lekanout

carl c: Thanks for the kind words Theo: i agree about for all you said about sampling. But in use,i'm often playing live with 2 furious guitarist where the audience can't hear the sampling issues in these situations. And i read all the considerations from dave ferris(for example)i understand his vison with his cp4.

No problem guys. Every feeling from different users is interesting for me. That´s why i've joined this forum with many experimented users. We all have different piano culture,playing different kind of music. There isn't universal choice. But all products are quite good today. No reasons to be sad to play a cp4.a roland or a kawai:-)

Yes. You can download the manual to understand what you can do. But judgements are often based on presets for digital pianos. With response adjustments and modelisation parameters you can do very good tweaking to feel better a keyboard you don't love at first"out lf the box" For gigging it´s so important too to find your way and cut in the mix. With roland rd i have to tweak more than with my nord piano 2 for exemple.. I always found them less easier to calibrate for me,but better if i tweak parameters. That´s what i feel. Kawai james: Thanks for the information. I promise you i will take time to try the kawai stage pianos soon at the centre chopin in paris:-) My shop in paris(star's music and home studio 2 of the biggest on the place)seems to refuse to work with kawai for stage pianos..they don't propose it. I don't know why..

Thanks for the kind words james. Some shops in paris sell kawai(more oriented classical pianist),but the shops oriented more"advanced users"(and studio-home studio) where i often go don't sell it. I asked them why,and they told me"commercial reasons" My shop is one sof the biggest and most known in paris,i have a good fidelity relation as a customer with it. So it´s not easy to buy in another shop for me:-) I don't know if the mp series are availaible to test in other shops and where,because i saw they don't have it in stock.. I have so many previous gigs soon with my two bands too and i don't have time to look for the kawai in paris. In europe we have thomann as the big reseller(german)who have it in stock but i will never buy gear like this on the net without putting my fingers on it,i don't want to test it in a shop in paris and buy it on the net(bad way to do as a customer),and prefer supporting french shops. But i looked a lot honestly the mp11 and 7 on the net,you make me think about them.. And i will test it as soon as possible because i absolutly loved what i heard and read on the net about these keyboards. The mp 11 seems a pianist dream for a digital piano,i can sell my nord piano 2 in the future if this one appeals me.

Jazzdoc52: I understand what you mean. I agree for all you feel about sound quality,split possibilities...etc I was able in fact to understand and scroll to the cp4 menus without problems,and that´s why i was delused by the sound tweaking parameters.(because i looked for that) I'm more a roland rd user since earlier models,and that´s a reason why roland is maybe more familiar in use for me.(and that´s maybe more personal than objective) As a player perspective,no problem with the yam,but for sound editing and design i really think roland is far superior. Just look at the specs if you're not familiar with the last rd series,and you will understand. Depends if you focus on your own player feeling or if you want more modelisation specs..just that.:-) And i'm already convinced your jazz gig will be great with your cp4 next week

I finally had the chance on the afternoon to review for the first time the rd800 and again the CP4. So here's what i can say: They were side by side. Both are great instrument. The RD800 was a good surprise: -the new pha4 keybed is really good,new pianos are very plaisant. I don't have any problem with sound and action calibration. It seems to me maybe the rd800 keybed is a little less heavier than my ex 700 nx,i don't know if it's me or real. Eps are now far better than the old 700 eps: More vintage,fat,large in the low mediums..warmetc etc. It's a good evolution now and while they aren't the absolute best,they compete with the other i like(sv1,kronos,cp4/cp5/cp1and after kurzweil and nord) I thought like a delusion at first the "more plastic"construction compared to my 700nx;but here again it was a good surprise. All is ok on all angles,buttons..etc. Roland construction is always high level i think on the top of their instruments. The RD 800 don't miss that. The cp4 is okbut i found the rd superior. The panel and ergonomy are more fun Side by side the cp4 is annoying,don't appeal to tweak when the roland is so far better.. Functions for tweaking sounds are poor on the yam..no modelisation parameters like the cp1/5. I have no problems to play the cp4,i really like the pianos and eps,different from roland but as good globally. I don't think one or another is better,it's just a matter of taste. Honestly i have the sensation the cp4 calibration is maybe more efficient on stage than the roland out of the box. I never found my rd700 quickly efficient on stage,and think it's the same for the 800: A little more work to make it sounds like i want. BUT the roland is so much powerful and fun to tweak the sound with its modelisations parameters when you have nothing on the yam. That's the big roland advantage. Don't judge the rd800 only with presets out of the box,the engine can give you more than you think for you. You can make the rd800 sounds like you want when yam is more"take me as i am" I found the CP4 keybed very good,as good as the roland I love and accomodate the 2,no problem and yam did a fantastic job to put a keybed like this on a "17kg keyboard". To resume: I'm not a purist,i had so much diverse stage pianos,workstations and digital pianos since more than 20 years. I know we have to take time to accomodate our ears and fingers to find a relation with a new sound engine and keybed. I can find a very good feeling on the roland or the yam,for sure. For sounds and keybed i can't see a absolute winnerjust a personnal choice to do for everybody. But i finally ordered the roland,because the cp4 don't appeal me for doing others things than playing,when the RD800 is so efficient to tweak,control midi..etc..all the rest i have to do! I found the roland superior to the yam for that. PS;No kawai try was possible.it's sad because i'm convinced they have some advantage too(ergonomy seems very good,keybed too especially the beautiful MP11 mechanic)but i had to make a choice quickly.. Kawai distribution seems less than yam and roland in the shops in france and i don't have time to look for a shop in paris to find one..

Yes carl: It´s maybe more interesting to have different colors with yamaha and roland,than 2 rolands.. But pianos and eps from rd800 are not available in the integra. Kawai james: I looked the mp11 and mp7,these pianos seems really fantastic pieces of gear! (The mp11 keybed seems at the top for a stage piano) And maybe they are the most beautiful. But distribution in france is less simple than yamaha and roland . And i saw some people in diverse forums(even in france)who had some reliability problems with the MP10.. In fact i never had a reliability problem with yamaha and roland(not the same with korg)and it´s an important thing for me. I gave a call with my shop in paris and i will test the cp4 and rd800 on friday. Unfortunatly,they don't have the kawai...

Yes james,i agree. I will try it if it is availaible in the shop I have so much respect for kawai,looked the MP11,but the weight is a problem.. I forgot the MP7...i have to test it! Thanks.

I'm gigging with 2 bands blues rock/southern rock 70,and i mostly play live with a nord piano 2 and nord electro 4. But the nord keybed isn't as pianistic and heavy... So i need a second stage piano with a better keybed for pure piano feel.I never practise on the nord but on my last roland and the next i have to choose. I don't play classical music,just rock/blues/pop.... So all the fast blues and and rock´n roll type licks... I had some old rd from roland and always loved them. It was a good surprise with the CP4 because i found on the yam near the feeling i had from a long time with roland. Dillemma!

hi guys. I've just sold my Rd 700 nx,and now îm looking about the CP4 or the new Rd 800. I consider these 2 stages pianos very good honestly.. But i've got a headache! -the cp4 appeals me with the good pianos and i love the yamaha rhodes..(wich is very important for me) Weight is a good advantage. I've just tried the cp4 15 minutes,and had a great feeling with the keybed,not as lighter as the CP5(too much and that´s why i choose the roland with a keybed near perfect for me.) So yamaha is on par with the rd 800 for the keybed i think now. The problems on the cp4 are: No modelisation parameters,ergonomy is not so good,too much plastic than roland.. I feel the Rd 800 better than the yam on the ergonomy(by far,the roland is near than my ex rd700 nx so i know why i feel that..)wich is more fun,easier and clear. To resume,i love the piano on the two,but the rhodes seems more dirty and vintage on the yam. All the rest i prefer roland. What do you think about the new eps evolution on the rd800(because roland says it is an evolution from my old 700 nx),is there something who tried it and can compare with the cp4? I really don't know what to take... If eps and weight are the essential:cp4.. But all the rest yamaha miss something.. if you have some thought about that tell me i apreciate:-)(i will go to try them in shop soon but the cp4 seems rare in stock) I did a google search,saw all the demos,it seems there is not so much information about stage piano,and not so much comparaison between them.. The roland Rd 800 threads are not so much too.

I'm not sure the 3 supernatural pianos from my RD700 nx are in the integra 7,jupiter or fa series. Maybe one or two,but i have a different feeling I have to play more my integra 7 because i have it only since a few days,but there was a litlle different with my jupiter 80. i don't know if it's because of the great RD heavy action...i will try soon to feel more..

I played the fa 08 and 06(not as a owner,but as integra7 owner and ex jupiter80 owner i'm familiar with the structure) Keybed: -In this price range,i prefer the fa08 heavy keybed than the krome 88 and MOXF8 -and i prefer the fa06 keybed than the moxf6 and krome 61. roland is way better for the price than the yam and korg,wich i absolutly dońt like. -sounds: i like the moxf6,but there's something more raw,fat with the roland..(idon't like the korg honestly) Roland sound is less perfect in some points than yam,but i think these new fa are the most funny cheap workstations now. We are lucky today to have theses performance for the price,the axial "srx reloaded"in the 2 slots for free is really one of the strongest point. The display is pleasant..construction is acceptable.. Nothing bad to say for me,fun to play and a good choice:-) for the piano: I don't think the supernatural pianos are the same than the rd series,but i think there are the same or really near the supernatural pianos from the jupiter 50/80 and integra 7 series.

Thanks!

Don't misconstrue my thoughts on the value of the VR-09 with me being a big fan of the Roland VK engine.. I don't really like the VK engine and I think it is the least authentic sounding of all the current crop of clones.. The reasons that I don't like the VK engine are probably the same reasons that you don't see a lot of them on the circuit in France. Yes i understand. But i have a question for you: Do you think the same for classic 70 rock sound? It seems organist never choose roland vk engine for jazz,but some people like the way roland organ sounds for classic dirty 70 sound(steppenwolf,deep purple..etc) What do you think about that?

Craig: I ve just read all your precedent messages in this topic. It's very useful and intersesting. Thanks for that. In fact,i agree with you for so many positive points with the vr 09. But i'm gigging in the blues/classic rock circuit in france,and i think it will be hard to find a vr09 on stage. I always see on stage hammond series and nord series today(or real hammond,or mojo and keyB)..never roland from pure organists. I personnaly disagree because i always loved roland,but it's like that. (i'm speaking about semi pro and pro players) Here in europe there is a lot roland bashing,i'm sad about this. But i suspect we won't see a lot of vr09 on stageonly with some amateur bands sometimes for the fun. About keybed. When i had the chance to put my fingers on the vk8 keybed,it was a really relly great sensation! The same i love with my rd700nx,but for organs. Nothing to compare with the vr09. Here again,maybe it's only me..but i love that! Oh god if the vr 09 could have wood panels and the same keybed than the vk8,i will buy it for sure

Craig. Even if the vr09,is a good keyboard,i don't see where is the problem to suggest other solutions,and it's not like saying bad things about your VR09. If you think vr09 vs VK8,you think roland organ emulation. Roland portable organ emulation(with drawbar) since the vk8 is: -VK8 -VR760 -VR700 -VR09 But the organ engine is available(with less parameters)in the supernatural parts of a jupiter 80/50,the integra 7,and even a BK9 for exemple. I think it's logical to share about all the vr.. To be honest,the VK8 vs VR09 could be my personal debate too,and discover a used vr700 is the best compromise today. Just my 2 cents,not a solution for everybody:-) Choices depends where you want your priority. If you speak about tech specs,the choice is for sure the vr09,or the FA06 with supernatural organ engine. But if you ask about the VK8,you speak about an organ player point of viewand the VR09 isn't the best choice because playing on a really good waterfall keybed is a better experience than the VR09 keybed. (if waterfall keys are not a priority,i prefer for exemple my kurzweil pc361 superior to a VR09 in all aspects i think,with really good organ emulation.less expensive than the VR09) So depends where you think the essential is..but i think a organ player won't choose the VR09 because the of the need of the waterfall key .

(Thanks for your kind wordscraig and six strings,yes i know the mojo,but it's more evier and i'm not sure about the reliability) I suggest the VR700 because the VR700 is the evolution from roland more near the VR09 than theVK8. The vr09 has 2 problems for me: 1-you can find a used VR700 near the same price of the VR09..with similar organ technology and better keybed. (Yes craig,if you speak roland organ,the VR700 is from the namm 2010,not from 2002 like the vk8) 2-i know very well the supernatural sounds frome roland because i had a jupiter 80 and gig a lot during 2 years with it. I must say i loved it! The vr09 has the basic supernatural synth engine and it's really a good advantage! But for just 100 euros more in europe now you can afford a FA6,with more specs and more soundsThat's a big problem for the vr09 The fa has the supernatural organ engine in it too.

Hi guys. Just a few words(this is my first post),i'm really happy to be in these forums because i know i have a feeling near so many people here. I'm a live player in france in 2 bands(blues rock/60-70,and southern rock/psyché rock 70)i'm too in multimedia and electro composition. I'm gigging with a nord piano 2 and an electro 4(piano feel and organ feel)but i'm not a big fan of the electro4 waterfall keybed. So i'm looking for another waterfall keybed,i try the hammond series sk1/sk2 and it's quite good. But i love roland keybed(i have a RD700nx too)and last week i share a scene where another keyboard player had a roland VK8. I tried it and found the keybed absolutly fantastic! Far better and plaiseant than my nord electro 4. I know organ purist don't think roland has the best "hammond clone sound"because the roland organs are old technology,but in the "rock70 orientation"with saturation,(and maybe a neo ventilator for exemple)there are good things to do! So i'm thinking about took another waterfall from roland. I looked the used VK8 but i think there are a little too expensive.. I looked the VR700,near the same price of the vk8,but hard to find. I looked the VR09but there is a problem: Good keyboard at a good price..but plastic keybed far from the VR700 andthe VK8!! That's the problem today with roland: The fa,the vr09 are very good keyboards,they have so much possibilities at a good price. But the pleasure to play is not only on tech specs.. I love high level keybed..wood panelsheavy keyboard more stable than a too ligher VR09(if you play furious organ licks..that's better on a heavier keyboard) So,to speak about the "VR09 organ orientation debate" ,i think the best from roland today is still the VR700. And i'm delused roland don't sell a new organ with wood,high level waterfall keybedwith the VR09 inside. I'm bored about all these ligh plastic declinaison from korg/yamaha and korg with good sounds in bad keybedeven if i know there are good products at a good price. I don't want to loose the "machine feel" Even the sk series are too much plastic,and the XK3-C is too expensive. Here's my point of view..