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Posted By: davinwv GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/26/21 03:51 PM
Wow - the iOS users get all the cool toys (until now)!

https://fb.watch/4tLeLJtJxa/

Please release this, GSi!
Posted By: ElmerJFudd Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/26/21 04:28 PM
Ha nice. If anyone picks it up let us know what latency is like and what model phone you’re running it on.
Posted By: Sven Golly Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/26/21 04:34 PM
This, sadly, will likely never see the light of day. There's a very good reason there are very few MIDI/Audio options on the Android platform.... and there's no way GSi is going to be able to support every single variant of every single OS and hardware combination out there. It's a nice little experiment (and, if you read closely, you'll see that there is NO commitment to actually release it), but I don't see it making it to production status.

I hope I'm wrong, of course, but I don't see it happening. Happy to have to retract this post at a future date, though. 2thu
Posted By: davinwv Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/26/21 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by Sven Golly
This, sadly, will likely never see the light of day. There's a very good reason there are very few MIDI/Audio options on the Android platform.... and there's no way GSi is going to be able to support every single variant of every single OS and hardware combination out there. It's a nice little experiment (and, if you read closely, you'll see that there is NO commitment to actually release it), but I don't see it making it to production status.

I hope I'm wrong, of course, but I don't see it happening. Happy to have to retract this post at a future date, though. 2thu

Sub-10ms RT audio latency on Android will definitely happen sooner versus later:

https://9to5google.com/2021/03/05/google-android-audio-latency/

I currently play IKMs iGrand & iLectric on my Pixel 4XL with that type of latency, but this is a flagship phone. The Samsung S10e in the test video is far from flagship specs, but it seems to be working fine.

I don't want to start a platform war here, but this is largely a perception issue with mobile music software developers. Much the same as the old "you need a Mac for music" argument was. We see how that turned out . . .
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/26/21 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by davinwv
The Samsung S10e in the test video is far from flagship specs, but it seems to be working fine.
Samsung has long been better for MIDI than the typical Android phone, see for example...

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2014/10/02/samsung-real-time-audiomidi-solution-for-android/

... and that's from 2014. I think the problem there has been that developers haven't wanted to commit resources to develop Android apps that only work well on one brand of phone. If Google makes that kind of performance more useful, that should help. But Apple does have a 10 year jump on them. (CoreMIDI became part of iOS with version 5, which came out in 2011.)

Originally Posted by davinwv
Much the same as the old "you need a Mac for music" argument was. We see how that turned out . . .
It turned out as expected. You can fuss with a PC, or have it "just work" on a Mac. ;-)
Posted By: davinwv Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/26/21 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by davinwv
The Samsung S10e in the test video is far from flagship specs, but it seems to be working fine.
Samsung has long been better for MIDI than the typical Android phone, see for example...

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2014/10/02/samsung-real-time-audiomidi-solution-for-android/

... and that's from 2014. I think the problem there has been that developers haven't wanted to commit resources to develop Android apps that only work well on one brand of phone. If Google makes that kind of performance more useful, that should help. But Apple does have a 10 year jump on them. (CoreMIDI became part of iOS with version 5, which came out in 2011.)

Originally Posted by davinwv
Much the same as the old "you need a Mac for music" argument was. We see how that turned out . . .
It turned out as expected. You can fuss with a PC, or have it "just work" on a Mac. ;-)

I"ve never "fussed" with my PCs, and they have worked just fine for low latency recording and live performances with no hardware backups for the past 13 years. I'm not missing anything by not being on a Mac, and I haven't even yet made the jump to a TB audio interface yet.

Horses for courses, I guess.
Posted By: roygBiv Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/26/21 07:24 PM
I wonder if they are developing this so they can offer a cheaper organ module that is based on a cheaper (Samsung) Tablet running Android/Linux and VB3?.

Would make sense from a product development aspect - leverage the mass produced/ cheaper parts of the module to keep costs down, and continue focusing on their excellent skill set in software-based music instrument emulation.

Basically, a (potentially) cheaper GSi Gemini?
Posted By: davinwv Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/26/21 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by roygBiv
I wonder if they are developing this so they can offer a cheaper organ module that is based on a cheaper (Samsung) Tablet running Android/Linux and VB3?.

Would make sense from a product development aspect - leverage the mass produced/ cheaper parts of the module to keep costs down, and continue focusing on their excellent skill set in software-based music instrument emulation.

Basically, a (potentially) cheaper GSi Gemini?

You might be correct. This makes a lot of sense.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/26/21 08:04 PM
Gemini is a whole lot more than VB3. (And the app has an old version of VB3, besides.)
Posted By: roygBiv Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/26/21 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Gemini is a whole lot more than VB3. (And the app has an old version of VB3, besides.)

Of course.
But one has to start somewhere when testing proof of principles.
Starting with an older version of VB3 makes sense (if you can't get that to run, good luck with their more advanced software packages).

Anyway, just speculation on my part - I would love to have a VB3 in hardware (speaking as someone that has VB3, VB3 II and also a hardware Burn unit).
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/26/21 09:01 PM
Vb3 is super good. But it has a couple of problems like how the distortion is gainstaged. It makes it hard to get the right amount of overdrive without this crackling. Usually using the expression and drive I can get something I can use but if it were done better it would be awesome.

But. I believe the post said the android version wasn't vb3 or Vb3II but some sort of vb3.3 . That's alot of work to do to not end up releasing it. I just hope the distortion is better.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/28/21 01:41 PM
He is going to release it. Posted this morning on facebook:
Quote
It's running in the iPhone simulator! We're struggling to have it run on a real iPad... it's a first for us, but if things won't get harder than this, we might decide to release it for both platforms. Right now, we have decided to release it for Android. It will use "Oboe" which is a system that automatically selects the best latency settings for any compatible Android devices, and on most modern devices the latency is below 10 milliseconds.
I'll be curious to see how he prices it. I wonder if the willingness to develop for mobile was influenced by IK proving that people are willing to pay the same kind of money he charges for desktop apps.
Posted By: davinwv Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/28/21 02:45 PM
Looks like they will release for Android. And AnotherScott - this post says that VB3m's latency is under 10ms on most modern Android devices:

https://www.facebook.com/532502670174279/posts/3816684415089405/?sfnsn=mo
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/28/21 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by davinwv
Looks like they will release for Android. And AnotherScott - this post says that VB3m's latency is under 10ms on most modern Android devices
yup, I posted that info in the post above yours. ;-)
Posted By: davinwv Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/28/21 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by davinwv
Looks like they will release for Android. And AnotherScott - this post says that VB3m's latency is under 10ms on most modern Android devices
yup, I posted that info in the post above yours. ;-)

Haha - I posted before I refreshed Chrome.
Posted By: dickiefunk Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/28/21 09:05 PM
Looks like it’s coming to iOS as well.
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 03/31/21 12:06 AM
I'm really starting to dig this. For quick gigs I use my PC3 with the Voce and Vent. I was looking to replace the Voce with an organ module, looking at either HX3, mojo desktop or viscount EXP. HX3 (no drawbars) is the cheapest at $700. I can purchase a separate used phone to run this app, and with an OTP plug connector and a Roland UM-ONE mk2 USB MIDI Interface ( total investment $90) + the cost of the app can replace and upgrade my Voce unit for $200(?) in total. I'm really digging this option....
Posted By: dickiefunk Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 07:01 AM
I have been thinking about picking up B3X but this is iPad only and isn’t available for phones. It looks like VB3 v2 will be available for phones which is quite important to me as my iPad will be used for controlling my digital mixer. Pretty much all the apps that I’m interested in buying to create a mobile sound module are available for the iPhone with B3X being the exception. I do prefer the sound of B3X but the Rotary in VB3 v2 is certainly a step up form the YC61.
Ideally I would prefer if Yamaha sorted out the rotary in the YC as I really like the overall Hammond sound a lot!
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 11:41 AM
Originally Posted by dickiefunk
I have been thinking about picking up B3X but this is iPad only and isn’t available for phones. It looks like VB3 v2 will be available for phones which is quite important to me
Another advantage of this over B3X is that, unlike IK Mutimedia, Guido is responsive to support and feature requests.
Posted By: kwyn Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 12:55 PM
Just downloaded. Haven’t tried it out yet with my Legend but sounds great on touch screen.

As of now though, no midi learn. The midi map seems to be not editable.

I downloaded on iOS (phone and iPad)

Also, maybe it's just me and i haven't played vb3 ii in a long time but I like the Leslie on this app much better!
Posted By: Groove On Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 02:01 PM
Wow amaze-balls, that was fast. I just downloaded too US$13.99 It works on both iPad and iPhone. Yah, no MIDI learn, but, all the CC mappings are neatly listed under the Help tab.

Notes: On my iPhone 7 Plus over LE-MIDI, I’m experiencing small audio glitches that sound like x-runs in Pianoteq (when the CPU gets overloaded). Anyone else getting similar or different results?
Posted By: kwyn Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 02:23 PM
The mappings may be listed, but with the legend where you can't change what is being sent out and on vb3m where I can't change the midi mapping, it's pretty pointless for me right now. I'm sure they'll add midi learn or at least editing in the future though. For now, I can't use it frown
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by kwyn
Just downloaded. Haven’t tried it out yet with my Legend but sounds great on touch screen.

As of now though, no midi learn. The midi map seems to be not editable.

I downloaded on iOS (phone and iPad)

Also, maybe it's just me and i haven't played vb3 ii in a long time but I like the Leslie on this app much better!

do you have the download link? I don't see it.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 02:28 PM
I suppose that, until CCs become editable, if you want to control it from a clone with its own fixed CC drawbar assignments, you could probably use an app like Keystage to remap the incoming MIDI CCs to whatever it is that VB3m wants to see. I know that people have done that to get the Roland VR-09's sysex drawbars to send CCs to B-3X, this should be simpler.
Posted By: kwyn Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
I suppose that, until CCs become editable, if you want to control it from a clone with its own fixed CC drawbar assignments, you could probably use an app like Keystage to remap the incoming MIDI CCs to whatever it is that VB3m wants to see. I know that people have done that to get the Roland VR-09's sysex drawbars to send CCs to B-3X, this should be simpler.

I did that for b3x a while back using midiflow but that added substantial latency.
Posted By: drawback Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 02:37 PM
Just downloaded and will play with it later. I see it’s just 7 MB, unreal since B-3X is 1.1 GB! There’s quite a bit of work ahead - design/interface shortcomings need some maturity but I have faith that eventually things will come around. Meanwhile I’ll keep on supporting Guido - another bold achievement for one guy.
Posted By: miden Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by Groove On
.........I just downloaded too US$13.99 It works on both iPad and iPhone.....

From where? I cannot find it on App Store..
Posted By: drawback Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by miden
Originally Posted by Groove On
.........I just downloaded too US$13.99 It works on both iPad and iPhone.....

From where? I cannot find it on App Store..

Search for VB3m. First thing needs to be fixed is the avatar.
Posted By: Groove On Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 02:40 PM
Originally Posted by Groove On
Notes: On my iPhone 7 Plus over BLE-MIDI, I’m experiencing small audio glitches that sound like x-runs in Pianoteq (when the CPU gets overloaded). Anyone else getting similar or different results?
So good news, it plays beautifully on my 1st generation iPad Air, but, on the iPhone 7 Plus, I’m getting audio glitches, like I’m overloading the CPU or something.(through both USB-MIDI and BLE-MIDI). But, it’s works fine on the old iPad!
Posted By: Groove On Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by drawback
Originally Posted by miden
Originally Posted by Groove On
.........I just downloaded too US$13.99 It works on both iPad and iPhone.....
From where? I cannot find it on App Store..
Search for VB3m. First thing needs to be fixed is the avatar.

Search for ‘GSi VB3’ in the App Store.
Posted By: miden Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 06:34 PM
nope, mustn't be on the Oz App store yet??
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 06:42 PM
In ca usa found it at kvr but it wont download. No trace at the play store. It may have been pulled or something.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 06:56 PM
Well I’m very surprised. I’m sure Guido said he would never develop stuff for iPad. But there it is on the App Store for iPhone too. This is great news. Perhaps he will port the EPs and other virtual instruments from the Gemini? Like the Korg Module ... just buy the add ons you want. Go for it Guido! Now off to DL.
Posted By: bjosko Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 07:18 PM
Downloaded.
No deepdive tweaking possible, but plays very well out of the box, especially for the price keys2
Posted By: dickiefunk Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 07:28 PM
Bought this earlier today smile Great to have a quality Hammond for my phone and at such a reasonable price!!
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by kwyn
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
I suppose that, until CCs become editable, if you want to control it from a clone with its own fixed CC drawbar assignments, you could probably use an app like Keystage to remap the incoming MIDI CCs to whatever it is that VB3m wants to see. I know that people have done that to get the Roland VR-09's sysex drawbars to send CCs to B-3X, this should be simpler.

I did that for b3x a while back using midiflow but that added substantial latency.
Ah, I think I saw your facebook post about this. I wonder if Keystage might be able to do it with less latency...?
Posted By: kwyn Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by kwyn
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
I suppose that, until CCs become editable, if you want to control it from a clone with its own fixed CC drawbar assignments, you could probably use an app like Keystage to remap the incoming MIDI CCs to whatever it is that VB3m wants to see. I know that people have done that to get the Roland VR-09's sysex drawbars to send CCs to B-3X, this should be simpler.

I did that for b3x a while back using midiflow but that added substantial latency.
Ah, I think I saw your facebook post about this. I wonder if Keystage might be able to do it with less latency...?

Does the keystage free edition do this? Is it easy? I spent hours working it out on midflow.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 09:41 PM
Neat trick for changing the drawbars on the Keyboard screen - just start swiping in the grey bar above the keyboard. You have to imagine where the drawbars are but it's quite easy once you get used to it - quite tactile.

Sounds good - I'm assuming this is the code from VB3-II. Latency is automatically taken care of. I'm running it on an ancient iPad Mini 2 and I can't detect any noticeable latency. Compare this to B3-X which will run but needs to be set at 256 and most of the outboard FX have to be turned off - so not a worker.

Couple of issues at the moment:

I get the odd click - even when running on a fast iPad. It's not clipping and it doesn't break up like you get with low latency settings. Just a glitch of some sort.
It does not appear as Midi destination in apps like MidiFlow - required if you want remap the CCs.

Early days but very happy to have VB3 as an alternative to B3-X.
Posted By: To B3 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 10:56 PM
Downloaded it and it sounds great! The fixed midi learn is a bummer, hope that it gets ajustable soon.

I´m looking forward to try on my 2005 Korg Cx3, but it´s not with me right now. I didnt find the MIDI CC on th Korg CX3 on the manual, anyone knows where I can find it to see if it´s compatible with the Midi implementation on the VB3m?
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by kwyn
Does the keystage free edition do this? Is it easy? I spent hours working it out on midflow.
I've never done this kind of thing myself. The demonstration I saw of the Roland sysex-to-cc conversions looked not so easy, but I would guess that CC-to-CC is probably easier. IIRC, you need the full edition of Keystage to have all the MIDI functions, but there is a demo period that temporarily unlocks all the advanced version in the free version, I believe. The developer is very good at providing support, too.
Posted By: kwyn Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/01/21 11:32 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by kwyn
Does the keystage free edition do this? Is it easy? I spent hours working it out on midflow.
I've never done this kind of thing myself. The demonstration I saw of the Roland sysex-to-cc conversions looked not so easy, but I would guess that CC-to-CC is probably easier. IIRC, you need the full edition of Keystage to have all the MIDI functions, but there is a demo period that temporarily unlocks all the advanced version in the free version, I believe. The developer is very good at providing support, too.

As always, thanks Scott! I’ll give it a shot. I should be practicing the actual tunes though for my first gig in over a year coming up Saturday instead of tweaking sounds! 🤣🤣
Posted By: miden Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 12:21 AM
I sent an email to GSI asking about Australian App Store access...no reply yet.
Posted By: jyrkik Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 08:03 AM
Hi,

As a proud and satisfied owner of Mojo 61 and Mojo Classic I just downloaded the iOS app also. Sounds great as ever and plays well. Unfortunately, I get occasional but annoying cracks with both my iOS devises, iPhone 6 and iPad Air 2. For me it definitely sounds to be a buffer setting issue, but as there apparently is no way to adjust these for this app, I can`t tell for sure. I`m not exactly up to buying a new device just to test if a faster processor would cure the problem..

Too bad, this issue makes the app about useless for me. I really hope it can be sorted out in some near future fix release as otherwise the app would be just cool. It sounds great! Or maybe my idevices just are too old to run the up? Wonder what kind of experiences other early adopters get.

Guido, this hasn`t anything to do with the release date, hasn`t it?

Jyrki
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 08:28 AM
Originally Posted by To B3
Downloaded it and it sounds great! The fixed midi learn is a bummer, hope that it gets ajustable soon.

I´m looking forward to try on my 2005 Korg Cx3, but it´s not with me right now. I didnt find the MIDI CC on th Korg CX3 on the manual, anyone knows where I can find it to see if it´s compatible with the Midi implementation on the VB3m?

One big reason I regret selling mine as every CC can be customised. Select Global then Group 5 etc Input the new number for each drawbar.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 08:40 AM
Originally Posted by jyrkik
Hi,

As a proud and satisfied owner of Mojo 61 and Mojo Classic I just downloaded the iOS app also. Sounds great as ever and plays well. Unfortunately, I get occasional but annoying cracks with both my iOS devises, iPhone 6 and iPad Air 2. For me it definitely sounds to be a buffer setting issue, but as there apparently is no way to adjust these for this app, I can`t tell for sure. I`m not exactly up to buying a new device just to test if a faster processor would cure the problem..

Too bad, this issue makes the app about useless for me.

Jyrki
As I mentioned earlier I am running it on a 2014 iPad Mini and get exactly the same performance (and clicks) compared to the family 6th Gen ipad (2018) which has a much faster chip. It will just need tweaking. This is s new OS for GSi so I’m sure later revisions will have more settings. Background audio On/Off, MIDI channel and port select are few options that come to mind.

I think the process of submitting updates to the App Store is a bit of a pain too.
Posted By: jyrkik Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 09:59 AM
Yes,

I'm also confident that, knowing the great track record of the developer, these issues will eventually be sortef out.

Jyrki
Posted By: Bill W Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 10:51 AM
I got it too - runs great on my 4 year old iPad pro. Hopefully Guido will add the ability to save presets in a future version.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 11:16 AM
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
I’m sure later revisions will have more settings. Background audio On/Off
As it is now, is it always on, or always off?
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 11:44 AM
At the mo the app works in the background. Apps like Korg Module have the option to run in the background or not. I like this feature as I can just switch manually and avoid using another app to route MIDI to them. A typical example for me is Model D and Korg Module. It might seem basic but having used apps like MidiFlow and iMidiPatchbay that extra layer is just another thing to worry about if you are thinking about using them live.

[Edit] None of this is an issue though with a good controller keyboard. It's just how I use the iPad with a Nord Electro 6 which has a poor MIDI imp.

Not an issue in the studio just give them different MIDI channels and turn Background Audio on. BTW running these apps with IDAM is a breeze compared to my old iConnectMidi2.
Posted By: Groove On Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
I’m sure later revisions will have more settings. Background audio On/Off
As it is now, is it always on, or always off?
Out of the box, I’ve been using VB3 with Korg Module + Soft & Funk Drummer on my iPad. They’ve been playing very nicely together, no matter which app is in the foreground. Looks pretty solid and makes a nice well rounded set of sounds.

Oddly enough it’s working perfect on my 1st gen. iPad Air, but audio is glitching on the iPhone 7 Plus. Must be something Apple implemented in the software on later models. I’ll try the neweriPad mini as soon as I get mine back.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by Groove On
Oddly enough it’s working perfect on my 1st gen. iPad Air, but audio is glitching on the iPhone 7 Plus.
How is your battery health on the iPhone? By default, iPhones throttle back the performance once the battery health is below 80% (iPads apparently don't have this issue.). The throttling persists even if you have the phone plugged in and charging. At some point in the OS updates, they added an option to turn off that throttling, but then the phone can start shutting off at any time without notice. So once the battery health falls below 80%, you really need to replace the battery to maintain performance.
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 02:27 PM
I'm surprised it's been released as is. If Guido planned on making additional changes (adding variable CC's to the drawbars, leslie control, etc.) vs. the fixed CC's and fix the crackling issues with iOS, I would have suspected he would address these issues before releasing. Proper developmental protocol typically dictates removing the known bugs before productionizing. Knowing that fixed CC's won't cut it and perhaps would limit sales because if your controller is incapable of adjusting its own drawbars and other controllers to match his Fixed CC controllers then that impacts commercialization. I'm a little dumbfounded by the strategy here of the release vs. the limitations and the bitching that will ensue regarding those limitations. My controller is already setup to run against the fixed CC's as my PC3 is already mapped to VB3 in the Gemini, so it should just work for me; if it doesn't my controller can accomodate making any changes necessary from a CC perspective. Not all controllers have the flexibility that the PC3 has, so I don't agree with his early release strategy, but hey what the hell do I know....
Posted By: miden Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 02:57 PM
It's now available on the Oz App Store smile just made a purchase. $22 down here.
Posted By: davinwv Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 06:10 PM
I still don't see it on the Google Play Store (which is strange because Guido developed the Android version first.
Posted By: miden Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by davinwv
I still don't see it on the Google Play Store (which is strange because Guido developed the Android version first.

This is on his website:

[Linked Image]

Attached picture Vb3m.JPG
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 07:19 PM
All we need now is a good android mellotron that can run in tandem with vb3m. That is assuming the android vb3m is all It should be.

Streetly are you listening?
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/02/21 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Proper developmental protocol typically dictates removing the known bugs before productionizing.
While software often has bugs, I'm not sure we've seen any in VB3m. We'll have to see how widespread the crackling thing is. Looking at facebook comments, I'm not seeing many problems reported. One person who did reprt crackles says his other apps (Ravenscroft, Sampletank) crackle too, so in that case, it's not specifically a VB3m thing.

As for the other, sure, we want to see CC remapping, and hopefully it will come before too long. But regardless, I suspect there are people glad to have this for $14, and Guido is probably glad to make money from it, win-win. It's not like it's a useless app without that feature. Anyone with a controller or workstation-style board that lets you map the sliders can use it (though it would be better if the App store product description made that clear, which could be done in a "positive" way rather than presenting it as a limitation), as can anyone content to use the screen for adjustments. (Heck, the organ in Garageband doesn't let you use MIDI to adjust its sliders at all, and it's permanently in MIDI OMNI mode, and this is after ten years!)
Posted By: To B3 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 12:37 AM
Whoa! Didnt know that, thanks. Cant wait to get my hands on the CX3 and put the two things together. The knobs and buttons can be configured too?

To Mojo Owners that already downloaded it: does the VB3m sound the same as the "original" present on the Mojo?

Originally Posted by ChazKeys
Originally Posted by To B3
Downloaded it and it sounds great! The fixed midi learn is a bummer, hope that it gets ajustable soon.

I´m looking forward to try on my 2005 Korg Cx3, but it´s not with me right now. I didnt find the MIDI CC on th Korg CX3 on the manual, anyone knows where I can find it to see if it´s compatible with the Midi implementation on the VB3m?

One big reason I regret selling mine as every CC can be customised. Select Global then Group 5 etc Input the new number for each drawbar.
Posted By: ImproKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 07:49 AM
As for now I can not A/B the App and my Mojo Classic. But to my ears it is very close. Well, it just sounds really good.
Posted By: jyrkik Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 07:59 AM
Hi,

Armed with the good advices from the earlier posts in this thread, I made some more trials with the vb3m iOS. Put the idevice to flight mode, shut down the bluetooth and charged the battery full.. Now, this clearly helps - no cracks or pops anymore. However, the latency was noticeable and begun to annoy me after some time spent playing. I did control the app with my Mojo Suitcase and it was therefore easy to compare the performance of the app running in the iPAD and in the Mojo HW. Both do sound the same, that is very good indeed, but playability is sluggish with the app.

Determined to sort out my Hammond sound needs in the SW rig, I then bit the bullet and puchased the IK Multimedia B-3x. Its ten times the price, but...well. Turned out that it works perfectly with my aging iPad Air 2. No cracks whatsoever, no noticeable latency with Mojo as a controller. How do the sounds and playability compare then? I`d say they are very much on par, B-3x maybe having a slight edge in the leslie simulation. If the vb3m iOS eventually gets sorted out, I`d happily recommend it to anybody - no need to pay the Hammond brand premium.

This experiment also made it clear how important a good physical controller is for organ playing experience. The Mojo just works!

Jyrki
Posted By: John Lee Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 09:29 AM
I bought this and while it sounds good, the fixed CCs makes it difficult to use with either my Electro or Hammond SK2 as I can’t control the swell or Leslie speed. Changing the Leslie speed via the touchscreen seems a bit hit and miss. I think they could at least have offered option to alternate the CCs for Leslie speed between 1 or 64 and the swell between either 7 or 11 as the Korg Module does.

I’ve been a long time fan and user of VB3 on the Mac and a mainstay of my live rig consisted of VB3 running it on a VMachine, if anyone remembers that, but the iOS version seems a bit rushed and half baked to me. For the first time ever I’ve gone through Apple’s process to get a refund on an app.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 10:26 AM
Originally Posted by To B3
Whoa! Didnt know that, thanks. Cant wait to get my hands on the CX3 and put the two things together. The knobs and buttons can be configured too?

To Mojo Owners that already downloaded it: does the VB3m sound the same as the "original" present on the Mojo?

I think Global/Group 6 does the buttons.

From the GSi Facebook page "it's a mix between the UI elements of VB3-II but with the sound engine of the old VB3 1.4, with a new Bass/Treble EQ and the reverb algorithm of the first Mojo."
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 10:42 AM
Originally Posted by John Lee
I bought this and while it sounds good, the fixed CCs makes it difficult to use with either my Electro or Hammond SK2 as I can’t control the swell or Leslie speed. Changing the Leslie speed via the touchscreen seems a bit hit and miss. I think they could at least have offered option to alternate the CCs for Leslie speed between 1 or 64 and the swell between either 7 or 11 as the Korg Module does.

I’ve been a long time fan and user of VB3 on the Mac and a mainstay of my live rig consisted of VB3 running it on a VMachine, if anyone remembers that, but the iOS version seems a bit rushed and half baked to me. For the first time ever I’ve gone through Apple’s process to get a refund on an app.

I agree with you that it seems a bit rushed. But this is GSi's first release on iOS and when the Korg Module was first realeased that didn't support customisable CCs either. BTW Korg Odyssei still doesn't support custom CCs years after it's release.

I'm betting V1.1 will address this.
Posted By: miden Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 03:39 PM
I've had an email chat with Guido, and he said that he MIGHT add some channel selection (upper lower pedal) and perhaps editable CC's, but that would be about it for this app.

On the issue of crackling, I've had had none here. (iPad Pro 12" 2nd gen)
Posted By: drawback Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by miden
I've had an email chat with Guido, and he said that he MIGHT add some channel selection (upper lower pedal) and perhaps editable CC's, but that would be about it for this app.

Hopefully Guido will remain true to form and keep growing/improving this app despite what he says now.
Posted By: kwyn Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by miden
I've had an email chat with Guido, and he said that he MIGHT add some channel selection (upper lower pedal) and perhaps editable CC's, but that would be about it for this app.

On the issue of crackling, I've had had none here. (iPad Pro 12" 2nd gen)

Well I just had an email chat with Apple. Actually just a refund request
If editable CCs are a maybe, then maybe I’ll repurchase
For now that’s a deal breaker for me. Too bad because I really like the sound
Posted By: jyrkik Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by miden
I've had an email chat with Guido, and he said that he MIGHT add some channel selection (upper lower pedal) and perhaps editable CC's, but that would be about it for this app.

On the issue of crackling, I've had had none here. (iPad Pro 12" 2nd gen)

Of course a developer/manufacturer has full rights to design his product as he/she likes. But the customer has rights to make the purchase decisions. I think I`ll apply for refund.

Jyrki
Posted By: kwyn Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 05:43 PM
Originally Posted by jyrkik
Originally Posted by miden
I've had an email chat with Guido, and he said that he MIGHT add some channel selection (upper lower pedal) and perhaps editable CC's, but that would be about it for this app.

On the issue of crackling, I've had had none here. (iPad Pro 12" 2nd gen)

Of course a developer/manufacturer has full rights to design his product as he/she likes. But the customer has rights to make the purchase decisions. I think I`ll apply for refund.

Jyrki

Right? After all the description on the App Store says full midi cc mapping and responds to channels 1,2,3
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by miden
I've had an email chat with Guido, and he said that he MIGHT add some channel selection (upper lower pedal) and perhaps editable CC's, but that would be about it for this app.

On the issue of crackling, I've had had none here. (iPad Pro 12" 2nd gen)

It’s good to hear you have no clicks. Your iPad has the A10x Fusion chip whereas the fastest iPad/ iPhone I have is the A10. It’s actually more of a pop almost like a very loud key click. Always coincides with a new note/notes being played. Only happens once then you play another bunch of notes and you get a click. it’s not that noticeable.

What is hard to understand is that I get exactly the same with my ancient 2014 iPad Mini. So I’m not convinced it’s a CPU issue. The original VB3 1.4 code must be at least 6-7 years old now. Also I can run a stripped down B-3X on my Mini with a buffer of 256. So maybe as someone said at the start it’s a buffer issue. Maybe it’s optimised for newer iPads.

I hope Guido tweaks it a bit more. OTOH he might just take his bat home given the stick VB3m has received!
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 07:00 PM
I wrote this a few days ago.....

Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
I'm surprised it's been released as is............Knowing that fixed CC's won't cut it and perhaps would limit sales because if your controller is incapable of adjusting its own drawbars and other controllers to match his Fixed CC controllers then that impacts commercialization. I'm a little dumbfounded by the strategy here of the release vs. the limitations and the bitching that will ensue regarding those limitations.
.

And now I see this:

Originally Posted by kwyn
If editable CCs are a maybe, then maybe I’ll repurchase. For now that’s a deal breaker for me. Too bad because I really like the sound

And this....

Originally Posted by jyrkik
Of course a developer/manufacturer has full rights to design his product as he/she likes. But the customer has rights to make the purchase decisions. I think I`ll apply for refund.

And this....

Originally Posted by kwyn
Right? After all the description on the App Store says full midi cc mapping and responds to channels 1,2,3

Didn't take a rocket scientist to predict that this was coming. For me the app will work as I have two controllers that can adjust their controls to map to any CC, but knowing all the products that don't have this capability and the market share that could be obtained by adding these additional controls leaves me SMH. facepalm hitt
Posted By: miden Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 08:27 PM
Jyrki[/quote]

Right? After all the description on the App Store says full midi cc mapping and responds to channels 1,2,3[/quote]

I was asking as I wanted to remap the upper from 1 to 3 and similar changes to the others. Yes it uses 123 but it is fixed.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 08:56 PM
Guido, disregard the whining. Just get the app on play store and have it work on my note10 with usable latency and I'd pay twice the $15 even with the fixed midi channels.

You kcrs are blowing it for me.
Posted By: miden Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/03/21 10:07 PM
haha, don't worry it DOES sound good and one thing I like very much, is the way he has set the brake to the centre of the mod wheel, fast to Mod wheel full and slow to mod wheel off... VERY useable!
Posted By: jyrkik Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/04/21 05:40 AM
Hi,

I also realize now that my previous comment really sounded like whining. That wasn`t exactly my purpose. Was just talking out the normal reaction of a customer when the early exitement turns into partial disappointed.

Nevertheless, I very much think that Guido has been and is doing wonderfull work. It`s just impossible to please everyone, I quess.

Jyrki
Posted By: John Lee Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/04/21 08:16 AM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
Guido, disregard the whining. Just get the app on play store and have it work on my note10 with usable latency and I'd pay twice the $15 even with the fixed midi channels.

You kcrs are blowing it for me.

I don’t see it as whining. Actually Guido is getting free market research from some early adopters here Obviously it’s up to him how he acts on that. But if he’s curious why there have been a few refund requests for his app then at least he’s got some information on why that is from this forum.
Posted By: Markay Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/04/21 12:02 PM
Originally Posted by miden
haha, don't worry it DOES sound good and one thing I like very much, is the way he has set the brake to the centre of the mod wheel, fast to Mod wheel full and slow to mod wheel off... VERY useable!
Amazing, an undiscovered feature that has been the default on the ancient Win 10, and prehistoric, Win 7 and the irrelevent MacOS versions finally finds acceptance now its available as an APP. Can't wait for your next reveal.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/04/21 01:32 PM
Not sure I get the gist of the last post. I have been running VB3 1.4 on my Mac since 2013. As for the Mod Wheel centre pos being used for Stop - that's nothing new either.

Flumoxed.
Posted By: miden Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/04/21 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by Markay
Originally Posted by miden
haha, don't worry it DOES sound good and one thing I like very much, is the way he has set the brake to the centre of the mod wheel, fast to Mod wheel full and slow to mod wheel off... VERY useable!
Amazing, an undiscovered feature that has been the default on the ancient Win 10, and prehistoric, Win 7 and the irrelevent MacOS versions finally finds acceptance now its available as an APP. Can't wait for your next reveal.

Nothing to do with acceptance m8...just saying I like it being set that way. No need for smart-arse comments. Interesting.

I do not use VB i use another program that does not do that. So yours and chazkeys comments are really quite ignorant of the fact the someone might NOT be using an app/program you are.

Non-flummoxed

PS: (note it actually has two M's)
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/05/21 01:00 AM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
I wrote this a few days ago.....

Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
I'm surprised it's been released as is............Knowing that fixed CC's won't cut it and perhaps would limit sales because if your controller is incapable of adjusting its own drawbars and other controllers to match his Fixed CC controllers then that impacts commercialization. I'm a little dumbfounded by the strategy here of the release vs. the limitations and the bitching that will ensue regarding those limitations.
.

And now I see this:

Originally Posted by kwyn
If editable CCs are a maybe, then maybe I’ll repurchase. For now that’s a deal breaker for me. Too bad because I really like the sound

And this....

Originally Posted by jyrkik
Of course a developer/manufacturer has full rights to design his product as he/she likes. But the customer has rights to make the purchase decisions. I think I`ll apply for refund.

And this....

Originally Posted by kwyn
Right? After all the description on the App Store says full midi cc mapping and responds to channels 1,2,3
Yes, we see 2 folks are asking for refunds, and there may well be others. But your second quote from kwyn I think gets to the heart of the matter, which I also alluded to earlier, about expectations:
Quote
it would be better if the App store product description made that clear, which could be done in a "positive" way
I hadn't read the actual app store description at the time. "Full MIDI CC Mapping" is ambiguous. I would re-phrase the feature to something like: "Full MIDI CC Mapping allows you to use any controller or keyboard that has MIDI-definable controls to operate VB3m parameters from your MIDI keyboard." It will work as is with lots of boards (e.g. Kronos, Fantom, numerous Kurzweils, and any soundless controller with enough controls, or I suppose any board supplemented with something like a Korg NanoKontrol or Guido's own drawbar controllers), but a prospective buyer should be able to discern that you would not be able to use the controls that are on most dedicated clonewheels. (Of course, actually adding the feature to change the MIDI CCs would be even better than improving the description to let people know they can't!)

BTW, B-3X at 10x the price has a very similar limitation, there is poor support for MIDI drawbar control if you're trying to set it up with two manuals. Basically, if you are using numerous two manual clones (Nords and Viscounts at least), or if you are "assembling" a two manual organ out of two typical clonewheel-type boards that each have their own drawbars, B-3X will not support drawbars for the lower manual, because while your board is sending out the lower manual notes and lower manual drawbars on the same MIDI channel, B-3X requires that they be on different MIDI channels. Specifically, B-3X requires all drawbars (i.e. for both the upper and lower manuals) to be sending on the same MIDI channel (while their keys are, of course, set to different MIDI channels), while in many (most?) dual manual keyboard setups, the lower manual drawbars will send on the same MIDI channel as the lower manual keys, NOT on the same MIDI channel as the upper manual drawbars. (Whether people have asked for refund because of lack of two manual drawbar support on many/most two manual setups, I don't know!)
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/05/21 01:19 AM
The Gemini works the same way; lower drawbars have to be sent on the upper channel while the keybed has to be sent on the lower channel. Hammond is even worse, all controllers have to be sent on channel 1 regardless of which midi channel you set as upper channel. So if upper channel is 3 and lower channel is 4, the upper keybed has to be sent on 3, the lower keybed has to be sent on 4 and upper and lower drawbars have to be sent on channel 1.

The issue with VB3m is the appearance of the rushed delivery. The customer expectation appears to be that it is VB3 and related VB3 functionality on the phone but the functionality piece is not completely there and you find out after the purchase.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/05/21 02:53 AM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
The Gemini works the same way; lower drawbars have to be sent on the upper channel while the keybed has to be sent on the lower channel.
Ha! That's something I never looked into, good to know. Makes the Gemini a bit less appealing as an enhancement to something like a Nord C1/C2 organ.

Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Hammond is even worse, all controllers have to be sent on channel 1 regardless of which midi channel you set as upper channel.
More weirdness! It was also recently pointed out to me that percussion and CV aren't standard CCs, either. Makes it trickier to use with any software other than their own co-branded B-3X, which has special presets just for using Hammonds as controllers.
Posted By: Markay Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/05/21 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by miden
Originally Posted by Markay
Originally Posted by miden
haha, don't worry it DOES sound good and one thing I like very much, is the way he has set the brake to the centre of the mod wheel, fast to Mod wheel full and slow to mod wheel off... VERY useable!
Amazing, an undiscovered feature that has been the default on the ancient Win 10, and prehistoric, Win 7 and the irrelevent MacOS versions finally finds acceptance now its available as an APP. Can't wait for your next reveal.

Nothing to do with acceptance m8...just saying I like it being set that way. No need for smart-arse comments. Interesting.

I do not use VB i use another program that does not do that. So yours and chazkeys comments are really quite ignorant of the fact the someone might NOT be using an app/program you are.

Non-flummoxed

PS: (note it actually has two M's)


Well thats way VB1.4 worked for me out of the box in 2012. But more than happy to be called called a "smart arse" by a newby VB3 user who is a member of the advisory board here. Go for it, you should not have to put up with anyone dissing you 'round here. Maybe you should suggest an "unlike" option so smart arses can be put in their place.
Posted By: dickiefunk Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/05/21 09:19 PM
I’m having crackling issues with VB3m on my iPad Mini 4 and iPhone 7. However, I’m also getting the same crackling when I trigger the Ravenscroft 275 piano that I recently bought!?
I’m using the built in audio interface on my Yamaha YC61.
Posted By: To B3 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/05/21 10:14 PM
Outside the lack of MIDI Learn features, I´m loving It so far. Just out of curiosity, about the 2 Rotary speakers available, what kind of leslies or modifications are they suppose to model? The one with light color wood I guess it´s a classic 122, am I correct? The darker wood one has more gain and bottom end, but less pronounced movement. What about that one?
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/05/21 11:02 PM
With the Burn he offered a 122 and 147, so that would be my initial guess.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/05/21 11:30 PM
To anyone who already has it, does VB3m permit you to store user presets that can be recalled over MIDI?

(I can't find any manual... I think the only docs are the Help screens in the app, which doesn't Help if you're trying to learn about it before buying...)
Posted By: drawback Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/05/21 11:57 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
To anyone who already has it, does VB3m permit you to store user presets that can be recalled over MIDI?

(I can't find any manual... I think the only docs are the Help screens in the app, which doesn't Help if you're trying to learn about it before buying...)

No user presets are possible.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 08:55 AM
Android version is on play store.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 12:48 PM
Ok so the good news is with a first glance test, the app seems to work in android on a sam note 10+ with no clicking or glitching. I think I sense a tad bit of latency but it's hard to really tell because the nektar impact has a different trigger point than I'm used to and part of what I sense could be that. But anyways I think it's not unusable. My nektar was as already mapped to vb3 v1 so all the drawbars and rocker switches worked instantly. Except the CV rotary knob, that had to be selected via touchscreen for now. Mod wheel controlled the expression. Pushbutton 1 switched the leslie. But that's just how it was mapped from before. PitchW doesn't do anything.

The bad...when the app is open but in the background, the phone gets sluggish and almost locks up. So it's an organ module or a smartphone but not both at once. So I doubt I could have another keyboard app like a string machine or mellotron app running at the same time as vb3m. My korg nanokontrol bus powered up but didnt talk to the vb3m app. I was hopeful but not surprised. In windows drivers are required so it's not class compliant. My usb sebring sound card stick output the sound which is cool because sam didnt put a headphone jack on my phone.

I haven't set the whole thing up with impact, sound stick and everything on a usb hub through a pa yet because I got stuff to do for a first after 2 years band rehearsal but the pieces all seem to work.
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 12:58 PM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
Ok so the good news is with a first glance test, the app seems to work in android on a sam note 10+ with no clicking or glitching. I think I sense a tad bit of latency but it's hard to really tell because the nektar impact has a different trigger point than I'm used to and part of what I sense could be that. But anyways I think it's not unusable. My nektar was as already mapped to vb3 v1 so all the drawbars and rocker switches worked instantly. Except the CV rotary knob, that had to be selected via touchscreen for now. Mod wheel controlled the expression. Pushbutton 1 switched the leslie. But that's just how it was mapped from before. PitchW doesn't do anything.

The bad...when the app is open but in the background, the phone gets sluggish and almost locks up. So it's an organ module or a smartphone but not both at once. So I doubt I could have another keyboard app like a string machine or mellotron app running at the same time as vb3m. My korg nanokontrol bus powered up but didnt talk to the vb3m app. I was hopeful but not surprised. In windows drivers are required so it's not class compliant. My usb sebring sound card stick output the sound which is cool because sam didnt put a headphone jack on my phone.

I haven't set the whole thing up with impact, sound stick and everything on a usb hub through a pa yet because I got stuff to do for a first after 2 years band rehearsal but the pieces all seem to work.
I plan on purchasing an android phone on the open market ($40) and strip it down so that it justs runs VB3m. If nothing else is running on the phone it should run fine.
Posted By: kenheeter Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 12:58 PM
I don't see it on Play Store, how did you find it? Thanks, Ken
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 01:19 PM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
The bad...when the app is open but in the background, the phone gets sluggish and almost locks up. So it's an organ module or a smartphone but not both at once. So I doubt I could have another keyboard app like a string machine or mellotron app running at the same time as vb3m.
It's Android... and even though Samsung has traditionally led the Android pack in MIDI, getting even just ONE program to behave about as well as it would on iOS is impressive enough! I would count myself lucky and wouldn't have either attempted to run a second MIDI app. (I'm not sure there would even be a good string machine/mellotron app to run with it anyway?)

Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
My korg nanokontrol bus powered up but didnt talk to the vb3m app. I was hopeful but not surprised. In windows drivers are required so it's not class compliant.
Hmmm. My impression was that the NanoKontrol is class compliant as a controller, and so the driver was probably only needed to be able to program it. I would have expected it to work. I wonder if there's some other reason it didn't work.
Posted By: woodshedjones Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 02:47 PM
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.genuinesoundware.vb3m

It didn't seem to show up by searching for it, vb3m or vb3 organ. But there's a link from the gsi website.
Posted By: woodshedjones Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 02:52 PM
I have tried it on a OnePlus 3t and 8t.

The latency on both is noticeable but I could live with it because the sound is good. However my controller is a Yamaha Reface YC and the midi CC messages can't be edited. As commented elsewhere here, the app has no configuration settings for midi learning or manual mapping so for me it isn't playable in this condition.

Maybe it should have been released as a time limited demo before paying, so we could try it on our many different setups.

Hopefully there'll be some updates.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by woodshedjones
However my controller is a Yamaha Reface YC and the midi CC messages can't be edited. As commented elsewhere here, the app has no configuration settings for midi learning or manual mapping so for me it isn't playable in this condition.
If you're sufficiently motivated, a MIDI Solutions Event Processor should let you convert the Reface YC's CCs to the ones VB3m wants. But it's $150. As mentioned earlier, on iOS, you could do it with an app, but I doubt that's an option on Android.

Getting back to the question of its usability on iOS if you intend to drive it from a clonewheel (i.e. a controller that typically does not have definable sliders), even if you add the cost of an app like Keystage (iPad only) or Midiflow (any iOS device), VB3m is still a pretty cheap high quality organ solution (and a lot less than B-3X, and runs on an iPhone). It's a one-time extra setup complication. Maybe the easiest solution would be for someone (even Guido perhaps) to provide a step-by-step of how to do it. I think the only question is whether this may unacceptably increase latency. I'm eager to hear the results of people who try it.

There's already detailed info available on setting up Keystage to use the VR-09 (sysex drawbars) to send CCs to B-3X. Using that info as a guide, you should be able to do the same to send the CCs VB3m needs from a VR09, and maybe even easier than that to use most other clones which already send some CC, negating the whole sysex complication.

And there are some boards with clonewheel engines that do allow you to define ther sliders to send whatever CCs you want... someone somewhere mentioned that the Korg CX3 did this (and of course, Kronos does)... also Numa Compact 2X, Kurzweil Artis 7... so this should be a pretty painless way to upgrade the organ engines in those boards.

I'm actually thinking that the lack of user presets could be at least as big of an issue as the lack of MIDI remapping. It would be nice if we could at least redefine the 16 factory presets to be whatever drawbar settings we wanted, and hopefully have them selectable via MIDI Program Change. As for workarounds, I think you could again use Keystage to create recallable songs that would essentially include "macros" of CC commands... e.g. you could create a Keystage preset/button that would, in turn, send out the 9 MIDI CC values for the 9 desired drawbar settings. Again, I'd be really curious to hear how/whether this works, from anyone up for trying it.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Getting back to the question of its usability on iOS if you intend to drive it from a clonewheel (i.e. a controller that typically does not have definable sliders), even if you add the cost of an app like Keystage (iPad only) or Midiflow (any iOS device), VB3m is still a pretty cheap high quality organ solution (and a lot less than B-3X, and runs on an iPhone). It's a one-time extra setup complication. Maybe the easiest solution would be for someone (even Guido perhaps) to provide a step-by-step of how to do it. I think the only question is whether this may unacceptably increase latency. I'm eager to hear the results of people who try it.

Because you cannot select specific MIDI inputs which means VB3m is listening on all ports, you have to run it as an AUv3 if you want to send mapped MIDI. So for example, I am running it inside Sequencism using StreamByter to pick up Nord CCs and remap them to VB3m. That’s quite complicated but works fine and I have never found MIDI processing to add much latency either. Both Sequencism and StreamByter are free but a steep learning curve unless you are MIDI savvy.

Kudos for Guido making it AUv3 compatible but I am still hoping for mappable CCs as that should be relatively easy. Of course he may want you to buy his D9x controller instead wink
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
Because you cannot select specific MIDI inputs which means VB3m is listening on all ports, you have to run it as an AUv3 if you want to send mapped MIDI.
Hmmm... Why does listening on all ports interfere with sending mapped MIDI? If you're worried that it would be hearing "wrong" MIDI CCs in addition to the right (remapped) ones, odds are, those wrong CCs wouldn't do anything anyway, right? Unless they are coincidentally aligned with some other function. But even if that is indeed a problem, more than that, I think it should be a non-issue becaise while VB3m may listen on all ports, it only listens on channels 1, 2, and 3, which still gives you a way to differentiate what it hears from where. No?
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
Because you cannot select specific MIDI inputs which means VB3m is listening on all ports, you have to run it as an AUv3 if you want to send mapped MIDI.
Hmmm... Why does listening on all ports interfere with sending mapped MIDI? If you're worried that it would be hearing "wrong" MIDI CCs in addition to the right (remapped) ones, odds are, those wrong CCs wouldn't do anything anyway, right? Unless they are coincidentally aligned with some other function. But even if that is indeed a problem, more than that, I think it should be a non-issue becaise while VB3m may listen on all ports, it only listens on channels 1, 2, and 3, which still gives you a way to differentiate what it hears from where. No?
You end up with 2 MIDI streams, one going direct to the app and the other coming from your CC processing app. So when load VB3 any MIDI coming in from your controller keyb goes direct to the app. If you then load Midiflow although you can filter the notes any CCs you modify will be mixed with the ones going direct. Without the ability to select / deselect ports you can’t get around it this way. As you said earlier Event Processor could do it but you still have a problem unless you have something like the Kirg interface with 5 pin MIDI.

Ah but you have a point - different MIDI channels could do it.

[edit] right I’m on it. Nord sends on CH4 VB3 ignores it and Midiflow rechannelises the lot. Should work. I’ll get back to you!
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
If you then load Midiflow although you can filter the notes any CCs you modify will be mixed with the ones going direct.
Right, that's what I meant about worrying about the "wrong" (original) MIDI CCs getting through to VB3m along with the "corrected" ones... it's only a problem if the "wrong" ones actually happen to do something else. Which could happen, but it's also very likely that the "wrong" CC isn't mapped to anything at all in VB3m and so wouldn't do anything anyway, therefore no harm. But yes, addressing it via different MIDI channels is likely the best approach, as it should avoid even the possibility of a conflict.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 06:39 PM
Wow I have had a Double Bongcloud today!
Can’t believe I spent the afternoon programming StreamByter when all I needed to was set my Electro to channel 4 or higher and route through Midiflow.
5 minute job. Thanks AnotherScott!

[EDIT] Turns out VB3m accepts CCs on all channels. So MidiFlow or any other stand alone processor/translator app won't work.
The MIDI has to go like this [ Keyboard Controller-> iPad [Midi Processor->VB3m] ]

For VB3m to work for me I need the app to present me with a list of MIDI ports including virtual ones. Control channel should be the same as the manuals or just the upper manual channel eg 1 or even selectable. But maybe this isn't going to happen if it gets tied to the new GM-Labs hardware.
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 07:28 PM
Wow, didn't see this coming. Where is the 73 key version with the Gemini built-in (aka the Electro killer). He's getting closer......

https://www.facebook.com/instruments.crumar/photos/a.179482355578928/1556814741179009/
Posted By: drawback Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Wow, didn't see this coming. Where is the 73 key version with the Gemini built-in (aka the Electro killer). He's getting closer......

https://www.facebook.com/instruments.crumar/photos/a.179482355578928/1556814741179009/

Now we’re talkin’!! 2thu
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 09:38 PM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Wow, didn't see this coming. Where is the 73 key version with the Gemini built-in (aka the Electro killer). He's getting closer......

https://www.facebook.com/instruments.crumar/photos/a.179482355578928/1556814741179009/

Yes 73 key version with a couple of extra pedal jacks please - programmable reverse keys for the lower octave would be nice. Wouldn't need the Gemini if Guido ports more of his virtual instruments to the mobile platform. VB3m, Tine, Reed and Clav shouldn't need too much CPU?
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 11:24 PM
Ok. One annoying android thing. At least on Samsung phones you cant disable screen timeout without an additional app. I'm jamming along and after 5 mins the screen has timed out and the sound has stopped. I installed "no screen off" and so far it seems ok with no conflicts but it is a concern at a gig.
Posted By: davinwv Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/06/21 11:50 PM
Originally Posted by drawback
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Wow, didn't see this coming. Where is the 73 key version with the Gemini built-in (aka the Electro killer). He's getting closer......

https://www.facebook.com/instruments.crumar/photos/a.179482355578928/1556814741179009/

Now we’re talkin’!! 2thu

As I just said in the Facebook comments:

As long as that stand is removable, the action feels like the Mojo 61, and it can also work bus powered with my PC laptop, this is an insta-buy for me. I keep a Numa Organ 2 around just to use as a software organ controller right now. This unit would send it packing!

I've been suggesting a version of the D9X with a waterfall keyboard since the D9X was released.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/07/21 02:53 PM
A mini control surface with 9 sliders and a joystick. Ok, who's going to go out on a limb and see if this thing is compatible?

sam ash
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/07/21 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
A mini control surface with 9 sliders and a joystick. Ok, who's going to go out on a limb and see if this thing is compatible?
Anything with programmable sliders should work... allowing for the complexity of connecting multiple USB devices to an iOS device, meaning you're probably looking at some kind of powered USB hub as well. Here's another similar controller, a no-name knock-off: ammoon EasyControl.9 World Portable Mini USB Slim-Line Control Midi Controller
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/07/21 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
The bad...when the app is open but in the background, the phone gets sluggish and almost locks up. So it's an organ module or a smartphone but not both at once. So I doubt I could have another keyboard app like a string machine or mellotron app running at the same time as vb3m.
It's Android... and even though Samsung has traditionally led the Android pack in MIDI, getting even just ONE program to behave about as well as it would on iOS is impressive enough! I would count myself lucky and wouldn't have either attempted to run a second MIDI app. (I'm not sure there would even be a good string machine/mellotron app to run with it anyway?)

Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
My korg nanokontrol bus powered up but didnt talk to the vb3m app. I was hopeful but not surprised. In windows drivers are required so it's not class compliant.
Hmmm. My impression was that the NanoKontrol is class compliant as a controller, and so the driver was probably only needed to be able to program it. I would have expected it to work. I wonder if there's some other reason it didn't work.

So with further exploration I have found that the korg nanokontrol does work quite nicely with vb3m but needs a powered hub. I used an insignia 7 port I had laying about. Since I had the korg already programmed for vb3 everything like drawbars, vol, exp, distortion, percussion ect was working with no extra programming.

Funny though, my nektar impact with 9 faders onboard worked on the phones bus power without the hub. So the possibility is that with a small bag of peripherals you could hook up the house owned yamaha PSR to your vb3m equipped phone and have a better than average sounding clonewheel with usable fader drawbars and leslie switch. Providing the PSR sends midi on ch 1 or omni. No more crap organ sounds at the blues jam.
Posted By: woodshedjones Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/07/21 08:17 PM
Re: android vb3m. In the GUI, it would nice to have the Leslie half moon switch accessible from the same screen as the drawbars. I find that the tabs to get to different screens are positioned off the screen on my phone in a kind of glitch so you can only see a slither of what the tab is labelled. So to play with drawbars, then switch to another screen to change Leslie speed is a bit of a nightmare.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/07/21 08:20 PM
Ah, yes, I always assume you'll need a powered hub if you're connecting more than one device (and sometimes even with just one device). Otherwise, even if something appears to work at first, it may get flakey as the power level of the iPad drops.
Posted By: SHonka Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/08/21 02:01 AM
VB3m runs great on without hickups on my iPadMini2, iPhone7 and 2017 iPadPro10.5.
AUM and streambyter or Mozaic is the answer to all that is still missing in VB3m.
Running VB3m AUv3 in AUM You can set the buffer settings, store presets, filter channels
etc. You can write all Your mappings in Mozaic and be done.

VB3m is a lot lighter on resources than B-3X. I have VB3m and Korg Module
with all in-apps steadily running in AUM for really exellent sound expander for
My Yamaha MoXF8. Old iPadMini2 16Gb velcroed on MoXF, lightning-to-USB3 adapter,
USB B to USB A from MoXF to host-port for MIDI and audio
USB A to Lightning for extra power from MoXF USB A port.
No real drawbars, but I can use the on-screen ones.
Posted By: drawback Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/08/21 02:57 AM
Originally Posted by SHonka
VB3m runs great on without hickups on my iPadMini2, iPhone7 and 2017 iPadPro10.5.
AUM and streambyter or Mozaic is the answer to all that is still missing in VB3m.
Running VB3m AUv3 in AUM You can set the buffer settings, store presets, filter channels
etc. You can write all Your mappings in Mozaic and be done.

Why not map directly in AUM?
Posted By: dickiefunk Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/08/21 06:33 AM
Originally Posted by SHonka
VB3m runs great on without hickups on my iPadMini2, iPhone7 and 2017 iPadPro10.5.
AUM and streambyter or Mozaic is the answer to all that is still missing in VB3m.
Running VB3m AUv3 in AUM You can set the buffer settings, store presets, filter channels
etc. You can write all Your mappings in Mozaic and be done.

VB3m is a lot lighter on resources than B-3X. I have VB3m and Korg Module
with all in-apps steadily running in AUM for really exellent sound expander for
My Yamaha MoXF8. Old iPadMini2 16Gb velcroed on MoXF, lightning-to-USB3 adapter,
USB B to USB A from MoXF to host-port for MIDI and audio
USB A to Lightning for extra power from MoXF USB A port.
No real drawbars, but I can use the on-screen ones.

That’s good to hear. I wonder why I can’t get it to work with my YC61 using an iPad Mini 4 and iPhone 7 with the Apple USB3 Camera Kit adapter?
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/08/21 12:17 PM
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
[EDIT] Turns out VB3m accepts CCs on all channels. So MidiFlow or any other stand alone processor/translator app won't work.
The MIDI has to go like this [ Keyboard Controller-> iPad [Midi Processor->VB3m] ]
Just saw this edit. So this is solved by using it as an AUv3? So then you should be able to "host" it in Keystage as well as have Keystage translate the CCs?

Originally Posted by woodshedjones
to play with drawbars, then switch to another screen to change Leslie speed is a bit of a nightmare.
Does it recognize a footswitch (i.e. sustain pedal) to toggle rotary speed?

Originally Posted by dickiefunk
I wonder why I can’t get it to work with my YC61 using an iPad Mini 4 and iPhone 7 with the Apple USB3 Camera Kit adapter?
Have you tried what I suggested in the other thread, i.e. "see what happens if you don't use the YC61 interface. Any chance you have another way to connect, like a 5-pin DIN MIDI connection into your iPad?"
Posted By: dickiefunk Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/08/21 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by dickiefunk
I wonder why I can’t get it to work with my YC61 using an iPad Mini 4 and iPhone 7 with the Apple USB3 Camera Kit adapter?
Have you tried what I suggested in the other thread, i.e. "see what happens if you don't use the YC61 interface. Any chance you have another way to connect, like a 5-pin DIN MIDI connection into your iPad?"[/quote]

I have an old Behringer UMC404HD interface which I guess I could try though I’d need to get hold of some midi leads.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/08/21 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by woodshedjones
to play with drawbars, then switch to another screen to change Leslie speed is a bit of a nightmare.
Does it recognize a footswitch (i.e. sustain pedal) to toggle rotary speed?
-----------------------------------------------------
If you have some kind of midi footswitch with a usb end to plug into a hub then yes. Or a sustain pedal plugged into your controller , then that depends on if your controller can use that to send a midi message.

I want to add that I've been playing on vb3m for an hour or 2 this morning and the latency isn't good. The app isn't unusable but if it were even 1 ms longer it would be almost unusable.

I've been demoing an android dx7 app called synth fm and its latency is noticeably shorter so I know its possible to improve vb3m.
Posted By: kwyn Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/08/21 07:59 PM
They just wrote on their FB page that an update with custom midi mapping is coming. Great news!
Posted By: woodshedjones Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/08/21 08:12 PM
Yeah I love that dx7 app! I bought the unlocked version. The latency is really good with it.
From a customer point of view I am thinking if Rockrelay Synth FM can manage great latency then why not GSI?

I of course know nothing of the technical challenges.

Some other android apps I use that play with "zero" or low latency are DRC polyphonic synthesiser and also Soundfont Midi Player. That has a low latency button on the demo version. Hit that and all is fine (time limited feature)

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.greh.soundfontmidiplayer
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/08/21 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by kwyn
They just wrote on their FB page that an update with custom midi mapping is coming. Great news!
Yup! Here's what he said about it: "Just found the most touch-friendly way to implement the custom Midi Map for VB3m... So expect an update soon. 👍🏻" -- with this picture posted, showing not just drawbars, but mapping for other parameters too...

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

ETA: Also the pic implies we may be able to specify the MIDI channels for each function individually. That would address something discussed earlier (including as a shortcoming of B-3X), if we can assign Upper Drawbars to one channel and Lower Drawbars to another, which is how some double-manual clones are set up.
Posted By: dickiefunk Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/08/21 10:11 PM
This update looks great. I notice it also has another new tab called “Device Options”?
Posted By: Piktor Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/09/21 05:52 AM
Originally Posted by drawback
Originally Posted by SHonka
VB3m runs great on without hickups on my iPadMini2, iPhone7 and 2017 iPadPro10.5.
AUM and streambyter or Mozaic is the answer to all that is still missing in VB3m.
Running VB3m AUv3 in AUM You can set the buffer settings, store presets, filter channels
etc. You can write all Your mappings in Mozaic and be done.

Why not map directly in AUM?
Yes, this works. Through AUM, I got VB3m mapped to most everything that I needed from an old midi keyboard combined with a Voce Midi Drawbar unit. Having said that, I’m still looking forward to being able to do that directly from with VB3m itself when the update comes.
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/09/21 01:05 PM
In reading some posts it appears that VB3m carries two different internal leslie options where the Mojo and Gemini only carry one. Can anyone comment on the differences in the two leslies? Is one better than the other, specifically if the 2nd option (which is not on the Gemini) sounds better than the leslie offered in the Gemini?
Posted By: Kurt W Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/09/21 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
And there are some boards with clonewheel engines that do allow you to define ther sliders to send whatever CCs you want... someone somewhere mentioned that the Korg CX3 did this (and of course, Kronos does)... also Numa Compact 2X, Kurzweil Artis 7... so this should be a pretty painless way to upgrade the organ engines in those boards.

I can confirm that the digital Korg CX3 can define CC’s for all drawbars and most other of the control buttons. However to my knowledge the Kronos use sys ex and the sys ex strings depends on which part of a combination which control the organ. OB Dave know a lot about this, I interacted with him by monitoring the strings sent by my Kronos when he implemented support for the Kronos on his excellent Ocean Beach DB-1 drawbar controller. It might be different in program mode, but then you miss a lot of functionality.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/09/21 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
In reading some posts it appears that VB3m carries two different internal leslie options where the Mojo and Gemini only carry one. Can anyone comment on the differences in the two leslies? Is one better than the other, specifically if the 2nd option (which is not on the Gemini) sounds better than the leslie offered in the Gemini?
The second leslie is farther miced and more mid congested. Parameters on both models are not adjustable. The first is better for my uses.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/09/21 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by Kurt W
I can confirm that the digital Korg CX3 can define CC’s for all drawbars and most other of the control buttons. However to my knowledge the Kronos use sys ex and the sys ex strings depends on which part of a combination which control the organ. OB Dave know a lot about this, I interacted with him by monitoring the strings sent by my Kronos when he implemented support for the Kronos on his excellent Ocean Beach DB-1 drawbar controller.
All correct... but while the CX3 controls on the Kronos are sysex, the Kronos still lets you define the sliders to send out MIDI CCs. The sysex limitation comes into play when you you want to have an external device control the CX3 engine in the Kronos, but in this case, we're kind of doing the reverse, having the Kronos' sliders control some external device.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/09/21 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
The second leslie is farther miced and more mid congested. Parameters on both models are not adjustable.
The one leslie in the Gemini is pretty adjustable... including mic angle and distance, and horn EQ
Posted By: Kurt W Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/09/21 05:22 PM
That’s fine, as you say my experience was based upon controlling the Kronos from an external controller. My bad.
Posted By: To B3 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/09/21 07:23 PM
I defined the CC´s on my CX3 to control the main parameters, but I found out the parameters were gone when I turned the keyboard off. Is it supposed to work that way? I saved it into the program and it didnt work.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/09/21 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
At the mo the app works in the background. Apps like Korg Module have the option to run in the background or not. I like this feature as I can just switch manually and avoid using another app to route MIDI to them. A typical example for me is Model D and Korg Module. It might seem basic but having used apps like MidiFlow and iMidiPatchbay that extra layer is just another thing to worry about if you are thinking about using them live.
Just double checking that first sentence... without running any other app, VB3m runs in the background (i.e. if the app is running, background audio is always on)? Because SHonka in post #3092024 in the thread at https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbth...ackling-triggering-ios-apps-from-my-yc61 says it's not working that way for him/her.

Originally Posted by ChazKeys
BTW running these apps with IDAM is a breeze compared to my old iConnectMidi2.
What's IDAM?
Posted By: Kurt W Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/09/21 07:53 PM
The CC’s are not edited per program but in the CX3’s Global Mode. The manual describes the procedure to save the edited global parameters on page 21:

https://cdn.korg.com/us/support/download/files/75125fa07835b1450357758751304a2f.pdf?response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3DCX3_OM_E4.pdf&response-content-type=application%2Fpdf%3B
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/09/21 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
At the mo the app works in the background. Apps like Korg Module have the option to run in the background or not. I like this feature as I can just switch manually and avoid using another app to route MIDI to them. A typical example for me is Model D and Korg Module. It might seem basic but having used apps like MidiFlow and iMidiPatchbay that extra layer is just another thing to worry about if you are thinking about using them live.
Just double checking that first sentence... without running any other app, VB3m runs in the background (i.e. if the app is running, background audio is always on)? Because SHonka in post #3092024 in the thread at https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbth...ackling-triggering-ios-apps-from-my-yc61 says it's not working that way for him/her
Yes VB3m is always running and audio is always on. Example: VB3m and Module loaded, then switch to Module you can still play and control VB3m when it's in the background. Or put simply VB3m does not need to be in the foreground to work.
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
BTW running these apps with IDAM is a breeze compared to my old iConnectMidi2.
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
What's IDAM?
With Inter-Device Audio and MIDI you can just connect your iPad and use Logic etc.to play/record audio from your iPad synths.
"Inter-Device Audio and MIDI (IDAM) enables you to record digital audio from an iOS device without using special cables or an audio interface. It also lets you transmit MIDI messages between an iOS device and your Mac, which simplifies the configuration of an iOS sampler or synthesizer app as an external MIDI instrument. You enable these features by connecting an iOS device to your Mac using a standard Lightning cable and enabling IDAM in Audio MIDI Setup."

You can even aggregate them so you could use your iPhone and your iPad if you have both, at the same time.
Posted By: To B3 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/09/21 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by Kurt W
The CC’s are not edited per program but in the CX3’s Global Mode. The manual describes the procedure to save the edited global parameters on page 21:

https://cdn.korg.com/us/support/download/files/75125fa07835b1450357758751304a2f.pdf?response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3DCX3_OM_E4.pdf&response-content-type=application%2Fpdf%3B
Worked so well! Thanks! My CX3 turned into (almost) a Mojo! Would love to see live with a band.
Posted By: mobi Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/10/21 12:52 AM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
The one leslie in the Gemini is pretty adjustable... including mic angle and distance, and horn EQ


Same Leslie as VB3-II
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/10/21 06:55 PM
Crumar have posted more pictures of the VB3m controller - some good comments too.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/instruments.crumar/posts/?ref=page_internal
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/10/21 07:16 PM
If I'm going to spend 1k (just a guess) on a controller for a $13 app I'm hoping GSI has plans to develop the parameters of vb3m extensively and get the latency down to half of what it is now ( like the fm-synth app) and make sure the controller is compatible with b3x.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/10/21 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
If I'm going to spend 1k (just a guess) on a controller for a $13 app...
The fact that it has pitch/mod wheels indicates that it is envisioned as being useful for something other than an organ app.
Posted By: Bif_ Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/10/21 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
If I'm going to spend 1k (just a guess) on a controller for a $13 app


Ummm, how about a nice organ for $1500......the Mojo 61.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/10/21 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by Bif_
Ummm, how about a nice organ for $1500......the Mojo 61.
Exactly. I'm not sure why there is quite so much enthusiasm about this, when you can already get that. Is it just the addition of the wheels and/or that it is powered by USB? Maybe the expectation that it will be cheaper?
Posted By: drawback Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/10/21 11:37 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by Bif_
Ummm, how about a nice organ for $1500......the Mojo 61.
Exactly. I'm not sure why there is quite so much enthusiasm about this, when you can already get that. Is it just the addition of the wheels and/or that it is powered by USB? Maybe the expectation that it will be cheaper?

I think there would be better-placed interest in a single manual controller with two sets of drawbars, organ-centric rockers plus a set of patch-selection switches. The FB prototype doesn't go far enough.
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/11/21 12:18 AM
73/76 keys would make it piano viable, 61 keys is just too restrictive. This could be his opportunity to offer various controller options, i.e. 61 keys, 76 keys, 88 keys, with/without Gemini, one, two, three sets of drawbars, pick your own keybed. Imagine the possibilities, solve everyone's wants/needs. Why not think out of the box?
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/11/21 12:32 AM
What would interest me about this would be if it were 73 keys (C to C) with aftertouch. Even better if it has some basic patch change functions, e.g. 16 Program Select buttons above the keys which could be toggled between functioning to change MIDI channel, or calling up a set of 16 Program Changes, or calling up an alternate set of 16 Program Changes (i.e. Bank A, Bank B), or functioning as numeric entry for specifying what Program Changes those 32 locations should be calling up. Simple, but useful. (As few as 8 buttons would still be useful, and/or if you needed an app to program in the program changes instead of being able to do it right from the board.)
Posted By: drawback Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/11/21 01:51 AM
Yes, basically an organ-centric all purpose controller, instead of the usual piano-centric or beats-centric.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/11/21 01:07 PM
Have Crumar hijacked this idea from GSi/GM Labs? I know they work together but when Guido first posted the idea I'm sure he said it would be a GM Labs product, only available ready built, but still customisable and based on Arduino. This would distinguish it from the professional range like the Mojo and the Gemini. There is no point in GM Labs over thinking this by adding another set of drawbars or putting a Gemini inside it, because GSi already sell the DMC-122. The Mojo covers all the organ bases, the Seven does all the pianos and the Gemini, as the name says, is just about 2 of everything you would ever need.

But I'm hoping this will still be aimed at the DIY market and home studios - people who dabble in a bit of programming, electronics and play a bit too. Based on his other projects and the cost of raw materials - the Fatar TP8O isn't cheap - I hope it will cost around £500. That's just under half the price of the DMC-122 in the UK.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 12:38 AM
Update is on play store.
Posted By: To B3 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
Update is on play store.

Already? What are the updated features? It´s not on Apple Store yet...
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 01:38 AM
Too many to list and I haven't tried it out yet. But pretty much everything that was kvetched about, even by me. Lots of midi mapping. Saving presets. Selectable buffers. And more....
Posted By: To B3 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 01:44 AM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
Too many to list and I haven't tried it out yet. But pretty much everything that was kvetched about, even by me. Lots of midi mapping. Saving presets. Selectable buffers. And more....

Great news! I have installed it in my old ipad 3 and aside some crackling here and there, it rolls smooth. Hope that is solved too, looking forward to try when it´s available on apple.
Posted By: To B3 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 02:17 AM
Not available for my ipad yet, but it´s on google play already (did not appear on my phone, just when I searched it via computer). Here´s what´s new:

- Added 2 parameters: Mic Balance, Mic Distance
- Global tuning between A=430 Hz and A=450 Hz
- Custom Midi Map with Midi Learn
- Option to invert all drawbar CC values
- Selectable Midi channels
- Sustain pedal option for sustaining notes
- Program bank with 32 memory location
- Custom Program Change assignment
- Latency option
- Background audio option

Curious specially to see how these two new features work:

- Program bank with 32 memory location
- Custom Program Change assignment
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 01:36 PM
What is the latency option supposed to do? Wouldn't the goal be to minimize latency? What does the option provide and what are pros/cons of enabling/disabling this option?
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
Have Crumar hijacked this idea from GSi/GM Labs? I know they work together but when Guido first posted the idea I'm sure he said it would be a GM Labs product, only available ready built, but still customisable and based on Arduino. This would distinguish it from the professional range like the Mojo and the Gemini. There is no point in GM Labs over thinking this by adding another set of drawbars or putting a Gemini inside it, because GSi already sell the DMC-122. The Mojo covers all the organ bases, the Seven does all the pianos and the Gemini, as the name says, is just about 2 of everything you would ever need.

But I'm hoping this will still be aimed at the DIY market and home studios - people who dabble in a bit of programming, electronics and play a bit too. Based on his other projects and the cost of raw materials - the Fatar TP8O isn't cheap - I hope it will cost around £500. That's just under half the price of the DMC-122 in the UK.
The one keyboard that is missing from the offerings is a single manual controller with 73 or 76 semi-weighted keys in order to extend the keyboard for acoustic/electric piano, drawbars and an optional Gemini module (I call this keyboard the the Electro killer). Many people have asked for this keyboard option but it's never been delivered. I'll bet that his most recent highest selling item is the Mojo 61. When the Mojo came out it was a dual manual organ; people wanted a single manual keyboard. When Guido was asked if he would ever consider a single manual Mojo, his answer was "Nojo". Look how successful that keyboard turned out to be. As a user and customer the lack of a single manual 73/76 key controller with drawbars and a Gemini module frustrates me. Why doesnt he have a custom shop where different configurations of his items (dual manual, single manual, drawbars, gemini, other items he's created, choosing your own keybed) can be offered?
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 02:31 PM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
What is the latency option supposed to do? Wouldn't the goal be to minimize latency? What does the option provide and what are pros/cons of enabling/disabling this option?
With most apps, if you're getting crackles in your audio, you can increase the buffer to get rid of them, at the cost of additional latency. Previously, the VB3m buffer size was fixed, at what the app determined was best. But if the app "guessed wrong" and you were getting crackles, there was no way to over-ride its settings. It sounds like he's added the ability to choose the setting that works for you, just as most other apps do, instead of locking you into the app's best guess. (In theory, this could also work the other way... you might be able to get by with a LOWER bugger/latency setting than what the app had guessed at, too.)
Posted By: drawback Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Why doesnt he have a custom shop where different configurations of his items (dual manual, single manual, drawbars, gemini, other items he's created, choosing your own keybed) can be offered?

Staggering logistics and costs come to mind... but you can still dream. I like the concept that Viscount 70s brings to the table. Imagine a world where you could design your own board from a variety of pre-fab components, have it come as a kit to assemble your own. GMLab meets GSi meets Crumar.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
The one keyboard that is missing from the offerings is a single manual controller with 73 or 76 semi-weighted keys in order to extend the keyboard for acoustic/electric piano, drawbars and an optional Gemini module (I call this keyboard the the Electro killer). Many people have asked for this keyboard option but it's never been delivered. I'll bet that his most recent highest selling item is the Mojo 61. When the Mojo came out it was a dual manual organ; people wanted a single manual keyboard. When Guido was asked if he would ever consider a single manual Mojo, his answer was "Nojo". Look how successful that keyboard turned out to be. As a user and customer the lack of a single manual 73/76 key controller with drawbars and a Gemini module frustrates me. Why doesnt he have a custom shop where different configurations of his items (dual manual, single manual, drawbars, gemini, other items he's created, choosing your own keybed) can be offered?

Yes that would be the Electro killer and like you I hope that one day Crumar might release it. And it's interesting that the Mojo 61 happened despite Guido's original comments as I think he also said (some years ago mind) he would never release anything on iOS! So we have the Mojo 61 and now VB3m on iOS. In the meantime I still think 61/73 controller running the Gemini instruments on a mobile device might be a step in that direction. However, I don't think bolting a D9x onto a 61 waterfall keyboard, even with pitch and mod wheels, is going to cut it [Edit] as a general controller. Good for VB3m though. But a 73 key single manual DMC-122 would work for me as well - with or without a Gemini.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 04:48 PM
Ok I jammed on the update. My main gripe was latency. On my Sam note 10 plus it is improved. About where b3x is. Not snappy tight but at least not lagging so as to confuse you and put you out of time. This is with setting the buffers to 128 or better yet 64. I ran at 64 for 10 or 15 minutes and had no buffer clicks ect.. the other improvements are nice but not a deal killer for me.
I think run in the background when checked adds back a tad of latency. Maybe the "screen no timeout" app I use adds a little latency or maybe I imagined it. It would be a nice future improvement to have a no sleep checkbox. After 10minutes my phone goes into screen timeout and vb3m goes down with it.
A bummer if you're in the middle of a song.
Posted By: bfields Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 05:25 PM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
I think run in the background when checked adds back a tad of latency. Maybe the "screen no timeout" app I use adds a little latency or maybe I imagined it.

If you want to try to measure the difference, I've done that before by recording the sound output simultaneously with the sounds of my fingers hitting screen or keys: see http://www.fieldses.org/blog/?q=node/373 or http://www.fieldses.org/blog/?q=node/374.
Posted By: John Lee Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 06:02 PM
The update is now on the Apple store. Just rebought it and with the new midi map page I can now change all the CCs to suit my Electro 6.

Hats off to Guido for getting this update sorted so soon. B-3X now has some serious competition and VB3m is much much cheaper.

Cheers

John
Posted By: To B3 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 06:52 PM
Just did the update and my CX3 turned into a Mojo! Incredible. Saved some presets, all accessible from the Korg front panel. Everything is mapped, with the exception of the volume (could not get this to work) and the possibility to alternate both drawbar sets. But I do a workaround saving diferent registrations next to the other and the sound changes when I press the registration button, with a tiny hiccup. Good enough for recording, at least. Great, great job GSI.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 07:07 PM
Now we need an android version of mr ray. With vb3m, synth fm, DRC and a viable EP like mr ray I got a fly rig in my pocket. Ok I need a good android mellotron app too.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 07:24 PM
The Midi Mapping has the added feature of a Min and Max. So I can use my Electro for the Leslie as slow = 43 and fast = 85 if you are using the dedicated rotor switch or half moon. Percussion also syncs perfectly to the electro despite it only having one button to select the four options.

Great update Guido!

Could you be persuaded to release Tine, Reed and Clav models in the future? Like a mobile version of Key Performer or even the models from the Gemini.

https://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=38
Posted By: dickiefunk Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 07:37 PM
Really great update!
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 08:27 PM
can the android version be downloaded and applied to multiple devices or does that require two purchases? I'd like this on my phone and an android pad? Is this feasible?
Posted By: bfields Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/13/21 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
can the android version be downloaded and applied to multiple devices or does that require two purchases? I'd like this on my phone and an android pad? Is this feasible?

Yep, just checked, it works for me.

From what I've seen, Android apps always follow the account, not the device.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/14/21 12:33 PM
Just a note about how VB3m receives program changes. Unlike the Midi Map which totally customisable (though a save MIDI map option would be a bonus for some) the VB3 receives program changes in OMNI mode. So it's not tied to the basic channel and listens on all 16 channels. So if you are thinking of using with your live rig that might be an issue.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/14/21 01:05 PM
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
VB3 receives program changes in OMNI mode. So it's not tied to the basic channel and listens on all 16 channels. So if you are thinking of using with your live rig that might be an issue.
Ooh, yeah, I hope he addresses that. Otherwise the app almost might as well go back to having no program changes at all, since it means you can't use that feature unless it's the only "sound module" app you're running. Still useful (since some people will only be using it by itself anyway), but quite a limitation, if you can't use Program Change on any other app you may be running along with it (Korg Module, a piano/EP app, a synth, whatever). If I'm understanding correctly, for some people, then, this could be worse than before. Before, if you were running it with another app, you could send a program change to that other app, and VB3m would just do nothing; now if you send a program change to that other app, there might be no way to prevent it from changing your VB3m sound as well. But maybe hosting VB3m as an AUv3 could give you a way around this? Anyway, I don't think this is how Guido would want it to work, I'm guessing it's an oversight and will be addressed.

Originally Posted by ChazKeys
a save MIDI map option would be a bonus for some
Oh yes, that's a feature I've posted about wishing B-3X had. If you own more than one clonewheel (and who doesn't? ;-) ), you might need one set of MIDI CCs set up to run it from one, and a different set to run it from another, and it would be a pain to have to redefine all your drawbar/percussion/CV/etc. settings every time you wanted to switch from one controller to another.
Posted By: Doerfler Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/14/21 01:07 PM
Brother KRK just posted this video cool

Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/14/21 02:54 PM
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
Just a note about how VB3m receives program changes. Unlike the Midi Map which totally customisable (though a save MIDI map option would be a bonus for some) the VB3 receives program changes in OMNI mode. So it's not tied to the basic channel and listens on all 16 channels. So if you are thinking of using with your live rig that might be an issue.
Damn......
I was thinking of using the VB3m for organ and coupling it with Gemini and using the two DSP's of the Gemini for two non-organ voices while I was playing organ from VB3m; this does throw a monkey wrench into the equation. It's always something.
Posted By: brenner13 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/14/21 03:13 PM
Got the iOS version updated last night. One switch inverts all of the midi cc's for the drawbars. Works perfectly with my Studiologic Numa Compact 2X, now. Happy dance!
Posted By: woodshedjones Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/14/21 09:43 PM
Not sure what I'm doing wrong here. Want to set up mapping to yamaha reface YC.

Tried midi learn. Double tap on first column parameter name but nothing happens. So then I tried manually entering the cc value for a drawbar. Found the CC numbers in the Yamaha manual online. Still doesn't make the on-screen drawbar work.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/14/21 10:43 PM
Originally Posted by woodshedjones
Not sure what I'm doing wrong here. Want to set up mapping to yamaha reface YC.

Tried midi learn. Double tap on first column parameter name but nothing happens. So then I tried manually entering the cc value for a drawbar. Found the CC numbers in the Yamaha manual online. Still doesn't make the on-screen drawbar work.
Just a guess... are you triggering it using the YC61's MIDI zone function? IIRC, that won't work because the drawbars don't send MIDI in that function. You have to trigger it with the YC's organ section enabled, just as if you were using the YC's native organ sound. (You just have to turn the volume knob down on that section, so you'll hear the external organ sound instead of the internal one.)
Posted By: Bif_ Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/15/21 12:15 AM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by woodshedjones
Not sure what I'm doing wrong here. Want to set up mapping to yamaha reface YC.
.
... are you triggering it using the YC61's MIDI zone function?

Details, details. poke
Posted By: woodshedjones Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/15/21 06:20 AM
Yeah it's the mini Yamaha Reface YC. Hoping to get this working as my mobile campsite setup, all battery powered.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/15/21 08:16 AM
Originally Posted by woodshedjones
Yeah it's the mini Yamaha Reface YC. Hoping to get this working as my mobile campsite setup, all battery powered.
If you were going to run the vb3m audio back into the YC aux input you are likely to get a usb ground loop hum. There are 2 current threads talking about this as I post.
Posted By: Brad Kaenel Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/15/21 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
What is the latency option supposed to do? Wouldn't the goal be to minimize latency? What does the option provide and what are pros/cons of enabling/disabling this option?
With most apps, if you're getting crackles in your audio, you can increase the buffer to get rid of them, at the cost of additional latency. Previously, the VB3m buffer size was fixed, at what the app determined was best. But if the app "guessed wrong" and you were getting crackles, there was no way to over-ride its settings. It sounds like he's added the ability to choose the setting that works for you, just as most other apps do, instead of locking you into the app's best guess. (In theory, this could also work the other way... you might be able to get by with a LOWER bugger/latency setting than what the app had guessed at, too.)

Downloaded latest v1.1 for iOS onto my 16GB iPad Mini Gen 4. Runs great, although I was still getting some of crackles that others have reported. Changing the buffer settings didn't seem to make it better or worse (they're just tiny little pops; almost unnoticeable if you've got the percussion click cranked way up, but they're there.)

Had some fun setting up a two-manual "organ" with my Legend 70s on the bottom, and a Roland A-49 on top: Both boards plugged into a USB hub, then the hub into an Apple Camera Connector, then the ACC (Lightning connector) into the iPad Mini. Set the Legend MIDI channel to 2. Voile!

I think the Legend will allow me to assign a different MIDI channel to each side of a split -- will have to try that tonite with VB3m to see if I can achieve a two-manual config using just the Legend.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/15/21 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Brad Kaenel [quote
I think the Legend will allow me to assign a different MIDI channel to each side of a split -- will have to try that tonite with VB3m to see if I can achieve a two-manual config using just the Legend.

I’m sure the Legend does the separate channels either side of the split. But you can split the VB3m on the Settings page so you don’t need to worry about midi channels. There is a slider to shift the split point over a 2 octave range.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/15/21 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
Just a note about how VB3m receives program changes. Unlike the Midi Map which totally customisable (though a save MIDI map option would be a bonus for some) the VB3 receives program changes in OMNI mode. So it's not tied to the basic channel and listens on all 16 channels. So if you are thinking of using with your live rig that might be an issue.
Damn......
I was thinking of using the VB3m for organ and coupling it with Gemini and using the two DSP's of the Gemini for two non-organ voices while I was playing organ from VB3m; this does throw a monkey wrench into the equation. It's always something.
I spent the afternoon integrating VB3m into my live rig but it’s not a worker as no matter how I wire it up it’s picking up program changes intended for other keys. So I have emailed Guido asking if he can address it in the next update.
Posted By: HSS Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/15/21 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by brenner13
Got the iOS version updated last night. One switch inverts all of the midi cc's for the drawbars. Works perfectly with my Studiologic Numa Compact 2X, now. Happy dance!
I just picked up the IOS version a few minutes ago and briefly played it off an old Iphone 6s from my Numa Compact 2x and it worked great with negligible latency.

Presumably like you (?), I flipped the switch in the app's settings for inverting the midi cc's for the drawbars but it didn't work for me on my Numa Compact 2x. I'll play with it more later when I have more time. Regardless, IMO VB3m is a good deal for just $14.
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/15/21 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
Just a note about how VB3m receives program changes. Unlike the Midi Map which totally customisable (though a save MIDI map option would be a bonus for some) the VB3 receives program changes in OMNI mode. So it's not tied to the basic channel and listens on all 16 channels. So if you are thinking of using with your live rig that might be an issue.
Damn......
I was thinking of using the VB3m for organ and coupling it with Gemini and using the two DSP's of the Gemini for two non-organ voices while I was playing organ from VB3m; this does throw a monkey wrench into the equation. It's always something.
I spent the afternoon integrating VB3m into my live rig but it’s not a worker as no matter how I wire it up it’s picking up program changes intended for other keys. So I have emailed Guido asking if he can address it in the next update.
My understanding from pinging other users on other sites is that controllers are picked up on OMNI (meaning it listens to all 16 channels) however I'm being told that you can change this to a specific channel, i.e. change OMNI to say channel 1. I'm also being told that the upper lower and pedals keybeds are fixed and assigned to channels 1, 2, and 3. So presumably if you can change your controller to not transmit midi 'program changes' on channel 1 then you should be covered. On the PC3 (which you said yours is down for repair) you can go into MIDI mode and change the basic midi channel to channel 1, then tell the PC3 to ONLY send Local on channel 1, no program changes while in program mode would be sent to VB3m. If you create a setup you can direct the setup to channel 1 and only have that setup send MIDI on Channel 1 for upper, 2 for lower. You could also reset the PC3 in MIDI mode to send on some extraneous channel, like channel 12. VB3m would not receive program changes on channel 12 so no midi program changes in program mode would ever be received by VB3m. then create a setup for VB3m and transmit that setup on channel 1. Theoretically this could be the workaround. Not sure about your controller and whether these options are available to you on your controller or not. I think this will be my workaround to get it working in the live rig. I'm about ready to pull the trigger now that I think that I have it mapped out to theoretically work. I also plan on purchasing a used Android phone, strip it down so nothing is running but VB3m and only peripherals necessary to run VB3m; everything else shut down. If the processor in the phone isn't being competing with for other resource needs because it's stripped down that should help with latency and audio glitches since it will be dedicated to only running VB3m. Cost of used Android phone is < $50 (actually I think i have an old phone tucked away as a backup); VB3m App $15; OTP plug $5 and USB/MIDI host $40. Total cost $110 ($60 if I use my old phone). Total cost to purchase a Mojo desktop $900. $110 vs. $900? no brainer.....
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/16/21 09:23 AM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Not sure about your controller and whether these options are available to you on your controller or not. I think this will be my workaround to get it working in the live rig. I'm about ready to pull the trigger now that I think that I have it mapped out to theoretically work. I also plan on purchasing a used Android phone, strip it down so nothing is running but VB3m and only peripherals necessary to run VB3m; everything else shut down. If the processor in the phone isn't being competing with for other resource needs because it's stripped down that should help with latency and audio glitches since it will be dedicated to only running VB3m. Cost of used Android phone is < $50 (actually I think i have an old phone tucked away as a backup); VB3m App $15; OTP plug $5 and USB/MIDI host $40. Total cost $110 ($60 if I use my old phone). Total cost to purchase a Mojo desktop $900. $110 vs. $900? no brainer.....

Well Dave I am sure Guido will do another update in the next few weeks. [Edit: Guido says it's on his to do list for the next update]. But I still don’t think your idea will work because any Program changes on any channel going into the Tablet/Phone will be picked up by VB3m because:

1) Program changes are always received on all channels
2) VB3m does not advertise it’s port (Midi Input) to other apps
3) you can’t map it to a specific MIDI input or app

Model D and B3-x both have excellent Audio/MIDI options have a look at the screenshots.

BTW I don’t have a PC3 but I am using a CP73 which has 4 completely programmable zones.
My current is solution is based on the fact that MIDI is serial. The CP sends its Zone information in order - Lowest Zone first. So if I allocate Model D to Zone 1 and VB3m to a higher zone I can set the Program Change. VB3m will change to the last PC it receives.

My zone allocation is now:
Zone 1 = Model D Channel 1 - sends a prog change to Model D and VB3m picks it up too but...
Zone 2 = Module Pro Channel 2 - also sends a prog change and VB3m picks it up too but...
Zone 3 = VB3m Channel 3 (Upper) - gets the correct prog change here.
Zone 4 = VB3m Channel 4 (Lower)

I think using it inside an AUv3 host like Camelot or AUM then routing etc. is more flexible and gets around some of the issues I’m having. But for live I prefer to avoid using additional apps and work in standalone mode - it’s just one less thing to worry about. But yes in terms of cost it’s a no brainer but I only have experience of iOS - I don’t know how stable/reliable Android is for music apps.

Attached picture IMG_0083.png
Attached picture IMG_0082.png
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/16/21 12:22 PM
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
Well Dave I am sure Guido will do another update in the next few weeks. [Edit: Guido says it's on his to do list for the next update].
What specifically is on his to-do list for the next update?

Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
I also plan on purchasing a used Android phone, strip it down so nothing is running but VB3m and only peripherals necessary to run VB3m; everything else shut down.
I'd consider springing for a used iPhone (or iPod Touch, which is the same as an iPhone except lacking cell and GPS connectivity), which probably wouldn't cost all that much more, and will probably be the better performing, more reliable platform, and also one that would be more flexible for other MIDI uses should you ever want them. (Better yet, an iPad, but that will probably be a little pricier still.) I'd also be hesitant to assume anything about VB3m performance on a particular Android phone without trying (or hearing from someone who had tried) that specific model. (Plus so many models can't run the newer versions of Android you may want for this.)

On an iPhone, I'd look for a 6S (regular or Plus) or original series SE. Those are the only models that can run the newest OS but also have a headphone jack. The older 4S and any of the 5 series also at least run an OS version that is new enough to be able to run the app, though besides not being updatable to the current OS (which ay limit their ability to run future updates to the app at some point), their slower processors may mean weaker performance. Sometimes you can find used iPhones on eBay that are dirt chip because the cell part is broken (i.e. they run apps, but they can't make calls), which would be fine for this use. One caveat about an iPhone... there is a "battery life" parameter you can check, and if it says battery life is under 80%, performance will be slowed, so in that case, you'd also have to factor in the cost of a bettery replacement. Sellers of used models should be able to tell you what the battery life is at before you buy (it's often mentioned in the listing).

On an iPod Touch, the current (7th generation) is the model of choice, though it should also run on the 5th and 6th gen, with the same caveats as older iPhones regarding slower performance and inability to update to the newest OS. I don't know whether the Touch has the same 80% battery issue that the iPhone has. (I've read that the iPad does not.)
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/16/21 12:41 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
Well Dave I am sure Guido will do another update in the next few weeks. [Edit: Guido says it's on his to do list for the next update].
What specifically is on his to-do list for the next update?

He didn't provide any other info but a list sounds promising!
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/16/21 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
" .. I'd also be hesitant to assume anything about VB3m performance on a particular Android phone without trying (or hearing from someone who had tried) that specific model.
Roger Gentile from the Mojo Group is running VB3m without hiccup on a Samjung J7 Android phone. 2G of Ram. 2016/2017 model. So fairly old phone (by today's standards) yet it runs without a hitch. So I'm not concerned.
Posted By: ap297 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/16/21 01:45 PM
Downloaded the android version to my samsung tab A (2016 version, android 6.0) and works great driving it from a usb midi controller (via a usb cable and OTG adapter).

-but my other controller is an aged Yamaha digital piano (5-PIN MIDI jacks only). So I connect the piano via a yamaha ux-16 midi/usb converter to the samsung tab A and I cannot get it to work! Am completely Stumped! Maybe the converter is the problem...after some research it seems a converter with android compatibility is rare?
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/16/21 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
" .. I'd also be hesitant to assume anything about VB3m performance on a particular Android phone without trying (or hearing from someone who had tried) that specific model.
Roger Gentile from the Mojo Group is running VB3m without hiccup on a Samjung J7 Android phone. 2G of Ram. 2016/2017 model. So fairly old phone (by today's standards) yet it runs without a hitch. So I'm not concerned.
That would give me high confidence in selecting a Samsung brand, J7 or newer. I would just have been hesitant to extrapolate that to other brands, or to older models. But since there's no need to do that (these being available pretty cheaply), this sounds like a perfectly good way to go.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/16/21 02:01 PM
Originally Posted by ap297
my other controller is an aged Yamaha digital piano (5-PIN MIDI jacks only). So I connect the piano via a yamaha ux-16 midi/usb converter to the samsung tab A and I cannot get it to work! Am completely Stumped! Maybe the converter is the problem...after some research it seems a converter with android compatibility is rare?
I think the (discontinued) UX-16 may not be fully class compliant. I would think that pretty much any current model from a known brand should work, like Roland UM-One, or the one from iConnectivity. (But not the M-Audio Uno which is known to have an issue with some Yamaha keyboards.)
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/16/21 03:43 PM
On the subject of Yamaha, I connected a fairly old psr353 my drummer has to a powered hub that was not powered at that moment and my Samsung note 10+. To my surprise it worked. And the pilot light of the hub was lit so either the Yamaha or the Samsung was pushing power into the hub. So I'm not sure why any Yamaha with a class B usb port is being problematic. Instead of a usb interface try a lowly bestbuy usb 2.0 powered hub.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/16/21 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
So I'm not sure why any Yamaha with a class B usb port is being problematic.
Yamaha's class compliance level varies. But regardless, in this case, his Yamaha does not have any USB port... it's 5-pin DIN only.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/16/21 04:24 PM
Both my Yamaha keyboards (P121 + CP73) have worked perfectly with my iPhone and iPads - Midi and Audio coming through the Apple CCK. FWIW it's probably always best to use official Apple connectors even though they cost a lot for what they are. Although that isn't the issue mentioned above smile

Possible bug and maybe on Guido's to do list: VB3m program mapping isn't working - it could be me because it's quite hard to tell whats happening. You have to leave the Program page and return to it to refresh it. Although the Organ page refreshes when it receives a PC which is nice.

I've been running it all day on an iPad Mini 2 (2014!) - Wifi only model.
Latency = 256
Controller = Nord E6D via CCK
Airplane Mode On- so WiFi and BT are off
Mini Jack out to Nord Mon In (mini jack socket which is convenient)

Very impressed, no clicks and feels and sounds good. Maybe this is just luck but I'm surprised how responsive it is.
Posted By: woodshedjones Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/16/21 07:05 PM
I found I was in the wrong mode on the Reface YC. It has midi control mode on/off. Off only sends note and velocity information. All the hardware controls were sending nothing, checked with a midi monitor android app. Turning on midi control mode makes the YC send all CC information as normal via the knobs and faders and also note information. Phew. The midi learn in the vb3m app all worked as instructions say. I had to set the range on the rotary lever to 0-75 to get all three positions to behave.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/16/21 07:55 PM
The ability to set max and min for the controller is a great feature as not all devices send the full 0-127 range. I had to change the range for the rotary to min 43 and max 85 to work with the Electro 6D.
Posted By: Brad Kaenel Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/17/21 08:37 AM
Originally Posted by Brad Kaenel
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
What is the latency option supposed to do? Wouldn't the goal be to minimize latency? What does the option provide and what are pros/cons of enabling/disabling this option?
With most apps, if you're getting crackles in your audio, you can increase the buffer to get rid of them, at the cost of additional latency. Previously, the VB3m buffer size was fixed, at what the app determined was best. But if the app "guessed wrong" and you were getting crackles, there was no way to over-ride its settings. It sounds like he's added the ability to choose the setting that works for you, just as most other apps do, instead of locking you into the app's best guess. (In theory, this could also work the other way... you might be able to get by with a LOWER bugger/latency setting than what the app had guessed at, too.)

Downloaded latest v1.1 for iOS onto my 16GB iPad Mini Gen 4. Runs great, although I was still getting some of crackles that others have reported. Changing the buffer settings didn't seem to make it better or worse (they're just tiny little pops; almost unnoticeable if you've got the percussion click cranked way up, but they're there.

After fully-charging my iPad, and switching to a non-USB-powered controller, all my cracks and pops went away. 2thu

And it turns out that my Reface CS makes a pretty darn good controller for VB3m. MIDI-over-USB thru the Camera Connector, and it has 13 sliders that send CCs, oriented conveniently in three groups: 2 — 9 — 2. Assigned “Drive” and “Rotary Lever” to the first two (again conveniently silk-screened as “Depth” and “Speed” on the CS), then Upper Drawbars 1-9 (inverted) in the middle, and Amp Select on the far right with one slider to spare. Plus, the CS has an expression pedal jack for the FC7, so plug that in — bada boom - bada bing — we’re rockin’ Gimme Some Lovin’ on the top of my new Legend ‘70s Compact. Hands down, this is the most fun I’ve ever had with a software instrument — hat’s off to you, Guido!
Posted By: HSS Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/18/21 12:34 AM
I just tried VB3m again on my Numa Compact 2x from my old Iphone 6s. After flipping the app's switch for inverting the drawbar midi cc's, VB3m worked great.

When I had some problems getting the Numa Compact 2x's drawbars configured a couple of days ago, I probably screwed something up because I was in a hurry to go for my second Covid jab.

I plan to try VB3m on my NE5d and SK1 over the next couple of days.

My take is that even though VB3m is not as robust / flexible as IK's B3-X, at a $14 price point, this may cause IK to drop its price for B3-X. Competition is good, especially for a cheapskate like me.
Posted By: miden Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/18/21 01:02 AM
Originally Posted by HSS
......................My take is that even though VB3m is not as robust / flexible as IK's B3-X, at a $14 price point, this may cause IK to drop its price for B3-X. Competition is good, especially for a cheapskate like me.

That would be great down here (Oz) it is at over $200 on the Oz app Store freak

EDIT: Sorry $199.99 (exchange rate must have dipped a bit grin
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/18/21 05:09 AM
Keep in mind that VB3m isn't Vb3-ii, it's the original VB3 (1.4). It's still a bargain no doubt but it is a step backwards from the current version and isn't nearly as good as b3x
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/18/21 08:38 AM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Keep in mind that VB3m isn't Vb3-ii, it's the original VB3 (1.4). It's still a bargain no doubt but it is a step backwards from the current version and isn't nearly as good as b3x
But it doesn’t need much CPU and I have always liked it - it has a certain mojo😎. I think it’s a smart move to release a version that will run well on a large number of devices. I bought the PC/Mac version in 2013 and it was rock solid. I’ve been running it on my old iPad Mini 2 (A7 chip, 1Gb Ram, 2014) with latency set at 256 and also running Korg Odyssei at the same time. Glitch free, no crashes - I’m on day 3 of this setup. So hopefully any improvements will be minor and not push up the CPU requirements.

By comparison B-3x will only run on my Mini with high buffers and nothing else running. And that’s the thing about trying to use mobile devices and laptops. You have to be prepared to tweak. Stuff rarely works out of the box and then a new OS update comes out and it all goes Pete Tong. What’s attractive about mobile devices for music is that the Apps sound fantastic but with a few exceptions cost less than £20. BTW this website is handy for app store deals - https://appsliced.co/

I am running iOS 12.5 so there will come a time when it’s totally out of date. I would probably try and replace it with one from the Apple refurb store. But in the meantime any incremental updates shouldn’t affect performance. And that is another issue with newer iPads when Apple release updates you are hoping the developer will fix anything the update breaks. There are different flavours of Android too aren’t there? I think my Motorola was running Ice Cream Sandwich - great name!
Posted By: davinwv Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/18/21 05:13 PM
VB3m has been running great on my Pixel 4XL. Earlier this weekend, I was controlling it with a Korg micoKEY Air 61 and playing along with songs playing in the YouTube Music app on the same phone!

In other news, Guido's DK61 controller seems to be coming along nicely:

https://www.facebook.com/177045085822655/posts/1565131267014023/
Posted By: Electro Fan Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/18/21 11:44 PM
Has anyone successfully mapped the iOS VB3m controls to the Korg Kronos and might be willing to help me out? I noticed that the joystick defaults to control the rotary lever, but only acts as a momentary toggle. I would love at the least to be able to control the rotary effect from the Kronos front panel. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Bill
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/20/21 09:35 PM
Originally Posted by Electro Fan
Has anyone successfully mapped the iOS VB3m controls to the Korg Kronos and might be willing to help me out? I noticed that the joystick defaults to control the rotary lever, but only acts as a momentary toggle. I would love at the least to be able to control the rotary effect from the Kronos front panel. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Bill
I can't help with the Kronos but if Guido is reading this thread, I hope the option to latch a CC is on his "to do list" for the next version. B-3X lets you do it on all CCs but the option for the rotary in VB3m would be useful. That would solve your problem or you could use momentary switch like a sustain pedal instead.
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/22/21 05:26 PM
interesting results being posted in the clonewheel forum. Thought I'd share them. Various users are posting performance of different phones:

The Samsung Galaxy Note 10 has a lot of problems when it comes to usb audio interfaces. Tried it with the Behringer UCA222 ( like Max Tempia) and with an Steinberg U22. it doesn´t work. I did some research in the Internet as well. Samsung did something with this Series that messes with usb interfaces. So .. its a no go for the VB3m on a Samsung Note 10

Ipad: good

Samsung j7, Huawei p8 and iPad 6 all work great.

Samsung J6:poor

Archos tablet works great.


Also, here's a VB3m to VB3ii comparison. Marked improvement in the leslie with VB3ii, especially the horn. Also a marked improvement on the upper drawbars of the organ. different sounding organs...

Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/22/21 05:49 PM
It works good on my sam note 10. I do have updates shut down so I'm not on the newest android. Latency is a little bit of a factor. It's not as short as b3x on my ipad. But it is quite usable. All my peripherals work including a midi expression pedal port .
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/22/21 05:58 PM
Interesting that even the different Samsungs have such different results (which again supports my thought that going iOS gives you a more consistent, predictable platform, as well as one with more potential for other possible musical uses)... but as long as you choose an Android device that has already been shown to work well, and VB3m is all you want to do, Android fans (or Apple non-fans) at least have viable options. But yeah, I really like that PC version better. I wonder what would be the cheapest PC tablet you could find that would run VB3-II well. Maybe something like a 1st-gen Surface Pro could even handle that.
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/22/21 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
" ..I wonder what would be the cheapest PC tablet you could find that would run VB3-II well. Maybe something like a 1st-gen Surface Pro could even handle that..."
I'm guessing Guido probably took a shot at VB3-ii and found performance issues which is why he is going with the original engine; yet uses pieces of the VB3-ii UI. For $15, it's worth the price of admission alone. Not only that, but he found a use for your old phone as well....
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/23/21 06:38 PM
Guido is full of surprises, a dual manual organ controller that apparently has a form of VB3 built into it as it has audio outs... always a caveat, 49 keys rather than 61, but I could work with 49, i only have 44 on my L100P.

https://www.facebook.com/instruments.crumar/photos/pcb.1569400096587140/1569398886587261/
Posted By: drawback Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/23/21 06:51 PM
Step in the right direction and I'm liking the visuals too.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/23/21 06:52 PM
Well spotted Dave! The spinet form is really interesting and reminiscent of the Yamaha Electones, many of which could be used to play VB3m. Price? The ghost is still there playing the top C!

Is this a mock up? I like the fact there is no external psu. Looks like 2 pin mains like the early Nords. Wonder what could be inside? Gemini maybe?
Posted By: To B3 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/23/21 07:52 PM
That intrigued me so much I started a thread about it LOL

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3094374/new-crumar-spinet-organ#Post3094374
Posted By: ap297 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/24/21 09:39 PM
I wanted to let folks know that the Roland UM-ONE-mk2 midi(5 pin) to usb interface works when connecting my ancient yamaha p95 digital piano to a 2016 samsung tab A (running android 7.0). The samsung has a nice 10 inch screen allowing for reasonable drawbar control of VB3m.
Am now thinking of finding an older samsung phone that could run VB3m and velcroing it to the p95 front panel....makes for a super compact setup! Thoughts on which samsung phone might work (I quickly tried an old samsung galaxy s5 but the audio was crackling)
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/24/21 09:39 PM
So I got this event tonight and I'm trying to decide what is going to be the main organ app, b3x or vb3m. I was slightly surprised that vb3m sounds better through my 65 fender deluxe (real one). B3x ain't bad but it sounds a little midrangy with a nasty scream that jumps out at A5. Yeah I know that is somewhat normal and desirable but this JUMPS OUT LOUD.
VB3M wins this round.
Posted By: drawback Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/24/21 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
So I got this event tonight and I'm trying to decide what is going to be the main organ app, b3x or vb3m. I was slightly surprised that vb3m sounds better through my 65 fender deluxe (real one). B3x ain't bad but it sounds a little midrangy with a nasty scream that jumps out at A5. Yeah I know that is somewhat normal and desirable but this JUMPS OUT LOUD.
VB3M wins this round.

You can do a ton of editing in the Leslie and Amp stages in B-3X, way more than VB3m. I find it hard to believe you can’t get what you need out of B-3X — it’s superior in many ways. This comes from an admirer of, and former VB3 user in Mojo-land. I have downloaded and tried VB3m but other than a smaller footprint and lower price there is nothing that I can think to it’s advantage, if you already own B-3X.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/24/21 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by drawback
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
So I got this event tonight and I'm trying to decide what is going to be the main organ app, b3x or vb3m. I was slightly surprised that vb3m sounds better through my 65 fender deluxe (real one). B3x ain't bad but it sounds a little midrangy with a nasty scream that jumps out at A5. Yeah I know that is somewhat normal and desirable but this JUMPS OUT LOUD.
VB3M wins this round.

You can do a ton of editing in the Leslie and Amp stages in B-3X, way more than VB3m. I find it hard to believe you can’t get what you need out of B-3X — it’s superior in many ways. This comes from an admirer of, and former VB3 user in Mojo-land. I have downloaded and tried VB3m but other than a smaller footprint and lower price there is nothing that I can think to it’s advantage, if you already own B-3X.
Yeah I'm sure I can dial b3x in. And it probably wins through a full range PA. But tonight I'm relying on a fender deluxe combo and funny enough vb3m sounds great right out of the gate through the fender and I was looking at a minimum couple hours of tweaking to get b3x to sound as good.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/24/21 10:34 PM
It's true that B-3x is generally a lot more customizable... but if VB3m happens to give you the sound you want out of the box, that's valuable, even if you could get the same out of B-3x with some effort. But as for me, I'm looking forward to trying it with my Nord C1 double manual, which would be a bit of a headache with B-3x because it would need another app to do drawbar translation. B-3x insists that all your drawbars (upper and lower) be on the same MIDI channel, while the Nord sends upper and lower drawbars on different MIDI channels (the same channels as its upper and lower manuals). VB3m directly supports that, B-3x doesn't. So that's something, too...
Posted By: drawback Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/24/21 10:53 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
It's true that B-3x is generally a lot more customizable... but if VB3m happens to give you the sound you want out of the box, that's valuable, even if you could get the same out of B-3x with some effort. But as for me, I'm looking forward to trying it with my Nord C1 double manual, which would be a bit of a headache with B-3x because it would need another app to do drawbar translation. B-3x insists that all your drawbars (upper and lower) be on the same MIDI channel, while the Nord sends upper and lower drawbars on different MIDI channels (the same channels as its upper and lower manuals). VB3m directly supports that, B-3x doesn't. So that's something, too...
Ah yes... not a problem I’m having, fortunately.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/25/21 06:12 AM
So I used vb3m tonight and had fun. It worked well and sounded good. BUT..there needs to adjustability on the leslie fast, it ramps up too quickly. And the latency is still bugging me. I am hopeful for future builds.
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/25/21 01:03 PM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
So I used vb3m tonight and had fun. It worked well and sounded good. BUT..there needs to adjustability on the leslie fast, it ramps up too quickly. And the latency is still bugging me. I am hopeful for future builds.
It needs a Vent.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/25/21 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
So I used vb3m tonight and had fun. It worked well and sounded good. BUT..there needs to adjustability on the leslie fast, it ramps up too quickly. And the latency is still bugging me. I am hopeful for future builds.
It needs a Vent.

It needs a Vent APP. Neo and GSI need to team up and form Guido & Guido and get us the vb3m/vent organ app. I'd bet people around here may pay up to $20 for it.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/25/21 11:29 PM
Update just announced:

Quote
What's new:
- Added free Cloud service for rapidly exchanging Programs and Midi maps
- Added new parameter: String Bass Decay
- Program Change events now respond only on basic channel
- Rotary speed selector added to Organ page
- Minor bug fixes and optimizations
Posted By: To B3 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/26/21 02:09 AM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
So I used vb3m tonight and had fun. It worked well and sounded good. BUT..there needs to adjustability on the leslie fast, it ramps up too quickly. And the latency is still bugging me. I am hopeful for future builds.
It needs a Vent.

It needs a Vent APP. Neo and GSI need to team up and form Guido & Guido and get us the vb3m/vent organ app. I'd bet people around here may pay up to $20 for it.

What about a Burn App? Especially since the hardware is discontinued 😍
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/26/21 02:43 PM
V1.2 is up on Google Play but no sign on the App Store yet. I think it can take time (24 hours?) for Apple to validate app updates. Maybe the Cloud services for MidiMaps and Patches is more difficult to setup in iOS. Custom MidiMaps is a great feature. Works really well with the Moog Model D.

[Edit] 1.2 up on the AppStore in the UK now @ 7pm
Posted By: ap297 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/26/21 03:38 PM
Vb3m andriod user here. I get audio crackles only when using an external keyboard. It's fine when playing from the app's touchscreen keyboard.
Has anyone encountered / solved this?
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/26/21 04:12 PM
Buffer/latency issues (e.g. crackles) are indeed only an issue when triggering from an external device. The solution is to increase the buffer/latency to the point that the crackles go away.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/26/21 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by ap297
Vb3m andriod user here. I get audio crackles only when using an external keyboard. It's fine when playing from the app's touchscreen keyboard.
Has anyone encountered / solved this?

I think your problem is either the version of android or model of phone or maybe your controller. I can set my buffers to the smallest size 64 and get no crackles . I'm not sure the latency is less than 128, it sometimes seems 128 is faster.?.
If you have a battery option to set for maximum performance, try that. Try another controller. If you dont have one, go to guitar center with a type B usb cable and passive hub with a micro usb on the end and plug into any Yamaha PSR they have out on the floor. Even that should work as a controller.
Posted By: ap297 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/26/21 05:14 PM
Thanks for the suggestions...Tried another controller, tried playing with buffer settings - same problem exists. That leaves the phone (samsung galaxy S5 android 6.0).
Interestingly my samsung galaxy tab A (2016 model running same android 6.0) doesnt exhibit crackling...
Does anyone know which android phones work well with vb3m?
One last thought - would that inexpensive bringer usb audio box help?
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/26/21 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
I can set my buffers to the smallest size 64 and get no crackles . I'm not sure the latency is less than 128, it sometimes seems 128 is faster.?
An illusion, or some other variable came into play when you compared. The relationship of buffer to latency is purely mathematical, it can't work backwards. Assuming a 44.1 kHz sample rate, a buffer size of 128 samples will yield latency of 128/44100, or 2.9 ms (which you may see rounded to 3 ms). When you change the buffer size, you alter that equation accordingly, but the latency figure is still the result of that calculation. Lowering the buffer size will always lower the latency... e.g. if you lower it to 64, you've got 64/44100, or 1.45 ms (half of 2.9). Note that this is *minimum* latency, assuming that nothing else in the chain is adding latency... which is basically never the case. SO you can have more than these amounts of latency in total, but not less.
Posted By: Noah DC Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/26/21 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by Brad Kaenel
And it turns out that my Reface CS makes a pretty darn good controller for VB3m. MIDI-over-USB thru the Camera Connector, and it has 13 sliders that send CCs, oriented conveniently in three groups: 2 — 9 — 2. Assigned “Drive” and “Rotary Lever” to the first two (again conveniently silk-screened as “Depth” and “Speed” on the CS), then Upper Drawbars 1-9 (inverted) in the middle, and Amp Select on the far right with one slider to spare. Plus, the CS has an expression pedal jack for the FC7, so plug that in — bada boom - bada bing — we’re rockin’ Gimme Some Lovin’ on the top of my new Legend ‘70s Compact. Hands down, this is the most fun I’ve ever had with a software instrument — hat’s off to you, Guido!

Figured I'd pop in to say I found Brad's tip here while searching around for a good mobile organ rig. I picked up an iPad and a Reface CS recently, and this sliders trick works flawlessly and sounds great (read: good enough!) on VB3. Biking over to a jam tonight and will be tossing the CS in my bag along with an iPad Air 4 and a Komplete Audio 6 interface. Just thought I'd endorse this suggestion for anyone who already has a Reface and is looking for the smallest-possible organ rig.
Posted By: Piktor Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/26/21 06:58 PM
Just updated to ios version 1.2.0. I'd like to remind you to save or record your midi mapping before you update, as you will have to recreate/reset it in the app after you update.

EDIT: Maybe strike that comment. I updated my older iPad first and had to reset the midi mapping, but that was not the case with the newer iPad. Hmm...




I think that a number of users will really appreciate the addition of the Leslie speed control to the main (drawbars) page.
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/26/21 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by ap297
Does anyone know which android phones work well with vb3m?
Check this post for some of them:

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3094171/re-gsi-vb3m-for-android#Post3094171

another user reported success with an S6; you have the S5? Looks like you're one phone version behind for success.

One good thing about this scenario is that Android phones, unlike Iphones, don't hold their value therefore you can pickup a used S6 very cheaply strip it down and dedicate it to VB3m.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/26/21 08:59 PM
Originally Posted by Piktor
I think that a number of users will really appreciate the addition of the Leslie speed control to the main (drawbars) page.
Yes that's useful. Oh and the Program Name now updates when it receives a program change - no more guessing!
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/27/21 03:07 PM
Originally Posted by ap297
Thanks for the suggestions...Tried another controller, tried playing with buffer settings - same problem exists. That leaves the phone (samsung galaxy S5 android 6.0).
Interestingly my samsung galaxy tab A (2016 model running same android 6.0) doesnt exhibit crackling...
Does anyone know which android phones work well with vb3m?
One last thought - would that inexpensive bringer usb audio box help?

Posted By: HSS Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/27/21 04:10 PM
Thanks for the heads-up D-Dave. That's good news about VB3m running on a Samsung Galaxy S6.

I already have VB3m running great on my Iphone 6s and Ipad Pro 9.7". I also have a Samsung Galaxy S7 with Android 8.0 OS so I may pick up VB3m for it and give it a whirl.

FWIW... At $14 a pop, VB3m is a no-brainer even if I have to buy seperate IOS and Android versions of it for a total of $28. Having said this, I wish there was a way I could get a discount because I'm a shameless cheapskate. wink

Kudos to Guido for cranking this puppy out at an incredible price and then fast-as-a-speeding-bullet updating in response to user recommendations.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/27/21 05:40 PM
For those who haven’t used it yet the Cloud feature is very good. Once you create a user name that’s it. Save your patches or your Mdi Maps. It just works. It may get difficult to find your patches as the user base grows though!
FYI I am running it on 256 latency on a 2014 iPad MIni. No clicks - perfect. Very little latency that I can detect. Surely given the price of a 2nd hand iPad this is the way to go rather than fessing with an Android phone?
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/27/21 05:53 PM
Yes, as I stated earlier in the thread Android smart phones don't hold much value so picking up a 2nd hand older device is pretty cheap an can be dedicated to VB3m; and as a backup you could always put one on your current phone in case the older device were to go tits up at a gig or in the studio.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/27/21 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Yes, as I stated earlier in the thread Android smart phones don't hold much value so picking up a 2nd hand older device is pretty cheap an can be dedicated to VB3m; and as a backup you could always put one on your current phone in case the older device were to go tits up at a gig or in the studio.
Yes that’s true. But what are the audio converters like? The iPads seem to provide really good audio quality. And you have the option of a huge range of other apps. I’m just not sure that paying a little more isn’t going to pay off in the long run. Of course I have no idea of the cost of used iPads in the US but they are quite cheap in the UK.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/27/21 07:26 PM
Plans on putting vb3m on multiple devices may have snags. I put it on my smartphone, no problem. I put it on an old chewi android tablet. Then I tried to put it on another almost identical chewi tab I have and google play wouldnt allow it. It seemed like maybe I could put it on a 3rd device if it was a different kind but I dont have a different 3rd thing so I dont know.

Incidentally vb3m loaded and worked on my old chewi, but it wouldnt get midi from the usb port so I couldn't use a controller. Those tabs need a data directional cable which I didn't extensively try to troubleshoot.
Posted By: RandyFF Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/27/21 11:57 PM
So... Galileo also makes an Android app. Don't know if this has been done in this thread yet, TL;DR, but being it's at the same price ($1 more), it's a good question: how do these 2 compare?
Posted By: dickiefunk Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/28/21 10:22 AM
Originally Posted by RandyFF
So... Galileo also makes an Android app. Don't know if this has been done in this thread yet, TL;DR, but being it's at the same price ($1 more), it's a good question: how do these 2 compare?

I have both and VB3m is a lot better in my opinion.
Posted By: brenner13 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/28/21 12:49 PM
For me, Galileo can be more versatile and take your sound far out to interstellar space with all of the effects and such. However, it takes quite a bit of tweaking to get basic Hammond tones to my liking. I also prefer Galileo’s UI. The dang thing is actually playable, right from the iPad; two manuals and the option to put pedals on there too. Very good use of the available space.

VB3m sounds like a great Hammond with Leslie, right out of the box.
Posted By: To B3 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/28/21 02:02 PM
Already installed the update and uploaded some of my presets to the cloud. They are under my screen name there, Thiago B3. I sugest specially the Hard Soul Organ, the go-to patch that I will use with my band, Hard Soul Combo (facebook.com/hardsoulcombo if you want to check it out).

The string bass decay feature is great for those left hand bass gigs!
Posted By: sunspot Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/28/21 04:55 PM
Well here's my personal Android experience with VB3m, YMMV...

Every once in a while during big shopping events, Amazon drops their Kindle Fire HD 8's down to $50 brand new. I've acquired two of them, for that price I think they are pretty decent little tablets. It's relatively painless to "hack" them to add the Google Play store on them. I did this to add the Eventide H9 Control app for my H9 Max. It connects to the H9 via Bluetooth and the Kindle Fire uses it's micro USB connector for mains power. Win.

Took a flyer on VB3m for Android yesterday. Installed and seems to work on the Kindle Fire just fine. Unfortunately, I don't yet have an OTG cable, so I can't test connectivity to a decent USB MIDI keyboard. The only Bluetooth capable keyboard I have is a little Roland 2-octave boutique mini key version. I managed to get it paired with the Kindle Fire, but I cannot figure out how to tell VB3m to recognize/use it. I don't see anything in the VB3m settings like you would on an iOS device.

In addition, I found out yesterday that the Kindle Fire cannot recognize/use plugged-in USB devices and charge via mains power at the same time. Big time lose for me. Apple iOS devices have been able to do this for several years now. Also, as someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, there is no way to disable the Kindle Fire from the display going to sleep. Another lose.

I'm going to get a refund on the Android version and stick to iOS, at least for now. Android still just isn't there yet as a platform - too fragmented on capabilities depending on manufacturer. Again, YMMV.
Posted By: RandyFF Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 04/29/21 07:54 AM
Originally Posted by brenner13
For me, Galileo can be more versatile and take your sound far out to interstellar space with all of the effects and such. However, it takes quite a bit of tweaking to get basic Hammond tones to my liking. I also prefer Galileo’s UI. The dang thing is actually playable, right from the iPad; two manuals and the option to put pedals on there too. Very good use of the available space.

VB3m sounds like a great Hammond with Leslie, right out of the box.

Yeah, esp Galileo 2, it's fantastically done and versatile for a mobile app. However, I don't have a lot of experience with decent keyboard organs, so I don't know exactly what sounds to reach for. Makes sense to put time into the VB3m first. Guess I've got to find organ styles I like and try to achieve those sounds.
Posted By: woodshedjones Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 05/03/21 04:45 PM
I'm stuck here. This might be specific to my keyboard but trying to get my reface YC to operate vb3m slow, stop, and fast Leslie. I can midi map the rotary to the reface Yc's rotary lever but in midi local control off mode the lever only has sends two positions. Currently 0 and 127.

What can I do to switch between three positions slow, stop and fast?

Thanks anyone...
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 05/03/21 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by woodshedjones
I'm stuck here. This might be specific to my keyboard but trying to get my reface YC to operate vb3m slow, stop, and fast Leslie. I can midi map the rotary to the reface Yc's rotary lever but in midi local control off mode the lever only has sends two positions. Currently 0 and 127.

What can I do to switch between three positions slow, stop and fast?

Thanks anyone...

Not sure of reface capability as I don't own one. You mentioned that when midi local control off mode is used the lever reverts to slow and fast and you can't get stop. What happens if you turn local on, do all three positions then work? If so four thoughts:

1) set local to "on", turn the volume down on the reface to zero
2) have two presets, one sends 0 and 127 and the second preset sends 64 and 127 (if in fact you can set the lever to something other than zero). If this can't be done, revert to #1
3) purchase a slow/stop/fast foot pedal and use that
4) repurpose a drawbar (let's say you don't use the 7th drawbar), make the 7th drawbar the 8th, make the 8th drawbar the 9th and make the 9th drawbar control the leslie, all the way down is slow, halfway is stop, all the way up is fast.

Sometimes you have to work with what you got; for simplicity purpose option 1 would make the most sense. it's a quick flick of the volume control.
Posted By: woodshedjones Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 05/04/21 06:25 PM
Thanks for your advice DD.

1. I have the phone audio routed into the aux in of the reface, so if I pull the volume on the YC it also kills the volume of vb3m. Although this solution (local on) does make the rotary lever have 3 postions. So it would be a fine solution if I choose to have audio straight out of phone into an amp.

2. Presets? The reface YC doesn't have any, if that's what you mean.

3. Could do. It does have an expression pedal jack. But then I've lost my swell.

4. I have chosen this one. I have a fader that natively is assigned to vibrato depth so I have mapped that to Leslie and it works fine for 3 speeds. Of course I'd prefer the location of the rotary lever but like you say, you've got to find a way to make it work.

I may go back to the rotary lever choice as it can do slow/fast and I don't often play stop.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 05/04/21 07:16 PM
If you dont use leslie stop very often and dont need to switch the leslie speed from brake to fast for that particular song, you can just tap the halfmoon on the touch screen of your phone with your finger to the middle position.
Posted By: woodshedjones Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 05/05/21 07:41 AM
Thanks, yes I forget all the controls are still there on screen if I really need access.
Posted By: dickiefunk Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 05/05/21 07:16 PM
I still haven’t been able to use VB3m on my Yamaha YC61 without crackles unless I raise the buffer to 512 or higher!? I also have pure piano and don’t get crackles with this even at the 128 buffer!?
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 05/05/21 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by dickiefunk
I still haven’t been able to use VB3m on my Yamaha YC61 without crackles unless I raise the buffer to 512 or higher!? I also have pure piano and don’t get crackles with this even at the 128 buffer!?
What device are you using? and is it IOS or android?
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 05/05/21 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by dickiefunk
I still haven’t been able to use VB3m on my Yamaha YC61 without crackles unless I raise the buffer to 512 or higher!? I also have pure piano and don’t get crackles with this even at the 128 buffer!?

I'm seriously not trying to be a jerk when I say some gear and apps just dont work together . I have a positive experience to post. This is the first time I used vb3m since the cloud update. Whatever bugs guido fixed really seems like it brought down the latency. I usb'd my phone to my jdxi for a micro rig and was surprised that the lag is in the range of actually being able to enjoy playing without being bugged by the delay. That even letting the phone power the hub with my thumb sided usb sound card. Now one last little thing, slow down the up ramp time by a little bit.

Btw DF, do you have an option in your yamaha to select vendor or generic usb driver?
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 05/05/21 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by dickiefunk
I still haven’t been able to use VB3m on my Yamaha YC61 without crackles unless I raise the buffer to 512 or higher!? I also have pure piano and don’t get crackles with this even at the 128 buffer!?
I see from an earlier post you are using iPad Mini4 and iPhone 7.

Try the iPad with the charger connected
Shut down and restart - just clears stuff from memory I suppose
Turn Airplane Mode on
Check no other apps are running
Open VB3m
Set the latency to 256
You could turn off Background Audio but shouldn't make any difference with this test
Turn the Drive off (so you have a nice clean VB3m signal)
Turn the Reverb off (uses less processing)

On the YC61:
Set USB volume to 64
Turn all the sections off
If you are using a zone to play VB3m make sure the YC61 is on a different channel ie 16

If this still produces clicks/crackles then choose a lower(!) latency setting, close VB3m down and restart.

As Jr. Deluxe says some stuff sometimes does not work. But I use an iPad Mini 2 with a CP 73 and most of the time it's crackle free. BTW how much free storage have you got on the iPad? If I run it with my iPhone 7 battery has to be above 50% and Airplane mode on.

The Model D app recommends Airplane mode on, or Wireless off and at least 50% battery to avoid crackles.
Posted By: dickiefunk Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 05/06/21 07:45 AM
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
Originally Posted by dickiefunk
I still haven’t been able to use VB3m on my Yamaha YC61 without crackles unless I raise the buffer to 512 or higher!? I also have pure piano and don’t get crackles with this even at the 128 buffer!?
I see from an earlier post you are using iPad Mini4 and iPhone 7.

Try the iPad with the charger connected
Shut down and restart - just clears stuff from memory I suppose
Turn Airplane Mode on
Check no other apps are running
Open VB3m
Set the latency to 256
You could turn off Background Audio but shouldn't make any difference with this test
Turn the Drive off (so you have a nice clean VB3m signal)
Turn the Reverb off (uses less processing)

On the YC61:
Set USB volume to 64
Turn all the sections off
If you are using a zone to play VB3m make sure the YC61 is on a different channel ie 16

If this still produces clicks/crackles then choose a lower(!) latency setting, close VB3m down and restart.

As Jr. Deluxe says some stuff sometimes does not work. But I use an iPad Mini 2 with a CP 73 and most of the time it's crackle free. BTW how much free storage have you got on the iPad? If I run it with my iPhone 7 battery has to be above 50% and Airplane mode on.

The Model D app recommends Airplane mode on, or Wireless off and at least 50% battery to avoid crackles.

Thanks, I’ll try those suggestions 👍🏻 It’s a strange problem as I read someone is using it with an older iPhone 6 without a single crackle at 256.
Posted By: nadroj Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 06/20/21 12:46 PM
I am a happy, happy man.

Bought this for my iPhone 7 last night. Hooked it up to the MODX via a camera connection kit (thanks to the MODX's audio/MIDI USB interface) and had a lot of fun.

Dug out my old Ocean Beach DB-1 Digital Drawbars, decided to see if they'd work. Had to tweak the MIDI CC cos they were acting a bit weird, and hey presto. My MODX is now a single manual clonewheel organ with full drawbar control.

I was always a bit anxious about stability when using mobile apps, but after 45 minutes of straight playing I had no problems at all. Only time the app crashed was when I tried to store a preset, but that was a one off. Been enjoying the MODX more and more recently, and this addition has just taken it much closer to that eagerly desired 1 board solution. My Electro is currently lying in it's case collecting dust.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 06/26/21 10:38 PM
Can anyone else confirm this issue. I'm running VB3m 1.2 on iOS:

1) change the basic channel to 4 or higher
2) play the pedal tones - if you're on channel 4 they will be on channel 6
3) now select a new preset
4) pedal tones are now on channel 3

If I change to a new basic channel the pedal tones play on the correct channel until I recall a new preset. Then they revert to channel 3 again.

I suspect most people have just left it on the channel 1 in which case there isn't an issue.
Posted By: Jazz+ Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 06/26/21 10:43 PM
Where’s the Rhodes for iOS?
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 06/27/21 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
Can anyone else confirm this issue. I'm running VB3m 1.2 on iOS:

1) change the basic channel to 4 or higher
2) play the pedal tones - if you're on channel 4 they will be on channel 6
3) now select a new preset
4) pedal tones are now on channel 3

If I change to a new basic channel the pedal tones play on the correct channel until I recall a new preset. Then they revert to channel 3 again.

I suspect most people have just left it on the channel 1 in which case there isn't an issue.
report it to guido. it is probably a software bug and he might author a fix for it.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 06/27/21 03:14 PM
Yes I did that a few weeks ago but didn't get a reply. The few times I've reported bugs to Guido he's usually been quick to confirm there's a problem. But I've heard nothing back so I'm thinking maybe he can't reproduce it and it might indicate there's a issue with my setup. It's not major but it does force me to use Basic Channel 1 or avoid channel 3 in any setups I use.
Posted By: To B3 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 06/28/21 03:45 PM
Just released a recording of my band, our first original single, using the VB3m as the main instrument. Just a little tape delay on the DAW, no more editing. Controlled it with my Korg CX3. It´s on the shameless plugs section, hope you like it and help me to reach GSi:

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbth...rom-my-organ-bass-drums-trio#Post3101622
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 07/05/21 10:11 AM
Yes that's nice!

I'm close to using VB3m for our next gig BUT.... I keep finding bugs!! I posted about bass pedals only playing on Midi Channel 3 a few posts back.

Well here is another. BTW I'm running on iOS and have tested this on iPhone and iPad.

1) Set Drawbars at 0, Percussion and Vibrato off. Volume and Swell at max.
2) Play on any Midi Channel and it sounds like someone tapping a microphone - which is interesting because.......
3) Select Leslie 1 or 2 then set Mic Balance to Horn - no key thump
4) Set Mic Balance fully left to Rotor - key thump is back.

Sound is present on every Midi Channel - so set Basic Channel is set 1 and play on Midi Channel 10 it's still there. It's not too intrusive, in fact I thought it was my keybed. Sounds OK when it mixed with the organ sound, but as VB3m is 'listening' on every channel it's a little odd the hearing that noise when you play Module etc.
I've sent a message to Guido at GSi so hopefully he will get back to me.
Posted By: dsteinschneider Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 07/05/21 10:14 PM
At open mics I visit, a portable, phone based VB3 will increase the amount of times I can particpate. I bought an E-MU XBoard 49 on ebay for $65. It needed one of the keybed cables resoldered to the contact strip board but otherwise is in great shape. It can be powered by 3 AA batteries, I noticed my Pixel 4a barely draws when the XBoard batteries are in. I mounted a 3.5mm TRS to 1/4 females and the OTG to the XBoard by using 3M clear double sided tape to hold small plastic zip tie holders.

This was very usable but the XBoard only has rotary knobs so when I came across this thread and saw Max Tempia using the NanoKontrol I changed course. I have a NanoKontrol2 and a small switchable 4 port USB 3 hub. I'm going out through the phone OTG to the hub. Then the hub is connected to the NanoKontrol2 and the phone. I mapped all the knobs, switches and sliders on the NanoKontrol2 to the defaults in VB3m. It's working well and the NanoKontrol2 doesn't seem to add any battery drain. Right now I'm fabricating a 32cm wide by 16cm "shelf" for the NanoKontrol2 that is folded in the middle at a 45 degree angle where the phone and the USB switch will mount on the upper part. I will post photos tomorrow when I'm done.

I'm also using the free version IK iLectric, it has one model called the Suitcase EP. iLectric listens on all MIDI channels so I have to close VB3m and open iLectric. When iLectric opens it doesn't work until I "USB cycle" the keyboard so the switch on the USB hub makes that somewhat painless.

I have VB3 1.4, VB3 II, B5 and B3-X but often use VB3 1.4, it sounds right for rock classics. I'm really happy Guido released VB3m.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 07/05/21 10:21 PM
I use the free ilectric also. I tried to upgrade but it doesn't work so dont try it. Read the play store reviews. Also you are using a 49 key so you may not have noticed but one low key is dead. So it's just like using a real vintage EP.
Posted By: dsteinschneider Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 07/06/21 12:21 PM
Thanks for the heads up on the ilectric upgrades. I did read the Play store reviews but having someone here confirm helps, there can be so many nonsense reviews. That one Rhodes is sufficient for my battery operated rig. I would love to map my XBoard knobs to the effects controls but it doesn't look like that's supported. BTW, if the upgrade for $10 worked is it just one extra instrument or all of them?
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 07/06/21 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by dsteinschneider
Thanks for the heads up on the ilectric upgrades. I did read the Play store reviews but having someone here confirm helps, there can be so many nonsense reviews. That one Rhodes is sufficient for my battery operated rig. I would love to map my XBoard knobs to the effects controls but it doesn't look like that's supported. BTW, if the upgrade for $10 worked is it just one extra instrument or all of them?

I actually bought the paid thing for ipad. You still dont get them all but you get like 10 or 20 I forget exactly. But they aren't all that much different. But android changes so much from version to version that apps get left behind and the developers dont want to rebuild their app twice a year so they abandon support. I believe ik abandoned ilectric android. They should really pull the app off of the play store or put a warning on there to not upgrade.
Posted By: dsteinschneider Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 07/06/21 05:31 PM
Here's the tin prototype of the plate I'm going to Velcro on:



[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]dcs_vbm3_mount by dsteinschneider, on Flickr
Posted By: dsteinschneider Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 07/19/21 02:57 PM
I finished my Android/XBoard project.

The back plate was scavenged from 2007 TV. I used 3M 30lb double sided tape to attach it plus 3 screws. I cut little 1/4" by 1 1/2" plates and epoxied them to the inside, then drilled a 5/16" hole and used self tapping screws. When I screwed in I held the little plate with a pliers.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]dcs_xboard_phone_mount_back_plate_2 by dsteinschneider, on Flickr

The 4mm thumbscrews are from PC's. The metal brackets were 1/16 thick corner braces. These also will hold a Dell 11" 2 in 1 laptop. That's why the slotted bracket on the right sticks out - the laptop is narrower than the NanoKontrol2. I'm holding the USB C cable to the plate with a neodymium magnet scavenged from a hard drive. You would think that would somehow impair the USB C OTG connection but I've played this for hours with no noticeable issue. The phone isn't in place because I needed it to take these photos smile The cable tie down just below the USB C OTG connector is just to keep the USB C connection straight.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]dcs_xboard_phone_mount by dsteinschneider, on Flickr

Here is a photo of the underside of the Xboard 49 top. The threaded nut plates are for surfboard fins. The are attached with 3M 30lb double sided tape.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]dcs_xboard_surf_fin_plates by dsteinschneider, on Flickr

I have assigned the top row of the NanoKontrol2 buttons to the Vibrato and Percussion Tablets. The knobs control Volume, Drive, KeyClick, Bass, Treble and Reverb - the right most one controls drawbar 9.

Thanks to Max Tempia for inspiring this build
Posted By: Delaware Dave Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 07/19/21 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by dsteinschneider
I finished my Android/XBoard project.

The back plate was scavenged from 2007 TV. I used 3M 30lb double sided tape to attach it plus 3 screws. I cut little 1/4" by 1 1/2" plates and epoxied them to the inside, then drilled a 5/16" hole and used self tapping screws. When I screwed in I held the little plate with a pliers.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]dcs_xboard_phone_mount_back_plate_2 by dsteinschneider, on Flickr

The 4mm thumbscrews are from PC's. The metal brackets were 1/16 thick corner braces. These also will hold a Dell 11" 2 in 1 laptop. That's why the slotted bracket on the right sticks out - the laptop is narrower than the NanoKontrol2. I'm holding the USB C cable to the plate with a neodymium magnet scavenged from a hard drive. You would think that would somehow impair the USB C OTG connection but I've played this for hours with no noticeable issue. The phone isn't in place because I needed it to take these photos smile The cable tie down just below the USB C OTG connector is just to keep the USB C connection straight.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]dcs_xboard_phone_mount by dsteinschneider, on Flickr

Here is a photo of the underside of the Xboard 49 top. The threaded nut plates are for surfboard fins. The are attached with 3M 30lb double sided tape.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]dcs_xboard_surf_fin_plates by dsteinschneider, on Flickr

I have assigned the top row of the NanoKontrol2 buttons to the Vibrato and Percussion Tablets. The knobs control Volume, Drive, KeyClick, Bass, Treble and Reverb - the right most one controls drawbar 9.

Thanks to Max Tempia for inspiring this build
what does this post have to do with VB3m for android?
Posted By: dsteinschneider Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 07/21/21 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
[quote=dsteinschneider
what does this post have to do with VB3m for android?

It was how I put together a keyboard rig that runs on batteries for VB3m but I get your point. If you're a moderator please remove my two last posts.
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 07/21/21 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by dsteinschneider
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
[quote=dsteinschneider
what does this post have to do with VB3m for android?

It was how I put together a keyboard rig that runs on batteries for VB3m but I get your point. If you're a moderator please remove my two last posts.
I dont think its totally off topic. Especially after 9 pages.
Posted By: To B3 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 08/26/21 12:54 PM
Any updates im sight for the VB3m? Not that it is needed, but some new features, even if they are in app buy with an extra price, like some effects like delay, wah and other things would be great. And, of corse, even better if they could be saved on the presets. Just dreamin here. smile
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 08/26/21 04:25 PM
No update listed at google play. I could live without delay ect although that stuff would be nice, I'd just like to see the latency in android come down atleast a tiny bit.
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 08/26/21 07:06 PM
There are few bugs that Guido is aware of - maybe September for an update, Has anyone else noticed quite a loud click when changing presets? Happens on both iPhone and iPad. Not a huge issue for live but I really notice it playing solo at home.
Posted By: To B3 Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 08/26/21 07:29 PM
I did not notice that click when changing the presets. Anyway, would be nice some extra things on this update.Did you hear anything about september or is it just a guess?

For comparison, the Galileo has extra effects and other functions and works flawlessly on my old iPad 3 too. C´mon Guido, you already have those, only thing missing is putting into the vb3m for free LOL grin
Posted By: ChazKeys Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 08/26/21 10:25 PM
No it's a guess - speculating that once he's finished the wired Gemini editor he might turn his attention to VB3m. Perhaps end of the year might be more realistic?
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 11/18/21 05:37 AM
When I run VB3m as an AUv3 in Camelot Pro, it only lets me select the first 16 presets (the factory ones). My user preset at location 17 (the only one I created) doesn't show its name when I view presets from within Camelot Pro, and if I select the 17th preset anyway (which just says User Preset), I don't get my sound. I'd be curious to know whether anyone else here has seen (or can reproduce) this behavior.

My temporary solution was to use Camelot Pro for my other apps, but not for VB3m, which instead I ran concurrently as a standalone app on its own MIDI channel which Camelot Pro was not addressing. This mostly worked for my purposes, except when I switched away from playing VB3m to another app (running via Camelot), and then switched back to VB3m, the overdrive on VB3m was gone!
Posted By: Jazz+ Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 11/18/21 06:46 PM
I love my VB3m on iPhone 6. I have Preset 1 edited to the classic Jimmy Smith setting and stick with that. The latency is low and not troublesome.
How about a Guido Rhodes app?
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 11/18/21 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by Jazz+
I love my VB3m on iPhone 6. I have Preset 1 edited to the classic Jimmy Smith setting and stick with that. The latency is low and not troublesome.
How about a Guido Rhodes app?

I've been waiting for an android Mr Ray app. And also to shave just a bit more latency off the android version of vb3m.
Posted By: AnotherScott Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 11/18/21 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
And also to shave just a bit more latency off the android version of vb3m.
Does any Android MIDI app have less latency than VB3m? If not, he may be at the limits of what it's currently capable of. But maybe switching to some other android device could offer some improvement...? Not that it's necessariy justifiable just for this, but when time comes to upgrade your phone, maybe its VB3m performance would be a worthwhile selection criteria!
Posted By: Jr. Deluxe Re: GSi VB3m for Android! - 11/18/21 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
And also to shave just a bit more latency off the android version of vb3m.
Does any Android MIDI app have less latency than VB3m? If not, he may be at the limits of what it's currently capable of. But maybe switching to some other android device could offer some improvement...? Not that it's necessariy justifiable just for this, but when time comes to upgrade your phone, maybe its VB3m performance would be a worthwhile selection criteria!

Synth FM has less latency. A very interesting dx7 app but with 4 OPs. Even the very faulty ilectric piano from IK is faster. So I know better results are possible.
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