rogs
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Posts posted by rogs
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Seemed a slightly unusual title?... for those of us in the UK the 'Beano' is a kids weekly comic book....
Goes back at least 70 years! ...🙂
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One other aspect is that - being a Yamaha 'synth' keybed - the YC61 has 159mm octaves instead of the 164mm octaves used by most (all?) of its competitors.
Personally I'm fine with the narrower keys, but I know some folk can find it a bit strange.
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I've had my YC61 for almost 4 years and have not had any real keybed issues. I like the action.
I do find the sideways movement of the black keys a bit disconcerting - and that does make the black keys a bit noisier than the white ones - but it's only 'nit picking'.
It hasn't affected the performance of the instrument.
I don't think Yamaha is likely to do much more with this keybed..... The YC73 and 88 both use weighted keybeds -- which I find a bit strange for an organ based instrument - especially for the YC73?
I think this was Yamaha's first vernture into a waterfall keybed -- could well be their last?
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This group has some knowledgable Hammond 'Techs' .... https://www.facebook.com/groups/467940163416921
(It's a private group so you do need to join)
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Some songs are blatant copies of others - and usually end up in court!
(I'm thinking of George Harrison's 'My Sweet Lord' and the Chiffons 'He's so fine' ..... or Richard Rodger's 'Mountian Greenery' and Lionel Bart's 'Fings ain't what they used to be'.. ) but the similarity here seems a lot more tenuous?....
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I'm guessing this guy has done just that with Yamaha -- for real!
Looks like he's chosen a Montage 6, a YC61, and a CP88 (or that YC88 ?)
Probably what they've told him to 'promote' of course, but not a bad selection, IMHO...Sort of what I would have chosen
I see he's put the YC61 through a real Leslie though.....
https://youtu.be/gScT34vshEI?t=1913
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I was working in a hotel band back in the 70s, here in the UK.
We were a Union band and duly paid the MU fees . The Union rate was increased for some of the Christmas gigs one year, and the hotelier refused to pay the extra.
We contacted our local Union rep, who advised that there was not much he could do, and we would be best advised to 'get the best rate we could'.
Didn't bother to pay any further Union fees after that....
It was often siad that the MU had very little 'clout' outside London, and I think that was probably true - certainly back in the day.
Not sure what it's like these days?...
There are so few local live bands compared to back then, I suspect the MU still has very little influence outsde the big cities...
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My biggest gripe with wall warts is the number of different types available.
OK, the output DC voltage and current capabilites need to be matched to the device to be powered, but there are a bewildering number of different connection options that also need to match.
• 2.1 mm 'power plug' connctors
• 2.5 mm 'power plug' connectors
• Various other diameter 'power plug' connectors (less common)
• Centre terminal positive
• Centre terminal negative
Some wall warts come with a selection of output volatges available , and some with 'reversible' power plug connections, but these tend to be pretty unreliable in my experience.
Shame there doesn't seem to have been any attempt at standardisation?
You can bet your life that when you need to replace a wall wart urgently the only 'spares' lying around will have the wrong output voltage -- and/or the wrong size/polarity connector!
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Couple this up with an old Yamaha HC2 organ as a MIDI controller (usually one or two to be found on Ebay, at around £50 or less) and you'd have a pretty good Hammnond M.100 type 'clone' for less than £100.... not bad!
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I do wish the first instrument I had learnt was the piano. I leant to read treble clef for violin and clarinet. When I tried to learn piano some time later, I had real trouble with reading bass clef. I had quite a good ear, so quickly picked up busking..... The result of course is a poor technique - particulary the left hand.
Had I learnt to read 2 clefs right from the start, and maybe acquired some 'proper' piano technique as a young child? - things might have been different.
I do think that if you come across a really good keys player, almost inevitably they will have started playing keys when they were pretty young.....
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I use just two pedals -- A Yamaha FC4 which I use for both sustain and Vent speed switching.
(I made little interface to allow the pedal to do both jobs - (some notes HERE ) )
And I use a Yamaha FC7 as an expression and/or volume control.....
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I've had mine for 3 years now. No problems with the keys so far. Only used at home though...
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6 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:
As I mentioned in my original post I purchased a momentary switch for under two dollars which allows for a single push to execute slow/fast. I installed that switch in the pedal. The switch cost under $2. For the BURN this functionality is a menu driven setting (momentary vs. latched switch). Because the BURN and the Vent are wired differently for slow/fast/stop execution I had to purchase two 384 foot pedals and wire each one to accomodate each pedal. I marked them accordingly to ensure I am using the correct foot pedal depending on the which sim i'm using.
Ah, I missed the bit about the switch itself being changed in your first post .. sorry about that.
For my own use I didn't want to use a second footswitch - just for Vent speed control - so I use my Yamaha FC4 sustain pedal as both a sustain pedal and a speed change switch. Problem with that is that the FC4 polarity is wrong - so I made a simple interface to deal with that problem.....Works very well.
(Some notes on that project here: https://www.vent.jp137.com ) Only suitable for those who like to have a little 'dabble' with electroincs though!
My answer to the OP's query above doesn't involve any mods or soldering at all to the 'off the shelf' items I suggested.
Some folk like to do their own mods -- others are not so keen....
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1 hour ago, Delaware Dave said:
.........an fsc384 would be even simpler since the stop functionality doesnt have to be wired.........
The problem with the FSC384 is that it has a latching switch. Activating the speed change on the Vent (don't know about the Burn?) requires a normally open switch to be momentarily closed. With a latching switch that means pressing one to close the switch, pressing again to release it and then pressing a third time to re-activate the closing contact required.
So - with the possible exception of the very first time - you would need to press the switch twice every time you want to change speed.
Probably not an ideal solution, I would think? --- Better to use a momentary closing switch......
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The footswitch you mention is a latching footswitch, fitted with a mono jack socket.
So two problems when using it with a Vent:
• You would need to press the switch twice everytme you wanted to change speed.
• It would change the speed from fast to stop (not slow) when fitted with an external mono jack lead plugged into the jack socket on the switch.
(That switch comes with no lead)
Using other parts from Hosa you could do it with:
•A momentary 'normally open' footswitch type FSC502 (not FSC-501 or FSC 503))
• A breakout adaptor type Ypp-117
(Plugging the footswitch into one socket of the adaptor will switch from 'fast to slow', and into the other from fast (or slow) to 'stop' )
Any other 'normally open' momentary footswitch would do.
Other types of similar adaptor would also do - although you need make sure you choose a 'stereo plug to 2 x mono socket' type and not a 'stereo headphone' adaptor (which is a stereo jack plug to 2 x stereo jack sockets )
You'd only need to tap the footswitch once to activate each speed change, with a momentary 'normally open' switch.
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There is of course things going in the other direction --- playing everything live, even when the original was never designed to be played that way....
'Sgt. Pepper' was a studio album - it was never intended to be performed live..
Then along came The Analogues :
Not exactly something to do when the budget is a bit tight though!
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I have a guitarist/ singer friend who played in a 4 piece - with keys - for years, but just does solo gigs these days.
He tells me that many venues simply won't pay for a band anymore...
He dislikes using a computer on stage, and uses a modified multi zoned 'looper' pedal to store his backing tracks.
He controls it with a simple 'one tap' on/off footswitch. Works pretty well.
He has made the comment that when solo keys players use backing tracks on stage, some people seem to view that as 'cheating' - presumably having seen arranger style keyboards in amateur over the years?
When a guitarist uses backing tracks, people seem to accept it more - probably because they can see the guitar being played 'for real'?
In truth of course, most punters don't care one way or the other !
Even the bigger dinner dance/ weddings gigs seem to have changed.
Often now they will employ a solo player - a guitarist or a pianist - to play for dinner, or the early reception.
They then pack up and go home, and hand over to a 'DJ' for the after dinner - or wedding 'evening do' - dance music...
Bit different from the 70s, when many hotels in resort towns here in the UK would employ a resident 3 or 4 piece band all year round....
We even wore evening dress in those days!
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LIke Delaware Dave, I built my own cheap and simple interface for speed control.
Mine allows me to use my sustain pedal - both as a sustain pedal and a speed control for the Vent.
Means I can put the Vent anywhere.....
(Some notes here: https://www.vent.jp137.com )
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I started on my keyboard 'journey' way back in 1968.
Since then I would suggest there have been relatively few what might be described as 'groundbreaking' electronic keyboard advances...
Lots of revisions, additions and amalgamations, but few ' game changers'.
I offer the following, as a suggested list of the real game changers over the years:
• Hammond organ (with Leslie of course!)
• Rhodes electric piano (and perhaps Wurlitzer, to a lesser extent?)
• Minimoog
• Solina string ensemble (lots of derivatives since)
• Prophet 5 polysynth (and other analogue polysynths of that time - Roland, Oberheim etc)
(I should perhaps give the CS80 a special mention.... Nothing quite like it before or since - but really still just a comprehensive analogue polysynth)
• DX7 ( and other digital synths of that time - D50 etc)
• Fairlight sampled sound synthesier (lots of subsequent derivatives of that since of course !)
Since then, most other electronic keyboards seem to have been variations, derivatives or combinations of the above 'instruments' ....
Plus of course better and better simulations of acoustic pianos, and electronic simulations of electromechanical pianos ( Rhodes, Wurli... )
But nothing truly 'new', sound wise, for many years?
(....Lights blue touch paper and retires!
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6 hours ago, stoken6 said:
Simply because PCs have multiple USB ports, all powered, which makes connecting multiple devices (a MIDI interface and a fader box) easy. Ipad would require (maybe) a lightning/USB adapter, and a USB hub, and a PSU for the hub, etc. All the stuff we went through in the other thread.
But you can confirm that B3X on iPad can accept note input from a controller and simultaneously drawbar input from a separate device? If so, that's good news.
Cheers, Mike.
As Baldwin Funster has already replied, it should all be possible......
It is essential to program this type of controller with the correct information of course.
The HC2 has fixed MIDI output channels for the Note codes... channel 1 for upper, channel 2 for lower, and channel 3 for pedal.
So the B3X software needs to copy that by setting to correct channel numbers from the MIDI page on the B3X display.
The 'Program change' channel I've chosen to use is MIDI channel 16....... So that is the primary channel selected for most codes transmitted by the controller.
There are exceptions which need to be considered....
I've chosen to assign the 8 buttons beneath the faders to select the first 4 'reverse color' preset keys on each manual.
Those are 'note codes', not 'control codes', so they need to be assigned to the appropriate keyboard channel (MIDI channel 1 or 2)
The attached photo is a screen grab of 3 pages the controller editor software.
The 1st image shows the 'Scene 1 Common' selected for allocations to channel 16.
The 2nd image shows the 'Group Common 1' selected for 'Note C1' on MIDI channel 1. Group Commons 2,3 and 4 are set the same - for Notes C#, D and D#) (All upper manual controls )
The 3rd image shows the 'Group Common 5' selected for 'Note C1' in MIDI channel 2. Group Commons 6,7 and 8 are set the same - for Notes C#, D and D# (all lower manual controls)
So the controller puts out 'Note' data and 'CC' data on the MIDI channel it's programmed to transmit on.
The drawbar data is programmed to be transmitted from Scenes 2 and 3 ( not shown in these photos) with codes chosen to match the ones in the B3X list (and inverted to get the drawbar faders to work the right way round !). Those are all allocated to channel 16 as well..
The keyboard note data is of course derived for the HC2 MIDI data out on channels 1,2 and 3.
All working from 2 separate USB connections....
A bit fiddly to set up, but quite powerful once it's done!
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2 hours ago, stoken6 said:
How are you simultaneously sending HC2-MIDI and "£40 fader-box" MIDI to B3-X? Do you need a merge device, or a USB hub, or something?
Regards, Mike.
The HC2 only has MIDI DIN teminals, so I first connect it to one of THESE Then the USB out from that into the computer.
I do actually use a powered USB hub, but it you have enough USB sockets that's not strictly essential.
The Midi controller is USB powered, and simply plugs into another USB socket.
The B3X has the option to either select any one MIDI input or 'ANY' - which connects all it can find..... That's what I'm using here.
The controller is programmed so that the fader, switches and rotary controls output the required CC codes on channel 16
Upper and lower keyboard, and pedal outputs from the HC2 are fixed MIDI note output codes on channels 1, 2 and 3 respectively.
The 'inverse colour' key presets are actually also note codes, so I've used those to control some of the buttons below the faders.
The controller has 4 'scene' buttons, and I currently use:
Scene 1 for Leslie speed and brake control, vibrato settings (all 6 positions on a single rotary control) and percussion on'off and harmonic select.
Scene 2 has the faders programmed for the upper drawbars.
Scene 3 has the faders programmed for the lower drawbars.
I use 2 of the rotary encoders on scenes 2 and 3 for pedal drawbar control.
There is a rotary encoder at the top left which is pre-programmed with program change codes, and that can be used to select presets -- although it is a bit fiddly and critcal.
By sheer luck the HC2 has 5 preset 'registration memory' buttons which output program change codes. Those are a useful and easy way to select the first 5 presets.
That particular MIDI controller appears online in several guises.... The one I use is a UK only device badged 'Sub Zero'
Other variations include THIS ONE ...... I'm sure there are others......
So, for not a lot of money it's possible to get quite a lot of control over the B3X functions.... and the HC2 seems to work reliably, even though it is 30 years old.
I've had mine from new, but you can often find them on Ebay for around £50- £100.
Apart from replacing 'sticky' pedal rubber spacers in mine about 10 years ago, I've never had any other faults.
And they easily split into 4 managable parts, so are easy to fit into a standard small hatchback car -- which can be useful!
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4 hours ago, ChazKeys said:
I am interested in these Yamaha organs as they do seem a neat alternative. Does it trigger at the high point? Of course another keyboard based alternative is the Roland A800 Pro. I had one for a while and it was great for B3-x and VB3. 9 faders and big chunky drum pads for Vibrato and Percussion tabs. Very fast and light avtion too.
It's not a particularly high trigger point -- about half way down the key travel - (about 5mm measured at the very front of the key - Total key travel is about 10mm)
But it's an organ action.... It's not 'semi weighted' or anything like that. And there is only the one contact point.... It's light and fast.
Two other quick points..... My HC2 dates from around 1990. The price at that time was around £900, which was not cheap then!
Back in that era key actions did not seem to rely so much on moulded key clusters, and seemed to 'feel' much better than many modern key actions..... ( Subjective opinion of course.)
I've routed the B3X through my other keyboards to compare.... The HC2 is easier and 'faster' than either my MOX6 or YC61 -- and of course much faster than my weighted P.105!
One other thing that some folk find important -- others don't.
The HC2 has 'standard' Yamaha synth width keys which - at 159mm per ocatave - are slightly smaller than the more common 164mm octave found on most keybeds (and on Yamaha weighted piano actions).
Nobody seems to know quite why Yamaha have chosen to make their synth and organ keys slighty narrower than normal? - but they have!
Doesn't bother me - in fact, I think I prefer it, now I'm used to it.
Simple MIDI output structure on these older organs -- Channel 1: upper keys -- Channel 2: lower keys -- Channel:3 pedals.
Which suits the B3X perfectly
The MIDI controller is programmed for channel 16 for the control CC code outputs.
Also, by sheer luck the 5 preset 'Registration Memory' keys also output the Program Change MIDI codes for addressing the B3X presets 1 thru 5..... Very useful!
So, when used together with this simple programmable MIDI controller, you can create a very usable 'clonewheel' spinet, without needing to adjust B3X parameters 'on screen'
And quite cheaply as well - which is nice!
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1 hour ago, stoken6 said:
At least it has 9 drawbars, unlike the current Korg Nanocontrol.
Cheers, Mike.
Yes, for the money it's pretty good..... 8 fader controllers don't really cut it when it comes to controlling Hammond clones...
OK, it's a bit 'cheap and cheerful' compared to some of the other controllers being describd here, but it's fully programmable, so it can control quite a lot of functions.
Even the (non pogrammable) rotary switch (top left) sends out program control codes which can be used to select presets!
If you can afford to wait for IK to have one of their (apparantely random) sales, the software is only about £50, as I recall.
Using a Yamaha MIDI enabled spinet organ from the 90s as a controller (usually around £50 on Ebay) and we're talking a really cost effective 'clonewheel' organ...
Organs - like the HC2 I'm using - do not use velocity sensitive keyboards, and they're not weighted at all.... So a light, fast, organ action also helps to improve the package.
Nearest I've ever come to owning a real M.102. ( The M series organs were often called the 'baby B' -- Not quite a B3 sound wise - but close!
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I use my old Yamaha HC2 to control the B3x software, and being on low budget thought I'd try one of THESE as a MIDI controller. Only a cheap device (£40) but works really well.
9 drawbar faders, and the buttons and knobs can be configured to suit other controls, by changing the preprogrammed CC codes.
I use it for all 6 vibrato and chorus settings (plus on and off) - Percussion on and off - Leslie speed and brake - 8 reverse key presets - etc. All sent out on channel 16.
I Velcro it to the top left of the organ console (see photo).
I think that particular version is a UK item only, but it's the same device as this: https://www.worlde.com.cn/static/upload/file/20210318/1616046348187195.pdf which seems to be available pretty much anywhere....
Not exactly 'top of the range', but it works well - and sure beats using the mouse on the screen with the PC version of B3x!
Your Longest Musical Relationship
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
I still get to play together with an old guitarist friend, who I first met in the 1960s. We played together in our first 'rock' band in 1964.
Mind you, here was a gap of almost 50 years in the middle where we had lost touch we each other!
Still playing some of the same tunes actually... 🙂