voxpops

The CP-30 was my first "proper" electronic piano for gigging. Used it alongside a Wurli, A Hammond X-2, a Korg Delta and a Moog Prodigy. Apart from it being a pig to carry, I actually quite liked its fairly unique sound, which was so much fatter than the CP-20. Way better than the Crumar DP80 I had at one time that I could tweak to get a piano-ish sound on about three notes in one octave, but everything else sounded like some kind of electronic experiment. Another Crumar I had for a while was the Trilogy. Played it in a theater production alongside someone with an Oberheim OB8. Boy, did I feel like the poor relation! Again, it was good for maybe three or four sounds. Other lemons: EX-800, Rhodes Suitcase and the Poly-61 that I thought might be as good as the Polysix...

I've been away from here for a few years after moving continents, just occasionally lurking in the corner and enjoying the really insightful comments on so many aspects of playing keyboards. My main rig for the past two or three years has consisted of Kurzweil SP6, Roland VR-09, Behringer Crave and MIDI bass pedals, all designed to keep weight and bulk to a minimum. I've cursed the VR for its poor action, lo-res pitch bend, and high-frequency artifacts, but found it much more versatile than an Electro. Having recently got hold of a Vox Continental 61, rather on a whim, I thought I'd chime in here with a few thoughts. At first, having hoped it might replace the VR, I didn't really know what to make of it, as the well-documented limitations (lack of octave assignment, rather clunky patch management, so-so Leslie sim, impossibility of seeing the LEDs in bright sunlight, etc.) had me relegating it to backup and practice. Now, however, I'm finding that the Roland and the Vox actually work well in tandem, despite a large overlap. The band I'm in is definitely toward the prog end of the spectrum and it requires my aging brain to cope with multiple patch changes throughout quite intensive keyboard parts. Adding the Vox into the mix allows me to reduce the number of changes and assign sounds to the most suited board. Even though there's not too much call for them in what we play, I actually think that, once the NuTube and FX are taken into the equation, the EPs in the Vox are streets ahead of the VR, and in some respects challenge those in the SP6. There are also certain Vox synth and string sounds that outshine both the other boards. On the organ side of things it's not so clearcut, but if I were playing more jazz-oriented material, I'd definitely pick the Vox over the VR. But what really makes this combination work, very surprisingly, is the MIDI implementation in the VR. The Roland allows me to set up a PC control channel per patch that can be different from both upper and lower channels. That has enabled me to program all my "upper board" patch changes into the VR, along with a descriptive name, and use that to instantly select what I need on both boards. No long presses on the Vox to select a different set and no need to remember patch numbers (thank goodness!). I've yet to use this 3-board combination on a gig, but I'm looking forward to the opportunity, if not the manhandling! The Vox is quirky, but definitely classy, and has actually damped down the desire for a new polysynth, despite its very limited synth capabilities. What it does, it does very well, on the whole, but I echo the call for an OS update, if only to fix the octave assignment issue.

Sorry, I should have said Objects file (not folder): PC3OB212.PC3

I can't seem to see any references to show how to do this. Does this require the Desktop editor? No need for the editor. Just download the V2.21 OS for the PC3 from Kurzweil here and then extract and open the folder. You'll find the Objects folder within. That's what you'll need for loading the files - either via USB stick or direct from your computer. You can choose to load the entire set (within remaining SP6 capacity) or select individual objects.

Sometimes wishes are granted! New firmware: Version 1.10. Substantial improvements to the APs, and many of the other bugs addressed. Thanks Kurzweil!

I understand what Dirshort is saying. I think Kurzweil should take another look at the "optimization" of the APs in the SP6.

You're welcome, Marillo, Have you considered the VR-09 to add a basic synth section?

It's an 88 and so you need to be aware of length when negotiating tight spaces - it would be easy to bang it into door frames etc., but I'm finding the width (15") no problem. It feels very light, and is easy to move, pack and unpack.

It seems to depend on whether you have anything in the front pockets. I took pedal and power supply out, and the board stayed upright (with that slight lean), but the extra couple of pounds is enough to tip the balance.

Just bought the GKB-88 SLIM, and it is a very snug fit. I'm going to leave the keyboard in it for a few days to allow the material to stretch and take form - as much as it can. Still topples over, but I think the wedges may help. I don't think there'll be a better off-the-shelf solution. Quick comment to Frank. I've owned an MP5, MP6 and MP7. Those are all great boards, and the MP7 gives the SP6 a run for its money. But in terms of weight, analogue synth sounds and overall flexibility, the SP6 wins for me. Add in the Forte SE pack, the old PC3 sounds and DW's additional tweaks, and you have a killer board for the money, IMO. Still needs a few bug fixes, but they're minor.

Thanks jpkeys, the Gator sounds like the best fit.

One thing to be aware of is that you can't stand the SP6 on its back in a soft case. The angled (raked) back means that the keyboard will always fall forward onto keys and knobs! I am going to try using a couple of foam wedges in the case to see if that helps.

I got a Stagg K18-150 sent to me when I purchased the keyboard. It's too long and a little too wide, but due to the SP6's front to rear depth, there aren't too many cases that'll fit. It'll do until I find something with a snugger fit. Maybe it would squeeze into a CP4 roller case???

Yes, basic editing is pretty easy, and the front panel knobs are handy. As I pointed out, there are a couple of bugs in the software, but knowing Kurzweil's record on these issues, I would expect an updated OS before too long. I haven't had to edit the strings yet, as I found just what I needed among the huge number of PC3 string patches. I believe that the SP6 has the VAST engine, which is a VA synth. With the forthcoming editor, I'd imagine that you could edit most parameters to suit. There are a few good analogue-type sounds in the SP6, and a bunch more in the PC3 pack. Dave Weiser's custom patches add another handful. What's good is that there is a thickness and presence that suggests analogue much better than say the VA synth in the VR-09. If you mean playing the KB3 organs from a second board, I'd imagine you could if you use the correct MIDI channel. This is not something I've been able to try yet, so I'm just guessing. I think that's partly the ethos behind a lot of Kurz sounds - they're designed for ensemble work rather than solo. Haven't moved it out of the studio yet, but I'm hoping that, despite the bulk, it'll be easy to move around. Just hope it holds up! You're welcome!

One suggestion I have for SP6 owners is to download the Forte SE extra packs. Within the pianos is an updated (using the SE/SP6 extra effects resources) version of the old Horowitz Grand. That is one great sounding piano, and it plays well, too. It may be, at heart, an old triple-strike program, but it demonstrates what the updated engine is capable of. I really think that the new SP6 pianos could benefit enormously from expert reprogramming. A 9ft. grand should have a huge bottom end - not a wimpy, nasal poke!

Dirshort, you could try the sax patches from the PC3 objects. I'd recommend downloading it anyway - there are some really useful sounds. It's a pain trying to keep it all straight in the SP6, if you don't know what you'll need beforehand, but worth the effort. You just need to download the last PC3 OS file from Kurzweil, and extract the Objects file. I, too, needed lighter weight - hence the SP6. I'd been banging on for years about the unnecessary (IMO) dumbing down of lightweight keyboards, and this is one of the few 88-key hammer action boards that meets the challenge.

Bonners Music in Eastbourne. I believe they and the distributor are the only ones with the SP6 at present.

Great programming, by the way, Dave! Just auditioned a few of the samples and they're really an enhancement to the SP6. Love that "WHO" lead with a little vibrato!

A HUGE shout out to Dave Weiser, who just sent me his SP6 files free of charge... and I'm not even a paying customer (living in the UK). That is just so amazingly generous!!! If you're thinking of buying anything Kurzweil, please, please, please go straight to Dave!

Further bug reports: 1. Editing Multis: attempting to transpose KB3 in Zone 1 results in Zone 2 being transposed instead. I tried it with a non-KB3 sound yesterday, and had a similar result, but with a lot of fiddling and transferring sound 2 to zone 3, eventually I made zone 1 transpose stick. Today, with KB3, it seems impossible. Edit: Zone 1 transpose doesn't seem to work properly with other sounds, either, and sometimes (unpredictably) changing zone 1 transpose will affect a completely different zone. 2. Editing Multis: Placing KB3 in zones 2,3,4 makes the pedal Leslie control inoperable. This may be due to the assigned channel, but it's not ideal. 3. There seems to be no way to assign reverb levels to saved Multis (haven't tried with Programs yet). The reverb level always seems to default to zero, requiring it to be reset every time you change a patch.

Thanks! Yes, I sent Dave a message a few days ago, but I think he may be away on tour or sunning himself somewhere exotic. It's a very generous offer, but I'd be happy to pay for a few significantly improved AP and EP patches - I believe the raw material is there.

I loaded the pc3 files onto a USB stick. Then I went to Global and found the place where you load (File Page 3/6 - file storage options). I then loaded the complete set of pc3 files in one go. It fills all the user slots and just ignores the surplus. I believe you can also access individual patches within a set, but I haven't tried that. If you then try to save a user program in a full store, you simply overwrite an existing patch. So I assume, if you want to load your KORE file after installing the regular PC3 set, you'd tell the system where to start loading, and it would overwrite the appropriate number of programs from there - but that is just an assumption. One word of caution. As an initial experiment, I thought I'd try loading some files I'd downloaded from other PC3 users at various times. I installed half a dozen or so, went back to playing... and nada... not a peep from the SP6. I rebooted and still nothing - not a single note would play, no matter the patch. It seems that the system must be fairly easy to corrupt. Fortunately, it reloaded the latest OS without a hitch, and everything was back to normal. It made me think back to my PC361 days, and I remember loading a couple of patches that wouldn't play, though they didn't seem to affect other programs. I must have loaded those same corrupt programs, but the SP6 may be a little more fragile in that respect.

Poorly phrased on my part. No, I meant that Kurz should have another look at these "optimized" new pianos and at least get them on par with the old triple strike for EQ and richness of tone, particularly in the bass. The 7' grand doesn't suffer as much as the 9' in this regard. As far as I can tell, the PC3 programs don't respond to the knobs in the same way as the internal factory sounds. It would be useful, but it's not a big deal for me. Those sounds were generally very well programmed in my opinion. so the questions would be, does the new feature of showing all parameters work on imported PC3 programs, and can you then edit the formerly hidden parameters or are they merely "shown" to you for informational purposes? My guess is that it would work on PC3 programs and that they would be editable, but since that was the extent of the documentation, the only way to be sure would be to try it (or maybe ask someone at Kurz or Dave W). Then you'd have to see if EQ is indeed one of the revealed parameters you can access on imported PC3 programs. Regardless of any of that, worst case, there is an editor coming out, and presumably you'd be able to edit the EQ of PC3 programs there. I'll need to do some more menu diving to be sure about what can be done with the old stuff, but as you say, the editor should take care of all that. Do you feel this way equally about both the German D and the Japanese? As mentioned above, I think the Japanese piano is the one that needs the most work. I'd be curious to try Dave Weiser's patches as I think he has the most experience programming piano sounds for Kurzweil. I don't know whether he's going to be offering them for sale or not, but I would hazard a guess that they make the most of the SP6's horsepower.

Listening to the "optimized" Forte pianos on the SP6 versus the old triple-strikes, I'm wondering if there isn't a whole lot of room for improving the SP6 pianos in an update. Obviously, I haven't a clue what is going on inside the works, but I am beginning to wonder if "optimized" means "make sure they don't compete with our higher priced boards!" If (and it's a big "if") that's the case, it's understandable, but possibly short-sighted. A lot of semi-pro users will be looking at this board due to its weight and potential. I have a few days to decide whether it's a keeper or not. At the moment, I'm on the fence...

You're very welcome. I hope to expand on it after a few weeks with the board. I did try it briefly yesterday, and it makes playing organ on the piano action tolerable - so kudos to Kurz for including that. And because it's dual sensor rather than triple, it behaves a little less wildly than using the high(est) trigger point on the MP7, which was prone to double-trigger due to key bounce. You know, that solution actually flashed through my mind yesterday!