Music Player Network
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
I've found a local luthier and a near-local luthier who, though they've never done it before, seem like they could actually do a good job of coating a fretless neck (Since the bass is a neckthrough I don't really feel like shipping it to far corners).

I'm looking for two things:

(1) The brighter sound/sustain. Actually it's more a "I want to check this out" type thing : }
(2) The ability to choose from a greater selection of roundwound strings without incurring additional fingerboard maintenance

I've read quite a bit about different methods spray, pour, brush) - and various polyesters/polyurethanes versus epoxies. I want something that will be very hard and won't itself need MORE difficult maintenance later on.

Any thoughts, experiences?


.
BP Island
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 298
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 298
Hello Greenboy,

I play a couple of fretlesses (fretli?) one with an ebony board and one with a jatoba board. I've tried some different things to harden the boards for roundwound strings. What works best for me is tung oil. You can pick it up at any DIY store. Just rub the stuff onto your fingerboard with a soft cloth (use gloves) and allow it to dry for 24 hours. The tung oil basically works its way into the wood and makes it much harder. You can apply several coats for a more glossy finish, but I prefer just one or 2 coats so that my boards still feel like wood. The great thing about this method is you can do it yourself and reapply a couple times per year and your roundwound strings will not eat up your board. I've used this method for the last several years and have no wear on either fingerboard.

happy mwah-ing!


"Study, study, study...or BONK BONK bad kids!"
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Hi bubbaupright,

I decided I wanted to try the SOUND that a coated board gets too. That was point #1.


.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,789
... Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,789
I had Mr. Lull convert my very first bass to a fretless a very long time ago. He finished it/coated it like a Pedulla buzz bass. It sounded wonderful and I kick myself to this day for ever parting with that bass (I was young and dumb... and a poor college student). Give Mike a call and ask him what the hell he used to coat it (some sort of epoxy I believe) I highly encourage giving that a go.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 298
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 298
Sorry, man. Got caught up in my own ingenuity (ha, ha)

You'll find that coating the fretboard as I described brings you much closer to that 'Jaco coated fretless' sound. Highs sing more, but you'll find that you need to boost more bass than before. All things equal ( EQ, string type etc.) you'll find that you have much more treble bite. I used to have a fretless with a poly coating on the board and I have to say that the tung oil-thing has better bass response and doesn't feel "sticky" under your fingers. Hope that helps with your SOUND inquiry.


"Study, study, study...or BONK BONK bad kids!"
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Hey Bump,

I read the Pedulla site and some luthier comments about Pedulla. I've played the Buzz fretless and it sounds great! I think their Diamondkote is a polyester or polyurethane. I'm getting conflicting reports of its long-term durability; I think this relates to thickness of coating but I'm still digging more.


.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
/me digs for Dann Glenn comments on his Hot Wire bass.


.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Hey bubbaupright,

I'm after something a little more like what HG Thor is doing - only looking at those prices and adding 2-way shipping for an entire bass, don't want to go with them.


.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,397
G
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,397
Quote:
Originally posted by greenboy:
Hey bubbaupright,

I'm after something a little more like what HG Thor is doing - only looking at those prices and adding 2-way shipping for an entire bass, don't want to go with them.
Wow, that's slick. No pun intended. I dig.

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,789
... Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,789
Quote:
Originally posted by greenboy:
Hey bubbaupright,

I'm after something a little more like what HG Thor is doing - only looking at those prices and adding 2-way shipping for an entire bass, don't want to go with them.
That looks very cool, and also very similar to the buzz bass finish. I'd like to play a bass with that HG Thor finish on the ol neckola. I would imagine that it brightens up your sound quite a little bit.

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Yeah, that's some nice photo work to show it off too : }

I just read a few more things that suggest that NO WAY are any oils, waxes or penetrating polymers do what good epoxy or polycoats can do, either protectively or tonally.

Pretty much what I thought anyway. I mean, ebony IS a hard wood so it isn't easily gouged, and nothing that can penetrate it is going to be much harder than it already is.


.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,160
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,160
Quote:
Originally posted by greenboy:
Hey bubbaupright,

I'm after something a little more like what HG Thor is doing - only looking at those prices and adding 2-way shipping for an entire bass, don't want to go with them.
Whoa! I think I just found out what I want to do with that Alvarez RB30C acoustic-electric that I never play anymore! Merry Christmas to me! \:\)

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Just a little tidbit from an old BP; this one has circulated a lot but it always ends up like a party whisper circle - wherein the name of the epoxy is always lost or smeared. Anyway...

--------------------

Jaco: I used Petite's Poly-Poxy; it's boat epoxy. You can find it in any boating supply store around Florida. It's the toughest epoxy they make. You apply it with a brush, and it takes several coats. I used about six coats on my fretless, and it took about a day for each coat to dry.

BP: Did that harm the action?

Jaco: Not at all. It's essential. It saves the instrument from getting eaten up by the roundwound strings. When you remove those frets and use roundwound strings, there's nothing left of the neck. They eat right through it.


.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 580
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 580
Hey Greenboy!
You helped me I'm gonna help you! In case you hadn't come across it in your reading or looking at other basses, some repair people will coat a fretboard with Crazy Glue! I was very dubious but it's been done now for about 25 years and it looks crystal clear and is very hard when done properly.

I've owned a Pedulla Hexabuzz for 10+ years now and my finish on my board shows only the tiniest of string ridge marks under the low B and E and that may only be because some mook slapped on it a bit. Pedulla's coating (diamond coat, I think they call it...) is VERY hard and last a heavy gigging player about 5 years on average. Somebody like Bumpcity who glgs a LOT, doing funky thangs may go through in about 3 years. I believe it's a Polyurethane. Call Pedulla, they're very nice folks.

Gary Willis' site http://www.garywillis.com may have a section about how to coat your board. I think he did when the site was new. He talks about how he did several of his own basses in the past with boat epoxy if I remember right. He talks about it at seminars...

I'm sure he'd give you a detailed answer in his contact email.

Hope all that helps. My limited experience working on boats is that it would be easier to get a transparent finish with Poly than epoxies but there are so many out there...

Paint shops (real ones-Ma and Pa since 1948 or Sherwin Williams stores are good sources for info on their products. I had them help me select a spray finish for a banjo I built years ago.

By the way, the singing, zingy sound is so addictive!!!

Jim


"When people hear good music, it makes them homesick for something they never had, and never will have."
Edgar Watson Howe
"Don't play what's there. Play what's not there" Miles Davis
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Hey JimT,

I'm gonna seem very hard to please here, a real schmuck ; }

...I know a lot of luthiers use Cyanoacrylate for filling gashes in a board (mixed with wood dust a shade or two lighter the the neck wood). But I recall Ed Friedland getting a crazyglue coat done and it must have been a year later he was already saying it hadn't held up.

We all know he's a slappin' monster, and it's probably hard to build crazy glue up thick enough to really handle that kind of thwackage. Also, Ed's tale got me to thinking about how superglue reacts to moisture too. Not pretty.

Ah - I forgot about the Willis site! Funny, considering how many times I used to point to it ; }


.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 580
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 580
greenboy,
Yeah, now that you mention Ed's comment, I remember that. I hadn't heard of anyone else having that problem but I'd prefer polyurethane myself after using a bass with that finish for those 10 years.

Have you tried a hard finished fretless with a volume pedal yet? Yowza!


"When people hear good music, it makes them homesick for something they never had, and never will have."
Edgar Watson Howe
"Don't play what's there. Play what's not there" Miles Davis
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Yeah, it seems like more overtones further up the series have longer sustain with a coating. I can see where THAT would be neater for volume pedal enveloping : }


.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,265
Likes: 25
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,265
Likes: 25
WB green one, it is good to see you here again.
I am currently doing a conversion on an ebony board, and seriously considering a combo epoxy/fiberglass treatment that my buddy E highly recommends.
Fiberglass overlay in an epoxy bed, if I have it right. Typical boat finish, supposed to be super hard.

I am definitely eager to hear your findings...

Peace,

wraub



I'm a lot more like I am now than I was when I got here.




Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
hey hey Wraub : }

Indeed, talking of boats...

The web is awash with egg-spurts, repetitions of rumors and ignorance, with the occasional detailed and intelligent life raft floating along to dispel all the flotsam. I'm still looking around but I've come to some conclusions.

Any oil, gun oil, or wax, is NOT going to be of nearly the same order of hardness as a stable coating. Penetrants like those will slightly alter tone and give softer more porous woods a chance to deal more gracefully with non-roundwound string wear more like ebony already does. I've found something that might even be better than that as far as really penetrating and sealing and adding some amount of surface strength: CPES (Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer) .

That's a product used in marine applications. Hey, I want a real DECK ; }... The same company has recommended to luthiers a wood-resin-dervived epoxy, Layup & Laminating Epoxy Resin . Supposedly, because the resin is obtained from wood instead of petroleum byproduct, it is flexible yet still hard, so it doesn't have "shatter" tendencies when the neck wants to move through humidity or truss adjustment. Also, it supposedly bonds better, and since I've seen a fair amount of references to "delaminating" elsewhere, I'm all for THAT ; }

It occurs to me that I'll have to raise my nut a little to accomodate the thick surface I'd prefer.

More laterz : }


.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,265
Likes: 25
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,265
Likes: 25
Quote:
Originally posted by greenboy:
... a wood-resin-dervived epoxy, Layup & Laminating Epoxy Resin . Supposedly, because the resin is obtained from wood instead of petroleum byproduct, it is flexible yet still hard, so it doesn't have "shatter" tendencies when the neck wants to move through humidity or truss adjustment. Also, it supposedly bonds better, and since I've seen a fair amount of references to "delaminating" elsewhere, I'm all for THAT ; }
I have also looked into the "delam" issue, and it is a concern to me as well. This wood derived resin sounds, indeed, like just the ticket. Do you only know of marine "real world" use, or have you seen/heard of any musical instrument applications?

The link you included only made me more curious, but the description sounds like the method E and I discussed.

Peace,

wraub



I'm a lot more like I am now than I was when I got here.




Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,533
_
El Superfly Grande
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
El Superfly Grande
MP Hall of Fame Member
_
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,533
wraub,

How far are you in your fretless conversion? Can you describe what you've done so far? Have you been taking photos along the way for posterity (and your friends on the LDL!)?

Nice to see you on the board after a brief absence! Check your PMs.

Peace,
--sweet'n'low


spreadluv

Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars.
Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
hey wraub,

I didn't keep track of most of my deep trawling through the ocean of posts and forums and message boards and newsgroups (man, there are bass forums galore beyond the 5 or so I've read, some moribund, some in semi-hibernation, some having no real centers of respectable authority) but there are still two links that trace back to that site, that were corroborated elsewhere.

Here are those links:

http://www.rotdoctor.com/L/MiscL/QA079.html

http://www.rotdoctor.com/L/MiscL/QA104.html


.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 15
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 15
I have two fretless Zons with coated boards. They use some sort of catalyzed polyester resin. It lasts forever! Really amazing stuff. I WISH I knew what it was.

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 821
P
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
P
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 821
At the risk of stating the obvious, as hard a finish as you seem to be looking for, you may need to start with bare wood. While my experience with finishes is limited to "shop class" & refinishing a few furniture pieces at home, it seems like applying finish to wood that has already absorbed a different finish won't work as well as dry unfinished wood.

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,200
A
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
A
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,200
I haven't really played my fretless enough since I applied this to know quite how durable it is (though it's looking good so far) but I used Ronseal Diamond Hard Floor Varnish which is a water-based polyurethane coating. It's not as hard as epoxy, so I presume the tone is a little less bright, but it sounds and feels great.

However, if I'd been able to find the boat epoxy when I defretted this bass I'd have gone down that route. This was just the easy option (very simple to apply, as well as cheap and easy to find) and I've been very lucky!

Alex

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,823
Moderator Emeritus
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,823
Click here !!

I bet you'd get some good results with this one..

Allow me to help you to connect directly to one of the products listed above

Why don't you just fashion a metal plate to go on top of the neck instead of a fretboard and stop all this "wear and tear" talk

Tom


www.stoneflyrocks.com
Acoustic Color

Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Don't like the metal tone or feel, Tom - especially after the bass has been in the van during winter. Makes me sing sharp ; }

Actually mention of West and the Gougeon Brothers was what got me checking out RotDoctor - those prices! But the more I think about that the less I care : }

PhilMan99 - I've got bare ebony, and I'm pretty sure that the lemon oil will dry right out with an application of acetone or whatever.

Thanks guys!


.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,397
G
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,397
Quote:
Originally posted by greenboy:
PhilMan99 - I've got bare ebony, and I'm pretty sure that the lemon oil will dry right out with an application of acetone or whatever.
Lemon oil?!?! For SHAME greenboy!

Trust the guys who handle wood for a living; use boiled linseed oil. \:D

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,533
_
El Superfly Grande
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
El Superfly Grande
MP Hall of Fame Member
_
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,533
Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Capasso (Zarkov):
Why don't you just fashion a metal plate to go on top of the neck instead of a fretboard and stop all this "wear and tear" talk?

Tom
Signor Capasso -- a fine idea. Perhaps someone has already thought of this and put it into action... check out what these French folks are using for fretless \'boards!


spreadluv

Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars.
Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,265
Likes: 25
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,265
Likes: 25
Quote:
Originally posted by Sweet Willie:
wraub,

How far are you in your fretless conversion? Can you describe what you've done so far? Have you been taking photos along the way for posterity (and your friends on the LDL!)?

Nice to see you on the board after a brief absence! Check your PMs.

Peace,
--sweet'n'low
Thanks for the kind words, Will. I will check PMs.
Actually, life has intruded on my plans somewhat. Am now seriously looking at methods, as well as tools and whatnot.
I will definitely take pics.

Peace,

wraub



I'm a lot more like I am now than I was when I got here.




Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,888
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,888
trust me man, it's all about the fiberglassing. fewer epoxy coats thusly lowering the chances of delamming. they use it to coat the bottoms of boats so it's tough as nails. as far as adhesion to the surface IT'S F#$KING EPOXY. just sand, scuff and glass.


Eeeeeehhhhhhhhh.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Hey Bastid E,

I'm all ears, but I'm really not that worried about de-lam'ing. What are the other advantages? What's the appearance?

Willy,

Cool link, I haven't looked at their site for a long time. Not only are they doing more cool things, but the site is totally different!


.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,888
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,888
advantages? it's as bulletproof as a finish is gonna get. disclaimer: don't shoot your bass.

clarity? water white. clear as a bell. the fiberglass goes all transparent when soaked in epoxy.


Eeeeeehhhhhhhhh.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,017
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,017
Quote:
Originally posted by Bastid E:
advantages? it's as bulletproof as a finish is gonna get. disclaimer: don't shoot your bass.

clarity? water white. clear as a bell. the fiberglass goes all transparent when soaked in epoxy.
I am actually going to do this very same thing to my fretless the next time I have to repair my surfboard dings... (figured I'd wait and concentrate all of my toxic fume intake to one session.) \:D
Just pay very close attention to the directions on the epoxy... take the advice of someone who has worked with this stuff plenty on boats and surfboards. The catalyst is very sensitive to temperature and humidity. Follow the proportions to the letter, and there are special considerations regarding the air temperature... they are there for a reason. If you don't get the mix exactly right, your epoxy will either be:
Too brittle, and the surface will delam or shatter (and that would be very uncomfortable on the fingertips while playing... especially if you do lay a strip of glass down on the board.)
OR,
It will not set up at all and it will be too tacky. Then you would be out a good neck.
Oh yeah, and whatever you do, don't leave a piece of fiberglass soaking in a resin bucket... especially near flammables... \:o just trust me on this one...

DX
<><

Oh yeah, and if you use epoxy resin first, don't go back later and try to use a poly resin on it, to fill holes, etc... they don't mix.


Aerodyne Jazz Deluxe
Pod X3 Live
Roland Bolt-60 (modified)
Genz Benz GBE250-C 2x10
Acoustic 2x12 cab
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Quote:
getz76: Trust the guys who handle wood for a living; use boiled linseed oil. \:D
You know, I've used pure lemon oil up to now because I've seen a fair amount of luthiers who talk of it. I realize some favor linseed oil (and I've used thinned linseed oil for some woodworking in the past), but some don't favor it. I guess there are several ways to go, and different luthiers form preferences based on their experiences, the woods they tend to use, etc.


.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,888
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,888
i handle wood for a living, well actually i handle fish for a living but wood capitalized my formative years and paid the rent for 8.

don't use boiled linseed oil. penetrative finishes provide only marginal protection against stains (i.e. spilling a glass of water on something). even in that application penetrative oils are not used in a situation that will see a lot of use (i.e. a coffee table or anything that you concievably could spill something on). most times they're covered with a coat of wax because it anything happens to the finish you can just spot strip and reapply the wax. but even then you can't put a hot cup of something on it because the heat will alter the chemicala composition of the oil finish and then the whole peice is ruined (you can't strip or sand out a damaged penetrative finish).


Eeeeeehhhhhhhhh.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,397
G
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,397
Quote:
Originally posted by Bastid E:
don't use boiled linseed oil. penetrative finishes provide only marginal protection against stains (i.e. spilling a glass of water on something). even in that application penetrative oils are not used in a situation that will see a lot of use (i.e. a coffee table or anything that you concievably could spill something on).
I wasn't suggesting boiled linseed oil as an alternative to epoxy, but as an alternative to lemon oil. If you're treating an unfinished fretboard (ebony, rosewood, etc.), my understanding is that lemon oil evaporates and dries out wood, whereas boiled linseed oil will not dry out.

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 616
B
Ben Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
B
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 616
I built boats for a while in the '80s and used a lot of West epoxy. They are still around, obviously, as are competitors.

The drill was: bare wood to start is best. Otherwise be sure no grease, i.e. wash with acetone. Thin coats are preferable to thick. Resin can be applied with a disposable real bristle brush, or with a flexible plastic squegee. First coat to soak in. Wood and resins should be warm, in the 70s F is best. As the resin soaks in little bubbles will appear, pop those. After cure (overnight in a warm room) sand the first coat down to remove the raised grain but not smooth. Second thin coat to complete filling the grain. Cure overnight. Wash with warm water to remove "amine blush" surface film that appears. Sand carefully to smooth the epoxy surface but don't sand through it or you will have to start over with the bare wood spots. Third coat to level and make a hard surface. Wash, sand, and shape the third coat.

If you want to add a thin layer of cloth, something like 2oz, add it dry after the first coat while it is still damp and squegee another layer of resin on from the top, wetting the cloth that way. I'm dubious about the need for this on a bass, actually.

On a bass neck, you need to take the neck off the bass and mask things very carefully. You need to remove the masking tape each time, taking the tape off when the resin is "green", meaning partially set and won't flow anymore, but not completely set. The epoxy can saturate the tape and if it cures that way the tape becomes a permanent part of the neck and needs to be sanded off. Re-tape for each coat.

I am sure some progress has been made in coatings since the '80s, but the process is still the same as far as I know.

The other way I have heard to do a bass neck, I think maybe on Mike Lull's website, is to mask the sides and bottom of the neck and leave the tape sticking up above the fingerboard. Level the fretboard, pour a bunch of epoxy on (one thick coat instead of three) so there is a very thick layer, which you then shape basically from scratch the same way the wooden fretboard was shaped in the first place.

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Here's the latest. I ordered the RotDoctor Layup and Laminating epoxy because anecdotally it seems to be more flexible and adhering than petroleum-based resins. The extra cost wasn't that big a deal. Should be here in a day or two and then my luthier and I will do a test strip before attacking -

My old Ibanez SR506 6-string backup bass. The only reason it hasn't gotten gigged or practiced on more is because it's fretted. So I've decided to defret its superior 3-piece dual trussrod neck and have my new luthier friend do the epoxy job there first.

I already think highly of its noiseless pickups which are basically 3-string-per-half P-bass stylee put into a soapbar case. They sound as good as any other magnetic out there and better than many {subjective opinion, but based on good references ; }

Then I'm thinking of stripping the body clear coat, sanding down the top and having a figured grain wood top added and doing a fancy stain job much like the green I've seen on a bass of Jimmy Haslip. The top will be thin but figured; I don't want to impact its tonal character or its sustain.

Last on the list is to add a Graph Tech Ghost piezo setup along with their preamp. The preamp this particular year of SR506 came with is good and quiet (but has no passive bypass), but the Graph Tech Ghost system does Roland V-Bass 13-pin (and allows me to phantom power), and the piezos will likely improve the delivery to the V-Bass floor unit because of their superior string isolation.

I haven't found any way to get a great fretless 6-string bass with internal V-Bass driver that comes in for even 3 or 4 times the cost. I'll be doing this in steps while continuing to love practicing and gigging my Carvin fretless 5. Then it will likely get transmogrified as well.


.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,533
_
El Superfly Grande
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
El Superfly Grande
MP Hall of Fame Member
_
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,533
Quote:
Originally posted by greenboy:
...doing a fancy stain job much like the green I've seen on a bass of Jimmy Haslip...
Green?


spreadluv

Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars.
Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Got something against the shades and tones that signify envy and spring? ; }


.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,533
_
El Superfly Grande
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
El Superfly Grande
MP Hall of Fame Member
_
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,533
\:D

(BTW, I'm still curious to hear about someone trying the fiberglass technique that E discussed.)


spreadluv

Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars.
Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Just an example; I'd like black hardware and a deeper colored neck (which I shall have):


A different figuring, but still looks more like transparent paint:


This is getting closer but not quite what I had in mind (but that could be changing); here's one of Jack Read's masterpieces:


jack's has a certain combination of subtlety and flair. But doshgarn it! I'd seen more pictures of true stains in the tones I wanted, more variegated and less emerald, slightly toward deep olive, but more green than that. Guess I'll have to keep searching.


.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Sweet Willy,

If a different epoxy or poly had been chosen we well might have went with the fiberglass underneath. We discussed it, and some experience was mentioned that was positive. But the virgin-wood derived resins that RotDoctor L&L has already seem to provide some of the same advantages.


.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 616
B
Ben Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
B
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 616
Sounds like you're really going to do it up brown er, green, greenboy.

A few years back I defretted an inexpensive Fernandes 5 string, 34" and narrow-neck, that I didn't think sounded that great fretted. It was sort of my fiddle-around-with-hardware bass. The whole process took me maybe two and a half hours, start to finish, since I used superglue to put strips of mahogany in the fret slots and 5-minute epoxy for the surface. The very opposite of your careful approach. I don't recommend 5 minute epoxy, and the job I did is less than perfect looking, but I did get it contoured right. My son has decided this is his favorite bass, and it seems to be holding up fine, using it with Lakland flat strings.

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Yeah, Ben,

Early on in the discovery process I found that any quick setting epoxies were not the way to go... The way I see it, I'm going to end up with a custom 6-string fretless the way I want it, with piezos, some magnetics I like, and internal V-Bass control - with a super-stable neck whose profile and headstock I like.

Some guys are using RMC piezo systems to do the Roland-ready thing, but they are so overpriced.

Sounds like you made good use of a bass that wasn't really doing it for you. I'm kinda doing the same thing - the major difference being that this bass sounds great but I don't really care about fretted instruments.


.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,533
_
El Superfly Grande
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
El Superfly Grande
MP Hall of Fame Member
_
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,533
Queen Jealousy, envy waits behind him
Her fiery green gown sneers at the grassy ground...


If you got yet another bass, greenboy, I would think that shiny metallic purple would make a nice match for the green one... ;\)

Really, though, enjoy the journey. If you have any questions, just ask the axis.


spreadluv

Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars.
Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
It's only getting worse, Willy. After looking at Jimmy Haslip's green 6-string MTD in an old Bass Frontiers magazine {nice deep avacodo shade - got to make me some mex food! ; } ... well, I started looking at spalt tops. Yum again: texture and detail galore!

Now: if I could only grow all those extra Hindu appendages Jimi was sportin' - I'd be playing purp AND green simultaneously. Bold as love, baybeeeeeeee! ; }

Great lyrics there : }


.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Soon, off I go to my new luthier friend with two one-pint containers of what will blend to a fine wood-resin-based epoxy, and my soon-to-be-former-Ibanez, to discuss and get to work.

That's right! - UPS showed last night {poor guys are running very long workdays - thanks Santa, you equal opportunity employer ; } ... the good are here complete with copious intructions, tips, specs, and guarantees (great company, RotDoctor!).

I'm mildy excited. : |
 
   
 
  












... and bass is mildly low ; }


.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Awriighty. Drove even further out into the country than I live and met my luthier f2f for the first time, and saw his shop and some of his projects, repairs in progress, some wood samples, tools and forms, finished work, and photos of instruments he had built.

Had one hella nice acoustic guitar that was just about to be sold for $2800, beautiful woods, purfling, inlay, all clean in detail and execution. A cool hollow body electric body sitting partially built too, somewhat reminiscient of an f-hole Tellie but with a flowing hole on each bout. Very nice flow, could imagine a nice guitar built around it with absolutely no stretch of the mind's eye.

So I felt in good hands.

Then we opened my bass case, talked about the defretting and the lines, the markers, etc - and producing a test strip to get a handle on working the epoxy to best advantage.

Talked about capping the Ibanez body with various figured and semi-figured woods, what contour I wanted up near the "arm rest", and possibly extending the horn. The bass alrady balances pretty well but I wouldn't mind having it sit at closer to a 45 degree angle when totally unsupported with strap on a slick shirt. As we discussed how that could be done, it became clearer (I think I already knew this) that perhaps it would be easier to build a new body entirely, and cap that.

So I'm going to research shapes, and electronics layout so I can have my current magnetics, the Graph Tech piezos, and the Graph Tech Ghost preamp and 13-pin Roland stuff all sitting in good placement while the test strip and then the neck job gets accomplished.

A good time, and a fair amount to think about : }


.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,823
Moderator Emeritus
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,823
And so the project grows...

When you said that you were thinking about capping the body, I wondered about how that would be done. Would you cap what's there and alter the neck pocket to lift the neck? Would you "remove" a layer of top wood to "make room" for the cap? Now you don't have to worry about that !!

The luthier sounds like an experienced pro. I wonder how many of them are toiling away in obscurity (sorry - felt dramatic for a moment) - I think the internet has allowed many of these guys to step out in a way they couldn't have before.

Hope the test strip goes as planned.
Tom


www.stoneflyrocks.com
Acoustic Color

Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 616
B
Ben Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
B
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 616
I don't recommend 5 minute epoxy, either, but I was just fiddlin' around. And I didn't end up with a new body, either! ;\)

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Ben,

That body thing is still non-decided. Casey was mulling it over too. But if I wanted to extend the horn it would solve the problem of a visible joint where the extension joined the area where we would cut across the existing horn. Perfect grain matching, haha!

I didn't want to fool around with either of my basses because I'm more than satisfied with their tone, sustain, and playability. In the case of the Ibanez I think it's largely due to the quality of the neck, so I don't mind the idea of a new top on the body. But I do mind the idea of all the work depending on my patience ; }

Tom,

The top could actually go either way, with recessed bridge and less pickup showing. There would be no need to lift the neck higher in the pocket. But it would make for a heavier bass. The method I originally envisoned was to take 1/8" off the existing top, and Caey is weighing whether that, or making a new body would be more cost effective.

I am wondering if/when Casey Kent will think he needs a website. He seems to get work : }


.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,397
G
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,397
Greenboy,

I'd be wary of changing the body. While you think the tone lies within the neck, there is something to be said for body-neck mojo, especially with a bolt-on.

If you're satisfied with the tone, keep the body intact. Cosmetics be damned. As for an extended horn, you might be better off moving the bottom strap button up a bit. Worked wonders for my Warwick Thumb.

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Good point on the mojo. I was thinking I might not mind another mojo for awhile, but actually the current mojo is pretty damn mojo.

The balance is also pretty amazing considering it's a dual truss rod 6 string. No neck dive even on a silk shirt, I suspect. Since I never played this bass at gigs because of them doshgarn frets I never got around to putting two strap buttons on the bottom like I did with my other one. Not only did the upper bout one get the neck pointing a little upward but the lower bout one provides strain relief for the output cable.

The two together let it sit on the carpet without a stand and not tip over when leaned against something. Though I almost always use a stand ; }


.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,397
G
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,397
What's the update, G-man?

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Extremely slow cure times due to the holidays ; }

Seriously though: it does cure slow, and as a result perhaps, this Rot Doctor stuff self-levels incredibly smoothly and glossy, and it should end up being very nice. Now I wish I would have black-stained the rosewood first, but ... ; }


.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,265
Likes: 25
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,265
Likes: 25
So, gb, how goes the process?
I have one of my basses at a midpoint, frets are out, going to fill next. Just started a new job, so time is tight at the moment, but I"m most curious about your results, as I approach go time re: the finishing.
Thanks...

Peace,

wraub



I'm a lot more like I am now than I was when I got here.




Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
Same as above, Wraub. I'm assuming it's a coat every so often, and until I get impatient, I'm not bugging Casey or driving way way out there. The reports were very good on the first coat. The snowing and freeze/thaw/freeze is too extreme to want to run around much outside the more traveled areas and see the beauty getting deeper.

I'll update when I can : }


.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,265
Likes: 25
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,265
Likes: 25
Cool, thanks for the update (of sorts). It has been cold here as well, but I am pretty sure you have us beat.
I also dig the green clearcoat idea. Should look shweet!
Keep us posted...

Peace,

wraub



I'm a lot more like I am now than I was when I got here.




Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,533
_
El Superfly Grande
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
El Superfly Grande
MP Hall of Fame Member
_
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,533
Blankman: Any more news on the fretless 6 development?


spreadluv

Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars.
Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
I was supposed to pick it up a couple days ago but something came up. I'm waiting to hear back from him, hopefully soon today...


.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
We finally connected today. Got my baby back. The maple lines look good as they should; the nut is nicer; the 6 luscious layers of epoxy make what was once just another piece of rosewood (a wood which I've always been pretty blah about visually) look very much more dramatic in grain and color contrasts - and the glossy sheen is like the Thor pics of Rosewood jobs. Topnotch!

Now the important stuff: sounds like it sustains forever, is very sensitive to nuance, plays with very low action and seems destined to last almost forever. Much thicker - and thicker looking - than what you'd find on a polycoated Pedulla.

I'll brag about how it looks and sounds more. After I look at it and play it more : }}}}


.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,397
G
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,397
Sweetness.

Where are the sound clips?

Where are the pics? \:D

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,331
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,331
Wow, this is almost the exact same color as my old Modulus Prime 6



Hope the new coating is working for you. I've debated it, but I'm afraid to alter an instrument that much.

I think I subscribe to the Pino Palladino book, anyway: keep playing that fretless until you need to replace the fingerboard. I remember when BP did a cover story on him, and I think he said he's been through 3 or 4 fingerboards, and at the time had the fingerboard of an old double bass on his Stingray. I think I might try either another Pau Ferro board when it comes time to replace it, or maybe even go for a cocobola board.


Obligatory Social Media Link
"My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..."
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,789
... Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,789
I'd love to see it now that it's done. And play it.

Congrats man, I know you were dyin' to get that thing back!

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,533
_
El Superfly Grande
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
El Superfly Grande
MP Hall of Fame Member
_
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,533
To be frank...word.

(Looking forward to pics...)


spreadluv

Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars.
Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,823
Moderator Emeritus
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,823
Glad to hear the good news. Let's have the full sound report when you can.

Tom


www.stoneflyrocks.com
Acoustic Color

Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,160
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,160
H.G. Thor just sent me pictures of my recently-finished Alvarez RB30C acoustic-electric bass. It will be in the mail soon and I should have it sometime next week.





He said it actually took him longer and more work than he thought it would so he has updated his prices on his webpage, but he was cool enough to stick to the price he had quoted me at the beginning. Because the fretboard needed a little planing work, it came out to around $300 for the whole deal. Shipping from Utah to New York and back is a pain though!

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
I came in cheaper, even with it being a Six, and with the cost of my hoity-toity, made-with-pure-wood-resins epoxy, and maple strips for the lines.

I just got through tastelessly playing on the low B and the high C strings. Wow, this B is killin' - now I'm thinking bad thoughts like low F#. My V-Bass will give my upward register extension anyway...


.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
'Course, I didn't bother to get the photos last night. Maybe that's part of the Thor price* ; }... I s'pose I should take some and get a new scanner - or get a digital camera. But my bass has a few other things to happen yet...
 
 
* I can almost hear your freakin' when you discover that your ABG looks BETTER than the photos : }


.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
I saw two pieces of highly-figured mahogany last night, freshly sawn from a tree in Brazil. Incredible!

But the cost was $800. They are going into an acoustic guitar. Shame. Much of their thickness will become wood dust.


.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
I just moved this from another thread:

Quote:
DONUTHOLE: I sense a different energy in the coated fretboard on a Pedulla. More vibration given back to the string from the harder surface. Do you find that with your Ibanez compared to when It wasn't coated or with other uncoated boards? What did you use? How did you do it? If you did it,that is.
Hey, I had forgotten to reply here and talking to Willie on the phone last night the subject of epoxy came up and it reminded me.

A lot of people think "a glassier sound" when they see a coated 'board, but I think that's only one possibility. The thing is with fretless, that the way you press in and use your stopping fingers determines really how wide a range of tones and envelopes you can achieve. And the feel of that beneath the fingers also has some subtle influence on the way you think of it AS you play, I suppose. Anyway, the rwange of sounds is a little more sustained perhaps, when considering not only the fundamental, but the overtones. It's just a little more lively. Though realize that I come from ebony which I think is superior for a bare 'board.

I like the somewhat expanded - or shifted anyway - range of tones available, don't feel I've lost anything and have gained in an area I consider useful. So when my war horse of a Carvin needs a 'board leveling (could be any day now - its got gazillion of hours and a fair amount of roundwound use), I'll have my friendly local luthier (actually have found a few but this guy is great) use the same epoxy, which I think is a fantastic product because of its flexibility. I've seen epoxy on other necks, with split marks and chips, along the edges and from truss rod or expansion/shrinkage changes, so the flexibility this stuff has I think is a real asset.


.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
G
g. Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,021
I'm gonna have to photocop this neck when the strings are off. When I shoot it from any angle right now, I get too much mirroring - multiple images of the strings' reflections.


.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,200
A
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
A
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,200
Quote:
Originally posted by greenboy:
The thing is with fretless, that the way you press in and use your stopping fingers determines really how wide a range of tones and envelopes you can achieve.
Too many players associate the fretless sound with just slides, mwah, lyricism etc, and there is so much more to it than that. Because your fingers are stopping the note you have no much more control of the note's envelope, both in terms of the overall envelope and the envelopes of the individual harmonics. If you have a soft board, then you can only do so much to get more sustain, particularly of the higher overtones. If you have a hard board then you can let your left (and right) hand(s) control the damping you require.

My fretless has a polyurethane coating on the rosewood board. Not as hard as epoxy - probably not as hard as ebony - but it's holding up really well, especially considering the amateur job I did on defretting, filling, sanding and coating!

Alex

Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1
While as a Ph.D. Chemist I am quite interested in different coating to improve a fretless neck, I remain most enthusiastic about the possibility of using a ridiculously hard (and currently fairly cheap) wood to make the fretboard. I am speaking of Ipe (Tabebuia serratifolia), sometimes known as Brazilian Walnut.

Ipe is the king of the JANKA scale (which measures the pounds of force needed to push an 11.28mm ball bearing half way into the board) at a whopping 3680 lbs Granted this is a bit subjective but Ipe is easily 2.5 times harder than "hardrock" maple (Acer saccharum), and its commonly used for decks (until they empty the Rainforest). While its a bit green/brown it stains and polishes well and I've even found some nice figured pieces in a pile of decking. Get ready to use a TON of sandpaper and elbow grease to radius sand it, its a bit like sanding marble...

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 4,240
Likes: 444
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 4,240
Likes: 444
Originally Posted by tedmich
While as a Ph.D. Chemist I am quite interested in different coating to improve a fretless neck, I remain most enthusiastic about the possibility of using a ridiculously hard (and currently fairly cheap) wood to make the fretboard. I am speaking of Ipe (Tabebuia serratifolia), sometimes known as Brazilian Walnut.

Ipe is the king of the JANKA scale (which measures the pounds of force needed to push an 11.28mm ball bearing half way into the board) at a whopping 3680 lbs Granted this is a bit subjective but Ipe is easily 2.5 times harder than "hardrock" maple (Acer saccharum), and its commonly used for decks (until they empty the Rainforest). While its a bit green/brown it stains and polishes well and I've even found some nice figured pieces in a pile of decking. Get ready to use a TON of sandpaper and elbow grease to radius sand it, its a bit like sanding marble...


Great job resurrecting a zombie thread!!!! Your information about Ipe is interesting to me.
I recently converted a Warmoth Jazz neck to fretless, it has a black ebony fretboard. I filled the fret slots with white epoxy and carefully sanded everything down to 1200 grit, shiny and smooth.
I use Rotosound Trubass strings, they have a black outer surface (nylon) but are much more lively and bright than typical flatwound strings. No roundwound noise when you slide up or down and no wear and tear on the fretboard wood.


Every Time I Am Wrong, I Learn Something.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,586
Likes: 5
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,586
Likes: 5
.. hey, he got it in before passing the 16 year mark.

tedmich, I'm not saying that you are wrong in any way but one thing to consider with wood (or metal) is that hardest is not necessarily the best. Some things need a certain amount of "give" so they won't be brittle or cause other problems. One can also argue about "warmth" and weight which are subjective of course. You may also consider how things are affected by moisture, human and atmospheric, and how things age.

To summarize, as usual, I'm no help here.


If you think my playing is bad, you should hear me sing!
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,728
Likes: 2
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,728
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
q
I use Rotosound Trubass strings, they have a black outer surface (nylon) but are much more lively and bright than typical flatwound strings. No roundwound noise when you slide up or down and no wear and tear on the fretboard wood.

I also have tapes on my #1 fretless. Love it.

Here's a little fretless inside information: I have a low spot on the neck of two basses. I put some metal tape on the fingerboard at that spot, and problem fixed. The metal tape is for ducts....so it's "duct" tape, but it's not like the "Duck Tape" duct tape brand.
Much cheaper than sanding the whole thing down, and is reversible. Durability hasn't been an issue, even on my bass with GHS Brite Flats on it instead of nylon tape. YMMV, as my low spots are close to the nut and so string vibration hasn't been an issue in premature wear of the tape. But your low spot is probably in the same area, as that end of the stick is more sensitive to these kinds of things.

Color doesn't match, but so far nobody has asked my what's up with my bass....so situation normal.


Things are just the way they are, and they're only going to get worse.
https://soundcloud.com/paul-kempkes
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 4,240
Likes: 444
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 4,240
Likes: 444
Originally Posted by Paul K
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
q
I use Rotosound Trubass strings, they have a black outer surface (nylon) but are much more lively and bright than typical flatwound strings. No roundwound noise when you slide up or down and no wear and tear on the fretboard wood.

I also have tapes on my #1 fretless. Love it.

Here's a little fretless inside information: I have a low spot on the neck of two basses. I put some metal tape on the fingerboard at that spot, and problem fixed. The metal tape is for ducts....so it's "duct" tape, but it's not like the "Duck Tape" duct tape brand.
Much cheaper than sanding the whole thing down, and is reversible. Durability hasn't been an issue, even on my bass with GHS Brite Flats on it instead of nylon tape. YMMV, as my low spots are close to the nut and so string vibration hasn't been an issue in premature wear of the tape. But your low spot is probably in the same area, as that end of the stick is more sensitive to these kinds of things.

Color doesn't match, but so far nobody has asked my what's up with my bass....so situation normal.


No low spots here, Warmoth necks have a couple of steel (older like mine) or maybe now graphite - rods in the neck in addition to a substantial truss rod mechanism. Makes the neck a bit heavy but it is straight and has been straight since the late 80's. Plus being dense, it sounds better, more even response and sustain.


Every Time I Am Wrong, I Learn Something.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,728
Likes: 2
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,728
Likes: 2
Indeed, the tape thing is for one string in one fret position; not a whole-scale Buzzy-McBuzz.

I used to own a Warmoth bass, five string mongo huge neck. Totally great construction and attention to detail. And mine was heavy as a tank and NEVER needed seasonal truss rod adjustments.


Things are just the way they are, and they're only going to get worse.
https://soundcloud.com/paul-kempkes
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 4,240
Likes: 444
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 4,240
Likes: 444
Originally Posted by Paul K
Indeed, the tape thing is for one string in one fret position; not a whole-scale Buzzy-McBuzz.

I used to own a Warmoth bass, five string mongo huge neck. Totally great construction and attention to detail. And mine was heavy as a tank and NEVER needed seasonal truss rod adjustments.

I've used tape for other "repairs". Also, the "baking soda crazy glue trick" for nut slots that somehow are too deep.
And other evil kludges. If it works, it works.

My main giggers all have Warmoth necks - a Strat (I scalloped it), a Tele and a P-J bass. I've got a baritone Tele with a Warmoth neck as well.
Quality stuff for the most part.


Every Time I Am Wrong, I Learn Something.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,728
Likes: 2
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,728
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Also, the "baking soda crazy glue trick" for nut slots that somehow are too deep.
t.

Baking Soda and Crazy Glue is new to me. I've used pencil graphite and Crazy Glue. It was a total pain in the ass. Instead of building the slot higher it built the slot wider and I had to re-file it again anyway and do it all over. Currently I use a bit of wax paper for that hack.

In my #1 bass I put in a Warwick Adjustable Nut. Heaven, baby. All basses should come with that as standard. It's just better.


Things are just the way they are, and they're only going to get worse.
https://soundcloud.com/paul-kempkes
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 4,240
Likes: 444
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 4,240
Likes: 444
Originally Posted by Paul K
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Also, the "baking soda crazy glue trick" for nut slots that somehow are too deep.
t.

Baking Soda and Crazy Glue is new to me. I've used pencil graphite and Crazy Glue. It was a total pain in the ass. Instead of building the slot higher it built the slot wider and I had to re-file it again anyway and do it all over. Currently I use a bit of wax paper for that hack.

In my #1 bass I put in a Warwick Adjustable Nut. Heaven, baby. All basses should come with that as standard. It's just better.

I've never used baking soda and crazy glue to fix a bass nut. On a guitar, you pile up some baking soda with a toothpick until the slot has about 1/32" high or a little higher filling the nut slot. Then a drop or two of crazy glue, let it dry and re-file the slot. It's not ideal but sometimes the guitar needs played that evening and there isn't time to either shim the nut from the bottom or make a new one.

Contingency trick to keep the wheels on the wagon.


Every Time I Am Wrong, I Learn Something.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,265
Likes: 25
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,265
Likes: 25
I saw that trick in a Dan Erlewine tip in an old StewMac catalog. It really works.



I'm a lot more like I am now than I was when I got here.




Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5