Slow blues tuplets

[SMcD]

Hey fellow ivory-tinklers!

 

I've been working on some blues organ stuff, and have noticed that in a lot of slower tunes, you hear fast keyboard runs that don't really fit into particularly "nice" subdivisions of the beat. Obviously the slower tempo gives cats more space to let lines stretch/breathe. Certainly this isn't a blues-only thing (Coltrane's "walls of sound" come to mind) but that's the context I'm dealing with right now.

 

Clonk for an example at around the 5:14 mark (sorry, this album isn't on YouTube yet so Spotify is the best way to share it). I've been beating my head against the wall trying to figure out what kind of tuplet/polyrhythm that organ line is, but just can't crack it.

 

How would you folks go about developing intuition for this kind of thing? Sometimes I find myself trying lines like this, only to fall right off the beat. I have a sneaking suspicion I could be overthinking this - maybe it's not even intended to be any particular rhythm (like a cascading series of grace notes). But I'm not sure, and would love to be able to replicate this type of thing without stumbling over myself.

 

I've waited until embarrassingly long into my playing career to start thinking about polyrhythms, so this is all largely uncharted territory to me!

[BbAltered]

To get you started, try this every day. Set your metronome to 40 bpm. Play a scale (2 octaves) of eight notes up and down. Without stopping play the same 2 octave scales up and down with swing eight notes. Without stopping, play the same scale now 3 octaves up and down of quarter-note triplets. Without stopping, play the same scale now 4 octaves up and down of sixteenth notes. Without stopping, play the same scale now 4 octaves up and down of swing sixteenth notes. Without stopping, play the same scale again 3 octaves up and down of eight-note triplets. Without stopping, play the same scale now 4 octaves up and down with 32th notes. Without stopping, play the same scale now 4 octaves up and down of swing 32th notes.

 

If so minded, you can also work on scales playing 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 notes to a beat.

 

Have fun.

[SMcD]

Thanks for the advice! That's a great exercise.

Currently struggling with the part where you move from eighth-note triplets to straight 32nds. I've just started getting serious about drilling the 3-on-4 (and 4-on-3) polyrhythms into myself, and that jump from 3 to 8 is a bit fast for a guy who's still saying "pass the g*d-damn butter" out loud.

Is there a nice mnemonic like that for 8-against-3 for that transition? Perhaps it will get easier as I continue to internalize the 4-against-3.

 

 

[BbAltered]

Thanks for the advice! That's a great exercise.

Currently struggling with the part where you move from eighth-note triplets to straight 32nds. I've just started getting serious about drilling the 3-on-4 (and 4-on-3) polyrhythms into myself, and that jump from 3 to 8 is a bit fast for a guy who's still saying "pass the g*d-damn butter" out loud.

Is there a nice mnemonic like that for 8-against-3 for that transition? Perhaps it will get easier as I continue to internalize the 4-against-3.

 

 

Yep - that's a tuff one. Keep at it because it gets better with practice. My promise to you. I myself prefer "Tenn-es-see" for triplets, and "Mis-sis-sip-pi" for fours. I then slowly bang on a table at a steady pace while saying "Tennessee" and "Mississippi" in time - no piano needed. My mnemonic for 3 against 4 is "Look, a frog, in, the pond": the hand doing 3s hits on "look", "frog", and "the"; the hand doing 4s hits on "look", "a", "in", and "pond".

[El Lobo]

Clonk for an example at around the 5:14 mark (sorry, this album isn't on YouTube yet so Spotify is the best way to share it). !

Sorry, but there might be something wrong with the Clonk or what I'm doing. It goes to an album cut that doesn't go to 5:14 -- it takes me to Pocket Full Of Nothin' by Big Dave McClean, Songs Of The Blues that's only 3:56 long. Is that where I should be?

 

Edit: maybe you meant to go to the highlighted track "Just To Be With You" which is 5:47 long. I hear a quick, short sort of descending organ run at about 5:14. Is that what you're referring to? That just sounds to me like a fast run that's not about timing, more like a squabble. (I may not be using that term correctly.) I wouldn't think too much about timing, it's more about feel. And it doesn't have to be perfect.

 

[El Lobo]

I have a sneaking suspicion I could be overthinking this - maybe it's not even intended to be any particular rhythm (like a cascading series of grace notes). But I'm not sure, and would love to be able to replicate this type of thing without stumbling over myself.!

If I've got the right place to listen, then yes, I think you may be right about overthinking. And you're right that it's not intended to be any particular rhythm - just to fit in the space available and end on the beat. However you get there is fine. But I do think it's much more about feel than timing.

 

[MAJUSCULE]

Yeah, just make sure your arrival points are solid. Keep it on the one, as Bootsy would say. The middle of the beat will sort itself out as you do it more. You gotta feeeeel it.

[SMcD]

Yep - that's a tuff one. Keep at it because it gets better with practice. My promise to you. I myself prefer "Tenn-es-see" for triplets, and "Mis-sis-sip-pi" for fours. I then slowly bang on a table at a steady pace while saying "Tennessee" and "Mississippi" in time - no piano needed. My mnemonic for 3 against 4 is "Look, a frog, in, the pond": the hand doing 3s hits on "look", "frog", and "the"; the hand doing 4s hits on "look", "a", "in", and "pond".

 

I'll try the Tennessee/Mississippi thing (bonus - a nice generalization to quintuplets with "Minneapolis" ). Hopefully that makes it easier to double up the 4 for the 32nd-note part of the exercise.

I found

extremely useful for the three-against-four. After years of using mnemonics that put the strong beats on the 3, "pass butter to the left" was a revelation for feeling it on the 4 beats instead.

 

 

Edit: maybe you meant to go to the highlighted track "Just To Be With You" which is 5:47 long. I hear a quick, short sort of descending organ run at about 5:14. Is that what you're referring to? That just sounds to me like a fast run that's not about timing, more like a squabble. (I may not be using that term correctly.) I wouldn't think too much about timing, it's more about feel. And it doesn't have to be perfect.

Yup, that's the one.

 

Thanks for the great advice, folks! The thing to work on now is forcing myself to keep the beat in my head so I can consistently stick the landing on the "squabbles".