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Quote:
Originally posted by popstar:
Quote:
Originally posted by Confusionator:
No offense, guys, but this topic would be better served if someone would actually answer the question.

Name some totally in-box mixes that enough of us would be familiar with. If there are no such beasts, then we can all draw our own conclusions, and it will come down to one of only two choices: either every good engineer is thinking in an old-fashioned way or PT isn't up to snuff.
The Confusionator is right...even though it is possible to get a great mix within PT, the original question was which ones were done in that way. To get a real answer to that question, we should simply ask the better known Mastering Engineers...they are the ones who actually know which formats were used on which records. The last time I spoke with Stephen Marcussen, he mentioned that he was already getting a fair amount of mixes which were done in PT. (Sorry, I didn't ask which ones).

POPsTar
In many cases asking the mastering engineer will only determine what format the mix was delevered on. This does not mean the mix was done "in the box".

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Quote:
Originally posted by Allan Speers:
There is one problem with that, which I have mentioed elswhere:

In the past year I have talked to three extremely well-known mix engineers who basicaly all said the same thing: Much of their recent work was mixed in the box, (primarily PT) of course using some choice analog outboard. They do this for several reasons, only one of which is the belief that the sound can be equal or superior.

However, each of these engineers said that they don't want this to be widely known (and would not tell me which specific tracks they were alluding to.) The reason is that there is currently such a prejudice in our industry against ITB mixes, that they don't want people knowing that they didn't use an SSL. I'm not making this up.

What a strange time we live in.
I imiagine that these people do exist; getting great mixes, but afraid of the stigma.

I have been able to imagine another reason that SOME engineers might not want it to be common knowledge (if true):

That is rate. Rates WILL go down further than they have when the customer knows that the mixer did not have to have upwards of $1mil invested.

I do think this will happen. But along with a kick ass control surface will have to come better compressors and complete PDC.

In the mean time I would like to see PDC for going out of the box to outboard and back.

Yeah, I know the downside; lost auto, further DAC/ADC etc., until we get more horsepower and creative people who can make the plugs interact like chains of analog devices do as loads vary...

I believe this will happen. A year ago I would never have considered another DAC/ADC trip. But good/great converters at a (somewhat) afordable price seem to be here now. Time marches on...

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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike O:
[QUOTE]
That is rate. Rates WILL go down further than they have when the customer knows that the mixer did not have to have upwards of $1mil invested.

I do think this will happen. But along with a kick ass control surface will have to come better compressors and complete PDC.

In the mean time I would like to see PDC for going out of the box to outboard and back.
Yes, you are spot on Mike. The next step in our industry will be mixing within the box on the next generation of hardware controllers, using a combination of inboard plugs and outboard equipment. Should be interesting...

popstAR

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Your pretty optomistic to think that we are going to get it all in the next generation. I hope you are right.

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"doing it since 1967?"

Sex of course, he's been getting some since then, but he's tired now because that's a long time to keep it up. (sorry, could not resist that one \:\)
But she was hot, I saw the pic on another thread.

Seriously, I think he meant he's been doing pro sound related activities since 1967. Recording, Mixing, Building Studios...that kind of thing. And if he has been doing it since 1967, it means he has a lot of experience, and we should all respect that. The man has paid his dues!

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Quote:
posted by Dave Reitzas:
I mixed Barbra Streisand's last album, "The Movie Album", entirely in the box...and no control surface....You may hate it or you may love it. In fact, I'm sure some of you already hate it just because it's Barbra.
Hate Barbra Streisand?? You're kidding, right? Girl's one of the hottest vocalists in the history of the planet Earth.

Anyone who "hates" Barbra Streisand deserves a hard slap upside the head, quickly.

Dave, is Cole Porter's "You're The Top" from the movie "What's Up Doc?" on that record? My girlfriend and I are huge fans of that film, and of her rendition of that song. Wow. Amazing.

"Hate" Barbra? Tell me who, and I will kill them.


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And what about native?
Is there any album (or track) entirely mixed in the box, like LAP, DP or Nuendo, now that CPUs are very very powerful?
And is there anyone able here to hear the difference between native and TDM plugs of the same model (like waves that has native and TDM version of the same plug)? Is there another TRON?

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Barbara Streisand?
Mixed in the box?
Which box?
Very intresting, i will listen to it and return here for a comment, i know very good the sound of her past albums.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Curve Dominant:
Anyone who "hates" Barbra Streisand deserves a hard slap upside the head, quickly.
By a Barbra lover? How convenient. \:D


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Cheked.
I feel your skill and talend, it's a masterwork, but compared to earlier albums, it's thinner.

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until plugs do what great outbaord does it's not gonna happen.

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Quote:
Originally posted by 1970:
Barbara Streisand?
Mixed in the box?
Which box?
Very intresting, i will listen to it and return here for a comment, i know very good the sound of her past albums.
Apologies all, I just can't resist this. At 9.15 am 1970 posts as above. Then edits the post at 9.18 am. Then...

Quote:
Originally posted by 1970:
Cheked.
I feel your skill and talend, it's a masterwork, but compared to earlier albums, it's thinner.
The second post is at 9.29 am. In 11 minutes of listening Dave Reitzas mix has been declared a masterwork but is "thinner" than Streisand's previous cds!

It's good to know there is a place the pros can come to to have their work comprehensively assessed \:\)

cheers,
Ruairi

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Quote:
Originally posted by innesireinar:
And what about native?
Is there any album (or track) entirely mixed in the box, like LAP, DP or Nuendo, now that CPUs are very very powerful?
And is there anyone able here to hear the difference between native and TDM plugs of the same model (like waves that has native and TDM version of the same plug)? Is there another TRON?
How about Sinead O'Connor's latest (last?) mixed in-the-box in Logic, on a PC.

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This is an interesting thread...but you guys seem to be missing something. if you're going to comment on Dave's mix of Babs new album and try to make a judgement of the platform, you'd better be sure that every one of albums/singles, etc. that Dave has ever mixed all sound the same until this PT mix.

I wish we all could be so consistant that our performance is only affected by the platform we're mixing with.

If that were the case when we'd go to mastering we could just say, "Okay, bring up my Record Plant settings." Saying Dave's effort sounds thinner (assuming that's actually true...) may have something to do with the platform....but it's hardly a real test. He probably had different monitors, mixing in a different room, maybe a different mixdown media...etc, etc. Anyone of which may make an album sound different. Not to mention the other aspects...arrangement, the recording, and the choices of the artist herself.

I'm not saying this stuff doesn't matter. Everything matters! But we gotta remember this isn't some sort of scientific test. We're comapring apples and oranges here. It's anecdotal at best.


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DAS,

as per my post above, 1970's 'thinner' judgment was hardly reached by extensive listening,

cheers,
Ruairi

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Quote:
Originally posted by mattwine00:
until plugs do what great outbaord does it's not gonna happen.
Depends on your definition of "mixing in the box". My definition of that is simply that all automation and master summing is accomplished in the box. Even if you ended up sending every single channel out to outboard eq, as long as all of the automation and master summing were accomplished, I'd consider it mixed "in the box".

popsTaR

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Agreed Ruairi,

Not to overlook your comment...just adding my own. Thanks for noting how quickly the two posts had occurred.


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Quote:
Originally posted by popstar:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mattwine00:
[qb]until plugs do what great outbaord doencvotoo 0 eDAFBI 5{mming were accomplished, I'd consider it mixed "in the box".

popsTaR
That's the way I have always looked at Pro Tools. It's a giant recorder and mixer that I can do anything I want with. Including sending it out to a Neve or a cool compressor. For the record, it's better just to record it in that way in the first place.

Steve

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Quote:
Originally posted by DAS:
....Everything matters! .
There are so many other areas in recording, mixing and mastering that can adversely effect the outcome of a song. Anything from drum heads to patch cords can alter the final outcome of a mix. Even with all things being the finest from a technical standpoint ,(and that too is totally subjective) my mood of the day can have more of an impact to the mix than any other component in the chain. With mixing there can be 1000's of tiny decisions all needing to align just right. Which reverb, which EQ, what settings, compression, delays, levels? So many parameters, not to mention the combining of the preferences of the decision makers.
With all that said, it's too easy to just blame or credit one area of the technical element as the basis for why something sounds good or bad to someone.
For me, the bottom line is using whatever tools are available to meet the creative and budgetary needs of the people that are hiring me. I will always do the best job that I can do with the tools that are available to me at that time.
More later.

Dave
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"Sounds thinner to me."

I wonder if Mr. Reitzas could give us 2 CD choices, one he mixed in the box, one not, keep the info to himself. Apples and Oranges? Maybe. Give interested parties a week to check them out. Have a straw vote. At the end of the Reitzas shootout, we could either band the phrase "sounds thinner to me" or have tee shirts made up with the proclamation.

Just a thought.

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Has anyone here heard of the DAW sum test? It basically was a bunch of blind tests trying out different summing methods of a mix using analog consoles and DAWs. It was a scientific test done by AES memebers. Apparently, most of the favored mixes were DAW summed mixes. Only one SSL mix was prefered.

There is a CD available of the test for anyone to purchase and see for yourself. Unfortunately, I don't have the link.

Food for thought.

Nathan


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Quote:
Originally posted by Ruairi O'Flaherty:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1970:
Barbara Streisand?
Mixed in the box?
Which box?
Very intresting, i will listen to it and return here for a comment, i know very good the sound of her past albums.
Apologies all, I just can't resist this. At 9.15 am 1970 posts as above. Then edits the post at 9.18 am. Then...

Quote:
Originally posted by 1970:
Cheked.
I feel your skill and talend, it's a masterwork, but compared to earlier albums, it's thinner.
The second post is at 9.29 am. In 11 minutes of listening Dave Reitzas mix has been declared a masterwork but is "thinner" than Streisand's previous cds!

It's good to know there is a place the pros can come to to have their work comprehensively assessed \:\)

cheers,
Ruairi
Hmmm...used to be a fella inclined to such antics 'round these parts. Went by the handle of "TRON". Hmmm...


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Quote:
Originally posted by tuchel:


I wonder if Mr. Reitzas could give us 2 CD choices, one he mixed in the box, one not, keep the info to himself. Apples and Oranges? Maybe. Give interested parties a week to check them out. Have a straw vote. At the end of the Reitzas shootout, we could either band the phrase "sounds thinner to me" or have tee shirts made up with the proclamation.

Just a thought. /QB]
Apples and oranges yes. The only way to compare fairly is to use the same material with identical levels and panning for each format tested. There are too many other differences that would make any true comparison skewed . For example, I mixed Luis Miguel's album "33" just after Barbra's record through an SSL 9000. Some may prefer one albums sound over the other, but it definitely has absolutely nothing to do with the format.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1970:
[QB]Cheked.
I feel your skill and talend, it's a masterwork, but compared to earlier albums, it's thinner.
Yes, she did lose a little weight since the last album and it is a little thinner than it used to be.

Dave
http://www.reitzas.com

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Quote:
Originally posted by Reitzas:
[QUOTE]Yes, she did lose a little weight since the last album and it is a little thinner than it used to be.

Dave
http://www.reitzas.com
ROF,L!!!


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Quote:
Originally posted by Ruairi O'Flaherty:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1970:
Barbara Streisand?
Mixed in the box?
Which box?
Very intresting, i will listen to it and return here for a comment, i know very good the sound of her past albums.
Apologies all, I just can't resist this. At 9.15 am 1970 posts as above. Then edits the post at 9.18 am. Then...

Quote:
Originally posted by 1970:
Cheked.
I feel your skill and talend, it's a masterwork, but compared to earlier albums, it's thinner.
The second post is at 9.29 am. In 11 minutes of listening Dave Reitzas mix has been declared a masterwork but is "thinner" than Streisand's previous cds!

It's good to know there is a place the pros can come to to have their work comprehensively assessed \:\)

cheers,
Ruairi
Severely busted...lol!!!And on the serious side I would think you should be fairly embarrased.You've got to admit to compare it to ONE other cd 11 mins isn't much time,but you said earlier albums (the albums being plural).....give me a break.Thanks for trying but....next!
Chris

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Quote:
Originally posted by Ruairi O'Flaherty:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1970:
Barbara Streisand?
Mixed in the box?
Which box?
Very intresting, i will listen to it and return here for a comment, i know very good the sound of her past albums.
Apologies all, I just can't resist this. At 9.15 am 1970 posts as above. Then edits the post at 9.18 am. Then...

Quote:
Originally posted by 1970:
Cheked.
I feel your skill and talend, it's a masterwork, but compared to earlier albums, it's thinner.
The second post is at 9.29 am. In 11 minutes of listening Dave Reitzas mix has been declared a masterwork but is "thinner" than Streisand's previous cds!

It's good to know there is a place the pros can come to to have their work comprehensively assessed \:\)

cheers,
Ruairi
I went to iTunes music store and listened to dozens of pieces of Barbara Streisand, i know AAC is not WAV, but the COMPARISON is fair and listened to Genelec 1032A

A good ear doesn't need 2 hours listening, just some seconds and the verdict is done, isn't it?

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Why every time somehing right is said, you thiink it's me?


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Quote:
Originally posted by Doug Osborne:
How about Sinead O'Connor's latest (last?) mixed in-the-box in Logic, on a PC.[/QB]
What's the name of this track?
I would to check how it sounds.

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From 1970:

Quote:
went to iTunes music store and listened to dozens of pieces of Barbara Streisand, i know AAC is not WAV, but the COMPARISON is fair and listened to Genelec 1032A
Now who can argue with that??? (cough, couch...ahem!)


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The question was never whether you liked it or not, 1970. It's whether Barbra liked it and was willing to pay
David several tens of thousands of dollars to make it for her.

Steve

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