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Sorry I'm late to this Phred, but congrats on the marathon. I've run several marathons, and the first one was in...3:58! 1988 Columbus Marathon! Mine was a bit different than yours as I was running with a group of 5 guys, and they all wanted to break 4 hours. We stayed on pace (slightly under) the whole way. It's a great accomplishment though. You've suggested you're going to try to beat that time next time, and assuming it's not a crazy hard course or with crazy weather, you WILL be able to.

Yeah, thanks...he's quite the athlete. He IS about to turn 12 in 4 more days though, so perhaps a little less impressive. His stated goal right now is to become the best distance runner in the "history of the world". That's quite a task! When I was 11, I wanted to be the centerfielder for the Cincinnati Reds. I'm eager to see how he will do in cross country. Middle schoolers here run 2 miles, and I think a reasonable goal for him after a summer and fall of training is to get under 11:45 or so. We'll see. I understand your feelings about the marathon. Pretty sure that is common to all of us the first time. It is quite an accomplishment, so look forward to that. If you can do 34km without too much trouble, you can manage the slightly over 42km that is the marathon distance. I'm eager to hear how it all goes. Good luck!

Phred, I haven't been reading here lately (just too busy with life these days), so I missed your two recent PRs in the 10k and half marathon. Congrats! I've been running a little more than normal recently, so that's good. Ran 3 miles last night...right now, it's a steady diet of 3 milers. Hoping my calf won't blow up on me. Took my two kids (11 year old son and 15 year old daughter) to a 5K last weekend (my daughter's high school track season has ended), and in a field of 500, she won the women's race in 22:36, just off her PR of 22:29, and he won his age group and finished 7th overall in 21:31. The course had a big hill that had to be run twice, accounting for slower overall times, so both kids were very happy with their times. My son hasn't been on a run of any length in over a month, so for him to run 21:31 on a hilly course with basically no training, I thought was outstanding. He IS very fit and active though...he uses the trampoline every single day for a couple hours even, so it's not like he's a couch potato. He'll run cross country for the first time on a team in the fall in 7th grade, and he's looking forward to that. Training for cross country for both of them begins May 28. Love this running thread.

Welcome to my world ..I hate to be the bearer of good news ( ) , but come back in 10 years or so ( you're early to middle 40's ? ). It only gets easier...not. I'm 2 months and 7 days south of 59. Seriously, you just have to take the attitude of it is what it is, I have to be thankful I'm still out here doing it, burning calories/fat, keeping the pipes (colon) clean, getting the heart-rate up and basically staying fit. I tell myself that on every step of every run these days. I'm 45. I'm pretty sure my regular training days (as far as running goes) are over. It's too bad, because I used to love going for a 12 mile run on a Wednesday evening and then 18-20 on Saturday. Oh well. I've run a LOT of miles in my 45 years. Gonna have to be cross training from here on out...something I don't like as much, but I need to make sure I do.

Yeah, those tables don't work out too well for most people. Gives you an idea, but you can't count on it. Some people are just better at 5,000 meters than they are at the marathon (that would be me). My PR in the 5,000 suggests a time of about 2:26 in the marathon (according to one table I have), and I never did that -- 2:55 was my best. All those tables and calculators are different too. If you go here - http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/index.php/site/calculator ...it says a 46:01 10k predicts a 1:42:24 half marathon. It also predicts a 5k that is SLOWER than what Phred has run. Fun to look at, but not terribly accurate. Based on your 46 min. 10K, I was looking at the corresponding Half Marathon time in the "Road Racing for Serious Runners" book by Pete Pfitzinger & Scott Douglas. It says 1:43:17 and Marathon time of 3:38:54..fwiw. When I used to be heavily into racing and being competitive, I found that a lot of the "corresponding tables" different people wrote never matched up for me. I was faster in the shorter distances like 5& 10 K, but couldn't hold the pace in the longer races like the Marathon. Basically I don't think I had the mental toughness to hold pace after mile 20 and gut it out.. My strongest race distance always was the Half for sure. In any case your 16.1 miler will hold you in good stead for all up coming races this season. You'll get that added mental toughness of dealing with the extreme headwind. Don't ever discount those kind of efforts-they are to be filed under "quality runs" ! You're at or approaching the optimum age for distance running/racing. Use each hard effort as a stepping stone to the next race. Don't go out too fast. Find that groove that you feel you can hold for the 13.1. Good luck on Sunday and let us know how it turns out.

Sounds like you've got a good plan there.

Sorry I did respond sooner, but congrats on that 10k PR! I knew you were in shape enough to do it. Lowering it even further is well within your ability too based on that 21:02 5k or yours. My running is very hit or miss these days (continuing calf problems). I ran a mile on the track the other day with my son (he went 2 miles) in 8:00 (actually a mile...I started at the mile marker, not the 1600 meter mark). I was trying just to do even laps in 2:00 and I did, but it wasn't super easy. I could probably run 6:30 if I went all out, but that's about it. Man that's horrible.

Cool. Looking forward to the report.

Fine to take baby steps toward that 45 minute 10k goal, but I really do think you COULD do it this time. Where you'll get yourself into trouble is if you go through the 5k too fast in 21:30 or something like that; then you'll likely crash and burn. If 45 minutes really is the goal for this race, you should shoot for halfway at about 22:25 or so. It IS a race after all. If you go out TOO conservatively, you won't be able to make up the time on the back half. Good luck!

If you ever want to see your "equivalent performances", go here - http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/index.php/site/calculator In Phred's case, his 21:02 5k suggests a 43:42 10k. Too bad these calculators aren't accurate, because everyone has a BEST distance...I WISH I could run a marathon at the time my best 5k suggests! It's fun to look at though.

Don't think your 10k pace being the same as your current 5k best has to be that far off. If you continue to get the long runs in and you stay injury free, you could get there by end of summer (or earlier). Also, your 5k time suggests a 10k time NOW of about 44 minutes. Unless your endurance right now is really bad or the course is super hilly or the weather is horrible when you run it, you should EASILY be able to get under 47 minutes based on your 5k fitness. If I were you, I'd plan to go through 5k right on 22 minutes flat and then see what's left. If you KNOW you can't do that, then shoot for 22:30 and try to run a 45:00 10k. VERY within your reach I think. Now for your question. I would run the 18k training run at a relaxed (conversational) pace. Getting the run in on Tuesday would be best. If you run it on Wednesday, make sure to not run too much on Thursday or Friday. You might even want to not run at all on Friday and maybe just 3-4 miles on Thursday at an easy pace. If you've been running regularly so that this week of running isn't more than you've been doing (and it seems like it isn't) then you should be ok. Don't be afraid to go for that 10k PR. You really are in shape enough to do it based on that 5k time; it's not an exact science of course, but you should be able to easily bust 47 minutes. Don't talk yourself into not going for it...too many runners do that. If you feel good and the weather is good and the course is decently flat, then go for it!

I like the stories of the running...I am continuing to have calf problems. I would LOVE to go for an 18.7 mile run or really anything close to that far, but my calves are prohibiting me. Went running with my daughter a couple of times last week as she was getting read for track season, and on the second day running with her (I was doing other running too), I had a "calf heart attack" - http://www.thestick.net/Articles/Calf_%20Heart_%20Attack.htm I've had this problem off and on for ~15 years now, and it's very frustrating. Took a couple days off and have since used my Orbitrek. I know not to run again yet for several more days. I coach the distance kids in a summer track program, and right now I need to lose 30 pounds and get past this injury so that I can run a little with them if I want to (I usually want to). I've got just over 3 months before the season starts.

Sorry so late in replying to this. I was a bit disappointed with the men's race after seeing Dathan Ritzenhein take 4th. He's a real talent that just hasn't seemed to conquer the marathon just yet. I think he eventually will. He briefly held the AR in the 5,000 meters at 12:56 (man that's crazy fast) and I do believe has a 2:06 marathon (or even faster) in him if he can stay healthy. Abdi is a good runner, but he has huge ups and downs, so I'm surprised he beat Ritzenhein, but also not too confident he can do well in the Olympics. Ritz finished 10th and was the top American finisher in the last Olympics. Maybe Ryan Hall can put together a great race this time around.

Man I haven't seen this thread recently. Awesome.

Half marathons are a blast...far enough to have to train for them if you don't want to die, but not so far that you have to trudge through 20-mile training runs. Do it Eric! You will love the half distance. Regards, Joe

Yep. Staying injury free is a big problem as you get older especially. At 45, I've had calf problems for more than 10 years now...can train for a while and then BAM! calf cramp that forces me to stop and then I can't run again for at least a week. It happens most often when running downhill, so I try to avoid that if possible. I'm currently just running 20-30 minutes 6 days a week with no immediate goal in mind other than some weight loss.

NICE 7-minute PR! PRs are awesome. From the way you ran that half marathon (mostly steady pace it seems), I have no doubt that you will do just fine in the marathon in May. I'm sure you have a plan, but unless you are trying to keep injuries at bay, at least two runs of 20 miles+ are in order. I always liked to run at least one of 22-23 miles beforehand, but it's not necessary if your goal is just to finish. The more long runs you can do at 20+ though, the easier time you will have. The most important piece of information I ever got from another runner with regard to marathons and ultramarathons (from my former boss Doug Latimer, a former winner of the Western States 100 mile run) was, "expect despair to set in at some point". If you expect it, then it is not a surprise. Sometimes you'll run a marathon with no despair, but you should expect it. Keep moving and usually the despair eventually leaves you.

Yep...highly personal achievements is exactly right. Some people have the inherent talent to roll out of bed with no training and beat me on my best, most fit day of my life, and that hardly seems fair, but that's why you train and goal set based on your OWN talent level and set achievable goals. The nice thing is that you get to set new age group goals as you get older. I used to run so that I could race well. Then I ran to stay fit and try to keep the weight off. Now I run in part to try to keep up with my kids who at age 13 and 10 are kicking my butt!

Congrats on the PR for the half! You guys are making me want to do one in the spring.

Whether you're fast or not is all relative. A buddy of mine has run 1:08 for the half...that seems fast to me, but then the American Record held by Ryan Hall is in 59:43...THAT'S insane! When you consider 95% of American adults can't run ONE mile without stopping, and you ran that half in what likely was in the top 50% of that race (if not even a little better), then that's pretty good brother! Now it's time to run even faster or try 26.2!

Hey Phred, nice job on the half marathon! I know a couple guys who have been running for 20 years who can't (and never could) break 2 hours for a half marathon. Congrats!

I completely agree about Tony Horton and the Beach Body stuff. I bought Power 90 (precursor to P90X) in 2003 and have gone through many rounds of it since. It is really awesome. I just finished Day 4 of my current round last night, so I'm just getting back into it. It's really crazy. Just in two sessions of weights (the other two cardio), my biceps are already noticeably bigger and harder. It's insane how quick the initial gains are.

I've never had an knee pain. My problem (which is common for guys over 40) is with my calves and Achilles tendons; on again off again, so I have stretches when the running is going really well and then I have an injury setback. It's why I've incorporated other types of training to go with the running.

Man, can't believe I didn't see this thread until now. Good job signing up for the half marathon. I really love that distance...it's long enough where you really need to train if you don't want to die, but it's not so long that the long runs can be drudgery. My guess is you'll love it...then the marathon (26.2) is not far behind. I've enjoyed reading the running history of all of you. Here's my history: I started running (actually going out running a distance) at age 8. My dad was a runner then (he didn't do it very long and hasn't been a runner now for 30 years), and I used to go with him. My first organized running came in high school where I ran 4:32 for 1600 meters and 9:48 for 3200 meters. In 1984 as a high school senior, I set the Wood County (Ohio) Cross Country Championships meet record of 15:48 for the 3.1 (5,000 meters) mile course, a record that still stands today. I then went to college and ran for Ohio Wesleyan University. I eventually ran PRs of 9:21 (indoor 2 mile), 14:58 (5k); 32:25 (10k), 1:15 (half marathon) and 2:55 (marathon). I've run 7 marathons and two ultra marathons (a 50 miler and a 40 miler that was up a mountain and back down). I'm now 44 and haven't been a competitive runner for about 10 years now. I still run (currently about 25 miles a week) but I don't really race much anymore at all. Since being less obsessed with running (in my ultra marathon days, I ran as much as 140 miles a week; but usually in the 90-110 a week range), I have put on some weight, and I find that 25 miles a week by itself doesn't really help with the weight reduction too much for me, and I don't want to run 100 miles a week anymore. So, over the past 10 years I've weighed as much as 197 pounds and as little 133, and I've hit both extremes a couple times. I'm currently on the way back to being fit and am including my stalwart Power 90 along with running to help me get down to where I really should be at about 140 pounds or so (I'm currently about 175). I'm still involving myself with running though as I am a summer track coach for the Youth Boosters track team (4th grade to 7th grade) in town (my son is in 5th grade and runs on the team, setting a program record in the 1200 meter run last summer). My daughter is in 8th grade and is a varsity runner for her CC and track teams (she almost won her first CC race on Tuesday but was outkicked in the final 100 meters). Anyway, it's fun watching both of them run. My son has a chance to be really really good as he's already better than all the boys on the middle school team, and he can't run on that team for 2 more years still. Have another cross country meet to watch tonight, and of course it's going to be 93 here today.

Woman gets on a bus with her newborn baby. Bus driver says, "Lady, that is one ugly baby!" Kind of shocked by it all, she doesn't say anything to him, pays her money and heads to the back of the bus where she takes a seat. The man sitting next to her sees that she is becoming increasingly agitated, and so he asks her what the matter is. "That bus driver said a very rude and insulting thing to me just now. I can't believe he said that, and I'd like to give him a piece of my mind!" Man - "Well, you should. He shouldn't be rude to you. You go up there and give him a piece of your mind...I'll watch your monkey for you."