Aspen

Correct, it is negated. No stereo, no Center Point Stereo. Dual mono is still mono...if there is no difference b/w the signals, then the CPS "sum and difference" matrix will only output "sum" (or mono, front speaker only. The side speaker is only activated with there is a "difference" b/w the L&R signals...as with all true stereo patches or recorded music. Funny story; I made the mistake of using a mono plug adapter from my CD Player when I was QCing the second delivery of v.3 (this was a L&R male RCA to L&R male 1/4 phone cable plugged into to what I thought was a stereo pin jack with dual RCA females but actually this adapter had a mono pin jack). I rejected the first several V.3 for "no side amp" and thought we had a bad run, before I caught my mistake. I even opened the 3rd v.3 and checked the circuits before I noticed my mistake. I tossed that damn "stereo to mono" adapter in the trash then and there...it had cost me 3 hours of absolute horror!

Well Dave, first off, your position sensitive bi polar speakers are pretty much the opposite design of our Center Point Stereo design. Your bi-polars are still a "spaced pair" of Left and Right speakers, albeit with a wider dispersion...but also are plagued with all the drawbacks (and maybe more) of traditional L&R spaced speakers. While the idea of this design being to somehow enlarge the smallish stereo sweet spot for listening (read; minimize the larger sour spots), it is still very environment (and placement) critical...as you yourself pointed out. So when any "spaced pair" of in phase sound waves with very different information waves collide and interact, they still phase cancel and create phase distortion, which destroys the detail in the recording. This is audio physics, and there is no denying the laws of nature. By contrast, our Center Point Stereo design has unique phase encoding electronics designed to drive even more unique phase decoding dual speakers that by design arer NOT position critical! In fact the sweet spot is virtually everywhere! (and virtually no sour spots unless you unwisely choose to place the side speaker 3' from your drummer's ear : > ) Just put on a stereo CD and walk around the room, the image never collapses, it even goes thru open doors into other room and retains a stereo image. CPS fills any room with a wide 300 degree 3D stereo that sounds good EVERYWHERE in the room....no matter where you place it. You might even try one at home and see what the wife says! Of course, if you set it atop a table with the side speaker in your drummer's ear...then he may not be happy. For that matter, if you placed your EV speaker in the same position pointed at his ear I am guessing he wouldn't be too happy about that either. So yes, you do have to be somewhat intuitive about this, but it really is not rock-it science, and it shouldn't take much "fiddling" as most those actually using it have already mentioned many times. The fact is our CPS system sounds great everywhere, but sounds best when you can get a few feet away from it. Look, any new technology will take some adjustment, and Center Point Stereo is certainly new. But in practice I think you will find it much easier than you are imagining, as well as more rewarding that you can possibly imagine. But don't take my word for it, just listen to what actual users are saying! Additionally, any learning curve you may encounter to optimize your listening experience will be well rewarded by the joyful experience of finally hearing your stereo patches, for the first time w/o headphones, in wide 3D stereo. You may also be rewarded by compliments from your band mates and audience about your new "wall of sound"....as many users here have already reported. If that's "boutique", then I'm good with boutique. I also think (much like the sub discussion) we are all over thinking this "placement" thing guys. As I have said many times, some placement areas can be better than others, you will have to try it and see what works best for you. But most anywhere you put it you, your audience, and your band mates will LOVE it...again, as so many first adopters have already reported. Sure, there are going to be some spots better than others, but there are no really "bad" spots...unless it's the side speaker 3' from your drummer's ear! The CPS technology is versatile and easy to use, it is not complicated. This not my "opinion", this is what I have heard from dozens, if not dozens of dozens, of users who have found our CPS system highly adaptable and working VERY well in various venues large and small. Then of course, in any comparison to your mono speaker we do have one rather large gorilla in the room on our side; we got stereo! However, if you have a stereo instrument and really think it sounds better in mono, and prefer to use a highly directional mono PA speaker because it is "consistently" mono...then probably CPS is not for you. But for me it's kinda like watching TV in black and white; once you see color it's hard to go back. So please don't judge an album by it's cover, or a speaker by it's spec sheet...give it a listen first before you judge it "Boutique" or "impractical". My guess is, you will be pleasantly surprised.

That is correct DanL, a mono signal will be heard in the front speaker only. Aspen, just to clarify my addled brain, I have a stereo mixer that I send LR out to the SS if I . plug only a single input into either input of the mixer and pan it 12 oclock the signal will only emit from the from speaker? What if I pan either hard L or R, same scenario? Well could could try that and just see, but the front speaker will always work if there is any signal in either input. But the side speaker ONLY works when there is stereo information to "decode". This decoding circuit is also called a "sum and difference" network. The "sum" is everything that is the "same" in the L&R channels, while the "difference" is whatever is "different" (or unique) in the Left and Right channels. So also, if you insert any signal in either L or R you will get FRONT speaker only, but no side. If both L&R are connected but you send a mono only signal (same signal on both L&R), then you will hear ONLY the Front speaker.

Actually you did... the PX5S has a 4-band EQ in it. ;-) Good point, and w could have tried that (if we'd known, so thanks, I will play with that if needed next time). But with both video and audio ready to go we didn't have a lot of time to dial in the KB. So I quickly tried a few things and "fixed" it by just removing the sub, and angling it. Sometimes, "less is more". I also liked the idea that we did this KB demo w/o the sub, so you can hear the SS v.3 alone when we put that up...I think it was pretty impressive. Much has bee discussed here about "needing" a sub, but in many applications I think our early adopters are finding it is not a "necessity" (but maybe more of a luxury). Also, we only had Michael for a very short time (busy man) and he had never actually performed on a PX5s before. So he was learning it on the fly. Obviously it's a very flexible instrument, but the learning takes some time. So many knobs, so little time....

That is correct DanL, a mono signal will be heard in the front speaker only. So try changing the placement, lower or farther away might be the solution for your vocal feedback issue. I also wonder if you had the MF higher than 12 or 1 o'clock...it's pretty hot in the vocal range. Remember also that stage mics are usually very directional, and if it's pointing back at the front of the speaker (with a wide dispersion pattern like coax design in the SS), it's gonna feedback at even moderate levels. Your former PA monitor speaker may have been more directional, or a narrow dispersion, which is a design goal of those so as to minimize feedback...as they are designed to be placed on the floor facing the singer from an angle (and so in the rear null spot of the mic). Center Point Stereo is certainly not "directional", just the opposite. We tried to get as wide a dispersion as possible, for the obvious reasons; to maximize a wider sweet spot for the stereo image. Life is full of trade offs, and this is one of those. But wide dispersion can be a good thing when used as a vocal system, especially in a small venue where space is an issue. In those settings I recommend placing the CPS speaker off to the side and/or well away from directly pointing into the business side of the mics. It will also serve as a better monitor for the singers the farther away they are from it and they will hear what the audience hears...and so can more naturally "mix" themselves better....something most complaint about; that they wonder what mix the audience is hearing. In our own big room APR studio, we have a v.3 inversely mounted in the ceiling and do live shows there occasionally. So it's using the ceiling like the floor to better disperse the sound and of course that really distances itself from the mix. It works like magic, filling the room so everyone (performer and audience) hears exactly the same mix) I have always thought that an inverted ceiling mounted CPS speaker would be a great install for a small bar or club that has a small footprint "stage" challenge. Many such clubs exist that have the a live trio on weekends, but little room for the band and it's stage gear, including a PA. Just add a small $200 mixer and it's "plug and play" for the performers, who can leave all the amps and PA home to open up more stage (or seating) area. Then during the week, the v.3 can provide the background music. Best of all, in either scenario live music or playback, it's easy to talk normally (and be heard) over a CPS system just because of it's soft wide dispersion pattern. It's very "easy on the ears"!

There are no problems with placing the SS on the floor, you get more bass response but a little less stereo--but you can add width. Exactly, great observation Andy!

I am enjoying the various observations in these last few pages about placement. I have made some general recommendations earlier on this thread on placement, but of course YOUR ears are the best judge. It occurs to me that this thread is becoming one of the best owners manual one could read! (and one you may actually WANT to read : > ) As noted by some of you, I agree, and would caution about anyone being in direct line w/ the side speaker only. That is like listening to only the "wet" sound in a stereo FX balance mix (which is EXACTLY what it is) as it can be very disorientating. Also if that vocal monitor feed of DanL had any reverb in it, then it will tend to feedback moreso than a directional PA Monitor might. The CPS's wide 300 degree dispersion can be both a good thing if you want yourself, the band and the audience to hear/feel your stereo patches (which was our "prime directive"), but also could work against you if you need a narrow personal vocal monitor and/or also if you are using a wide hall reverb effect on your voice. Of course, in that case, distance is your friend...the farther away from the mic you place it the less EQ treatment you will need, and the less feedback you will have. So positioning it is really a key point; and so "on the floor pointing slightly upwards", and/or placed farther away from you than "usual", could be the better solution. Remember, the CPS technology allows the stereo FX to "bloom" as you distance yourself from it, and also allows you to better judge your mix level with your band mates. That's why the more I use it, the more I really like it on the floor, and not to close to me. If I want more projection, more "presence", I use a small wedge under the front of the SS to angle it upwards (about 3-4" seems to work best). Of course all this is highly subjective, so again I encourage you to play with this new Center Point Stereo speaker technology, just because it IS different and conventional placement may not work as well for you as before. Illustrating this point, I can share an interesting experience I had this last Friday as we shot some new videos with Michael Lehmann Boddicker playing the new Casio 5S with some great new patches Mike Martin sent us. As usual, we started with the SS set on top of a sub. But Michael wasn't totally happy with the AP patches...maybe a bit too boomy. And as we were directly plugged into the v.3 (no mixer), so we didn't have any EQ options. But when I unplugged the sub(set at 125Hz ceiling) then removed it all together placing the SS directly on the floor using that slight angle trick...he was VERY happy. Both myself, Brian Ascenzo and Bill Kaylor (our APR engineering staff, formerly with Ray Charles) all agreed; the AP patches actually sounded BETTER w/o the sub, and the other EP, Hammond and synth patches didn't miss the sub at all. In my experience, I am finding many KB players don't like a sub because it can overpower the fundamental sonic definition of many (if not most) patches...as was the case here. I must admit I have been over prone to over use a sub just because I want to compete in the LF with all those KB amps w/ 15" speakers (albeit paired with Pizeo tweeters...ugg), or those more expensive 1,000 watt mono PA monitors. But I am finding, along with some of you, that sometimes we can leave the sub "in the car" and this little big box will do just fine all by itself (as it was designed to do from the start!) BTW, we should have that new Casio 5s/Boddicker video mixed and up on our CPS sometime later next week. I will post a link when it's ready. This time we recorded both the SS live in the room as before, but also we split him and went direct through our all tube studio signal path direct to PT11 for use at NAMM as a track we can playback THRU a SS live on the show floor. We will try to shoot several of these NAMM demo videos over the next month or so.

Again, good observations, For sure HF effect can more easily be heard on recorded music as compared to many KB Patches. There really is not much HF information on most KB patches (although some ethereal synth patches have lots of this). That's why most PA speakers are 2 way, and do not spend the extra $ on a tweeter. These PA speakers rely on the horn to carry the "meat" of the bands top end (1K to 8K), but that said, I don't think anyone would use them in your living room for critical listening (most all HiFi speakers have tweeters for a reason). As I wanted out v.3 to be able to work well in smaller venues where critical listening is important, and also to work well with any instruments, such as acoustic guitar, electric violins, and voice...so I wanted to give the v.3 an extended top end. Much like a good HiFi speaker, we run basically flat throughout our human audible listening range, even though many of our KB instrument patches like EP and Hammond/Leslie really won't benefit much from it. But of course, you don't really work your HiFi tweeters much either when playing Jimmy Smith organ tracks. Try playing a well recorded CD thru the SS v.3, I am sure you will hear, and welcome the HF level contributions.

"In my basement, here's what I hear so far, but note that I have not A/B'd them together: Loudness perspective- where I'd run the K10 around halfway in a small room and more like 3/4 or more in a bigger room, I'm running the SS around 1/3. I'm sure at the gig I'll have to push it a little more but generally, it's a loud little box." Good comments, and I agree the SS v.3 will be be louder at lower "dial numbers" as compared to a typical powered PA speaker. That's because the typical powered PA speaker is designed to be used with a mixer, which has a significantly more powerful output signal than any KB. So, when plugging a KB directly into a powered PA speaker you will usually have to set the volume of the speaker much higher than if you had a mixer "in the mix". The down side is that at these higher gain settings you will hear more self noise from the speaker. I think most would agree that their KBs sound better thru a powered PA speaker when using a mixer, and are more quite as well. A mixer also allows you to better balance the levels and EQ differences b/w you KBs. When designing the input stage of my SS v.3, I tried to strike a compromise on "input sensitivity"; half way b/w a typical instrument input and a power amp input sensitivity. In other words, sensitive enough so even the lowest output KBs could drive it to full power, and yet not too sensitive so that a more powerful mixer could overdrive it into front end distortion. I think we found the "sweet spot", because it can be easily used either way; with a mixer or a typical KB direct. That said, it is understandable that DanL would find the SPL he seeks at a lower number on our "level" control, as compared to a PA speaker designed to see a higher level from a mixer. Regarding bass response comparisons; In comparison, DanL earlier awareness of low end distortion when he pushed it hard could possibly be input signal overload as we do have a more sensitive input sensitivity (by design). But also remember, the small format design of the SS has just a 100 watt Class D amp pushing an 8" woofer, and could never deliver as much bass response as a more expensive mono 1,000 watt powered PA amp pushing a 10" PA speaker in a larger box. But, when a small powered sub is added for that under 125Hz information, I'd say we get "closer" for the left handed folks. (but then watch out for Bass player remorse) Rule of thumb signal chain processing tip for all these with, or without, mixer scenarios..."keep the front end large and the rear end low". That maximizes your signal to noise ratios and prevents input stage distortions. So, when using a KB direct into the SS; run the KB output level 3/4+ up and keep the SS Level control lower (rather than the reverse). Saving that last 1/4 level on your KB for when the guitar player starts acting up. And, when using a mixer; again with your KB(s) levels near the top, then each input channel gain trims and levels relatively high, the master well up, and the SS input set to the volume you require (this will usually be achieved under 50% on the SS master Level). Another trick I use for setting the SS v.3 tri-amp "FR response curve balance"; turn the width control (side speaker) OFF. So listening to this MF and HF balance in "mono" (L+R) seems to give me a better sonic perspective. FYI, I usually suggest to start with each the MF and HF full "OFF", then bring the MF up "to taste", followed by the HF. So you are "building FR the curve", so to speak. I often use a well recorded song for this exercise (specifically Babylon Sisters), and stand well away (10-20') and well off center from the SS because CPS speakers kinda "bloom" the farther away you stand. (I also use this distance perspective for setting the Width levels too) Then after I set the tri-amp levels, I set the Width level (to taste). In that way I am not judging the frequency response of the total system so much as the amount of stereo dimension I want (usually 50%). The side speaker has a more colored sound (for several reasons, it's the wider "effect" tone), and so listening to it while balancing the tri-amp levels complicates the tuning process....at least for me. Just my opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it.

Hi all, just a quick update on the SS v.3 new run; "Elvis has left the building!" Now they are on a boat in route to LA harbor, so we are "on target" for delivery to doorsteps in mid January. (Now pray for no dock worker strikes : > ) Thanks to all concerned for your patience, I am grateful and humbled that so many of you kept your orders in place. This new run hit several parts delays that threw us a month off schedule, but that was a substantial improvement over the first run that was 4 months late due to a dozen road blocks. FYI, the productions should now be smoother as we ramp up, as we have been taking steps to increase supply for 2015. So while this shipment is almost sold out (or so I am told), the following shipment due mid February will actually put some stocks on our shelves. I hope all of you early adopters who have been graciously vocal in your approval of our little CPS box, and those of you who have been so patiently faithful waiting for your delivery, will be smiling about this time next month. One thing I think most of you who have received your SS have noticed; it's really different and kinda hard to describe. You just have hear it. And, it grows on you. Try as we did, the M/S stereo live room recording/videos really don't do it justice. Which is why most of you have been pleasantly surprised, rather than being disappointed, when you finally get to hear it and play thru it. Nobody here is as relieved as I am to report that we are finally "on the water" now, and I promise to keep you all posted as events unfold.

Yes, sad story for old Saint Nick, who gave us so many gifts. We owe him so much and he gets too little recognition. There would be no Hammond tone generator wheels without Tesla! Of course JP Morgan was the devil behind the deed, although Thomas Edison got the credit because he was on the other side of the controversy with his idea to distribute all power to the masses in DC (Tesla's system was AC...thank God he won out!). While both Edison and JP Morgan were ruthless competitors, it was our 1st American "Bankster" JP Morgan who ousted Tesla and Edison from their own companies in a matter of months...forming General Electric (GE) with Teslas's and Edison's inventions and patents, and thereafter controlling THE "power" (electricity) for decades. Here's a great site on this, worth a read over the holidays: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Site:LRP:The_Conspiracy_To_Destroy/Obfuscate_Nikola_Tesla But unlike Tesla, I do not believe in "free lunches", hard work and good ideas NEED to be rewarded. And as a student of history I know of too many brilliant, yet dead, pioneers who forgot to make a profit, pay the bills, and beware of the Banksters. So, I try and strike a happy medium. I am building CPS w/o taking loans or partners, albeit slower than I'd like. But I am thankful to be just (barely) paying the bills, doing what I love doing, and bringing something new to the party; a stereo transmission for all of our stereo engines!

I wonder if this is another manufacturing delay? Maybe Aspen can give an update for us. I ordered mine 11/8 and was also given the original mid December delivery date. It is with great regret that yesterday I had to push out the Sweetwater estimated delivery by several weeks, from the 4th week in December to the second week in January. I know many of you have been waiting since early November for our 2nd run. It really grieves me that I can not make your Christmas brighter in stereo. The "usual" turn on an order is supposed to be 90 days, and the original delivery was to be the first week of December. It should have happened, but sometime the best laid plans go a stray...as in this case. FYI, we contract our v.3 design with two vendors; one makes the amp chassis, and the other (Eminence speaker) makes the speakers, the cab, does final assembly, does 100% QC and does the pack out. Then these are put on a boat to me. This arrangement is slightly more complicated because not all the components are made in China, as was the case with the first 2 SS Versions. I felt the US Eminence CX2008 was so much better than anything I had before from China that I convinced them to restart that speaker for me here in the USA. So this custom made 8" coax speaker (and matching 1" compression driver) are produced in Eminence Kentucky then shipped to the Eminence factory in Don Guang (near to Hong Kong). IMHO, this very cool driver his is the heart of the improved sound of the v.3. Our 1st run was delayed almost 3 months when the pallet of CX2008 drivers tipped on the crane unloading them in Hong Kong and fell on the dock...a total loss. So we had to start over. Now this time we had a Class D-amp power chip shortage in China so our chassis vendor lost about 20 days. So they just delivered our chassis assemblies to Eminence speaker factory last week, about 21 days late...crap. They are assembling and finishing the order as fast as they can but no way to make up this delay. I hope to have these on the boat to us by the end of next week. Then it's 3 weeks on the water, 1 week clearing the docks and customs in LA...then a few more days by truck to SW. Now I am hoping they can start shipping to you around January 14th, or so. One more possible wrinkle; the dock workers union have started a "work slow down" at the ports in LA, and they are threatening a strike. There are currently 4 ships sitting off shore that can not get a berth. To add insult to injury, the harbor authority has just last week imposed a (minimum) $800 surcharge to all inbound shipments because of this added time on their docks. All that may impact usual clearance times, as well as eat up my modest profit margins (I am praying they settle whatever that issue is in the meantime. I am sorry if this is TMI, but I felt I owed you all an honest and detailed explanation, and a peak inside my crazy world. Thank you all for this great discussion thread, I read every word. And THANK YOU for your patience with me...I am trying my best to meet this unexpected demand...and I am "all in" on this, I assure you. And again, my deepest apologies for any inconvenience this delay may have caused you.

Both would be just fine. I like the Berringer's power and 10", and the Yanaha 1/4" input jacks...other than that they seem about equal...except the price highly favors the Berringer (hate I think either would be just fine and compliment the SS. On paper, I like the Berringer's higher power and larger 10" spk, but I like the Yamaha's 1/4" input jacks. Other than that they seem about equal in features. Of course the price highly favors the Berringer (as usual), while the rep favors Yamaha. But I have to admit I haven't tried either. I think I would like to start comparing subs (those currently available and not from the local swap meet like mine), and also mixers...seems like most of you are serious about getting one or both...which greatly improve the SS performance options.

Jass, Thank you for your post, it is humbling and I am VERY grateful for your confidence and support. I am 99% sure your order will be filled in SW's late December delivery. Last I checked, SW had about 60 units on back order and we will be delivering about 84...so you should be good.

Excellent review of speaker efficiency physics. Of course I'd only add the 6dB increased efficiency of a mid horn over a cone is offset by it's more narrow dispersion. Transducers like mid horns, mag tweeters, cone woofers all have various strong and weak points, that's why we use them all! And while it's fairly easy to make comparative measurements of conventional speakers, in mono, objectively comparing any of these to an unconventional speaker like our SS, in stereo, is very difficult (if not impossible...apples and watermelons). Try to imagine a poly cone rubber mounted 8" woofer with extended LF AND HF, coupled with a mid horn driver, a neo magnetic tweeter and a high power 6.5" full range side (L-R) driver positioned out of phase, then DSP filtered to smooth all that out in a super compact cabinet to be driven by four class D amps with a 180 watt tri-amp front (L+R) system. Of course you can not possibly imagine that, it has never existed before! So I must agree with your conclusion; you just have to hear it. When you do hear it, I think you will agree with those who have; Center Point Stereo is just different (very different), than anything you have ever heard before. In other words, it is "incomparable".

My 2 cents, and worth exactly what you pay for it! I went to that site and read the specs on your passive mixer. The only one you need to pay attention to is this one: "insertion Loss: 12dB (typical)". Ooops, as expected...no gain, more pain. That means it sucks gain, and this happens with all it's faders FULL UP(w/o any passive gain reduction). Trust me, 12dB is not a small amount of loss, you will hear it and you feel it! BUT if your KB has a lot of headroom (technically speaking that is called "poop") you might be able to live with it. The SS V.3 has a pretty sensitive input stage so probably it can recover much of this 12 dB insertion loss (unlike most power amps). However the noise floor will rise +12dB no matter if the SS can recover the -12db loss. IMHO, a passive mixer is to be avoided for these reasons. But remember my perspective is delivering my SS V.3 the best signal possible (so consider the source here, I am predujiced). Of course they can "work", but certainly there will be some trade off, and hopefully gain loss is not the only thing lost (I suspect some FR as well, and probably some dynamics). I also notice output impedance is lowered as well..not a bad thing in this case...so maybe a xfmr inside? But again, at what cost? What happens to the dynamics, much less the FR with a xfmr? (basically it's lots of wire...like a really long cable!). Exactly how much loss will happen w/ this passive mixer? That will depend on the KB's output stage, some are hotter than others. A "powered" (active) mixer has many advantages, foremost being no loss of signal. It may even improve the way your KB drives an amp, especially a SS V.3. It also may add a mic input or backing track inputs useful for those smaller gigs, or just rehearsals. I like the Alesis mic pres in the Multimix series, and you will see me using them in my videos. I also like the hall reverb FX if I add a mic or maybe even on a AP. (believe me, I need all the talent enhancement I can get!). Here are a few several small format mixers (albeit w/ wall warts) on the SW site I like: @ $90 - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PowerMix3 @ $149 - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MM8USBFX

Wattage can be deceiving (and sometimes I believe it is intended to be deceiving). It certainly does NOT translate to "loudness". Case in point; ever played in a band with a guitar player using a 100 watt Marshall tube amp w/ a double stack? So then, was your 300 watt Roland amp three times louder? Or, could you even HEAR it? As a rule of thumb; Watts + Speaker efficiency = loudness. Another rule of thumb; never judge an amp's "loudness" by it's advertised power. So it's always best to listen and compare "loudness" for yourself, or barring that, listen to someone who has. The SS V.3 "loudness" is enhanced by it's tri-amped Class D Front amp system rivin a custom high efficiency woofer and 1" id horn (BTW similar to the 147/122 Leslie horn driver), coupled with it's 300 degree dispersion, and it's lifelike 3D stereo sound field. So far, it has pleasantly surprised everyone who has used it live. And, adding a sub (which also had WIDE dispersion due to the physics of bass frequencies), means your left hand bass will really rock the band. BTW, having just got my PX5s a few weeks ago, I had not yet noticed that extra stereo input feature. So that could be anything from backing tracks to a guitar player's POD or a Hammond SK1.....how cool is that! Those folks over at Casio are putting out some great stuff at terrific price points. We just downloaded and recorded some of their new piano patches for a new song writer project we are doing at APR studios, and it sounded wonderful! Really top notch!

Actually John, let me put that idea to rest right now; do not count on the SS V.4 having a built in mixer, and a bunch of inputs and/or any FX or EQ...for reasons I have already explained; just too many good small mixers on the market with all of that (and more) for $100-200. No way I can compete with that, and/or would want to burden the average guy with that extra cost. Anyway, it sounds like you'd be better served with one of those anyway. Center Point Stereo has two prime directives; 1) KISS (keep it simple stupid) so that means keep the size and cost to a minimum so anyone can afford one, and 2) provide the only the stereo sound field that works everywhere and every time...nothing sounds like CPS. I do not mean to sound prideful, but nothing can compete with our 300 degree 3D stereo sound field, it is just a fact, ask anyone who owns one. Also regarding price; you can almost buy THREE SS V.3 for the price of one of your amps mentioned here. That's one for each keyboard, and one to spare (and hey, there you go; "multiple inputs" :>) Not to mention your SK1 will actually sound like it's connected to a Leslie (without the wind). If and when I build the SS V.4, it will most likely resemble a big V.3; maybe 50% larger, 2-300% more power, and probably 50% higher in price. But as of now I have no firm plans for that. I remain focused on just trying to catch up with current V.3 demand and back order. I am embarrassed to have under estimated the demand...but I wanted to start slow and be sure the product was right. There are a lot of dead pioneers. But I completely understand you choosing to go with an "in stock" product at this point, and I don't blame you. Delivery report: the 2nd run due late December is nearly sold out now at Sweetwater and will be sold out long before it arrives. The 3rd run is in process (FYI, this is a 120 day start to finish process), due early February, and which will very likely be sold out before it arrives too. To end this constant BO situation, I just started a "triple" 4th run for March delivery. I hope that will catch up to the back orders and put some stock on Sweetwater's shelves. Meanwhile, thanks for your honesty, candid remarks and great suggestions, they are very much appreciated. I hope I am giving you the same in return...you deserve it!

Bruce, thanks for your support in past, hope to make you happy w/ the V.3, and I don't think you'll have any trouble selling the SFX 100 for $200 (they had a mic channel w/ reverb + the KB inputs....so was great for a small one man band application.) However, I don't think SW ever had those as hat model was a GC exclusive and (sadly) kinda rushed on the market to hit their Christmas targets...so we never got the time to do the acoustic modeling like we did on the later version MK2, and even moreso on the new V.3. That also goes to partially answer you question on the "improvement" of side speaker response; yes...the V.3 is better than the MK2 (which had some computer generated filter correction to smooth the FR) and WAY better than the SS V.1 and SFX 100 we made at first (which had no corrections). Also as compared to both these earlier SS units, the new V.3 has a MUCH better 8" coax (CX2008, w/ poly cone and rubber surround), and the Eminence APT50 mid driver. Both of these key components are made in USA and shipped to DG China for assembly, as opposed to the V.1, SFX100 and MK.2 that used all Chinese components. The USA parts are better, no denying it, but add cost which partially explains the higher selling price of the V.3 (that, and the market conditions from the former liquidation of all SS units at WAY under GT cost by Fender after I sold them GT in 2008, and when they decided not to continue with it) Also with regard to the V.3, we are using a better quality 6.5" Eminence speaker, and we have done MORE computer modeling and filter improvements to BOTH Front and Side systems, PLUS added 4 new Class D amps, 3 of which are used in a tri amp Front speaker design....all of which also helps both lower distortion AND smooth out the FR. NOTE TO ALL: After many "mods for friends" and subsequent requests, we will be offering a MK2 customer a DYI "V.3 component upgrade" kit. This is NOT going to turn your MK2 into a V.3, but it will be a VERY noticeable improvement and get you about 90% of the way there. Unlike the SFX100 and first SS, the MK2 does have some "modeling" to smooth out the FR, so adding the CX2008 and the L-pads to trim the MF and HF components gets you "close" to sounding like a V.3. FYI, One CPS fan did this upgrade to his MK2 years ago all on his own and waltzed into APR studios for a comparison to my original MK2, which I thought sounded pretty good. It blew mine away, not even close! So I ordered some CX2008 spks and some L-pads right then and upgraded all of mine. I did the same for my pals like Michael Boddicker....everyone love it. Then Eminence discontinued the CX2008 and that stopped. I was "retired" as a manufacture at this time and spent years trying to interest Fender or anyone to bring the SS back on the market...but everyone turned me down (and I mean nearly every name at NAMM). So, that led to my "un-retirement" and the V.3 is now back on the market from a small company of one (me). But now that the amazingly cool folks at Eminence have not only custom made the CX2008 for me, and also partnered to actually make the V.3 "turnkey" using the CX2008 and other USA components...I finally got my "Bucket List" wish; the SS V.3 is back! So now it is possible to make this component upgrade for any MK2 users out there. This "MK2.3" kit includes the formerly discontinued CX2008 8" coax woofer that Eminence makes by custom order for our new V.3, 2x inline L-pads to trim you MF and HF, and associated small parts to make it easy work...along with pictorial directions. If you also want to upgrade the MF driver to their stock APD50 and their 6.5 side speaker these are available from many sources but I do not think that will be absolutely necessary...the original components are nearly the same. I am not trying to "sell" anything here, so I will not discuss price per rules of this forum...but I thought this info could be useful to some of you with the MK2 units, but you will have to be handy with a drill (for mounting the L-pads) and connecting the wires. I should have this MK2.3 upgrade kit up on the Aspen and Associates website in a few weeks (and maybe the CPS website too) so stay tuned (no pun intended : > ).

Thank YOU for the kind comments, and there are no questions to elementary...in fact yours is interesting because I am not really sure which way is best Actually Chris, I think both ways will work fine but I am not sure which may sound best. My guess is your way is probably better. My little swap meet $50 HiFi subs in the videos only have RCA jacks and/or speaker terminals...or I might have tried it that way myself! There may be another advantage your way, if the pass thru on your sub has filtering that removes low bass from the SS signal...then it may actually sound better (check the manual). On the other hand, I am not sure if you would have matching sensitivities b/w the sub and SS input stages, as a sub is designed for a power amp and our SS for a KB up to a Power amp level. So as long as there are not any "buffering amps" that might lower impedance and/or signal levels, and thereby possibly add some noise floor, and/or change signal levels...then I think you are OK. As you have been using it this way before, that is probably a non issue. When in doubt, do what I do; try it both ways and see! Then pick the way that sounds best to your ears, those are your ultimate measurement tools. Then, please post it here so I can learn from you!

John, I am listening. Thanks for sharing! Of course most any amp can be driven into distortion, either by saturating the input stage or just simply running out of power (headroom). Although I have not experienced that (yet) in my applications. Q; I wonder, are you using a mixer b/w the KB and the SS? Then you'd have that clip indicator and be better able to set your gain structure. While an LED Clip light may not be expensive, the question is "where to PUT it"? If we put it on power amp, then it may not prevent over driving the input stage with too hot of a signal BEFORE the power stage hit max, or if we put it on the input stage the SS may "clip" before max power is achieved. The solution would be two controls; gain sensitivity and level like you'd find in a mixer. But now we are back to adding mixer "features", like extra channels and EQ...and I believe I have already addressed that earlier; so many cheap mixers out there w/ 99 stereo FX and all the rest...and you can buy one of those for a fraction of what it would add to the cost of a SS. But regarding "distortion"; if the amp is hitting it's max power we can not do much about that....everything has it's limits. But if the input is overloading from too hot of a line signal...we can always just turn it down. We didn't want to make he SS input sensitivity so low that you could not drive it to full power with a weaker KB signal, so we had to make our V.3 input sensitive enough for use with a (lower output) Keyboard. But at the same time, not so sensitive that a line mixer could distort it too easily (and the user may not be able to turn it low enough). So it's a delicate balance, and a design challenge to be sure. This is why, given the option, I would always use the SS w/ a mixer so I can clearly set my gain chain to protect the SS input stage. In that setup, the mixer balances levels of all the various sources; KB, backing tracks and vocals and should easily drive the SS to full power with it's Level set around 12 o'clock. Most KBs will need more "Level" than a mixer to do that. But not a lot more...maybe 2-3 o'clock. Perhaps some keyboards with lots of gain and/or a hotter signal level could distort the input earlier, but I have not come across that situation (yet). But again John Tweed, THANKS for a thorough report...keep them coming! It really sounds like you are dialing in the best setups already. It also sounds like you are playing in various and louder bands, what with multiple guitars, multiple horns and drummers...something even I have not dared to video (yet, stay tuned!). I mean hey, that our little eleven square inch (footprint) box with an 8" spk is cutting it for those kind of gigs is very encouraging...considering it's up against amps (and drummers) with far more "cone area" and power! I also see you like elevating it, I like that too, and in "band scenarios" usually a good idea. But as you may also notice that reduces bass response, so it's a trade off. However, and IMHO when playing in those larger bands, elevating the SS on top of a medium sized powered sub (150-200 watt w/ a 10"or 12" woofer) and set for 125Hz limit, should give you more "poop" before distortion in future, and add a floor of sonic support that will surely satisfy someone who's reference is a real Leslie, or a real 9' grand....and you will enjoy it even more!

FYI; some have asked us for Max SPL measurements, and I want to report on that progress. I enlisted the"master"; Dr. Marshall Buck to bring his computer measurement gear out to our big room at APR where last week we made some "real" measurements. FYI, Dr. Buck was the guru (JBL, Cerwin-Vega!, Alesis Monitor One, past AES president) I called on to "tune" both the MK2 and later even moreso tune the V.3 project. NOTE: The early SFX100 and Spacestation had NO modeling and some folks complained about the fidelity and especially the AP sound, but they LOVED the "gag" which worked so well on the Leslie sims. I admit they were far too boxey and "midrangey" (spl?) I will have a full SPL report on both the Front and Side speaker, and how we made the measurements on the CPS website sometime next week when Dr.Buck has finished his report. But I can tell you this; it is almost exactly what I have said it was during that 5 piece band demo we did at the Amp Show in Van Nuys a month or so ago (see JazzMammal's report on this thread). The SS V.3 average Max SPL, of both Front and Side, is around 105dB. FYI, that is layman's translation for; LOUD!

Nobody puts SS in the corner. Okay, lame joke. But seriously, as a solution for the side-firing speaker blasting out the drummer, what about placing the speaker upside down, so that the side-firing speaker is facing the opposite direction? Assuming you are elevating the whole unit (so the HF driver wouldn't be on the floor), would this be a viable solution? I have been working with these for 14 years...and I can tell you from experience; reflections are your friend. I think it sounds better as you walk away from it, especially if you are off axis. Yes, by all means; use the walls, use the corners (even better, 2 walls!). FYI, for trade shows I've even made a hinged folding 2 pane plexi back wall (about 1" high) and positioned it like a Klipsh folded horn directly behind the back side of the SS...WOW! So play around with placement guys, the more surfaces the side hits the better the interaction with the "the front speaker system, the better the "mix", and that all enhances the CPS 3D magic.

Yes, I believe this could be the case. I think the answer lies in understanding the system design and it's components. Typical of a Coax (concentric) style speaker, which mates a cone and horn style transducer, the MF 1" throat horn driver (Eminence ADP50) is roughly 6dB more efficient than it's 8" cone speaker...that means it takes a lot less power to wake it up...so it really "cuts" thru at low volume levels. By contrast, our 8" CX2008 woofer, while sweet and smooth, wakes up at higher power levels...it moves more air when it's pumpin'. This coax design is a favorite of mine, I love working with Tannoys and Genelux studio monitors in the studio, and I have Klipsh Horns driven in my MC30 McIntosh tube mono blocks in my pool room! I was blessed to inherit a pair of Urei 809 studio monitors for APR studios (driven by MC60 tube amps). I love their "time aligned" characteristics, and the "in your face" character of a horn design coupled with a good cone woofer...but there are these same trade offs...they sound best when cranked up a bit (I like playback fairly loud!) By contrast, I am NOT a fan of the "all cone" design approach, most famously seen in the Bose speakers. This approach basically arrays multiple (cheap) car speakers that have a peaked midrange character (no lows or highs) compensated by a heavy dipped EQ midrange filer that "flattens" the overall response. All good on paper, but this approach is extremely inefficient so they need 20x the power to get he same SPL as compared to an efficient design like a JBL 2 way, or a Tannoy coax. When the speaker requires SO much electronics to compensate for their horrible frequency response, then I am basically listening to an EQ...which just bothers me. By contrast, the coax approach, even a 2 or 3 way approach, just sounds more natural to me. And also, tube amps LOVE efficient speakers (and as you may know, I favor tube amps :>) I am not alone in this evaluation, and that's probably why you rarely see a Bose speaker in a recording studio control room and never in a mastering room. Of course, there are obvious advantages to the Bose approach, cost; making power amps and EQs is MUCH cheaper than making highly efficient speakers. The Bose approach provides an extremely high BOM to sale price ratio (read; profits!), something like 40 to 1, where as a typical efficient speaker approach like my SS is around to 5 to 1. Also worth noting, all 4 transducer components are driven by Class D amps. Interestingly, Class D amps like to be cranked, and their THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) spec actually IMPROVES at higher power levels (unlike conventional amps). Finally, the total system is "tuned" to be "flat", it's design is kinda a cross between a pro PA system (w/ it's tri-amped power design), and a studio monitor (w/ it's computer modeled filters to smooth out the component and cab package..BTW, the side peaker is also "modeled"). We "tuned" this box to be "optimum" at "medium to high" power levels (say 40%+), so it may sound a but thinner at low levels and if you are playing at lower levels, and you have a mixer w/ EQ, you may like to boost the bass a bit. I think we've all had a home Hi Fi system with a "loudness" switch, this is designed to boost low bass (and upper highs) for use at lower listening levels. So this is really nothing new. Hey, maybe I should add a loudness contour switch on my next design? Naw, you guys have a mixer w/ and EQ for that! I like to keep the product simple to operate, the less knobs the better. I've had many suggestions for "features" to add like DSP trims (vocals, instruments, ect.) and/or extra channels and/or stereo FX...and I can't argue it would make my speaker more versatile and attractive...but it would also raise the price, significantly! Believe me I listen your many "feature" suggestions and I have thought about them all. Then I look at the buffet of $150 stereo mixers on the market with 6-8 channels, 3 band parametric EQ on each channel, and 99 stereo DSP FX...and I sit down until the thought goes away.

OK, chiming in here. First off, let me clear something up; the SSV.3 really doesn't "need" a sub for the job it was designed to do...it sounds very good in the lower register "as is". Yes it starts to roll off about 3dB per octave @ 100Hz, but this is no big deal for a box of this size...in fact it has a surprising GOOD bass response! Of course, if size were no issue (which it is), and it had a much larger box, it could go down smooth to 60Hz. But size was a target spec so that's my trade off. The 8" speaker can easily go flat to 60Hz, in the right cab design, but that is a mute point (3dB mute anyway : > ). The sub out is there as an option for the really big bottom fans...again in most band situations the bass player is rattling that area already, and a sub sonic is lost (and BTW, IMHO, 100Hz IS bass, and not low mid!) Look guys, we are all geeking out about "which sub", what "size", how much "power", which "xover point" and all that. But frankly IMHO we are talking about that last 2%! In fact, 98% of your patches do not NEED "flat to 20Hz". The many players who've actually used the V.3 on stage by now have come to realize; V.3 is just fine w/o a sub....REALLY!! IE: I recently demoed the V.3 to Leland Sklar at Michael Boddicker's Moog foundation charity gig a few weeks ago (he was in the band that night...amazing band). Well, I think you may agree that Lee knows something about bass. So we got to talking about subs, and right out of the box Leland says "I hate Subs!". I do see his point, and I think subs, when too dominant, can be counter productive. And if used, it should be sparingly under 100Hz, and no more than 125Hz. Using too much sub overshadows the great sound of a well tuned tri-amped design. So my advice is, go easy because a sub can make your KB sound just too "boomy". So anyway back to my Leland demo; I was in Michael's studio, set up in the piano room w/ his C7. Not too small and a nice sounding room. I had my little $50 swap meet Polk audio 10" swap meet sub under my V.3, but (as usual) just turned on a hair. For this initial demo I usually use Steely Dan's Babylon Sister to show off that big dopler Rhodes image...and then do the "with/without" the sub demo...placing the sub back on the floor when I unplug the sub. It is not a drastic difference, and while I do like "a touch" of sub for full bands, it sounds just fine w/o it. Leland actually liked the sound of the V.3 better w/o the sub! Another thing to keep in mind, unlike 99.9% of all other keyboard amps on the market and/or that you have ever used...my SS V.3 is TRI-AMPED! This GREATLY reduces the negative effect a low bass dynamic from your LHB can have the midrange and HF components. (aka: IMD, intermodulation distortion). The triamped design is what produces it's "tight undistorted" bass and unusual full range clarity. Again, the sub doesn't "fix" anything here, and the SS V.3 bass response is NOT BROKEN! But we gave the option and a sub can help add a bit more SPL, when needed for those larger gigs. But IMHO a sub should be "felt, but not "heard"....and my $50 HiFi sub has been plenty for 15% of situations where I needed one.