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Quote:
Originally posted by 3D Audio:
I suspect that Mix was able to deciper Mixerman's hidden meaning and therefore is reticant to commit it to their pages.[/QB]
I remember somebody else throwing the same fit when Tape Op wouldn't print his article.

These issues have been argued to death and the only backwater on the net that still grinds this ax is Mixerman's forum, and I wish he'd just leave it there and stop pissing in everyone else's pool.

Anyway, this is just recpit spam.

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Quote:
Originally posted by malice:
PoPstaR,

This is not a rant over Protools, Digidesign, or even DAW in general. It's about credibility of Mix Magazine.

It's not because Mixerman does not enjoy working with this medium that his point is not perfectly valid.

IMHO

malice
You're wrong. It's the same old rant, and a tired one at that.

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Quote:
posted by Henchman:
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Curve Dominant:
[QUOTE]So David Cassidy hired you to mix another "comeback" record??
Yo, I can't WAIT to hear that!
Can I sit in on those sessions too??
PLEASE???
------------------------------------------------------------------------
What. You're jealous becasue david cassidy didn't ask you to bake mix him a cake?
Well...maybe David didn't ask me to bake him a cake because he knows I'm a sauté cook and I don't BAKE CAKES.

Speaking of food, I made the most amazing catfish and brown rice gumbo for dinner tonight. Email me if you want the recipé.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Mixerman:

Do you guys want to discuss this like men, or do you want to continue with the childish attack games? 'Cause my gloves are OFF if that's how you want to play it.

Mixerman[/QB]
Dude, it's the internet. Get over yourself.

-R

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Quote:
posted by mixerman:
'Cause my gloves are OFF if that's how you want to play it.
Well THAT explains why you're having problems with your PT system being bass-lite and all that:

It's the gloves!

Dood, you gotta take those gloves off before you operate that stuff.

Those PT systems have little knobs and buttons and whatnot, and you can't expect to accurately fine tune the settings if you're wearing GLOVES.

What the hell is a cartoon dog doing wearing gloves anyway??


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This is one of those Pro Tools threads that clearly differentiates the Pro's from the Tools. \:D


So Many Drummers. So Little Time...
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Hey! I resemble that remark.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Curve Dominant:
Quote:
posted by mixerman:
'Cause my gloves are OFF if that's how you want to play it.
Well THAT explains why you're having problems with your PT system being bass-lite and all that:

It's the gloves!

Dood, you gotta take those gloves off before you operate that stuff.

Those PT systems have little knobs and buttons and whatnot, and you can't expect to accurately fine tune the settings if you're wearing GLOVES.

What the hell is a cartoon dog doing wearing gloves anyway??
I think that, besides any bass problems or not, there are a myriad of problems with protools.... epecially the le systems which are emasculated- on purpose in many cases. There are so many unecessary limitations built into the software, that it is just obnoxious and almost infuriating to use on a day to day basis for any kind of professional business. I use it, but it is a thorn in my side.

And an even bigger issue than this particular occurence, is the disturbing trend of corporations with mega advertising dollars, who pander to the lowest common denominator.... They have the money to push around....and unfortunately, people that are ignorant of the "real deal" audio gear are easily fooled by the hype...

Is protools better than stuff like ADAT or tascam 1 inch reels...IMO, yes. But it is a far far cry from ideal, and it does not make my life any easier. In fact it is a constant challenge to inspire the people I record to actually PERFORM, when they are stuck on the fix it in the mix mentality that digidesign seems to inspire.


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Quote:
posted by GToledo:
I think that, besides any bass problems or not, there are a myriad of problems with protools.... epecially the le systems which are emasculated- on purpose in many cases. There are so many unecessary limitations built into the software, that it is just obnoxious and almost infuriating to use on a day to day basis for any kind of professional business. I use it, but it is a thorn in my side.
YES! That's all true.

PTLE is a thorn in my side too. The fact that this system merely allows me to record, mix, and edit 24 tracks of 24 bit audio is pure heresy.

One of my vocalists had to take the train to my studio to record...can you imagine that? My PTLE system couldn't go to her house and pick her up and transport her here! I should sue Digidesign! And I might.

Last night we were recording and we got hungry...the PTLE system didn't even OFFER to cook us dinner, or even order out Chinese for us! CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT??

Then after the session was over, we all went out for drinks...and when the bartab came, PTLE didn't even contribute to the bill! Not even a little HAND MOTION towards it to indicate it MIGHT want to pick up the tab. THE GALL!

Understand this: I am only using Pro Tools because I am being FORCED to use it. I've got a gun to my head. Literally! Look, right here: there's a gun, at my head.

Life is hell. Truly.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Gtoledo3:
[QUOTE]...and it does not make my life any easier. In fact it is a constant challenge to inspire the people I record to actually PERFORM, when they are stuck on the fix it in the mix mentality that digidesign seems to inspire.
You know, you're right about that. One of the worst aspects of this new way of working (popularized but certainly not limited to ProTools) is that producers seem to have no sense of restraint when it comes to how many tracks they are bringing to the mix. Oh, how sweet the old days, when you knew it would be a maximum of 24 tracks...then it went to 45-46 tracks...then with the 3348, you'd get a full 48 tracks, and even with ADAT, it was usually held to 48 tracks, but with this damn DAW world, everyone just lets it all hang out...and then they'll hand it off to the mix engineer (with the tracks in total disarray, no less) and expect that the mix engineer will "make it all better". That does suck...

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Quote:
Originally posted by Curve Dominant:
Quote:
posted by GToledo:
I think that, besides any bass problems or not, there are a myriad of problems with protools.... epecially the le systems which are emasculated- on purpose in many cases. There are so many unecessary limitations built into the software, that it is just obnoxious and almost infuriating to use on a day to day basis for any kind of professional business. I use it, but it is a thorn in my side.
YES! That's all true.

PTLE is a thorn in my side too. The fact that this system merely allows me to record, mix, and edit 24 tracks of 24 bit audio is pure heresy.

One of my vocalists had to take the train to my studio to record...can you imagine that? My PTLE system couldn't go to her house and pick her up and transport her here! I should sue Digidesign! And I might.

Last night we were recording and we got hungry...the PTLE system didn't even OFFER to cook us dinner, or even order out Chinese for us! CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT??

Then after the session was over, we all went out for drinks...and when the bartab came, PTLE didn't even contribute to the bill! Not even a little HAND MOTION towards it to indicate it MIGHT want to pick up the tab. THE GALL!

Understand this: I am only using Pro Tools because I am being FORCED to use it. I've got a gun to my head. Literally! Look, right here: there's a gun, at my head.

Life is hell. Truly.
Ok, Curve. Even though you do not respond to me in any kind of reasonable way....

Monitoring in a digi 001 system is horrible. You can only monitor channels 3&4 off of the input... I understand that for your uses, where everything is an overdub, 1 track at a time, this probably doesn't even sound like a limitation...

Second, the sync setup is horrible. If you want true sync, look elsewhere. This is of particular importance to me, because I have many people bring in their home portastudio thingees, who want to run sync... and then try doing ANTHING with video...c'mon, it is a nightmare. Oh, or try synching up a tape machine... good luck.

The midi implementation is still horrendously limited... kind of curious given how LONG midi has been around.

Look, this is just basic stuff....

Digidesign is not that great of a software/hardware company, but they are SUPERB marketers... I will give them that.

Really, IMO, mix bus is just ONE of a myriad of problems.


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An upgrade might just do the trick...


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Mixerman,
I feel your pain, 'cause here we are, trying to find truth, as in what equipment will help us create good stuff, at a competitive price, but the truth is squashed by the big guy with an iron fist. It reminds me of another big guy whose name I won't mention, but their initials are MS.

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I love the smell of vitirol in the morning. I love the sight of vitiolic expression even more.

You guys kill me!

Tick...tick...tick...

What's that ticking sound?

Tick...tick...tick...

That's strange.

Tick...tick...tick...

Mixerman

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Hmm, maybe I'm wrong, but what I see here is a problem that could be rectified by the mag.

The reason that you may find totally contradictory statements ("retractions" if you will) is that too many reporters become "lazy" and do not work hard to gain a true understanding of the underlying issues, thus, they merely "parrot" the company's marketing dept's hype, and then go off and have a beer or bop their girl.

Naturally, *every* marketing dept exagerates the facts and makes claims that their product is the "greatest thing since sliced bread" while making digs and taking sometimes subtle and sometimes blatant potshots at competitiors.

The cure to this problem is having better editors or more editorial oversight so the editors will stand on the reporters and make them learn the tech, inside and out. In fact, at a minimum, they should be barred from writing unless they have actually used a product. The reporters should also be required to call un-biased experts and even the competition to get their take on the product. Although many of you could undoubtedly come up with superior ideas for improvements, doing these sorts of reforms will result in a less biased article and more intellectual integrity. Parroting the marketing dept's hype and spreding more disinformation must be stomped out.

Next, as some have pointed out, it would be refreshing to see a magazine with enough integrity to trash or pan one of their major advertiser's products. They rarely even state that a product has become "stale" or "dated," let alone, say it really "sucks." Thus, someone making a major, or even a minor, product purchasing decision has little confidence in relying on most mags. According to them, every product advertised is wonderful, so you must buy it as soon as possible. Again, the "intellectual intregity" to be able to run down a major advertiser's product is often sorely missing.

There is certainly room for most mags to improve themsleves. YMMV.

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Quote:
posted by mixerman:
What's that ticking sound?
That's your watch telling you it's time for your medication.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Kris:
An upgrade might just do the trick...
It would solve some problems, but there are still many problems right in the software. I spoke of the digi 001/LE systems, b/c my comments were in response to Curve.


Want mix/tracking feedback? Checkout "The Fade"-
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Quote:
Originally posted by Curve Dominant:
Quote:
posted by mixerman:
What's that ticking sound?
That's your watch telling you it's time for your medication.
No, silly, it's the timer for the cake you put in the oven. ;\)


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Man, there are a TON of f'en whiners around here.

No offense to Mixerman, but pro audio magazines have NEVER been objective. With very few exceptions, they are about selling ads, period. Why would you expect them to bite the hand that feeds them?

Now, you might argue that the neophyte might not know that... and educating him/her is a good thing, and I agree.

However, your point gets buried in a pile of preconcieved notions and "analog vs. digital" and summing buss BS.

Free advice to MM... it's worth what you pay for it... you have said a lot about PT already which most of us have already read. Instead, if your point REALLY is about Mix mag's lack of objectivity, use other examples. I see them all the time, they're not hard to find.


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psalad. yes, magazines are objective, But to have someone do a review, and the have a magazine prin a retraction because of obvious pressure from Digi is another issue altogether.


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Ok, but how would you go about making the mag better? On the last page I made a few suggestions, what can be added by other folks?

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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny B:
Ok, but how would you go about making the mag better? On the last page I made a few suggestions, what can be added by other folks?
You need to change the paradigm. If a magazine depends on selling advertising to make money, then IMO it's damn near impossible to keep the editorial and the advertising separate.

Tape Op works because right from the start you knew what you were getting if you are an advertiser. With Mix, EM, whatever, it seems as if they have a policy of appeasing advertisers, period.

Don't expect change.

That's what the internet is for.. forums like this are where you can get unbiased information. I like to read magazines, but reviews are generally helpful only as they discuss features and applications, not where they actually evaluate a product.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Mixerman:
You guys kill me!

Tick...tick...tick...

What's that ticking sound?

Tick...tick...tick...

That's strange.

Tick...tick...tick...

Mixerman
I think it's the sound of the BIG countdown...the one we've all been waiting for...the one no musician, engineer or producer is going to want to miss out on...it's the...

....it's the...

....it's the...

....drumroll, please....

....it's the....

Mixerman "Let's Send Files to Each Other Around the World" Club

That's right, folks...due to Mixerman's very advanced intelligence and his mastery of the Internet(!), we can now all work on songs together...me in Slovakia, you in Bombay, and our friends in Tucumcari, the Barossa and Tierra Del Fuego. (Thanks to ProTools and the Digistudio connect, it's all possible, you know). Hey, I need bagpipes on my song...Mixerman, can you hook me up with one of your recpit geniuses in Dublin? In turn, I'd offer to add belching effects to the leprachaun's track.

That's right, Ladies And Gents, our esteemed associate, Mixerman, is going to help you find your musical soul mates around the globe. Mind you, you're not likely to meet Pavarotti or nothing. Instead, you'll be hooked up with one of those uh..."up and coming" denizons of Eric's own recpit. Think of it. You can get your files mangled by "Z"-boy, "Mal"-practice, "Price"-less and maybe even "Aard"-Sync. Wow! Doesn't that sound enticing?

People, this is BIG. It's going to change everything. Your whole musical being will NEVER be the same.

Oh, and tax and shipping not included. The first 25 participants will receive a full set of Ginzu knife plug-ins absolutely free. Act now and we'll even throw in Mixerman's upcoming book "How ProTools has improved my bottom line And my bottom end".

Anyway, I think that's what the ticking is all about...if not, my bad, MM.

poPSTar

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Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
psalad. yes, magazines are objective, But to have someone do a review, and the have a magazine prin a retraction because of obvious pressure from Digi is another issue altogether.
Magazines aren't objective. They reflect the bias and filtering of the publisher. Just like Mixerman's forum, for instance. I posted a long piece of thinking about this very issue on his forum and he pulled it, called me a spammer and invited me to go elsewhere. Of course, none of the people in his forum could read it and decide for themselves. My followup comments were also eliminated, along with some pretty funny jokes. (But of course, only the humourless Mixerman is allowed to be funny in his own forum.) I dunno, I guess i've been banned, but without him actually having the balls to say so.

Big whoop.

This isn't about Mix being pressured by Digi. This is about Mixerman not getting his letter published. Hey, I write letters to the L.A. Times all the time, and once in a while get something on the op-ed pages, but I don't stamp my feet when I don't. But one thing worth noting, is that they require a legitimate name and address for their letter submissions. I guess they expect there to be a real person with guts enough to stand up for the opinion in public.

Ultimately, I suspect that Mix realizes that all this rabble rousing is just a publicity stunt to generate interest in some upcoming Mixerman product.. Just like that ridiculous -6db@50k non-issue. It's viral marketing, folks, and we're all part of it.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.....

-R

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Quote:
Originally posted by popstar:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mixerman:
[qb]You guys kill me!

Anyway, I think that's what the ticking is all about...if not, my bad, MM.

poPSTar
Nope. That's not it.

Oh, well yeah, I am starting a new online place. And you will be able to network with musicians around the world, making your studio even more obsolete. But that's not what the ticking is about.

It's funny how your cousin Curve, the guy with the same last name as you, who has had access to your account for the past year-and-a-half always speaks of my obsolescence. What he doesn't understand is, I can't become obsolete. I understand music, production, arrangement, artists and how to make a good recording. I realize that I don't corner the market on these skills. Far from it. That's not the point of such a statement. The point is, those skills will always have a value. Unlike your digital gear.

Take your studio for instance. It seems you invested in the wrong gear. Euphonix? You should have called me, Bub. I would have told you to keep the 8068. Even the SSL was better than those pieces of garbage. Certainly you know by now that that was an error in judgement. Your studio remains empty most days.

Unfortunately, your lack of people skills forced you into the studio business. There's nothing wrong with being in the studio business per se, but you couldn't really make it in engineering and producing, that's why you got into that. It's not like it was your first choice. Shall I go into specific stories about your lack of people skills? I'll be happy to. It'd be my pleasure, actually.

Anyway, I digress. Yes, there will be a new forum. And I will be selling a book. I'm kind of proud of the fact that I'm selling a book. You should try to write one some day. It's very rewarding.

Mixerman

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Quote:
Originally posted by RKrizman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
psalad. yes, magazines are objective, But to have someone do a review, and the have a magazine prin a retraction because of obvious pressure from Digi is another issue altogether.
Magazines aren't objective. They reflect the bias and filtering of the publisher. Just like Mixerman's forum, for instance. I posted a long piece of thinking about this very issue on his forum and he pulled it, called me a spammer and invited me to go elsewhere. Of course, none of the people in his forum could read it and decide for themselves. My followup comments were also eliminated, along with some pretty funny jokes. (But of course, only the humourless Mixerman is allowed to be funny in his own forum.) I dunno, I guess i've been banned, but without him actually having the balls to say so.

Big whoop.

This isn't about Mix being pressured by Digi. This is about Mixerman not getting his letter published. Hey, I write letters to the L.A. Times all the time, and once in a while get something on the op-ed pages, but I don't stamp my feet when I don't. But one thing worth noting, is that they require a legitimate name and address for their letter submissions. I guess they expect there to be a real person with guts enough to stand up for the opinion in public.

Ultimately, I suspect that Mix realizes that all this rabble rousing is just a publicity stunt to generate interest in some upcoming Mixerman product.. Just like that ridiculous -6db@50k non-issue. It's viral marketing, folks, and we're all part of it.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.....

-R
Ha! Like I actually care whether the letter was published? Why would I care about that? I can reach more people on the internet than buried in the letters of Mixihad magazine.

It's people like you that HELP me reach more people on the internet. You attack, and make the subject more interesting. I don't mind telling you this, because you can't help yourself. You have no willpower.

As for the removing of posts. I found your post to be pure unadulterated spam. It's generally pretty rare for me to remove posts, but spam, goes. If it wasn't spam, well it sure as hell looked like it. even if a post merely has the APPEARANCE of spam, I have an obligation to remove it. But like I told you on my forum, it's a big internet. You can post that crap anywhere you like. I'm sure people will read it.

I suppose it's just not enough people for you to bother.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

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Quote:
Tick...tick...tick...

No, that ticking has nothing to do with me. It has to do with something else.
probably the sound of that kick drum he x-ferred into protools after it lost all the low end :p ;\) \:D


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Quote:
Originally posted by Mixerman:
[QUOTE]

Oh, well yeah, I am starting a new online place. And you will be able to network with musicians around the world, making your studio even more obsolete. But that's not what the ticking is about.

Mixerman
Eric, Eric, Eric,

It is SO rewarding to see you all worked up again. I just love it when you truly have no idea what you're talking about and you go on to say all the hilarious things that you do. It is SO funny, and someday, over drinks, I'll tell you the whole story and even you will have a good laugh at your own expense. Oh, how sweet our exchanges!

So, let's see...you're going into a very "unique" new venture. What, a new place where people can exchange files? Hey, now that's cool. You know, you might think about expanding the idea to allow us to send letters to each other over the net (kind of like mail, but without the paper and where it just appears on our computer) or even having live conversations with each other (kind of like telephone calls but without the sound, all taking place in a floating window on our computers). Your idea is very, uh, interesting. Given that Digi started Digistudio roughly, what 2-3 years ago, it's not the most novel of ideas, but you know what? Because I'm terribly in favor on entrepenuerial undertakings, I'm going to wish you the absolute best with it. May you have many successes in life.

your good bud,

POPstar

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Quote:
Originally posted by popstar:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mixerman:
[QUOTE]

Oh, well yeah, I am starting a new online place. And you will be able to network with musicians around the world, making your studio even more obsolete. But that's not what the ticking is about.

Mixerman
Eric, Eric, Eric,

It is SO rewarding to see you all worked up again. I just love it when you truly have no idea what you're talking about and you go on to say all the hilarious things that you do. It is SO funny, and someday, over drinks, I'll tell you the whole story and even you will have a good laugh at your own expense. Oh, how sweet our exchanges!

So, let's see...you're going into a very "unique" new venture. What, a new place where people can exchange files? Hey, now that's cool. You know, you might think about expanding the idea to allow us to send letters to each other over the net (kind of like mail, but without the paper and where it just appears on our computer) or even having live conversations with each other (kind of like telephone calls but without the sound, all taking place in a floating window on our computers). Your idea is very, uh, interesting. Given that Digi started Digistudio roughly, what 2-3 years ago, it's not the most novel of ideas, but you know what? Because I'm terribly in favor on entrepenuerial undertakings, I'm going to wish you the absolute best with it. May you have many successes in life.

your good bud,

POPstar
Bif, Bif, Bif,

Here's to hoping Front Page doesn't go under.

It would be a shame.

Oh, I'm not worked up. I haven't even gotten a lather up yet. But you might want to check your PM's.

More to come...

Mixerman

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 751
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Gold Member
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Gold Member
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 751
Quote:
Originally posted by Mixerman:
[QUOTE]Bif, Bif, Bif,

Here's to hoping Front Page doesn't go under.

It would be a shame.

Mixerman
Eric,

It is so comforting to know that you are concerned about Front Page. Yes, I, too, feel that it would be a shame for the industry to lose any of our studios. However, studios around the world are feeling pressure, and I think we all acknowledge that some studios will surely face closure. On the other hand, as the saying goes, "one door closes and another opens", so I sleep well at night.

I can't help but notice that independent engineers are having some tough times, as well. I think that it's good that you are turning to writing and "networking" ideas to keep things going. I think it's also a plus that you have your own forum, because that keeps you involved in the industry at some level. It's a challenging business over the long term in nearly every job category. Hey, let's be happy that we don't work for a major label...they're having even tougher times than guys like you and I because they are 'working for the man', thus, what the man says, goes. At least you and I are in charge of our own destiny.

Thanks again for your kind words. Let's keep in touch!

poPStAR

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