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Please don't think for one minute I'm advocating any claims in this article :-)

I came across it on another website and thought it may have some entertainment value...

Tried a search and couldn't find it here, forgive me if it's been posted before.

http://www.diamondcenter.net/digitalstress.html

Regards,
Justin

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Isn't this the same basic topic as this thread from back in August:

"Digital audio and society\'s evils according to Rupert Neve "

Which you started. \:D


miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

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Kinesiology? Give me break.

Oh, and you can buy his "Life Energy Plus" product and "alleviate many of the effects of PCM – it still doesn’t sound like music nor fully act like it, but this formulation does overcome what in the recording industry is now called "digital fatigue." "

Bullsh*t! Just another example of the snake oil being sold as healing music.

Jeff

BTW: Read that other thread. I said then and I say now that we've tested both analog and digital recording and seen no difference in efficacy.

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The problem is not digital recording, but bad mixing architecture and dynamic squashing

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Quote:
Originally posted by miroslav:
Isn't this the same basic topic as this thread from back in August:

"Digital audio and society\'s evils according to Rupert Neve "

Which you started. \:D
Do forgive me, I just felt that this kind of crap is better off debunked in the public domain than passed around between the gullible in private.

Justin

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I had the pleasure of attending Syn-Aud-Con with Don Davis many years ago just at the dawn of digital.

Just throwing this tid-bit out as food-for-thought, but we repeated and an experiment originally done by the AES where a listener was played a piece of music (it was an orchestral piece) in a blind listening test. The listener wasn't told what the test was about or what they were listening to. The first time the piece was played, it was played from an analog master (full analog recording). After the test, the listener was instructed to hold out their arms to the side. An assistant then tried to press down on the listener's arms. In every case, the listener was easily able to keep their arms extended by resisting the downward pressure.

The listener was then played the same piece of music from a digital master and the test was repeated (again, the listener had no idea if the music was analog or digital, or even what was trying to be proved). Without fail, the listeners could not hold their arms up after listening to the digital piece.

The theory was that the jagged nature of the digital "wave form" have an adverse affect on the human nervous system. I'm not sure if these tests were ever expounded upon or the theories proven, but I did witness it first-hand and thought it very intriguing at the time.

FWIW - YMMV


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I'm stunned that anyone considered this test you did legitimate.

Did anyone look at an oscilloscope or an FFT and determine what the waveform really looks like, or did you all run under the notion that digital audio is composed of little stairstep waves?

Remarkable.

Nika.

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I agree. there are way too many variables, and ways to make mistakes.

Hey, what would be the result of listening to an analog recording of a cd? How about an analog recording of an elementary-school orchestra? Yougottsbekiddinme....

I love the "snake oil" all-encompassing out this guy has at the end:

quote: "Note that after a certain period of exposure to the digital signal, the subject will be so reversed that there will be a paradoxical false pseudo-positive response. This can totally invalidate the results of the untrained tester."

Yep. gotta' watch out for them there false pseudo-positives!

Did you know that if you buy FOUR bottles of this guy's "life force" and rest your AD converter on top of them, it will reduce jitter?

This definitely makes my list of top-ten worst scams ever thrust upon the hi-fi commnity.
Top five.

Caveate Emptor.

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IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT !!!!!!!!

I will soon be releasing my own product:

It will be a digital-fatigue reducing oil.

Distilled from the resin of crushed Stradivariius violins, this special oil is applied liberally to the crotch area whenever you are forced to listen to those nasty cd's.

You must rub this oil in for a period of not less than five minutes (three if you're listening to Shakira or Beonce. Ten if you're listening to Bach.) After proper application, using the specified up and down motion, you will no longer notice how harsh those cd's sound.

It's amazing!

For mp-3 listening, we offer an optional, battery-operated applicator. \:\)

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Quote:
Originally posted by Allan Speers:

This definitely makes my list of top-ten worst scams ever thrust upon the hi-fi commnity.
Top five.

How does this rank in your top ten?

Or maybe the better sounding knob is more up your street?

\:D

Justin

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Quote:
Originally posted by Thermionic:
How does this rank in your top ten?

Or maybe the better sounding knob is more up your street?

\:D
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Must...stop...laughing... Not...enough...oxygen...
About...to...pass...out.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!



...

Sorry, blacked out there for a minute.

Peece,
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thermionic:
Quote:
Originally posted by Allan Speers:

This definitely makes my list of top-ten worst scams ever thrust upon the hi-fi commnity.
Top five.

How does this rank in your top ten?

Or maybe the better sounding knob is more up your street?

\:D

Justin
"Price: $485.00"

(making many odd percussive sounds due to simultaneous confusion, distress, and amazement)

They should have a disclaimer for owners to avoid wicker furniture and other lesser items which will absorb all of the sonic goodness that the knob instills.


Give me the ANALOG and no one gets HURT
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Please someone tell me this is a spoof

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Don't know what this means - but I used to listen to LPs all the time. I never listen to CDs, and i don't have a turntable - so for whatever it means music used to be a part of our lives and now it isn't. And we love music. I make music for a living and I don't listening to it from the DAW - but there is very little music in the house so to speak. My wife is a music enthusiast and knows a lot about music and artists and history of R&B and blues etc - but we just don't have the desire to listn to music on CDs. It's not even as though we actively don't like it - we just fond ourselves not putting on the CDs. Tons of CDs in the house - yes. But they never get played.

anyone else?


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Quote:
Originally posted by edmann:
I make music for a living and I don't listening to it from the DAW
should be:"and I don't mind listening to it from the DAW..."


Ed Mann
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Ed, I've been enjoying my old vinyl lately. Just listened to a bunch last weekend. First time I've listened to 4 hours of music at home in a day for years.

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Quote:
Originally posted by edmann:
- we just found ourselves not putting on the CDs. Tons of CDs in the house - yes. But they never get played. anyone else?[/QB]
______________________
Yes!

I buy new CD's and listen maybe once. I have thousands of albums and a turntable and find myself putting on old Ray Charles records just to feel the love.


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Quote:
Originally posted by edmann:
Don't know what this means - but I used to listen to LPs all the time. I never listen to CDs, and i don't have a turntable - so for whatever it means music used to be a part of our lives and now it isn't.

...

anyone else?
Could it be because we are older and also work with music all day?

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Just to mess up the Bell Curve here, I listen to about 10 CD's a day (when I am not in the studio). I am an active buyer and use music as both a mood enhancer and an inspiration for creating. Last night I compiled 10 CD's of various artists for recreation! My interests are eclectic so I have found no lack of great music, new and old. As a matter of fact a few months ago I revisited Ed Mann's CMP release's on a whim, great stuff Ed. Presently in my player are 80's pop from Jakarta, The Art Ensemble of Chicago, John Fahey, Nurse With Wound, and Robert Wyatt


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Edmann,

You should find yourself a nice old pair of tube amps from the 60's. Not the new, "so clean it might as well be transistor" stuff, but the real funky old mullard-type circuits. The right amps will totally change how you feel about listening to cd's. It won't make them sound like vinyl, but it's an equally compelling experience.

Stay away from Macintosh, as they are ridiculously overpriced.

Good brands to look for:

Fisher, Eico, Scott, Acrosound, Heathkit, etc. -and If you ever see a pair of fairchild 260's or 270's, grab 'em up. those may be the best ever made, and are somewhat unknown.

These all sound great, though extremely Euphonic. $475 wooden knobs not required.

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I was listening to a CD (yes CD) of the Everly Bros Greatest Hits the other day - gee those guys could sing - but I could definitely tell when their recordings went from valve to transistor - it was glaringly obvious. well to me anyway.

cheers
John

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No matter if it's a CD or analog record,
the music is coming out of ANALOG speakers, right???
We are not hearing those 1s and 2s.
Everything comes through a D-A converter.
So, why does that matter? I have no knowledge on the subject, but I'd really like to know the truth.

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Thinking about it - I would have to say we listen to CDS around the house here more as a functional thing eg: sonic wallpaper, checking mixes or for the kid to dance around.

when I put on LPS, especially old AAA ones - thats when its sit back in the easy chair time & enjoy an engrossing listen.

FWIW

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I would have to say any unconscious stress that might be induced by digital music, at least for me, pales hugely in comparison
to overt stress of daily life like 'the grind', Wife's moods, DAW's, the 6 o clock news, Rick Astley etc etc .
Probably by a factor of 10 billion

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I've been wondering this myself, is it the 1's and 0's or.. Is it that these newer CD's are just squashed to shit in the master house.. I was so excited at Christmas to recieve an Evanescence cd, you know the meter's on my Tascam board don't even move throughout 90% of the CD.. They just pin out just below red and stay there.. The dynamics are just ruined.. I really believe the mastering idea is just killing what most of us enjoy as musicians in songs.. The "feel".. That's what I need out of music... I don't really get much else, cause it's not like 95% of the commercial crap out there now is unique anymore... Yes I find myself not listening to much, just working on my own un-unique stuff thinking that no one's been here before...
Later
Bri


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well I see some kind of nerve has been touched here...and I do not have the answers.....but my wife does not work on the DAW all day long and she is the most avid music lover and expert that I know of - and usually/used to fill the house with music - you know, the GOOD stuff (real music!), Joni Mitchell, old blues, EWF etc

One thing I was wondering about was the mastering - inevitably a lot of the great music was digitized over 10 - 14 years ago....so I don't know if it was the conversion quality at that time or what. I know I have some of the early Hendrix CDs and they sound f****** horrible and THAT is a crime :0

anyway maybe the tube amp thing is the way to go (?).....being the cynical cheapskate that I am maybe I will experiment with putting an ART tube-pre between the preamp and the amp.....

I also do leave room for the possibility that there IS something wierd in the digi-process that even the experts cannot quantify becuase the detection methods and terminology do not exist yet! who knows

I do know that in other alternative medicines muscle testing is accepted as worthy, and I believe it works (my own experience)

thanks for listening to the music Chris

Ed


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When I Listen to Nightfly, especially on DVD-A, I could hold my arms up all day long it sounds SO DAMN GOOD. Digital thru and thru - and old "dawn of", 1980's digital technology at that. Who says we don't need 16-bit/50KHz?

I think Don Davis was just jealous of Donald, Roger, and Elliot


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It really does not make sense. Whether you play a CD, LP, casette, phonograph etc., it is just an impulse to create sound vibrations coming from your speakers. If you listen to a CD, the vibrations and sounds coming to your ears are not digital !! They are just sounds, normal sound acoustic waves coming out from your speakers within your audible spectrum in EXACTLY the same way as they would come out if you play LP or whatever. ANother thing would be if (hypotetically) instead of listening to your speakers you would receive some 0-1 impulses through some cable or something like that - than it would be worth to raise the head and talk about "digitalised music" .

I think there are three basic factors :
1) the quality of your audio system (the cheap crappy speakers will not bring you a real pleasure and good therapeutic effects whatever medium you listen)
2) the quality of a recording (whatever was a method of creating it - analog or digital). A bad recording, be it analog or digital will not please you. We can discuss of the sound delicacies like sound of the tape, vintage devices etc., but this is quite different secondary story
3) And before all - what really counts is the quality of the music and music performance. Talking about therapeutic effects: if a particular music is inspired and positive, these effects will be there whether you listen to CD, LP or whatever, supposing the music is good, is well recorded and you have a quality audio system.

Of course, recorded music can never reach the effects, power and influence of music performed live - its real rich vibrations (which even the best possible speakers cannot reproduce) including the momentary flowing inspiration of the musician(s).
Even the best recording is just a "can", conserved, instant sterilised music. But if it is done well, it can be very nutritious

All the other things are just a matter of technology development. Was the Edison´s phonograph the most therapeutic device ? (according to Dr.Diamond maybe yes ..) Or the vinyls from 20´s ? To listen to an LP full of scratches etc. could be quite a frustrating experience. Digital technology is just a technology with the same inputs and outputs as any previous recording technology. Of course, the quality of AD and DA convertors (a crucial point in digital technology) in 1979 was probably not very exciting. So the first digital recordings might lack something. Even nowadays there are plenty of cheap digital devices in use which produce very bad sound quality recordings . But it is not about a "digital" sound, but just about a low quality of equipment (the same problem if your analog gear is very mediocre).

If you played and recorded an instrument or vocal in old times you could certainly hear that the sound you hear from the speakers is quite imperfect, deformed in a way, not much as live.

If today you use the best possible transparent devices - microphones, preamps, AD, DA and 1st class sound system - you can hear very very faithful, detailed and pleasing sound of that instrument (or voice) coming from the speakers. And what more, you can make it even more pleasing and natural by using many possibilities of the modern studio technology.

So, thinking over it, I would dare to say that what Dr.Diamond writes is simply not true, it is rather a kind of nonsense ...

Maybe he wanted rather to say that plenty of today´s music (produced on CDs, of course) like some rock, pop, punk, rap, heavy metal etc. is quite negative, aggressive, empty and causing lot of harmful and destructive effects on human psyche, physiology, behaviour and on society in general. Then he would be very much right (unfortunately).

BUT beautiful uplifting music will always remain beautiful and uplifting, maybe even more if you use the best possible recording and listening technology

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Quote:
Originally posted by Thermionic:
Quote:
Originally posted by Allan Speers:

This definitely makes my list of top-ten worst scams ever thrust upon the hi-fi commnity.
Top five.

How does this rank in your top ten?

Or maybe the better sounding knob is more up your street?

\:D

Justin
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Stop - it hurts!!!

A... Four Hundred Eighty Five Dollar Knob?!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

WOoo - beechwood... coated several times with C37 lacquer... for best possible sound...

HAW HAW HAW HAW

*cough*

*wheeze*

*snort*

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