2.5
This might actually change.. i can see software getting the same interface as hardware(becaus ethe hardware is actually the interface)
What if i added some keyscape stuff and some oscilators in omsiphere
And controll it with a novation peak or Roland system 8..
The only difference would in fact be the analogue filter..
Leaves again the question..
How much difference is there between omspheres plethora in filters and the prophet x filter in soundquallity?
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In the end... the only difference between this sound engine and the many high quallity VSTs is the analogue filte...
So how much better is this analogue filter then the computer programmed ones?
And if so, is that worth 4000?
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Why are we discussing the ability of SSDs to stream samples? It's a non-issue.
Early in this thread, we were discussing the idea that the samples a&re loaded into RAM and not streamed. While that makes sense when taking into consideration manipulation of the samples, it doesn't compute when you look at how large these libraries need to be and how fast they're being loaded.
First, a 10-vel layer piano in which every note is sampled for full duration can't possibly fit into 1.5GB. And if you add round-robins (linear size increase with each round-robin) it gets worse. Second, it takes some time to load 1.5GB into RAM, then purge and load the next ~1.5GB (granted not all would have to be that large). You can see in this video, loading appears to be nearly instantaneous.
[video:youtube]
So I'm still confused as to what's actually going on. It seems like the samples are streamed, not fully loaded into RAM.
Busch.
In one of the videos they admit to using sample streaming...
Which as you say is the most logical thing to accept..
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One thing is certain.
8dio knows how to sell this to me
[video:youtube]lVv2rmWkEVs
Wondering tough, if it will be possible to use a knob to cycle trough the variations of a sound, and another one to cycle microphone positions.. and if not, maybe they can add this trough the menu..
Also missing the wavetables that where in the P12..
To bad you cant have 4 samples, or 4 oscilators in a sound
But i can see how this is due to technical limitations.
Another thing missing so far seems the sound character parameters of the P12
Which was done digitally, so it could be part of the menu..
Nevertheless, i am quite excited...
Comming from a Korgy, but seems the prologue cant even come close to this sound.
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I'd argue you're not missing a lot, aside from the points Sven makes below. As someone about to get a Kronos I'm hoping it will largely replace the need for MainStage although I do trigger some audio files etc prior to some songs but I'm guessing Kronos can handle that as well.
The screen real estate is a good point from Sven though
As a purely hardware guy, it doesn't seem like for most gigs that the added complexity of going with something like main stage and a laptop would equal the benefit. Bear with me for a moment. All of the things you mentioned being able to do pulling from one performance to another, etc is all very easy to do in my Kronos. I save setlists for different bands. If one band wants to do a song that I did with another band, I just go to the other setlist, copy that slot, go to the current setlist, insert, done. If I'm putting together a new combination and remember I used a similar patch in another one, just look at that one, pull up that patch in the new one, copy effects, done. And the nice thing is I don't have to worry about routing things between different software and hardware instruments and mixing signals and running cables and interface to a laptop and all that. I don't even have to know what patch change to send to select a song....I touch the square on the screen with the song name.I get if people want to use a bunch of software instruments and sample libraries, but for most live cover gigs, I question if they're really necessary or if it's more a matter of "want" vs "need". For instance, pianoteq is surely better than the Kronos pianos. But by the time it goes through FOH mixed in a live setting through PA speakers and room acoustics and crowd noise, does anybody know the difference? I haven't yet encountered any sound I can't get in the Kronos. Maybe some software instrument may have a slightly better sounding organ or piano or string, but again, in a live setting, it doesn't seem like it would be better enough to justify the headache of dealing with a laptop, interconnection, and setup of the whole rig vs doing it all in one box.
Then I also hear folks wanting hardware boards to run maintain for redundancy so they have backup sounds. This always cracks me up because it implies the assumption that if something breaks down, it's going to be main stage. Because if the keyboard breaks down, you not only lose those sounds, but you lose the ability to run main stage as well.
What am I missing?
Actually my Kronos 88 makes the perfect mainstage comtroller
Allows me to have both in a single setup..
Choosing the EXT section in my controlls gives me everything a mainstage comtroller would ever need..
I dont undertand why to either go software or hardware.. software makes the perfect expansion for hardware...
Oh and this 39 program is the main reason for me to spend 3500 on a mac instead of 1500 on a windows laptop..
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Hmmm...two wave tables and two analog oscillators? Has the analogue resurgence peaked? Is it time for new and interesting developments with digital...again? Will the analogue market plummet...again? Perhaps we'll experience a five-year run on trends instead of the several decades of this recent technological renaissance?
The answer is hybrid... keep the good things from both analogue and digital and unite them
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The new piano model and the vibraphone model are not on my Gemini rack.
I like the tempo at which GSI is improving and developing new vitual models.
And they are not the only italian company thats very innovative, if GSI would cooperate with a company like Ketron and unite their strengths my dream instrument would be close to being born.
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I would wait till after Namm when replacing a px5s
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I wonder if there's an arranger on the horizon from Casio to compete with Genos and PA4X?
I'd really be surprised. Casio never offered a lofty-priced, high-end arranger in the past.
Actually the Casio mzx-500 is one of the most innovative arrangers on the market...
Sadly the sound quallity espescially from the orchestral sounds is very dissapointing..
In yhe end it just sounds like a real casio..
The most innovative feature on the whole arranger market is from Ketron
In their high end SD9 they have a feature called launchpad.
Thats a crossbreed between an Arranger and Ableton live
And there is more, its supporting both midi as wel as audio(loops)
If they ever release a module version of the sd9 pro, i will add it to the Kronos and never look back..
The most innovative part of the Genos is still the ensemble voices which are unique in all hardware instruments... but that was allready part of the T5. Compared to the current arranger market leader Korg pa4x, the Genos is still aimed to much at home players and misses a lot of the Pa4xs pro features...
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I once owned a Farfisa F1..
Worst money spend...
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Has anyome tried ViP from Akai..
It looks to be a very versatile host for live use..
But what comtroller(non keys) to use..
Having 2 keyboards on stage is more then enough
But this looks to be a much easier way to create vst performances then mainstage..
So what comtrollers have you tried ViP with?
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The confusion between workstation and arranger here appears to have been sparked by Yamaha, who are now referring to the Genos as a workstation a label they never used with Tyros (as far as I know). They applied it to Motif, but dropped the nomenclature from the Montage when they removed the sequencer.
And they took THAT decision because the vast majority of Motif owners were recording onto computer-based DAWs anyway. Maybe a few using them in high-end function bands were running tracks + click on their Motifs but again . . . a minority.
Yamaha is now calling Genos a workstation rather than an arranger because they are trying to refocus sales of that line on a younger demographic and probably just think that workstation sounds a hipper strap line than arrange.
The potential problem for Yamaha, as I've pointed out elsewhere, is that the younger audience is generally not as cash-rich as its predecessor. And the generation coming after that is used to making music using Ableton Live on a PC using a 200-buck controller with a myriad of flashing lights and pads.
It's a worrying time for the MI manufacturers. Roland's response to this dilemma has been to cut unit costs by largely chasing the cheep and cheerful. It's depressing for us here at KC, but it probably makes good sense economically for them.
I,think they allready marketed the tyros 5 as an arranger workstation.
Actually i am quite sure of that.
However, with the removing of the workstation features from the Montage, there was room for moving the Genos further to the workstation title.
However, they forgot to add some of the main workstation features in that process.
- no daw integration at all.
- no real onboard sound edditing features, only a few basic parameters
- they also didnt pick up the things that where lost with the upgrade from the motif to the montage, like the pattern sequencer.
While other wokstation features like te arpegiator cant even compete with the entry level MX synth series.
To be honest, the title workstation is just marketing, the Genos isnt one bit more workstation then your Tyros 4.
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Regarding arrangers in general, from what I've heard from OMB dudes who like to play gigs at bars, weddings, etc., people who see a keyboardist with an arranger and using a style for backup seem to think that arrangers are easy to play-- just press a button and you've got instant music, so you don't even have to do any real work. Anyone can do that, right?
That perception probably isn't helped by those old TV ads or how-to videos where some guy shows how easy it is to play "When the Saints Go Marching In" or whatever using just one finger and sounding like an entire jazz band.
But playing an arranger is not nearly as easy and simple as people think, because you must control the key and chord type that the auto-accompaniment is playing in, as well as switching smoothly between the various sections and variations of the style, while also switching between different registrations or voice setups when needed, not to mention working the modulation wheel and/or pitch-bend wheel when needed, all while playing the song without missing a beat. It actually takes a great deal of coordination and experience with the keyboard to pull off without making a stumbling shambles of it.
If people would only watch the Martin Harris Kraft Genos demo, they would know what it takes to get a great sound out of an arranger..
I think the yamaha divisi ensemble voices are one of the harder things to master for many keyboardplayers..
Also areangers are a very nice tool for mimmicking real acoustic instruments.. but each of those instrumentsrequires both knowledge of the orriginal instrument, as well as its very own authentic playing style to sound realistic..
If you play any of the flutes, guitars, brass or saxaphone sounds like you would play a piano or organ. You would get nowhere near a realistic sound.
Playing an arranger is just as specific as playing a synth, a piano or an organ. they all have their own playstyle.
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Because I'm a simple-minded guitar/bass kinda dude, can someone clarify the difference between the Genos and the Montage? I thought the Montage was the new be-all, end-all, and now this thing comes along. Are they for different applications? Is this the new top o' the line, replacing the Montage? The Montage is expensive enough, and yet this one's even more. What's this thing bring to the table that the Montage ain't already got (aside from more money for fewer keys, vis a vis the Montage 88)?
Grey
Hi Grey --
Short story: Genos is targeted for one market segment and the Montage is targeted for another. Montage is what Yamaha thinks is a synthesizer and Genos is targeted for stage performers, one man bands, in particular. Home players have adopted the Genos because it is a high-end extension of the arranger workstation line.
They share a lot of technical DNA including samples and some voices. Features like voice editing, sequencing and so forth are segment-specific (in Yamaha's view). Quality is high at the top of both product lines.
Choice of Montage vs. Genos comes down to musical goals. What does a player need for performance? The studio? ...
Hope this short answer helps -- pj
Actually the problem is the one-be-all yamaha keyboard..
They refuse to make it..
The one-be-all Yamaha keyboard would have everything the Genos, Montage and their latest CLP pianos have. and then some more synth engines added.
The hardware would support this.
They have all software required to create this in their database
Sadly they spread their technollogy thin over a few instruments. Or just save it up for the next version of their instruments.
So why are these Genos instruments so expensive?
Simple answer, because the intended buyers are prepared to shelve loads of money, just to enjoy their instrument.
If they ever make the one-and-only- true -be-all-instrument and add 88 keys, wake me up, i would even be willing to spend 5000 on it or more.
Yamaha MODX
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
He montage screen icons are allready bigger then most of the kronos interface..
Altough a 9 touchscreen for this interface would hae been perfect..
From my experience, indare say that many of my irritators with the kronos touchscrean dont excist on monage, and so will not excist on moxd