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#511363 03/28/04 08:50 PM
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"Close To The Edge" by Yes, released [presumably] in 1972: a REMARKABLE achievement from my POV. How about listing some other no-holds-barred, soul-feeding titles?

#511364 03/28/04 08:53 PM
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I just bought the CD remaster of that album yesterday. They really did a fine job of NOT screwing up the original. Plus, the cover of "America" was a great bonus track.

#511365 03/28/04 08:59 PM
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Most recently for me, Dylan's "Love and Theft"

#511366 03/28/04 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by maarvold:
"Close To The Edge" by Yes, released [presumably] in 1972: a REMARKABLE achievement from my POV. How about listing some other no-holds-barred, soul-feeding titles?
Piles of them. But if you like that "Art Rock" style, "Foxtrot" (Genesis) and "Burning for You" (the Strawbs) comes to mind.

Bill


"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

Steve Martin

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

#511367 03/28/04 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:
Piles of them. But if you like that "Art Rock" style, "Foxtrot" (Genesis) and "Burning for You" (the Strawbs) comes to mind.

Bill[/QB]
The song "Cut Like a Diamond" by the Strawbs, and "Suppers Ready" by Genesis (from those respective albums)are classics.

Bill


"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

Steve Martin

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

#511368 03/28/04 09:32 PM
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Quote:
But if you like that "Art Rock" style...
It isn't because it's art rock; it's more about the magnitude of the work itself--artistically, technically, ambition-wise, vision-wise... it's a lot of 'bang for the buck'. Maybe not as strong as Miles' "Kind of Blue" or Stravinsky (at 27) writing "The Firebird", but still really impressive. Good enough to get me there.

#511369 03/28/04 10:04 PM
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In the same vein, I would forward Dream Theater's Metropolis Pt 2: Scenes from a Memory as just such a soul-moving magnum opus.

#511370 03/28/04 11:14 PM
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For me, as far as perfect Yes production/engineering/total vibe goes, it's "Awaken" and "Gates of Delirium". And to think.. those guys are still packing stadiums.

I hated Yes in 1970 when friends first played some of Time & Word and "Yes album" to me. I particularly disliked what I heard as completely idiotic lyrics. Couldn't understand why a lot of my friends liked them. A radio dj friend of mine kept on me in the fall of 71.."ya gotta go see em, ya gotta go see em". So I did, not expecting much.

I don't know what happened. The concert was incredible, the songs clicked in a different way to me, most of "Fragile" was played that night, and I became an enthusiastic fan. I used to go see them play at least twice a year after that first encounter.

I still think Yes lyrics are idiotic and I wish Jon wouldn't have used the words "sun" and "source" in every third song, but on the other hand, after thirty five years of them being together, it just wouldn't be right for the lyrics to be any different than they are. The recordings still hold up for me and I still like the two songs I mentioned the best of all of them.

#511371 03/28/04 11:41 PM
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Ten true summers we'll be there and laughing too

What's idiotic about that line?

#511372 03/29/04 12:45 AM
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I am a big YES fan from the beginning in 1968.

Have you seen the 'Symphonic' DVD, recorded in Amsterdam 2001?


The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future.
#511373 03/29/04 12:45 AM
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I loved the band and this album in particular. Never have been much given to lyrics so I can't comment. But I saw the band only once during their Close To The Edge tour. I think they played that entire record.


All the best,

Henry Robinett
#511374 03/29/04 12:47 AM
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Nope, gotta re-emphasize this point.

This is such a beautiful piece of poetry - how can you say it's idiotic?

Quote:
Love comes to you and you follow
Lose one on to the heart of the sunrise
SHARP-DISTANCE
How can the wind with its arms
All around me

Lost on a wave and then after
Dream on on to the heart of the sunrise
SHARP-DISTANCE
How can the wind with so many around me
Lost in the city

Lost in their eyes as you hurry by
Counting the broken ties they decide
Love comes to you and then after
Dream on on to the heart of the sunrise
Lost on a wave that you're dreaming
Dram on on to the heart of the sunrise
SHARP-DISTANCE
How can the wind with its arms all around
Me
SHARP-DISTANCE
How can the wind with so many around me
I feel lost in the city

Lost in their eyes as you hurry by
Counting the broken ties they decided

Straightt light moving and removing
SHARPNESS of the colour sun shine
Straight light searching all the meanings
Of the song
Long last treatment of the telling that
Relates to all the words sung
Dreamer easy in the chair that really fits
You

Love comes to you and then after
Dream on on to the heart of the sunrise
SHARP-DISTANCE
How can the sun with its arms all around
Me
SHARP-DISTANCE
How can the wind with so many around me
I feel lost in the city

#511375 03/29/04 03:56 AM
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Ahh..the symphonic live dvd is incredible! The orchestra treatment of Gates of Delirium and others is just great. The surround mix is great, the video production is great. I just wish Rick had been with them on that tour three years ago.

As far as Jon's lyrics, I don't think all of them are idiotic...just a lot of them. Some of them work for me, some don't. In my opinion, over the course of 35 years, Jon could have picked a lot more variety of words, even if the intent was to write from "his cosmic mind" as he once sang.

But..... it doesn't really matter. At this point in time, I don't really wish that they had done anything differently than the way it's gone down. The lyrics are okay the way they are. I like the band no matter what. In fact, I'm probably one of the few who even like Topographic Oceans..well, not side 3 very much.

Yes started when the Beatles were still around and they're still selling out huge venues all over the world, including here. They look healthy and their playing is still very strong. That's just not a common thing. I have no gripe with anything they do.

#511376 03/29/04 10:55 AM
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Tales from the Topographic Ocean - YES
Relayer - Gates of Delerium - YES
Olias of Sunhillo - Jon Anderson
Lamb Lays Down on Broadway - PG & Genesis
Selling England by the Pound - "
Foxtrot - "
2112 - Rush
Dark Side & Animals both - PF
Kate Bush - Red Shoes
Kate Bush - Kick Inside
dems some

#511377 03/29/04 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BOOKUMDANO:
Ahh..the symphonic live dvd is incredible! The orchestra treatment of Gates of Delirium and others is just great. The surround mix is great, the video production is great. I just wish Rick had been with them on that tour three years ago.

The band was playing better than ever and all those nice young ladies from the orchestra is a joy to look at. I haven't missed Rick at all, the other keyboardplayer (Tom Brislin) did a great job and his sounds were a whole lot better than Rick's lately.

I've been to many YES concerts, last year in Rotterdam, Rick came up with a Korg Jupiter? and he sounded plain bad, thin and ugly. The piano sound was bad, the Hammond sound was even worse and there are no words to dicribe his Mellotron substitute. He should be ashamed.

Tom had (a.o)a Yamaha AN1X with his own patches and as you can hear in the Symphonic DVD, his sounds are okay. He also is a very good player and a dynamic person on stage.

YES is one of the greatest bands ever.


The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future.
#511378 03/29/04 02:36 PM
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Yeah it was "Fragile" that did it for me too.

As a young engineer at the time it was the production that caught my attention. It was a different sound to the Elton John/Beatles sound around at the time with lush rich low end.

Fragile was exactly that - fragile - the sounds were all top end orientated and the low end was hardly there, yet when put on the standard home stereo of the time with the speakers in opposite corners of the room and the bass and treble wound full bore and the loudness control on it sounded magnificient ;\)

That production style became very British IMO for quite some time. Trevor Horn epitomised it later on.

Very different from the warm smooth US sound, your best trademark IMO.

Hey,let's not forget the wonderful artwork ;\)

cheers
john

#511379 03/29/04 04:07 PM
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I sneared at Yes until a bass player friend of mine sat me down and forced me to listen to the live "YesSongs". When I found out that they could play that stuff live, that made a real difference to me, and I went back and checked out the rest of the catalog.

Bill


"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

Steve Martin

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

#511380 03/29/04 09:32 PM
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Hey, Genesis heads. I like 'Supper's Ready' too, but I don't think the studio version does it justice. Get the box set that has the entire Shrine Auditorium Lamb show. On one of the discs, there's a fantastic version of 'Supper's Ready', complete with one of Gabriel's weird, dry intro stories. Starts with, "Old Henry, walked past the pet shop". Great stuff!

The remaster of 'Seconds Out' is good too. There's a nice jam out of 'I Know What I Like'. Yeah, it's Phil on vocals, but the live band is smokin' at this point, and that's also got an excellent Supper's.

While we're on the classical rock subject, has anyone ever heard 'The Green Album' by Eddie Jobson/Zinc. It's got Gary Green from Gentle Giant on guitar, and I dig it. There's an excellent CD master on the One Way Records, CEMA Capitol Special Markets label. Check it out. Has lots of that phat Yamaha CS-80 synth, some vocoder on one track, and an acoustic piano solo too.

#511381 03/29/04 11:19 PM
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Steely Dan's "Gaucho"--in my opinion, this album is their masterpiece. FABULOUS sonics , more relaxed and hipper than "AJA", simultaneously lush and (in a way) stark, impeccably tracked, mixed and mastered, this album satisfies in much the same way as the very best coke did (back in those days). The price tag for this cd should have been $100.

#511382 03/30/04 12:55 AM
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Funny how taste can differ, I don't like SD at all.


The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future.
#511383 03/30/04 02:13 AM
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Hmm, I loved "Aja" but thought "Gaucho" was clinical as hell.

#511384 03/30/04 03:45 AM
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Quote:
In fact, I'm probably one of the few who even like Topographic Oceans..well, not side 3 very much.
oh, it is the best. Ritual and Revealing Science of God are my absolute favorites. It sounds as if they recorded it on another planet. Followed by Gates of Delirium and Close To The Edge. All phenomenal.

other stuff of this magnitude, if i had to pick a few:

Genesis: Lamb Lies Down On Broad way (album)
Genesis: Supper's Ready
Genesis: Eleventh Earl Of Mar
Mike Oldfield: Ommadawn
Dead Can Dance: Within The Realm Of Dying Sun
Tangerine Dream: Force Majeure


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#511385 03/30/04 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by garysjo:
Hmm, I loved "Aja" but thought "Gaucho" was clinical as hell.
Me too. Royal Scam is probably my fave, for that song and Kid Charlemagne.

Bill


"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

Steve Martin

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

#511386 03/30/04 04:43 AM
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The Royal Scam has long been my favorite. When they played 'The Caves of Altamira' at Universal Ampitheatre recently, I was very vocal in my approval of song selection, while some other people in the audience were saying, "Yeah, that song was alright I guess".

#511387 03/30/04 08:55 AM
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We shouldn't leave out ELP. Some great contributions to music history from them.

KT

#511388 03/30/04 09:16 AM
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hmmmm.... gonna get slammed for this i'm sure, but i seem to remember yes (and beatles) engineer geoff emerick saying that "close to the edge" was an edited nightmare. something like an edit every 2 bars on the multitrack.....

-d. gauss

#511389 03/30/04 04:55 PM
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No hmm or slamming needed...it's true that Yes' long pieces were and are recorded in sections with lots of edits. They don't write or record those twenty minute works in one stretch and that applies to the old Eddie Offord engineering days as well as now. I don't believe Geoff Emerick has ever been involved with the band.

There was a really good (long) article in R-E-P years ago about the making of the "Going For the One" album and the Yes recording process in general. It discussed how Yes songs ususally started with an idea like a two or three minute song by Jon on guitar (or sometimes Jon and Steve). They'd use that idea in a group meeting to discuss and chart out a basic section map for the arrangement. Then they'd record bass, drums, reference guitar, one song section at a time...not knowing for sure if each section would be used or how each section was going to seque in an out of the other sections ...which wouldn't be figured out until overdubbing was started. As a starting point, safeties were made of the tapes and then the sections would be roughly spliced together to create the overall basic track. Then overdubbing started with usually a first round of guitars for a week or so. Then a week or so of keyboard overdubbing. Final solos would be left until the arrangement structure was tested out and approved by everyone. As the arrangement and recording took shape, ideas would come up for arrangement changes or differing ideas on how to splice the sections. Some recorded parts would be dumped as sections were re-timed or spliced at different places...or newly thought up sections recorded and integrated into the overall piece.

In the case of "Awaken" on "Going For the One", an entire 7 minute (or whatever it is) section of glockenspiel/bell tree hits were put in the middle of the song (similar concept to what the Beatles did on Day In the Life when they recorded Mal counting to thirty (?) during the section of the song they hadn't yet figured out). This section was for Rick to fill in with some sort of keyboard part. The only new keyboard around at that point was the new Moog Polymoog which was used for a bit, but then the decision was made to record a pipe organ for the part. The only pipe organ avaiable where the band was in Switzerland was at some cathedral so they rigged up an elablorate phone line system to record the part at the cathedral and pipe the signal to the studio. When that section was completed, the band moved on to the next section. If you listen closely to that section of "Awaken", you can hear the glockenspiel/bell tree just sort of fade out as the splice for the next section takes over. I'm sure that with that kind of recording process, the splices became more frequent and more precise as any particular song really started to take shape.

I'm sure that Yes could have really made great use of Protools (or my vote Nuendo) back in the early days. All that physical splicing certainly must have been a nightmare.

When I read that R-E-P article years ago, I thought it would be real interesting for Yes to put out a book someday, detailing their recording process on various albums. I would find that as interesting to read as the great "Beatles Sessions" book.

#511390 03/30/04 05:05 PM
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Yeah - I read somewhere Jon Anderson saying that they would go and write and record snippets and themes, etc., and then edit them together into songs. THEN they would learn the songs on the records in order to play them live.

There's nothing wrong with that process IMO. And they have proven over and over that they can play it all note for note!

I remember listening to Close to the Edge on their first live album and wondering in advance what they were going to do with a big orchestral bit that was coming up. When I heard the big mellotron orchestra come in (I didn't know that anything like a mellotron existed) I was stunned! I was so impressed! I have been a Yes fan for a long time - some stuff I like better than others.

And to the DVD discussed earlier. I have enjoyed it alot!


- Calfee Jones
#511391 03/31/04 02:29 PM
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DANO - thanks for that insight. Very interesting read!

#511392 04/03/04 12:44 AM
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Yes has had some great material over the years, no matter how they went about the writing/recording process. But if you are looking for Prog Rock classics my votes are:

ELP "Brain Salad Surgery" (Tocatta and Karn Evil 9 are masterpieces)

ELP "Trilogy" (Incredibly under rated)

Genesis "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" (Takes many listenings, but well worth it.)

I have seen both bands perform most of these live, and they are even more dynamic than the studio versions.

Last but certainly not least, the perfect blend of rock and classical. ELP "Pictures at an Exibition" Live with the orchestra. Power, beauty, WOW! I saw it 3 nights in a row at Madison Square Garden and it left a lump in my throat every time.

Thanks for letting me put my 2 cents worth in.

Derry


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#511393 04/03/04 08:30 PM
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Quote:
hmmmm.... gonna get slammed for this i'm sure, but i seem to remember yes (and beatles) engineer geoff emerick saying that "close to the edge" was an edited nightmare. something like an edit every 2 bars on the multitrack.....
No reason to get slammed for pointing out something that's true...although most accounts I've read didn't say it was a "nightmare", just that the edit density was very very high. As I recall they had a whole bunch of little splices of tape all over the place that they'd keep rearranging and re-sequencing. Kind of funny that back in the day it was considered innovative, where today it's so heavily criticized when it's done in a computer. Maybe that's why...because it's so easy now...

-Duardo

#511394 04/03/04 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Duardo:
No reason to get slammed for pointing out something that's true...although most accounts I've read didn't say it was a "nightmare", just that the edit density was very very high. As I recall they had a whole bunch of little splices of tape all over the place that they'd keep rearranging and re-sequencing. Kind of funny that back in the day it was considered innovative, where today it's so heavily criticized when it's done in a computer. Maybe that's why...because it's so easy now...

-Duardo
I think it was far less criticized back then because they turned around and learned these arrangements and executed them flawlessly on stage. No one would dare call Yes' technical prowess into question. Nowadays, the editing happens when the players suck, so it's criticized, and even more so when the band goes out and slops their way through these songs that are already stupidly simple, so much that a 1st-year player could execute them.

#511395 04/05/04 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by natpub:
We shouldn't leave out ELP. Some great contributions to music history from them.

KT
Yeah, 'Tarkus' was completely awesome. I consider it their magnum opus.

#511396 04/05/04 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Derry:
...Genesis "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway"...

I have seen [both] bands perform most of these live, and they are even more dynamic than the studio versions......Last but certainly not least, the perfect blend of rock and classical. ELP "Pictures at an Exibition" Live with the orchestra. Power, beauty, WOW!....

Derry
Are you saying you saw the original tour of Lamb Lies Down, with PG singing? If so, that is a big wow...wish I had. PG had moved on by the time I showed up.

I also saw the ELP tour with the full orchestra and chior, that was truly stunning in all respects.

Still, I would have loved to have seen the Topographic Oceans tour. I worked with the chap who was their FOH engineer for that tour, and heard some great stories.

KT

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.........."Still, I would have loved to have seen the Topographic Oceans tour. I worked with the chap who was their FOH engineer for that tour, and heard some great stories........."

Ugh...imo, "Topographic" was the worst tour show out of the 15-16 Yes concerts I've seen over the years. People were actually walking out while I was there. The bad thing was that the band wasn't playing anything other than the four sides..except for the obligatory Roundabout encore. And if you know the album, there are some v-e-r-y long stretches of strange beatless passages..things that didn't translate well into a concert atmosphere. I'm glad I saw it, but wouldn't have recommended it for anyone.

I like sides 1-2-4 (not side 3)of Topographic but sitting through an entire concert of it was just too much. I agree with the decision the band later made to rearrange side 4 a little and to later put it into live shows every so often. The Side 4 piece actually sounds real cool on the Symphonic dvd concert.

I thought the band might be finished when I heard the Topographic concert, but luckily, things just got better and better for the later "Relayer" and "Going For the One" tours.

#511398 04/06/04 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by natpub:

Are you saying you saw the original tour of Lamb Lies Down, with PG singing? If so, that is a big wow...wish I had. PG had moved on by the time I showed up.

Yes, NatPub, I did see the "Lamb" tour with Gabriel. I was a first year student at Berklee College of Music and a friend at school had just turned me on to their music. They played a theatre concert in Boston. They did the entire 2 LP set straight down, and followed with "The Musical Box" as an encore.

Needless to say, it took me 3 days to drag my chin off the floor. One of the most memorable concerts I've ever attended.

Did I mention that also I saw the Beatles in '65 right after "Help" came out? I was 9 years old and my Dad, (God bless him), took me and my 2 older sisters to the old Met Stadium in Bloomington Minnesota. (Sorry, I just HAD to throw that in for bragging rights.)

Derry


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#511399 04/08/04 01:33 PM
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For me the surround mix of Fragile on DVD-Audio is the aural equivalent of parachute jumping while drunk! A lot of fun and a worthy replacement for my worn casette version. Prog really lends itself to 5.1. Can't stand Genesis though!

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Quote:
Originally posted by Snake Cained:
For me the surround mix of Fragile on DVD-Audio is the aural equivalent of parachute jumping while drunk!!
So it made you puke and whipped your face into all kinds of distorted shapes?

(ducking and running)

\:D \:D \:D \:D

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It's funny - I recently read a review where the guy said ELP were a sellout and lost their artistic credibility because they "didn't stick with their original material" but went on to cover classical stuff.... almost as if the guy didn't know that their very first effort was "Pictures at an Exhibition" at the Isle of Wight!

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Originally posted by philbo_Tangent:
Yeah, 'Tarkus' was completely awesome. I consider it their magnum opus.


I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist.

This ain't no track meet; this is football.
#511402 04/08/04 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by coyote:
almost as if the guy didn't know that their very first effort was "Pictures at an Exhibition" at the Isle of Wight!
what??? certainly wasn't their 1st studio effort by any means....that one was all originals, and great to boot....though Eddie Offord never could (or would) track a decent piano.

#511403 04/09/04 04:54 AM
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They did the entire 2 LP set straight down, and followed with "The Musical Box" as an encore...
Droooool....

my biggest prog moment was getting to sit in a small barroom for 2 hours a couple years back with Steve Howe and shoot the breeze. He had always been my guitar hero growing up, and it took me the whole first hour just to loosen up enough to speak, hahaha. One funny bit of trivia about him, he won't shake hands--at least not while on tour. Apparently he had some bad encounter with people shaking too hard and nearly injuring his hand :-) Took me a moment to register why he was refusing to shake my hand,lol.

KT

#511404 04/09/04 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by natpub:
...my biggest prog moment was getting to sit in a small barroom for 2 hours a couple years back with Steve Howe and shoot the breeze.

KT[/QB]
I worked for a production company back in the 70s when Yes made it big. Steve Howe was a very nice guy. He would show up at the venue at about 1 in the afternoon, close himself in the guitar room and practice until dinner, eat his veggy dinner and go play.

Just walking through the hallway outside of the guitar room was amazing, because he basically played non-stop. Killer stuff. What always threw me with his work is that, though I can see the influences of almost every guitar player that I like, he just seems to come from left field. Wonderful player.

Bill


"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

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Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

#511405 04/10/04 02:10 AM
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I worked for a production company back in the 70s when Yes made it big. Steve Howe was a very nice guy. He would show up at the venue at about 1 in the afternoon, close himself in the guitar room and practice until dinner, eat his veggy dinner and go play.

Just walking through the hallway outside of the guitar room was amazing, because he basically played non-stop. Killer stuff. What always threw me with his work is that, though I can see the influences of almost every guitar player that I like, he just seems to come from left field. Wonderful player.
Agreed, Bill.

He had that semi-sallow vegan-skintone. Though I admire his tenacity, I still love a steak. His guitar-tone, however, was far from sallow, but indeed had nearly every variety I could think of, though rarely heavy metal-ish, hahah.

When I was still a teen, he had won the Guitar Player magazing award for Best Guitarist so many times, they removed him to the Hall of Fame. It would not suprize me if he kept on winning to this day, had they let him.

That said, while I adore the quaintness of his solo-albums, he is not the best of singers=)

KT

#511406 04/10/04 03:12 AM
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Originally posted by natpub:
[QUOTE]my biggest prog moment was getting to sit in a small barroom for 2 hours a couple years back with Steve Howe and shoot the breeze.
For me it was seeing Todd Rundgren with Utopia back in about 1974. What a cool concert.


Lynn Fuston
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