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#467331 06/18/02 05:47 PM
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Yes he does, Steve... a 32" bass drum with a calfskin head, even. \:\)

Be still my beating heart! \:D

--Lee

#467332 06/18/02 05:59 PM
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Yeah, and the drums are set up next to the kachelofen to keep all the calf heads in perfect tune.
The thing is just so kind to musical instruments, most days the maximum variation in heat is just a few degrees, and maybe 1 or 2% change in humidity.
Now that heating season is past, it cools everything off, having that big chunk of stone in the house. When it's 97 outside, like it was here last week, we're inside working in the afternoon, nice and cool.
I worked with the master (my crazy friend Michael D'Archangelo, born on Hallowe'en) and did a lot of the masonry work, I was actually considering becoming a kachelofen maker, but no, music calls.

There is no better way to heat a musical space, and what a joy to sing in unheated air in a nice warm room! Literally the objects in the room get heated, you can open a window and you're still sitting in a warm chair, and your body is warm.
The cat is nuts about it too- tell me Lee are you a cat person?
Mine is my familiar, no magic goes down without him!

We burn 2x2 mill ends that would have ended up in a landfill, basically we pay for delivery, $120 for two cords brought way out to the middle of nowhere here. No woodsplitting!

I designed the outside of the thing, and "Angel" designed the guts. It's shaped like a kind of blobby abstract stylized guitar/piano amoeba, very stylish indeed.

Ted


A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!

"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
#467333 06/18/02 06:11 PM
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Yes yes YES!!! That's the other thing that's sooooo cool about the kachelofen, NO dried out air from a furnace. And no spores and garbage from air ducts. And YEAH, all that great thermal mass to keep things cool in the summer.

And I'll just BET it keeps the drumheads happy, no constantly changing humidity levels... damn that is just perfection. And I'm sure the cat does indeed think it's kitty paradise (and yes I am a cat person, have two myself, and a dog too).

Whenever I get some money again (yeah, right), I'm just going to HAVE to take a nice road trip out to Oregon and pay you a visit!

--Lee

#467334 06/18/02 06:16 PM
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You are most certainly welcome! I'll save you a spot on the stove.
Ted


A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!

"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
#467335 06/18/02 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lee Flier:
Yes he does, Steve... a 32" bass drum with a calfskin head, even. \:\)

--Lee
And they say size doesn't matter


Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital
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#467336 06/18/02 08:57 PM
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Matrix is not so far away from the truth guys... 5000 years ago some very interesting truth was revealed in the Vedas...

Hare Krsna!

Krsna and death

Krsna as death to atheists
--------------------------

1. To the atheists God gives proof of His existence when He appears as death
and takes everything away. But God does not manifest His internal potency to
the faithless.(NBS 159)

2. Death is taken as the representative of God for the atheistic class of men. The devotee realizes the presence of God by devotional service, whereas the atheist realizes the presence of God in the shape of death. At death everything is finished, and one has to begin a new chapter of life in a new situation,
perhaps higher or lower thant he last one.(NOD xiii)

Going to Krsna at death
-----------------------

For one who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me. I am never lost, nor
is he never lost to Me. If we practice living in this way, we never lose Krsna and are never lost to Krsna, and at the time of death we are therefore sure to go to Krsna. If we are not lost to Krsna, where can we go but to Krsna? "Simply don't lose sight of Krsna." That is perfection of life. We can forget everything else, but we should never forget Krsna. If we can remember Krsna, we are the richest of men, even though people may see us as very poor.(POP 81)

Those who are intelligent are interested in putting an end to birth, old age, disease and death and entering into a spiritual life full of eternity, bliss and knowledge. The Bhakti-yogi knows that such a life is possible through
practice of Krsna consciousness and rememberance of Krsna at the time of death.(POP128)

Krsna says, dhiras tatra na muhyati- " A sober man is not perplexed at the time of death." If you prepare yourself for death, why should you be perplexed? For example, if in your childhood and boyhood you prepare yourself nicely, if you
become educated, then you will get a nice job, a nice situation, and be happy. Similarly, if you prepare yourself in this life for going back home back to Godhead, then where is your perplexity at the time of death? There is no
perplexity. You'll know, "I am going to Krsna. I am going back home back to Godhead. Now I'll not have to change material bodies; I will have a spiritual body. Now i shall play with Krsna and dance with Krsna and eat with Krsna."
This is Krsna consciuosness,to prepare yourself for next life. (jsd 27)

Remembering Krsna at death
--------------------------
Maharaja Pariksit met Sukadeva Goswami just a week before his death, and the King was perplexed as to what should be done before he was to pass on. Many other sages also arrived there, but no one could give him the proper direction.
Sukadeva Goswami, however, gave this direction to him as follows "My dear king, if you want to be fearless in meeting your death next week(for actually everyone is afraid at the point of death), then you must immediately begin the
process of hearing and chanting and remembering God". If one can chant and hear Hare Krsna and always remember Lord Krsna, then he is sure to become fearless of death, which may come at any moment.(NOD 22)

Because we are in ignorance, maya, at any time we may forget Krsna. All the centres of the Krsna consciousness movement are opened for this purpose-to facilitate chanting, dancing, and worshipping so that we shall not forget Krsna. If we always think of Krsna , there is a chance that we shall remember Krsna at the end of life.Everything takes practice. For example, if one wants to dance on the stage, one has to perform many rehearsals to practice how to
dance. Then if one becomes an expert dancer, when one dances on stage one will receive acclaim, "Ah, a very good dancer." But one cannot say, "I shall go immediately to the stage and become a good dancer." That is not possible. One may say, "No, no, no,I shall no attend the rehearsal. Just give me the stage, and I shall perform. But the director will not allow this, for one cannot become a good dancer without practice. The real purpose of life is to remember
Krsna when one's life comes to an end. If at the time of death one can remember Krsna, one's life is successful.(Tqk 133)

(Selections and Quotes from the books and lectures of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada)

Have a nice life. Purusha108


God is Great! Hmm... actually God is The Greatest!

http://www.tat-purusha.com
#467337 06/19/02 08:33 PM
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If it were not so far away, I'd want to come over and get some of what you are smokin.


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#467338 06/19/02 09:28 PM
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No problem, but it will take you this life-time of loving surender to the Creator of this illusion (matrix - maya - material world) which we are all living in... by the way He is not a bad guy like those stupid machines... in Matrix.

And sorry, no smoking allowed...

To engage in spiritual life automatically means to "link" with this spiritual "field of information" which is present and awaits us beyond the limitations of time and space.

The soul is eternal. The soul is overed by two kinds of body. One is subtle body. Just like you have got your mind; I have got my mind. Do you see your mind? Do I see your mind? So the soul is carried by two kinds of body.
One body is this gross, made of earth, water, air, sky, like that. They are like shirt and coat. This is the coating, and there is another body, shirt, which is made of mind, intelligence, and ego. So when this gross body is finished, the subtle body is there. So at the time of your death the mental condition will carry you to a similar body. This mental body you do not see. Therefore you say that this man is dead. It is not dead. The gross body is changed, and the mental body carries him to
another gross body. This is the process of the soul新 transmigration from one body to another.
At the time of death, according to his mental condition, the living being is carried by the subtle body, consisting of mind, intelligence and ego, to another gross body. When higher authorities have decided what kind of gross
body the living entity will have, he is forced to enter such a body, and thus he automatically gives up his previous body.

Srimad Bhagavatam 1.12.7
Death generally involves remaining in trance for seven months. A living being, according to his own action, is allowed to enter into the womb of a mother by the vehicle of a father新 semina, and thus he develops his desired body. This is the law of birth in specific bodies according to one新 past actions. Karma.

Bhagavad-Gita 7.28

Death is nothing but sleeping for seven months. That新 all. Sleeping for seven months, that is called death. Just like, in the operation table, one becomes unconscious for one hour, half an hour. Then he comes to his consciousness.
Again he comes to the same point. So similarly, death is nothing but to remain practically unconscious for seven months. That新 all.
This body is left, and we enter into a articular womb of mother, and just to develop another body it takes about seven months. Then, after seven
months, when the body is fit, then our consciousness comes back. Then we want to come out of the womb. And at the tenth month we come out. That is a very miserable condition. That is the miserable condition of birth.

Bhagavad Gita 2.11,

In the first day of intercourse of the father-mother, the secretion mix together, emulsified, and if the living entity is allowed to enter into
that, it grows. That is the beginning of our body. But if the living entity is not allowed into the, that emulsified, small pealike form, then there is no pregnancy. So attempt is made to pollute that emulsification. Therefore
the living entity cannot enter into it and there is no pregnancy. Otherwise there must be pregnancy. After sex, the living entity takes shelter within the semina and ovum of the father and mother. The formation is just like a small grain. That grain develops because the spirit soul has taken shelter. It is not that the body develops automatically, and at seven months there is life.

Oh my God, I am not this material body?!


God is Great! Hmm... actually God is The Greatest!

http://www.tat-purusha.com
#467339 06/20/02 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by teller:

Here's Ray Kurzweil's review of the book.
That's amusing. Kurzweil starts off attacking Wolfram on the basis that he's biased towards his little darling of a concept in the guise of class 4 automata, rails on him about it...

... Then as you read further his diatribe goes further and further into the relevance AI, *Kurzweil's* pet topic. Pretty funny...

Having said that, sounds like I'll wait until I can check it out from the library, I don't have time for such an indulgence now. Ack.


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#467340 06/20/02 11:55 AM
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The sheer arrogance of our species is that we even attempt to understand the universe. Traditional physics has done an outstanding job in describing observable phenomena. It only stumbles at the extremes - what happens when density and temperature go to infinity. At its best science can explain how things happen, but offers little insight if the question shifts to why things happen? Frankly, I find it astounding that we have even achieved this level of insight. For instance, why should gravity obey an inverse square relationship? An equation, a logical thought, actually captures the reality of the moon orbiting the earth. It's unreal.

Maybe Wolfram is right, the universe may be a computing device running software (algorithms). He places emphasis on complex systems being able to emerge from simple states. In the short-term anything is possible, but in the long-term, if our universe is a closed system, it will obey the law of entropy and literally run itself down to a cold dark state. As the universe suffers a heat death it's hard conceive how it will be able to calculate its next state. Maybe the whole idea of complexity is just another illusion.

#467341 06/20/02 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by onhwy61:
The sheer arrogance of our species is that we even attempt to understand the universe. Traditional physics has done an outstanding job in describing observable phenomena.
Why is that arrogant? Trying to understand what we observe is in our nature. What's arrogant is if we fail to acknowledge that there's always a larger envelope than what we can observe or understand. Lots of people do fail in that, but the best scientists don't.

Quote:

At its best science can explain how things happen, but offers little insight if the question shifts to why things happen?
Right. Well, science can't and shouldn't do everything. That's why Robert Pirsig, author of "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance", postulated that physics is really just a branch of philosophy. \:D

--Lee

#467342 06/20/02 04:54 PM
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In Vedic literature we can receive much information about all the planets, and we can believe it or not believe it. All of the important planets are described in Vedic literatures, especially Srimad-Bhagavatam, and the spiritual world, which is beyond this material sky, is described as avyakta, unmanifested. One should desire and hanker after that supreme kingdom, for when one attains that kingdom, he does not have to return to this material world.

In the Vedas it is said that God is beyond the approach of mundane words and intelligence. And yet by His causeless mercy one can have suitable senses to hear Him or to speak to Him. This is the Lord's inconceivable energy.

All Vedic knowledge is infallible, and sadhus accept Vedic knowledge to be complete and infallible. For example, cow dung is the stool of an animal, and according to smriti, or Vedic injunction, if one touches the stool of an animal he has to take a bath to purify himself. But in the Vedic scriptures cow dung is considered to be a purifying agent. One might consider this to be contradictory, but it is accepted because it is Vedic injunction, and indeed by accepting this, one will not commit a mistake; subsequently it has been proved by modern science that cow dung contains all antiseptic properties. So Vedic knowledge is complete because it is above all doubts and mistakes, and Bhagavad-gita is the essence of all Vedic knowledge.

Purusha108


God is Great! Hmm... actually God is The Greatest!

http://www.tat-purusha.com
#467343 06/20/02 05:41 PM
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Interesting article on Wolfram in yesterday's Boston Globe, A challenging view of the universe


Dan Richards
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#467344 06/20/02 05:53 PM
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Hey Purusha,
I see the Vedas as ancient wisdom made to serve as an excuse for the caste system, and generally keeping the rabble in line, much like Nietzche's idea of Christianity as a morality for slaves.
That's pretty typical for this world, I would say, and while I can appreciate some of the great wisdom and perspective of the Vedas, I know some political shenanigans have gone on, much as with the King James Bible.

So I have to take it all with a grain of salt.
Nonetheless I use and enjoy many of the concepts of Ayurveda, although with my usual Mark Twain steely-eyed softhearted skepticism.
I think the Egyptians were onto something with their cat worship...
And I don't imagine the cats bowed down to the Pharaoh.
Ted


A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!

"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
#467345 06/20/02 06:08 PM
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To the right of the article, A challenging view of the universe , is a link, "Explore Wolfram's theory of cellular automata". Click it and have a look.

Then compare it to the Science of I Ching .


Dan Richards
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#467346 06/20/02 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ted Nightshade:
I think the Egyptians were onto something with their cat worship...
And I don't imagine the cats bowed down to the Pharaoh.


miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

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#467347 06/20/02 06:51 PM
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When I was a kid in the 70's I would go to the Exploratorium, a hands on science museum in San Francisco, CA.
There I encountered a custom table top video game: "The Game of Life".
It was EXACTLY what is described in the sidebar to the article linked to above in Teller's post.
You could place your pixels in a little starting pattern, and let the algorithm unfold, and your little pattern would grow and change, either dying out sooner or later or expanding endlessly.
A very hairy looking young man explained to me as I played that the video game was in a toroidal, donut shaped universe, so the pattern would come back around and interact with itself.

That was twenty-plus years ago, and I just know the SF freaks who put that together had a go round or two with the I Ching! Although I'm sure mainstream physics had a lot to do with it to. You'd also see stuff like that at Lawrence Laboratories in Berkeley, where I bathed in the heady radioactive atmosphere while playing all the latest greatest new computer games available today, loaded off cassette into a commodore computer.
Ted

Ted


A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!

"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
#467348 06/20/02 07:44 PM
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Ted Nightshade wrote:

"Hey Purusha,
I see the Vedas as ancient wisdom made to serve as an excuse for the caste system, and generally keeping the rabble in line, much like Nietzche's idea of Christianity as a morality for slaves.
That's pretty typical for this world, I would say, and while I can appreciate some of the great wisdom and perspective of the Vedas, I know some political shenanigans have gone on, much as with the King James Bible.

So I have to take it all with a grain of salt.
Nonetheless I use and enjoy many of the concepts of Ayurveda, although with my usual Mark Twain steely-eyed softhearted skepticism.
I think the Egyptians were onto something with their cat worship...
And I don't imagine the cats bowed down to the Pharaoh."

Hey Ted,

Nicely put. My response was leaning more toward the George Carlin spectrum but Twain bridges the 'twain much more compassionately.

#467349 06/20/02 10:07 PM
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People in general, especially in this Age of Kali, are enamored by the external energy of Krishna, and they wrongly think that by advancement of material comforts every man will be happy. They have no knowledge that the material or external nature is very strong, for everyone is strongly bound by the stringent laws of material nature. A living entity is happily the part and parcel of the Lord, and thus his natural function is to render immediate service to the Lord. By the spell of illusion one tries to be happy by serving his personal sense gratification in different forms which will never make him happy. Instead of satisfying his own personal material senses, he has to satisfy the senses of the Lord. That is the highest perfection of life. \:\)


God is Great! Hmm... actually God is The Greatest!

http://www.tat-purusha.com
#467350 06/20/02 11:31 PM
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Ted wrote:

"I see the Vedas as ancient wisdom made to serve as an excuse for the caste system, and generally keeping the rabble in line, much like Nietzche's idea of Christianity as a morality for slaves."

\:\) Hi Ted, here is my answer.

Human society all over the world is divided into four castes and four orders of life. The four castes are the intelligent caste, the martial caste, the productive caste and the laborer caste. These castes are classified in terms of ones work and qualification and not by birth.
Then again there are four orders of life, namely the student life, the householders life, the retired and the devotional life. In the best interest of human society there must be such divisions of life, otherwise no social institution can grow in a healthy state. And in each and every one of the abovementioned divisions of life, the aim must be to please the supreme authority of the Personality of Godhead. This institutional function of human society is known as the system of varna-asrama-dharma, which is quite natural for the civilized life. The varna-asrama institution is constructed to enable one to realize the Absolute Truth. It is not for artificial domination of one division over another. When the aim of life, or realization of the Absolute Truth, is missed by too much attachment for indriya-priti, or sense gratification, as already discussed hereinbefore, the institution of the varna-asrama is utilized by selfish men to pose an artificial predominance over the weaker section. In the Kali-yuga, or in the age of quarrel, this artificial predominance is already current, but the saner section of the people know it well that the divisions of castes and orders of life are meant for smooth social intercourse and high-thinking self-realization and not for any other purpose.
Herein the statement of Bh輍avatam is that the highest aim of life or the highest perfection of the institution of the varna-asrama is to cooperate jointly for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord.

Why just accepting some parts of the vedas to gain from, why not all, especially the spiritual knowledge?!

Purusha108 ;\)


God is Great! Hmm... actually God is The Greatest!

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#467351 06/21/02 12:15 AM
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Becuase some of it is bullshit

Talcott


Ahh! Let us proclaim absolute truths.

Let us dishonor war, No...glorious war does not exist.

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#467352 06/21/02 01:20 AM
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Sorry, I am not telepathic.

Do you have some more inteligent answer?

Or this is all you can say.

Your servant, Purusha108


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#467353 06/21/02 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Talcott:
Becuase some of it is bullshit

Talcott
For God's sake (or whomever) Talcott, be intelligent and pay attention - it is cow dung, not bullshit.

-------------

Curve has left the building...
Paul has left the building...
Elvis has left the building...


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#467354 06/21/02 03:22 AM
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Universal Tranlation

Bullshit=Untrue=False=Erroneous=Wrong

On which point would you enjoy a civilized discussion. \:D

Talcott


Ahh! Let us proclaim absolute truths.

Let us dishonor war, No...glorious war does not exist.

-Victor Hugo

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#467355 06/21/02 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Purusha108:

People in general, especially in this Age of Kali, are enamored by the external energy of Krishna, and they wrongly think that by advancement of material comforts every man will be happy. They have no knowledge that the material or external nature is very strong, for everyone is strongly bound by the stringent laws of material nature. A living entity is happily the part and parcel of the Lord, and thus his natural function is to render immediate service to the Lord. By the spell of illusion one tries to be happy by serving his personal sense gratification in different forms which will never make him happy. Instead of satisfying his own personal material senses, he has to satisfy the senses of the Lord. That is the highest perfection of life.
Yeah...but how does this help me at 1:00am, when I've been trying to lay down a guitar track for 4 hours staight, and finally...just as the last four measures of the song are going down, with absolutley the best take yet...some drunk hit's a telephone poll...all power to the studio goes out and with it my guitar track...

...where's Krishna's energy when I really needed it?

Besides, I always thought that "the highest perfection of life"...was a Neve console...but that's just me...I could be wrong...


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#467356 06/21/02 06:13 AM
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What I'm getting from Purusha's messages is, if you eat cow shit you will achieve a higher state of consciousness. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

#467357 06/21/02 06:29 AM
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I liked it better when we were talking about kachelofens and Ted's 32 inch... uh... bass drum.

#467358 06/21/02 07:01 AM
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Beats a Big Ten Inch Record any day.

Purusha, there is wisdom in what you say. Indeed doing for others feels damn good, and let's you attend to sensual earthly pleasures with a healthy appetite, not a sour jaded stomach.
But "absolute truth" is a bit much for me. Perhaps something is lost in translation.
Enjoy!
Ted


A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!

"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
#467359 06/21/02 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Purusha108:
In Vedic literature we can receive much information about all the planets, and we can believe it or not believe it.
So, have you read the Mahabharata? Particularly the interesting bits that seem to have some curious allusions to modern technology? An entertaining tome...


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#467360 06/21/02 09:25 AM
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Truth lies somewhere in between. I'm waiting for someone to incorporate *pragmatic* truths from all the major philosophies and religions into a coherent "Grand Philosophical Theory"; that could be of as much use as a new paradigm for describing the physical universe.

Lee: are you familiar with hay bale construction techniques?


Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com
Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien
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