roygBiv
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Posts posted by roygBiv
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See, just to be contrary, I would argue to go in the opposite direction - lower cost, lighter, more capable of capturing the "impulse buy" crowd.
If you could design it to appeal for both keyboard players AND guitar players, by including an optional internal speaker or amp simulator circuit, it could seriously broaden the market.
The "boutique" guitar nerd crowd (who's numbers are legion) think nothing of dropping $200-300 (or more) for some re-hashed version of a Tube Screamer pedal -
Thus, I suspect they would have no problem ponying up for a a mini-SS3 after they heard what its 3D sound could do for their "tone".
Anyway, just a thought - not sure how much extra engineering that would require. The Fender SFX satellite I owned previously was extremely cool, but the form factor frankly sucked.
Part of that may have been because it was designed and released before the cheap digital amplification options that we now have available that enable such lightweight amplified speakers.
If it had been half the size, and had an easier interface to use with any amp (no just amps with effects loops), I think it could have been a hit. Especially if it could simply be used to route your effects into - nothing beats an unaffected sound in one amp, and the effects in a second - really cleans things up. Brian May used to do that, and he has a PhD in physics, and really cool hair).
It might be the right time now for a re-boot, with a dual purpose guitar and keyboard version - that would seriously broaden the market.
OK, my apologies for the ramble, its late and the Lagunitas Hop Stupid is winning.
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Aspen
I think it definitely is worth considering - a SMALL, lightweight SS3 without the front speaker could definitely be a viable product.
I actually had the Fender Satellite SFX that you noted above - cool concept, but as you note, Fender dropped the ball in its implementation, with a number of glaring defects for guitar player usage:
1. The onboard effects, while cool, were could not be switched remotely (kinda rendering it useless for the average guitar player used to the immediate satisfaction of stomp-box gratification)
2. It assumed (and essentially required) that one could run it as part of an effects loop - which left a middle age guy like me with his prized collection of 60's and 70's Fender amps out of the loop (so to speak).
3. It was unnecessarily heavy and awkward to move (big square box, handle placed in the wrong position).
So, I never ended up using it - but it was easy to trade to a music store once they heard it in action!
However, since (as you anticipated) a lot of the interest in your CPS technology has been keyboard players (a more refined and discerning bunch, I'm finding), I think you could make this work!
Maybe if it was (as timwat suggests above),lightweight, and half the size of the current SS3, achieved by just including the side speaker that does L-R, you could almost sell it as an "effects" box.
If the price point was low enough (>$400 maybe?) then it would get closer to an "impulse" buy level.
Maybe also have a version with an included small mixer and/or effects to highlight the CPS effect as a 2nd tier option.
Anyway, just a thought - I'm sure there are plenty of Keyboard players that are reading all this SS3 excitement who would love to try one, but are already happy with their portable PA speaker. This would give them an easier pathway to try - and they may later end up buying the full enchilada later!
Me, I'm so happy with my SS3 (literally the coolest new music item I've seen since my days working in a music store back in the early 80's, when every year it seemed some new gizmo was coming out) that I bought an older SS2 so I can leave it at practice. Had something like the hypothetical product like we are now discussing been available, I would have bought that instead, to go with my 12" Mackie Thump (I know, not the best speaker, but affordable for a hack like me, and got me by until you released your SS3!).
Anyway, just my 0.02c - do what you think is best, as a guy who runs a small (very small) research lab, I understand you don't want to over-extend your operation, as that can bring the whole thing down - either way, keep on inventing Aspen! Love your product(s).
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Hey Hardware - thanks for that tip and that company!
I run a small research lab and can think of a lot of things I'd like to have them make.
One thing though - your link doesn't work - I think the correct link is http://www.tapplastics.com/
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Hi Tom
I went with Roland's suggestion: (CB61RL) , mixed feelings, it's ok and light, but not a lot of padding, and weirdly long handle straps.
More discussion here:
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Richforman - well put summary - still love my VR09, don't understand the haters. Other than the weak key bed feel (which several of the same era Rolands now have) it is a great instrument - as you note, so much more of a liberating actual instrument compared to workstations.
Tomkittel - totally agree with you as well - the VR09 through the SpaceStation is really a killer combo, and really shines in a live band setting - no problem being heard! Also, the ability to "make it shine more" in the middle of a song is so easy, because of the easy access to most things. Plus the effects, etc.
One other comment - if I recall correctly, Tom you also have a Roland RD64? If so, try then together, the VR09 is so light you can set most of it on the back shelf of the RD64 - great dual manual set up. You just need something to prop up the back of the VR09, and you're good to go (check the recent "two tier stands" for some ideas".
Anyway, sorry to be a fanboi, just felt a need to chime in for some reason. Sadly/not Sadly the combo of the RD64 (for piano, clav,, etc) and the VR09 + SpaceStation have kinda dampened my Gear Lust, as I can't seem to find a better lighter/cheaper/better sounding combo. I'm left to drooling over stands....like the cool stuff in the two tier thread.
Roy
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OK, thanks Mitch - I agree, indeed it would be great if it could do that - I have a Roland RD64 with "escapement" (whatever that is).
I really like the way it feels playing piano, and with only 64 keys, is not much longer than the Mojo 61.
Unfortunately, I'm not super excited about its EP sounds (they are ok, but not great).
anyway, thanks for the quick answer!
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hi Mitch
First of all, thanks for for taking the time to write up this very informative review - it is very helpful and encouraging me to spend money. (So maybe I should not be thanking you?)
Anyway, quick follow up on FunkKeyStuff's question
Can the Mojo61 do an Organ sound with the main keyboard, with a simultaneous EP sound triggered from a 2nd keyboard by MIDI (maybe on another channel or something?)
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Synthaholic
I think Aspen means laying it horizontally on the floor, with the front propped up with either a stand or some sort of wedge, so that the front speaker is pointing at you, and the 6.5" side speaker is also pointing at you, but bouncing off the floor first.
I've also placed it horizontally on the floor and leaned it back against a wall or something to get the same effect, just have to make sure it doesn't lean to far back and squash your input cables.
Aspen may want to consider installing (or selling as an add-on) some kind of leg that attach to the side of the amp, like the old Fender amps used to have. Those are cool! Love them on my 1970 Fender Pro Reverb.
Anyway, by having the length of the speaker cabinet physically touching the floor, it seems to really increase bass coupling. With this arrangement, I've never noticed a lack of bass, but have with it standing "normally".
And if you point the main speaker at you, you get a really nice even sound. Not quite as "3D" as it can be standing up vertically, but seems more consistent from venue to venue.
I pretty much do the above as default these days, just because it avoids any variability.
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Thanks for the tips guys, I'll see if I can try any of them out - we don't start actually recording until 6 pm tonight, so if anyone else has any suggestions, I appreciate it.
Basically, it will be tracked live in one room (bass, two guitars, drums, keys), using dynamic mics. Old school ska/early reggae type sound. Horns might be in the same room too.
Keys will be either hammond, acoustic piano or Farfisa sounds using my Roland VR09/RD64, or the Hammond M3 in the room.
Really nice facility, good size live room with 15 foot ceilings, great vibe. Looking forward to it. Just not shure how best to capture the great 3D sound of the SS3 in that type of setting, without getting too much bleed from everyone else (hence am a bit hesistant to move the mics back too far, although I agree that would be a great way to capture the sound).
Micing up two separate speakers/amps in stereo, like MotiDave suggests, may be the best way to go after all, given the constraints.
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Sorry to but in, but any suggestions for the best way to stereo mic a SpaceStation using dynamic miss ( any mic suggestions would also be appreciated).
I'm recording tomorrow night in an actual studio. The engineer/producer wants to only use dynamic mics, for an old-school vibe.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure what would be the best way to mic the Space Station using dynamics.
A mid-side mic placement might be the best way to go, but not sure that's going to happen. Maybe I could use one ribbon as the L-R, and a dynamic for the Mid.
Anyway, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
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MOI this was years ago.
This is not the first time in my life I've asked this, but: why me? I think it was CPhollis and roygbiv in on this one.
I deny everything.
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dude, I'm trying to eat my lunch right now.
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Anyone have any luck with or tips for changing VR09 patch registrations using external MIDI program change messages?
I'd like to have my iPad app "ForScore" send change commands, so that when I pull up a song, I could have the change occur automatically on the VR09.
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One trick I learned ( from this thread ) for epianos distortion is to use the twin rotary/Leslie for distortion
Go into the menu, set rotary speed to zero, now you can get some amp/distortion sim by setting up effect to twin rotary, then turning up the effect knob to taste. More distortion, without rotary effect
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Hey guys
I'm intrigued, but I think you would have to have at least the 2nd, sideways, "perpendicular" speaker be an open back cabinet - to produce the Figure 8 pattern. Not sure how you would do that with a powered PA speaker, those are always enclosed.
At least that's how it makes sense to me. And both a Groove Tubes Satellite speaker cabinet I used to have, and my SS3 seem to have the perpendicular speaker in an open-back cabinet configuration. Doubt that Aspenn did that by accident, or to save a few bucks on cabinet material
.Anyway, I'm just going by analogy with microphones in a mid-side configuration.
Bottom line for me was I figured why not just get the one made by the guy who designed this. As I get older, my patience for tolerating twiddly things on stage is plummeting in an inverse relationship with my appreciation of well made, simple to use gear.
Hence my purchase of the SS3
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I agree sleepngbear
I thought about trying to roll my own, but quickly decided exactly that, it would not really be any cheaper, and be very rickety.
On top of that, I can say as a proud owner of a SS3, its just feels like a real quality piece of equipment - very small, compact, very solid and well made - those aspects alone are worth a couple of hundred extra, in my book.
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DanL - why not use the SS3 and use the out from that into one of the ELX15P's?
I'm thinking of doing something similar with my SS3, except into my one newer Mackie 12" Thumps (with "1000 Watts" of digital power).
Haven't needed to yet, but wondering if it will work. Been meaning to try something like that.
I suppose you'd lose some of the M/S sound quality of the SS3 with another speaker running mono, but you could certainly get back some low end "whoompf".
Maybe it doesn't work, just wondered if you or anyone else has tried this approach -
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How does the horizontal/amp stand trick work for the "bloom" and stereo effects? Trying to decide if I should buy such a stand.
I just got mine yesterday, snuck it into the house unnoticed (heee hee), and played around with it this morning.
Very cool! Using it with a Roland VR09, digging the Leslie effects and patches that emphasize stereo effects. Made me late for work, it did!
Already happy I bought it, can't wait to gig with it!
Doing some reggae/ska/dub stuff. Can't wait to see my bandmates freak when I hit that first dub hit with stereo echo and reverb.
"Whoa dude, what was that".
I'll just say
"what was what?"
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thanks Aspen, that's what I'm gonna do.
two quick questions:
1. Does the sub have to be directly below the SS3?
I recently started sitting on my Mackie Thump - saves my old back, and helps me dial into the beat of this ska/reggae band I recently joined. However, if the speakers need to be aligned, I'll just get a stool or something.
2. Are some effects more impressive/3D with SS3 than others? Pong delay, panned tremolo, reverb, etc?
I remember some effects were more pronounced on a Groove Tubes satellite SFX I used to have, but I can't remember what they were. Also not sure if some of that was due to special processing/effects in the Satellite.
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aha, thanks cphollis and timwat, good points, i forgot about the stereo aspect.
Guess i'll just use it as-is and see how it goes.
Don't need to start new GASing before I even get the first thing I GAS'd for!
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Anyone know of a simple, cheap, in line high-pass filter I could insert between the SS and my Mackie Thump (12") that I was planning to use as a sub?
It would be especially great if said device also had a direct-pass through to feed the FOH.
My SS3 is schedule to be delivered on Tuesday - really looking forward to it!
thx,
Dave
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indeed, thank you Tom, this is very useful info!
This will work better for my scattered brain, than remembering which Thumb-drive has which - I can just name the folders differently, then change depending on the gig
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Hi Alan
I've not used them in a Church setting, but I've owned both the Casio XW-P1 and the Roland VR09.
I first got the Casio for the Organ capabilities - never thought they were very convincing, and the ROMpler piano is truly terrible on the Casio. Ironically, the synths and synth engine is fantastic - but I have plenty of synths, so ultimately got rid of it (after learning how to program it though, very interesting sound engine).
Bought the VR09 last summer - truly blew me away, I'm very pleased with it.
The sounds are superb for many things, especially Organ.
And, once you adapt to the interface, you may have the realization that i had, that this thing truly feels like an INSTRUMENT, not just a box full of sounds with an attached keyboard. The ability to make subtle (or not so subtle) changes on the fly, both with the drawbars, but also the effects and tone shaping, is really great.
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Quick Question fro Aspen (or anybody else!)
I used to own a Fender Satellite SFX guitar cabinet - I was amazed how that with the built-in effects on that thing, you could get some really cool, 3D multidimensional sounds! Very hard to describe, almost like a ventriloquist "throwing sound", Very cool indeed. Startling even.
Anyway, based on that experience, the testimonials in this thread, and my love of your many fine products over the years (such as your GT MD1A mics), I placed an order for a SS3 last week at Sweetwaters.
My question - are you or will you consider offering some of the DSP effects you had in your previous SFX series? Alternatively, do you have any suggestions for effects that especially highlight the "3D" effect of your SFX technology?
I've started playing keys in a old-school ska/reggae dub band (think Skatalies, Jackie Mitoo, King Tubby, etc.). So, when my SS3 comes, I want to blow my band-mates mind with some cool effects (I'm playing a Roland VR09, cool instrument, with a Boss RE20 Space Ceho clone). I'm normally a guitar player, so I need to distract them while I get my chops together....
I mean they got songs in F#m, WTF?Thx,
Dave
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Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
tnelson
this is a very cool idea! I look forward to what comes up.
If this works, it might be something easily addressed using an EQ in an iPad app or lightweight digital mixer.
(ahwile ago I thought of trying some EQ tricks, even picked up an old Rane EQ to try tweaking my SpaceStation. Never got around to trying it though - so I'm now eager to see if this works!).