obxa
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Posts posted by obxa
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posted in wrong thread sorry, put in your "alternative to onsong thread"
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Live
Nord Rig: Weighted Controller (Yamaha p255) to Nord compact via 5 pin. Controller soon to be phased out with NumaX
Organ Rig: Mojo Classic/Nord Electro2/Hammond Xk3C to Mainstage via Ik IIO USB midi interface and 5 pin. If I need piano sounds and low latency.
Bluetooth Midi if I just need pads/strings from Mainstage (or Ipad w Korg stuff) because latency isn't as critical.
Very occasionally use a Novation 61 controller with Mainstage using it's USB Midi. But not as brave as you guys, and prefer to use controllers that can make sound in case of emergency.
Occasionally use one of these to adapt USB to regular Midi if need to control Hardware Module directly with Korg Nano controller or Behringer Xtouch without computer:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08MZY59B7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1.
Studio.
I use a lot of old gear and still need some of the old tech.
After trying numerous ground isolators and lifters, I've also given up on Keyboard USB Midi (and USB Audio) on my newer synths (Behringer clones).
Old School M-Audio interface for input (PC88 or BARP) and output to Logic, which goes to a Kawai 90's era Midi Patch-bay and feeds: BARP, and Pro-! 90's era rack mount modules/keyboards daisy chained to patch bay. (JD990, K2000, MKS-70, Wavestation,) and OB1K, OBXa (w mid in i) 70's Mini (with BigBriar Midi in). The Oberheims and Mini are super finicky, and require their midi filtered, so need dedicated midi sends (and they don't have thru).
In the 80s I (sloppily) built a 50 ft Midi /AC cable for my Korg Keytar using Thermostat cable. Worked great. .
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I think some of it's gig related for me. Sadly, I often don't get to play just for fun sake. But reading this thread, I know I should. I usually don't walk out of a pit band or heavy church gig with 30 pages of tree killing charts saying "boy, I really enjoyed that.." But that's how I make a living. When I do a bar gig that's loose -fun. Studio session that's creative-Fun. Jazz Cocktail hours where the band is just musical wallpaper and we can get away with murder...FUN. Playing around with Synths for no good reason= really FUN.
After not playing bass since jazz band in HS, been doing bluegrass gigs couple times a month. Also playing harp. The pay is low, but load-in is delightful (versus keyboard rig...) and the gigs are a ton of fun. I think analogous to Craig's post above- because it's not my main instrument, I don't have the baggage, and can enjoy it for playing sake.
That posted, now I've got to go learn songs for Sunday, and program Abelton.
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1. I knew Joey D played trumpet- but had no idea how great he was on sax too- that was awesome. Thank you for posting!!
2. I didn't see any Midi coming out of that Electro2, looked like they were running stereo- question is whether was a real leslie? With Comp setting on the drawbars that was nice and safe. Could of been a whole other can of cheese had he opened up the upper drawbars.
3. Just reading AnotherScott's post, (thank you for that info...)
7 hours ago, AnotherScott said:The funny thing is, AFAIK, Nord and Crumar use the same Fatar TP/80 action, basically choosing to tweak it differently (spring tension and landing point, I believe).
Happen to have my Mojo Classic and Nord compact next to each other. Used them together before on gigs, but had no idea it was the same action. I can confirm Nord feels "tighter" than the Mojo.
I do like Mojo action better for organ, and of course having lower manual and drawbars. But can work with the Nord when needed if not a 100% organ gig. I know Nord stated they wanted the unweighted keyboard to work for everything, which I guess is why they tweaked it. For the times I've used the Nord compact to cover everything it worked ok as the middle ground.
When I did a gig with nothing but Mojo, (lower manual triggering Ap/sEp'/clav via Mainstage) It worked great conceptually and was a nice compact setup. However, my hands were killing me after the gig. I've got some weird issue where I tend to bang too hard when playing piano on an organ action, yet have no problem playing organ (minus smears...) on weighted keyboards.
I guess bottom line if Nord ( or Macs, or PCs, Behringer, Sushi, Amazon, Walmart) doesn't work for you- that's fine. As someone said earlier there are plenty of other choices out there and to each his/her own. (Horses for courses for our UK friends).
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I concur on reliability and shelf life. I still have an Electro 2 and it's never failed. Electros make a great compact controller for IK B3X or the Logic Organ. (With everything mapped to the Electro buttons). Plus it can still make decent sounds as backup. Had a (real) B3 church gig that needed Wurli on just one song. That Wurli sound still held up well, and was happy to leave laptop with it's doo-dads home.
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Nords are indeed over priced. I still hear the same arguments about Macs too. But I take longevity in account.
I've gotten more mileage out of my Nords than anything else. Mainly because you can add your own samples . My stage is the first thing I'd grab if a gig is going to be unfamiliar territory. I've got a N2ex 88. I also use NS2ex compact that is my primary top keyboard, and midi control it's piano from weighted controller below.
RE Checking out digital pianos: I use the opportunity of backline provided gigs to try out other DPs. Going to Guitar Center is waste of time . Sam Ash is a tad better. I've had much better luck going to regular piano stores that carry the bigger Japanese brands. It's sad you can rarely find Kurzweil stuff in most stores.
I like the action on the NS2. I've played and owned just about every Yamaha slab DP for years and also loved that CP4 wooden action. . As a Kawai acoustic piano owner, tried really hard to like their DP. The action was great, but the sound never worked for me- at least in Band context. Never got a chance to try it on a solo gig.
In my Nord I use the 2 Yamaha models XL and White piano Xl versions. It's worth clearing out all the other pianos so you can use those XL versions. Makes a huge difference. Most times in your typical Guitar Center scenario, (where I feel many of you have gotten a bad impression) they leave them loaded up with the smaller footprint Fazoli and several others for variety sake - and of course have the keyboard set up on an angle 😜. I'm sure memory is not an issue on the NS3 or latest Grand.
Practically speaking unless I was doing a "Yacht rock" or Jazz Fusion gig, I'd spend the money on a Nord before I bought one of those admittedly delicious Vintage Vibe EPs. There are occasional B-stock blemish deals on Nords.(which is how I got my 88). That Vintage vibe would be lovely awesome as a studio piece. Disclaimer: I own a couple of stage Rhodes (70;s and 80's era) that occasionally go out on some artist gigs. But I need serious help moving them. Have considered selling them to get a Vintage Vibe, but not a priority.
Speaking of moving things...... Due to hip surgery and trying lighten my load, I was in the market for a 73 note piano to replace my Yamaha slab piano. My Nord88 lives at Church and only take it out for certain shows. I considered the Yamaha Cp73 and also a weighted Nord electro HP. The Electro was more than I wanted to spend for a bottom board that could also make sound. I looked at the Studiologic SL73, went with their Numa X piano instead. Been very happy with it. I've not gigged extensively. but it's serving the purpose of something I can easily move. Works well as my bottom board and also with my organ rig. I wouldn't call it a "Nord Killer" but it punches very well above it's class and price.
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14 hours ago, CyberGene said:
It's the first time I hear about "worship" pads and I checked a YouTube video which I watched only briefly but as far as I can see those are very soft and mellow pad sounds which you use for stuff like the root and fifth in octaves, very widely to cover the entire frequency spectrum. It doesn't sound too loaded and too functional in terms of harmony, rather a soft backbone. What I don't get is whether the band plays something on top of the pad and if so what is played, are they regular harmonies? Or are those pads used for intermissions to just create mood during service? I've abandoned church 20 years ago and I don't remember anything even remotely close to using pads during service but it's the SDA church in Bulgaria, so not sure how relevant that is to the thread 🧐
Yes it's both. The term "pads" get's thrown around a bit. It's more about context and application.
It can mean something that simply doubles the piano sound as you described- like a traditional piano and string layer sound...except with more pedestrian soft synth pad sound.. Or as you also correctly thought, something (soft pad or pad with motion) that simply statically drones before, between, or even throughout the entire song. It can be slightly atonal, but that's part of the vibe. Very effective to avoid dead air between songs. Both applications are heavily used in Contemporary Worship music.
These days : Altar Calls, offering, or moments of prayer which traditionally had been done on organ or piano are often fulfilled by so called worship pads because they're non-percussive, less aggressive and considered more "worshipful". Muddying the waters even more - in the secular studio world; people still often ask for an "organ pad" (carpet) under a verse or intro where a simple drawbar setting would drone, or play the changes without calling too much attention to itself.
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I might be way off, but I think one of the things the OP is perhaps asking (and referencing with his teacher) is just how "religious " one must actively be when involved in ministry. I'd love to comment on that but won't in respect to forum guidelines.
I've been a full-time secular musician since my late 20's, but also have simultaneously been in ministry for over 18+ years. It's definitely about maintaining two very different relationships. There's absolutely a ton of crossover from both camps, and like most things, lots of grey areas.
I've served (and serve) in Baptist, Catholic, Unity, Methodist, and "Non-denominational" churches. Sometimes in the same week.
Like many who play at some Mega churches, I've often been hired more for my secular background.
Main church gig MD on Nord/Shell at my full time Sunday morning gig at fairly large Methodist Church, they also live-stream. AKA "pajama church".
. I choose songs, create the service order, write-post charts, make tracks, run/schedule the band and singers, run planning center. Regularly talk with Pastor and AV folks. I’m also responsible for all the administrative stuff of my crew.. As a knuckle dragging keyboard player, I’ve had to begrudgingly learn: budgets, payroll, spreadsheets, HR, accounting departments, W9’s, all the things our friends here wtih normal corporate jobs could do in their sleep.
The other church gig is B3 (or A100 ,XK3 or my Mojo) depending on the changing weekly stage setup. It's a large Baptist church that's been on TV for a long while. I occasionally fill in as MD/Piano there too. They do a "Blended" service wtih full orchestra, choir, and band. It's the most challenging thing I do because of the complexity of the charts and music.
During Covid, while other gigs dried up, I was actually busier due to Church's doing virtual and taped services. I still do both, but my gigging schedule and taking (or declining) any out of town secular gigs now revolve around my full time church MD gig. Sundays usually start at 5:30 a.m, so Saturday night gigs can be a challenge.
Luckily I haven't confused "Uptown funk" with "This is Amazing grace" yet.
The MD gig is a 5 piece contemporary band with occasional guest strings/horns. My favorite thing we do there is a semi-regular "Acoustic-New grass revival " Sunday every couple of months- where it's upright bass, banjo/mando, etc . I drag out accordion, melodicas and harps. Congregation loves those Sundays. I'll post a couple of pics of my two main gig/rigs.
Getting back to "hot-button" topics. I know this awesome forum has rules about religion and politics for good reason. This might be the time to raise the question: I've often wondered if we need to have a sub-forum for those working in Ministry?? When he was still at Keyboard Mag, I had an ongoing email dialogue with Dominic about starting this very thing because I was so clueless about worship when I first got started.
Jamrpo asked some great honest questions. Along the same vein as keyboard players in cover bands, there are many important components playing in Ministry that don't necessarily have to focus on the religious/spiritual side- and there of course other places already out there for that.
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When I'm on worship stuff with just acoustic piano and don't want to bring another keyboard- I just do a static pads with these two apps.
Very similar to the drone function of worship keys and others, in most cases that's all you need.
I let them drone for intros and altar-call kinda stuff and works great. Cheap. Both do crossfades if you want to change keys.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/softpads-background-loop-pads/id1362791362. This one is easy to see on stage.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/autopad-ambient-pad-loops/id1270890718
When I use a simple slab piano and need a pad bed under what I'm playing I'll midi it up via bluetooth to either the Wavestation app, (awesome pads). or Korg Module with Triton soundset (great for pads) I find the wavestation to be less fuss than than Korg Module. Either of those highly recommended.
C
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Thank you all- I also ordered a "demo" Slim 61 from Sweetwater after seeing Kraft Music includes that case as part of their Numa73 package.
I completely missed Brad's post, thanks for the link. Sorry, I really need to read all of this (great) thread from the beginning!!
Fedex came Saturday (along with the Modx7 case) while I was literally heading out the door. Was having a hard time squeezing the Numa in the slim, so just left it in the temp 88 case I had. I'll give it another shot- after seeing Brad's picture and Bjosko's confirmation that it's indeed tight.
BTW- If it helps anyone, the Modx7 works great for the Nord Stage 73. I love velour, but just couldn't justify spending $300+ for their soft bag. True to us keyboard players form, I spent more on cases than I made on the gig.
Thanks guys.
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2 hours ago, bjosko said:
What about the Gator TSA 61 ?
I have one here, will try it tomorrow, but ouch, they have been expensive lately.Someone have had luck with some inexpensive Pelican weapon cases wher you cut the foam to shape yourself.
Thanks BJosko- I'm looking for soft gig bag style for local ( my car) and occasional short run out of town (van/tour bus/trailer).
I remember seeing a facebook post about folks using Pelican style rifle cases from Walmart, thanks- that might be a solution. Still got old Anvil cases, but overkill for the kind of gigs I do these days. Cheers
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Anyone have luck finding a suitable case for the NumaX 73?
Best I could find is the Yamaha Modx7 case (which I had specifically bought for my Nord Stage 73)- still a wee bit too wide on the sides, and 76 note slims are even wider.
This Roland looked promising: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CBB76S--roland-roland-black-series-76-note-slim-keyboard-bag
Does anyone own the Korg Krome case?
Thanks!
RE: the video above, always love that Music Track guy. Though he almost played "Do it again" at least ten times every time he found a rhodes patch.
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10 minutes ago, cp-the-nerd said:
My understanding is that it's a well rounded sound range and has been a choice of keyboard players for some time now. I have not used one yet myself but I couldn't pass up the price. I have seen numerous recommendations to use this amp for keyboard purposes, including video reviews on youtube.I played bass in Jazz band in High School. They had one of those Ampeg flip top things. The MD amazingly trusted to just always take it home with me- used to use it for keys because I didn't know any better, but always liked it over the guitar amp I had at the time.
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To echo the above suggestions- A silicone case ideally with it's own kickstand works great to make it non-slip. I just plop mine in the the music rack of the piano, or if playing organ, keep these in all my gig bags:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08K2W4X2V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
I also keep a black roll of that shelf liner stuff in my car- and some pre cut strips and squares in my gig bag.
Comes in super handy for anything you need to keep from moving: like pedals on the floor, when using an phone/ipad mini to control a mixer app and lay flat on a keyboard. I also use it underneath keyboards on the arms or supports of the stand to keep them from sliding.
Also recommend a 10 ft fabric covered charging cable- preferably right angle. I'm amazed at guys who use their ipad on a gig/show after already doing rehearsals/soundcheck and then worry all night they won't have enough battery to make it through the gig.
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So glad to see this!! Similar to the Truth in Music act. Which I wish was in effect in all 50 states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_in_Music_Advertising
Like others here, I've worked in the oldies business for a while. Made a choice a while back to only work with the original artists, or at very least those from the family estate who rightfully can use the name.
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When I worked at Disney they used those blankets to cover the gear for sun, but also protect from any fireworks stuff. I've used them ever since on outdoors stuff Also those car windshield shade things work in a pinch too.
My band contract states we will not play on an uncovered stage. Whether it's me, duo, or more pieces. I ask for shade or a tent. If I end up at private function and they "forget", I keep a couple of 10x12 tents. Great time to buy them is end of summer. Usually no more than $50-60. they come in gig-friendly beige and white and UV protected.
If it's usual daytime setup and evening gig; portable tents come in handy to keep you and your stuff cool and protected while setting up- and you can then always remove it at show time.
I'm with Stokely! I had a run-in just this past Saturday afternoon with a wedding planner and my little jazz trio for an outside reception. Bride's Mom neglected to have a tent provided. I know she had a lot on her plate and they were super nice folks, so didn't make a big deal and just got mine out of the car.
Wedding planner arrived and said she absolutely hated the tent. I offered to move the band to a shady section under the porch, but also reminded her it was in our contract and the sax tuning (and us) would not do well in the heat. Also mentioned I'd be happy to take it down at sunset, but it was staying up. She finally had the florist move some flower arrangements in front of the poles, and made sure to remind me how displeased she was. Whatever.
My tolerance level for these kind of things is getting really bad. But our health is more important. I also normally worry about getting bad client reviews on the booking sites for not being "flexible" on these kinds of gigs. Luckily we were hired by the Bride's Mom-not the planner, and they were happy. 😇
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On 8/18/2022 at 12:23 PM, jerrythek said:
Nice memories… another Jersey boy here (until end of 1988). The store in Butler someone mentioned was called Village Music, I worked and taught piano lessons at their Parsippany store for a number of years. The Aquino brothers ran the business.
Long and McQuade memory: Master ARP demonstrator Mike Brigida did a clinic in the store when the Chroma first came out - this was a big deal for us fledgling synth nerds - a clinic of this stature in Parsippany!
I shopped at all those stores, and got all my gear serviced at Triple S for years. Really obscure reference: for a few years a guy named Sam Adriano ran a small business called Impact Audio across the street from Muscaras. I bought some of his custom cabinets (an 18 cabinet and a 12 cabinet) for my keys rig. Sounded great, but stupid expensive and blonde wood. Not a smart move for playing one-nighters in N Jersey clubs!
Hey Jerry thanks for reminding me about Village!!!! I was in there constantly- also took a few lessons before I went to Dr. Van Orden. I also left NJ around 86 .but I'm sure you and I may have crossed paths at Village or at least in the club scene... hard to believe: 6 nights a week. My brother (still in Jersey) was a sound guy, and Annie Haslam's (Renaissance) road manager for a bunch of years. He still has bunch of stuff he used with her from Impact Audio and Erik Waynes stuff in storage.
I mentioned before it's funny how we all define Jersey geography either by (former Rock) clubs or music stores.
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We may need a "keyboard players from NJ " forum.
. Talking with you all has made me feel warmly fuzzy for those days.
Hey Franz- the other guys can correct me, but I think Muscara's was actually right on Main st. aka "Belleville Ave"? Across the street from Triple S Electronics. The place was legendary. https://thisismynewjersey.wordpress.com/tag/muscara-music/ Just seeing the storefront picture brings back fond memories. My weekly ritual was to take my Wurli, OB ,or other battered gig gear to Triple S for repair. Would go to Muscara's or that pizza place next store to kill time while they fixed stuff. Muscara's had the "graveyard" basement. Loved rummaging down there.
So you might know - wasn't there a guy at Victors named Richie w/Italian last name.... (Forma- something)?? ... who went on to become a product rep for Korg and ton of others?
28 minutes ago, Franz Schiller said:Wow, I live in North Jersey as well and didn't know there were so many of you here too.
I bought a lot of stuff from the Paramus Sam Ash, including my first DAW, first DP, and a bunch of other stuff. Sad to see it go.
Where was Muscara's in Belleville? There is a pawn shop called Spinosa Music that has super random stuff sometimes, though rarely anything great. Like a Yamaha DX21 and an old Lowery organ were the coolest things I can remember.
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Mills Dude- Yes sorry AMS, though technically American Music and ZZounds are the same. Not sure why they feel a need to pretend, they have different portals but same store. I shop at both and abide
Lightbg: Wow- I remember John at L& MQ very well!! Great guy- always encouraging to talk to, always hooked me up.
I used to work at First Union bank (Now Wells) Totowa. Soul sucking job as a teller, was playing in a band at night, living in Clifton. Without fail, I'd go to L&Mq EVERY day on my lunch hour. One day finally decided I wanted to do music full time and never came back from lunch. I think John had something to do with that-or they just got sick of me being in there.
Synthaholic- that's so cool- I vaguely remember there was a music store in Pompton lakes/Butler and he also had a store at the mall that did Wurlitzer presentations? One of my piano teachers was Dr. Howard Van Orden - and he had a Wurli Theater Organ in his teaching studio in Butler. That ring a bell?
My Brother lives near Phillipsburg - in the 80's there was a music store out in the sticks- but they had the only Dx7 in Jersey. Can't remember the place, but remember how happy I was to have scored one. Old friend of mine used own Yada-Yada studios in Boonton -Dx7 got a ton of mileage for rentals.
I also remember Ritchie's music in Rockaway. (and they're still there).
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Wow thank you for the great memories guys- had no idea most of you were from there!!!
Went to West Milford HS, William Patterson Uni, and played all around the NJ/NY club circuit for years (Strutter) before moving and working in NYC. Then going on the road moved to Cali,then here.
Bought my Wurli and boat loads of stuff from Sam Ash Paramus, tons of stuff from Robbies. The 2nd floor was big on "Univox" stuff. Victor's House of Music in Ridgewood, (who is also ZZounds), Got my Arp and used to rent road pianos from Long & Mcquade Parsippany, I used to raid the basement at Muscara in Belleville- still have things I bought there. ....And of course across the street Triple S electronics (Springsteen's brother in law) used to fix all my synths!!!!
If you're old enough you'll probably remember Willowbrook Mall, and the big "2 Guys" store near where 46, 23 and all that stuff met.And if you gigged, the Tick-Tock diner on 46.
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On 7/9/2022 at 11:31 PM, GotKeys said:
Might I suggest XPand? Especially with its layering capabilities you can probably get some good vibes and harmonica sounds out of it.
+1 for Expand and Triton. When using Mainstage for live pit/show band stuff, Xpand and the Korg Triton (and even M1) plugs nicely fill the gap for those miscellaneous utility sounds you need every so often. Also typically lighter on CPU than loading up another Kontakt instance. Xpand is usually on sale cheap too.
Cheers
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I think "clueless band leaders' needs be another thread?
At the intersection of integrity and money, I've worked for way more than a few.
Always seems to be a correlation between those that are weak musician themselves, who surround themselves with great players , who treat said players like crap....But they are usually really great on the business-client side - and that's why they stay busy.
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It’s ok to admit we’re all different, and no right or wrong here.
Like most things, it boils down to communication before you accept or decline any gig. You always need to know what the gig entails, what’s required, and what’s negotiable.
Once you’ve committed, I firmly believe in “do what you said you do” and always strive to bring more to the table.
If you ask first- you always know up front what’s expected, and whether you’re willing to do it or not. If you don’t want to do horns, then state that up front. If that’s a deal-breaker, so be it. There will be other gigs, or someone else will be a better fit. Or there might be some middle ground on how much horns. I don’t think that’s being a Diva at all.
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My usual answer is:" if you want horns, hire a horn section". At very least a Sax player. You can actually learn a lot about phrasing playing with a real horn (or string) section.
I'm ok doubling horn lines on organ, and synth horns can work on a few tunes, but all night, no. I've done EWF stuff with small section and that works nice beefing up the real thing. I absolutely draw the line on any gig that wants sax parts. That is pure cheese. I shamefully still have a DX7 breath controller that pains me when I forget it's still in the back of my desk drawer.
It's weird, I don't have as much problem doing string parts . In the olides circuit it's usually expected..
I do a fair amount of 2nd keyboard chair gigs where the MD (or artist) is the pianist and you're usually covering a lot of orch and incidental stuff. Not my favorite thing to do, but helps pay the bills. I've done strings only pit band gigs where they even sat me with the string section (who despised me being there LOL). I kept telling the MD on that gig how ironic it was we were doing "West Side Story" - the string people treated me like the opposing gang. Money was admittingly great, but it was miserable and no fun at all- so declined next time it came around.
At the end of the day, I think most of would rather just play Piano, Wurli and Organ.
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Alternative to OnSong?
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
I posted a reply in your other thread by mistake -which I'll delete.
I noticed same as me, you've got several different sets and bands you work with on your set lists. Slightly OT, but just a thought:
I hate to say it, because it can also be a be another learning curve, but I think Igigbook is much better for stuff w/real books and any of the more common jazz fake books.
They've got every single one already indexed, and adding your own scores (if you don't bother indexing) is very easy. Breeze to pull them in a set for a cocktail hour, solo set etc. Search function is great, especially for pulling up a request. Just about any commercial real book is already indexed.
Works great for that, and has been around for a while. I use it for cover band gigs, cocktail, solo/trio, wedding, corporate stuff- and still add non-published or scanned charts I've made, or the gig provides.
I used to use it for shows and artist stuff that had large custom scores. But iGigbook's annotation is harder than it needs to be, even using the Apple pencil.
So for stuff like pit band, shows/concerts, etc. that have a definitive song order, need notes/corrections - Forscore (or Paperless music app) work much better. Being able to store the Mp3 (and tune/Xpose it) with the chart is super valuable, for shows where performance key differs from recording. Plus Forscore can send midi program change within the score/chart.
I know it's a pain to use more than one app, but each has its unique strengths that fit the job required.