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#487541 04/09/03 06:50 PM
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Just want to take a poll now that the Iraq war is
is starting to do a board fade.

So cast your votes:

Was it

wrong

or right?

No debates please.

Robocop

#487542 04/09/03 07:02 PM
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Requires a belief in the concepts of right and wrong, which I do not have.

My answer is therefore, "mu."

Nika.

#487543 04/09/03 07:09 PM
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I always find it instructive to have to find evidence to support an opinion when what you believe comes into question.

It was a good excersise in logic and language skill at least.


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#487544 04/09/03 07:46 PM
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Well, since I agreed from day one, I still agree. That doesn't mean I support bush, I just wanted them to take Saddam out.


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#487545 04/09/03 08:00 PM
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Well, I think the jury is still out. I've thought from day one that the real test of whether this was a good idea or not is going to be in the aftermath - what happens over the next 10 years or so. Of course by then most people will have forgotten that anything is a consequence of anything else. :rolleyes:

#487546 04/09/03 08:20 PM
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saddam was wrong.
bush was wrong.

but thin mint girl scout cookies are all right!

-d. gauss

#487547 04/09/03 08:23 PM
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theft is wrong, Iraq own his oil and no one may steal it.


\:\) Features Are Not An Opinion. \:\)
(John Hope, 2003)
http://johnhope.blogspot.com/

Addresse:
UIPLPPICDSS
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Att. Tua Sorella
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#487548 04/09/03 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tron:
theft is wrong, Iraq own his oil and no one may steal it.
We aren't going to steal it, we are just going to borrow several million barrels a day.

Was the war wrong or was it right ? No, it just was.

#487549 04/09/03 09:47 PM
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Wrong or right? Ask me again in a few years.

Gotta say though... that footage of the cheering Iraqis pulling down the statue of Saddam in central Baghdad, sent shivers down my spine. This is history, folks. Maybe, just maybe, this war is "right" after all.

I sincerely hope that this ends up being a "good thing" for the average Iraqi. (It better be... Lord knows we'll be paying for it for awhile!!)

#487550 04/09/03 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EJolson:

Gotta say though... that footage of the cheering Iraqis pulling down the statue of Saddam in central Baghdad, sent shivers down my spine. This is history, folks. Maybe, just maybe, this war is "right" after all.
Same here...I watched that unfold all morning...and the determination with which those people tried and tried to knock that statue down...hitting the pedestal with a single sledge hammer over and over!!!...

...it made me (and I hope many others) really believe that once unleashed...the better, non-Saddam side of Iraq, would finally show it's face, and ultimately give major credibility to having this war...even if NOTHING else is ever found or proven.

Though I think the WMD stuff is yet to come...it's just going to take a bit of time, and eventually people will start to talk, and the truth will come out.


miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
#487551 04/10/03 05:04 AM
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Wrong.

#487552 04/10/03 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EJolson:
... that footage of the cheering Iraqis pulling down the statue of Saddam in central Baghdad, sent shivers down my spine. This is history, folks. Maybe, just maybe, this war is "right" after all...

[/QB]
Reminds me of when the Berlin Wall fell. A great sight, and a lot of euphoria followed. Bulding a community and/or a nation is not easy.

#487553 04/10/03 05:22 AM
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it doesnt matter if it was wrong or right. its what it is and now we should all just hope for a quick solution to all of this and a safe return home for the americans there.


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#487554 04/10/03 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by miroslav:
Though I think the WMD stuff is yet to come...it's just going to take a bit of time, and eventually people will start to talk, and the truth will come out.
Interestingly, I saw a chemical/biological WMD expert on the news tonight. He stated the reason we haven't found WMD's is probably because the area in which WMD's were developed and stored in Iraq hasn't been acquired by U.S. troops yet. It's the area north and west of Baghdad. Even then, it took paid informants to find Iraq's WMD's after Gulf War I. Could be a while before we find them. If they exist, Saddam apparently decided not to play into our hands that they exist. Most likely they are hidden well.

Motives... I don't know

Results... I believe this will be right for the Iraqi people, long term.

As Alpha said... we'll see.


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#487555 04/10/03 08:35 AM
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Seeing video of the torture chambers, hearing stories from women of the beatings they were given, the killing of their husbands and sons.

Hearing about Uday Hussein shooting people at will and raping grade school girls at will.

The war was right in the beginning and it is even more right now. We have finally sent a message to the rest of the world that America has the balls to back up our threats. Just watch what happens in North Korea, Syria, etc. now.


Mark G.
"A man may fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame others" -- John Burroughs

"I consider ethics, as well as religion, as supplements to law in the government of man." -- Thomas Jefferson
#487556 04/10/03 09:15 AM
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I think the one with the biggest balls was Tony Blair. As he pushed forward to help the US, in spite of stiff opposition in Briatain.

He found the liberation of Iraq and destruction of the Saddam regime, more important than his own political future and career.


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#487557 04/10/03 02:45 PM
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Invading Iraq was more wrong than invading Grenada.

The TIMING was wrong - GW 1st, or at the worst, Clinton had more compelling reasons to go in. The closest analogy I can find, it's like giving your kid a whupping for a very bad thing they did (and continue to do) 3 yrs ago.

The RATIONALE was wrong. Plain and simple, there are no significant weapons of mass destruction. It is more likely that there are other (less aggressive) nations that have the potential to take out a high % of urban populations than Iraq does.

The MOTIVATION was wrong. Look and listen as to how quick China, North Korea and Russia are going to tell us to shut the fuck up when they start looking at the diamonds in their own back yards.

The POLITICS was wrong. As ineffectual as the UN is, and can be, for those of you (us) that follow US and international laws closely, for a country that prides itself on adhering to it's constitution, we're giving said constitution a nice butt-fuck...and we're not even providing a reach-around.

Despite the cheers and flowers, and despite the fact that IRAQ may be stabilized for the next 30-50-100 years, there will be a sharp increase in terrorist activities against USA assets overseas and on USA soil.

This is the "biggest" (but not necessarily the most defining) thing that GWII will have ever done in his entire life. There are larger, more pervasive and more critical problems he could have directed his energies and our resources to.

Saddam was reported to be one mean sonofabitch. He should have choked on some camel dung a long time ago. Certainly, GWII is not responsible for the policies of administrations past that helped him to become so great a threat to our existence that it required $100Billion, 500,000 troops and "x" many dead.

An excellent opportunity is provided for us to look at the other loonies in the world we are currrently supporting with guns, training and money.

#487558 04/10/03 02:56 PM
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First, sorry to bring debate into this thread. I'll stop after this post. :rolleyes:

Quote:
NYC:Drew wrote:
Reminds me of when the Berlin Wall fell. A great sight, and a lot of euphoria followed.
I don't agree. What has happened in Iraq is nothing like the fall of the Berlin Wall. The downfall of the East German regime came from the activity of the German people, not an invading country. As well, the event brought many, many thousands into the streets together to celebrate, not one or two hundred.

The Germans also had immediate self-determination of how society would be run. Nothing of the sort is true in Iraq.

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alphajerk wrote:
it doesnt matter if it was wrong or right.
I disagree again. It does matter. If Bush is able to claim victory, he'll be more confident to continue his war elsewhere.

#487559 04/10/03 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by johnnie red:
[QB]First, sorry to bring debate into this thread. I'll stop after this post. :rolleyes:
JR, it is interesting that you would disagree with my position, without (obviously - from your stated response) understanding my position, nor the context of what I wrote.

When I say:
Quote:
Reminds me of when the Berlin Wall fell. A great sight, and a lot of euphoria followed.
What do I mean?

#487560 04/10/03 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk:
it doesnt matter if it was wrong or right. its what it is and now we should all just hope for a quick solution to all of this and a safe return home for the americans there.

#487561 04/11/03 12:41 AM
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Wrong........

#487562 04/11/03 12:53 AM
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WRONG. Most of my reasons for saying so can be found in NYC Drews' reply above...

#487563 04/11/03 05:36 AM
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There's no right, there's no wrong. There's only popular opinion.


"There's no right, there's no wrong. There's only popular opinion" Jeffrey Goines
#487564 04/11/03 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by johnnie red:
Quote:
alphajerk wrote:
it doesnt matter if it was wrong or right.
I disagree again. It does matter. If Bush is able to claim victory, he'll be more confident to continue his war elsewhere.
no it doesnt NOW. they are there. the damage has been done.

that said, i HOPE TO GOD that the people of america arent as idiotic to re-elect the executioner Dubya to presidency again. i believe his actions have put all americans in jeopardy over his daddies little beef. i fear that he has started a holy war that will now be very difficult to diffuse. this is definately a time where SOMEONE needs to step foward to lead the US into a better state of affairs with the world and within ourselves. someone who will bring our economy back to what it was, someone who will repair the damages that dubya has created in the world theater and build better relationships with the other countries of the world.


alphajerk
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"if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson
#487565 04/11/03 05:39 AM
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Alphajerk- Very well put...

#487566 04/11/03 06:01 AM
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Quote:
NYC:Drew wrote:
JR, it is interesting that you would disagree with my position, without (obviously - from your stated response) understanding my position, nor the context of what I wrote.
I'm terribly sorry if I misunderstood your point. Honestly I can do that sometimes.

All day I had been hearing comparisons to the fall of the Berlin Wall, which didn't make sense to me, for the reasons I gave.

I mean, I saw the videos and the photos of the fall of the Hussein statue (which I'm pretty sure was done by the pull of a US tank). And of course I believe Hussein's dictatorship has fallen, but overall I don't think there's a comparison. The fall of communism in East Germany came from a democratic movement from below, whereas the fall of Hussein came from the bombs of a foreign military.

Quote:
What do I mean?
Perhaps you mean the euphoria of the Germans who hoped for a better life after the fall of Communism, but were soon dissappointed with the struggles of living under capitalism?

Perhaps you mean the euphoria of the west, believing in the "end of history" and a "new world order" of peace and prosperity, when in reality war still haunts us?

Yeah, I'm gonna go with the last one, which I find agreeable.

I hope that's right, and again sorry for misunderstanding you. I was just a little bit overwhelmed by all that happened yesterday. \:\)

#487567 04/11/03 06:31 AM
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Quote:
alphajerk wrote:
no it doesnt NOW. they are there. the damage has been done.
I understand your point, to a degree. We can't stop it from happening. But...

I still believe this war is going to be long and dirty. Today's news convinces me even more after yesterday's "liberation." The fighting could continue for many months and much longer perhaps. What will Iraqis do in response to US occupation? I think that's part of the question.

The Vietnam War dragged on and on and on. The US pulled out eventually partly because of the anti-war movement here in the US and the soldiers rebellion inside the military. I'm not sure the occupation of Iraq will have quite the same dynamic, but it will be an occupation of a country that doesn't want to be ruled by a foreign military. That could produce quite a bit of instability. Considering the widespread opposition in the Middle East to the war and occupation, the war could very easily spill over elsewhere.

And unfortunately - IMHO - I don't think the prospects of electing anyone who can solve this crisis are all that great. The only real solution is to pull the US military out immediately. I don't think the Democrats will put forward anyone that's willing to do that.

I guess what I'm saying is, we desperately need a LARGE section of our population that's forward about saying this war is "wrong."

#487568 04/11/03 07:22 AM
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Those who agreed with the war will still think it was right.

Those who opposed the war will still think it was wrong.

For me, it's way too soon to tell. As for the chills up your spine wathching the statue fall.

Well.........



Jotown:)

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#487569 04/11/03 09:46 AM
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Looking at the world on television is a bit like looking at the world through a straw. You will never see the big picture. First of all the old regime supporters will not be the streets they are hinding in fear of their lives.
To Start a War is NEVER the correct thing to do.
War is about killing people and that is wrong no matter who it is.
Peace Brothers & Sisters.

#487570 04/11/03 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by johnnie red:
The only real solution is to pull the US military out immediately. I don't think the Democrats will put forward anyone that's willing to do that.
actually, i dont think this is an option anymore, especially leaving the job half done right now. now the ONLY solution is to end it fully and end it quickly. dubya keeps saying that there is no time table... there IS. and it needs to be quick. this CANT drag on for months or years. this needs to be fixed ASAP, Hussein gotten rid of along with his little bastard sons.

the Iraqis need to be self governed as soon as possible with as much humanitarian aid thats needed. their country set up with their main export [oil] and the funds going to the people to help rebuild their country [something they have that germany doesnt] and US occupation dissolved as quickly as they came after IRAQI leadership has taken hold.


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