Adan
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Everything posted by Adan
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That's how I feel as well. Well, it's been a few days and a couple pages since we beat this issue to death, maybe we should do it all over again. Anybody who can go around telling everyone what THEY would do on OTHER people's gigs just has too much time on their hands. But I agree with those who say the VR-09 may not be the keyboard to bring for an organ-centric gig. Not only is the action non-waterfall, but the black keys are small enough that many organ licks just don't feel right. By contrast, I think the Korg Krome keys are a little bit better for organ playing. I'm thinking of the VR as being useful for when I sub with pop cover bands, where organ is a small part of the palette.
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I've been buying keyboards and hauling them around to gigs for decades, both the high end and the cheap stuff, and it's kind of amazing to me how little trouble I've had with anything malfunctioning or breaking. The biggest headaches I ever had were with the mechanical parts of the many rhodes I've owned, and the wonky electronics of the Hammond chop I used in the late 90's. Because these budget boards look and feel cheap, it's easy to think they're susceptible to breaking, and yet experience (mine, at least) doesn't bear that out.
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You may have coined a phrase there: "clone with benefits."
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The past couple pages of discussion has been amongst players with considerable gigging experience, in my case 35 years. We're all pretty capable of figuring out what sort of rig, or rigs, might suits our needs. When someone says "why do you need that board?" they're questioning that judgment, and I take that sort of comment personally. Is that a big deal? No, of course not. But at the same time, it's not very productive. Discussing what the VR-09 can or can't do is productive.
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Before judging someone as lazy, walk a mile in their shoes. Craig can speak for himself, but for me, if I have to work a 9-hour day, come home for a couple hours to cook dinner, change diapers, walk the dog, before going off to play a gig, then come home and start the whole cycle again, who knows, it might just make sense for me to do it with one lightweight keyboard that gets the job done. On a day like that, every minute and every bit of energy I have counts. If only I had the luxury of being lazy! I'm in a situation either I have super easy logistics, or I give up playing in bands for the next few years. The VR-09 seemed like it might be a good solution, but issues with the OS may or may not be deal breakers. If I can't switch the sustain pedal from upper to lower on a registration basis, that's a big PITA. Of course I'll still give it an audition when it comes out.
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After reading the manual, I can think of 4 or 5 things I'd want them to change before they even think of addressing the output panning. And they will probably not do any of it. I think it still might be a viable keyboard for a pro, for rehearsals or maybe the real small time gigs, but to me, it is the inflexibility of the operating system, not the quality of the sounds or leslie sim, that put a ceiling on its potential.
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Another troubling point: assignment of sustain pedal is global, so it can be either upper or lower or both, but not per registration. Seems there's a lot of bad news in the manual.
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I'm going to optimistically hope that the effects chain is independant from the rotary and C/V effects, so that at least you can play organ on one side of the split and have, say, a phased rhodes on the other. A concern I have after skimming the manual is whether the expression pedal can be programmed to affect only the organ sound. If it changes the volume of both sounds in a split even when one is organ, that would be really lame.
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Dave not every gig pays really well!! Does that mean I don't play it? Personally I would prefer to play it and perhaps compromise on the equipment I bring! We all play for the love of music, but also the cash obviously, if for no other reason than to fuel our GAS. I enjoy playing whether it's a large corporate venue for $500 each or a filler gig at a local bar $75 each. However, do I want to drag out my $7000 Mojo + Kronos +2QSC rig for $75...? No way, for that cash it's hardly worth taking the chance on something getting damaged. Would I play the same gig with a VR-09 that's worth $999.. you bet? If I'm playing a great club that pays well, I wouldn't compromise, they would get the best I can afford. But for a small venue or a low paying job, I would definately compromise on the equipment I bring. Let's not forget that everything other than a real Hammond B3 is a compromise to some extent, and there are various reasons for that compromise, size and weight being a key factor.. life is full of compromises and if I can get close to my ideal sound with a 12 pound, $999 keyboard, why the hell not! Over the years, I have been complemented on my sound and my playing with virtually every iteration of Hammond Clone I've ever used from my first Bx3 and Hammond XM1 right up to the Mojo I perform with today.. Something tells me that it's not going to stop if I was to make a compromise and perform the odd small gig with this VR-09. Hate to break it to you, Craig... But most of the people in clubs who rave about how great the sound is on a VK7, XK3... And certainly the VK09 can't tell the difference between a B3 and an accordion. What they are raving about is your playing. They don't know that you are compromising..., but you do.... You are one contrary-wise fellow, Dave. It's always entertaining, and occasionally useful.
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I was gonna say, I've made a lot of money this way. If you can get 'er done with a thousand bucks and 12 lbs of rig, you might think of that as coming out ahead in the game.
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As I think I said earlier in this thread, it's going to be important to play this keyboard before deciding if it's a passable clone, even as a backup/rehearsal/mini-gig variety. I know the action is going to be a bad compromise for organ, but at the very least, the real time controls have to be reasonably accessible and work well, and the expression pedal has to be a reasonable facsimile of a swell.
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The VK organ is good enough for 90% of the gigs I have ever done, the remaining 10% being the very organ-centric gigs, and 10% is probably a higher figure than what the typical VR09 purchaser will do. When I say "good enough," I mean it's good enough that the average listener can close their eyes and imagine they're listening to a real B3. If the average listener were Ham-on-Dave, it would be a different story, but that's not the world we live in.
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This implies that you noticed sonic differences between the VR09 and the VK8m. Is that correct? Can you elaborate? I would have assumed the VR has the VK engine stuffed into it, but maybe not.
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Just because keyboards don't look and feel like they did in 1973 doesn't mean they're not robust. It's simply not the case that Roland keyboards, even the cheaper ones, are falling apart left and right. I've been flogging my Gaia for quite awhile, and it keeps on ticking.
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I seem to recall you were in a similar hurry to know everything about the Casio WX-whatever, after it was announced. Is there some project deadline that this relates to? The VR-09 is starting to interest me. If I can sell my Kronos and SK1, and just use something like this for the 1-2 gigs a month when I'm subbing, I'm ahead of the game. But I will have to play the thing first, there's no substitute for that. For instance, if the expression pedal doesn't work smoothly for organ sounds (i.e., if it is more workstation-like than clone-like), then the VR is not for me.
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Yeah, that's pretty critical if this is to be at all taken seriously as a clone, even a lesser one. Perhaps it works by, for instance, holding down the percussion button and parameters popping up on the screen. Given that it's Roland, I suspect we'll get answers soon, and there will be units in every GC within a few months at most.
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It's a gigging tool. People who are gigging often make compromises. I don't know of any action in a sub-15 lb keyboard that I'd call "good."
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Krome and the VR09 both $999. The Krome is vastly superior in terms of what's underneath the hood, but the Roland is far more user-friendly for the unsophisticated player. If the Roland keybed is from from the Juno 50/80, that would give it another advantage. I'm thinking of downsizing my rig to match my reduced gigging activity, and the Krome is very tempting. This VR09, not so much.
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Stacking the VR09 on top of the RD64 looks so natural, you'd think they had that in mind with the designs, and if so, then a stand to accomodate both would make a lot of sense. The WS 550 with the Orant mod would work perfectly also.
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If the VR09 didn't have the characteristic Roland real estate on the left end, this thread would be more easily readable!
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Could be an interesting entry-level keyboard if the price is right. I see it as being in the same niche as the Juno series -- unlikely to be sought after by the kind of players who inhabit this forum, but more suited to, say, high schoolers or maybe serious musicians who are dabbling in keys. The previous VR keyboards were priced out of those people's range. They were priced as serious do-it-all keyboards, but didn't compete well in that market. This one should be priced to compete at a lower strata.
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There are lots of ways to exercise, I think the important thing is to establish a routine and stick to it. Plan on working out 7 days a week, maybe you'll miss 2 and still get 5 in. Make it a priority. Once you build up inertia, healthy living is addictive. You get into some very positive reinforcing cycles, such as sleeping better, which gives you more energy, which helps you to work out more, you start thinking about how what you eat affects your ability to workout, and this naturally gravitates you towards better eating. I run 3-4 days a week, swim in the ocean 1-2 days, and have a rowing ergometer (Concept II) in my garage for days when I cant' fit anything else in. The rowing machine is great because you can get a tremendous workout in 15-20 minutes once you get a handle on the technique.
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Tee of at 4:20? Ha! Nothing personal, I'm just riffing on the stereotypical disc golfer image.
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Yeah, that seems odd. I suppose it's a little like running with weights and then taking the weights off to race. But since it's a very different running style . . . I don't get it.
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I have switched to minimalist running shoes and am so glad I did. Two months into it, but so far so good, and thinking I will never go back to regular running shoes. "minimalist" is the term applied to the new breed of running shoe that basically gives you no cushion, just a thin bit of grippy rubber between your foot and the ground. The theory behind them is that it returns you to a more natural running style where you land on the ball of your foot and use your natural shock absorbing system, rather than landing on the heel of a running shoe and relying the cushioning of the shoe. A few different companies make them, but I've been using the Vibram "5 fingers," which is probably the most popular model and definitely the most funny-looking. I run 15-20 miles a week, not a lot by real runner's standards. But I was having more and more problems with pain in my feet, not so much while running, but all the rest of the time. With the 5 fingers, I have no foot pain at all, and most of my other running aches and pains have gone away as well. This alone made the switch worth it. But beyond that, running is just more fun. I feel more connected to the ground and something about this stokes the joy of running for me. You're supposed to start small and gradually increase your endurance, because your putting stress on a new set of muscles and connectors. I gave myself about 6 weeks to work up to my usual mileage. I suspect that minimalist shoes might not be good for attaining top performance in time/distance. I think I'm running a little bit slower in them. The difference is most noticeably on downhill grades, where regular shoes allow you to clompclomp landing on your heel with abandon. Without that cushioning, you really have to back off on the downhill shoosses. I don't care, because I don't run for performance.
