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Joined: Jan 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rail Jon Rogut:
Actually Johnny, I had a long meeting with the fellow who designed the 88R and even saw scematics and modules.. the 88R, while maintaining the V topology is a complete redesign.

Rail
Rail, I appreciate your input. However, IMHO, there may still be more "smoke and mirrors" involved than meets the eye regarding how much the 88R is a 'new' desk. Perhaps I'm wrong, but the 88R does not seem to be a 'new' desk to the extent that the V's were from the 8100 series which preceded it.

And the fact is, whether or not the 88R is a complete redesign, Neve had to say it was because the VR's were really not selling well. Regardless of the Neve sales pitch, my guess is that yes, some technologies of it are very new and others are not that new. Just my opinion...can't say for sure since I'm not a Neve employee!

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Rail Jon Rogut,

Thank's for the reply. What you've stated(about the Neve 88R) is what some of us have known for 2 years now. And I restate as I have before whilst agreeing with you totailly that both the SSL XL9000K, & the Neve 88R are excellent consoles. I'm glad to see that there is healthy competition in the highend console realm. This is a very good thing for people that want variety in the sound they can present for works with high production values, and want flexibility in the way they want to work via multiple console platforms.

Threshold.

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johnnyvn,

You sound like a person who's either too scared, or too lazy to look into learning a new console, & it's respective automation system even if it could enhance the quality of your final product, & help you, & your clients work more efficiently. I feel sorry for you if producers start calling you, & asking you if you know the 88R because either they, or the artist want that sound, or need to pick up where the project left off wherein the previous engineers started the project on a 'Neve' product, & want to finish it there.

Me, I'll look into anything that's going to improve my end product, & help me, & my clients to work efficiently. After all is'nt it all about the music, & presenting it in the best form we possibly can(also making the recording experience as enjoyable as possible by being swift, & efficient)? Fpr example just last week I was going over the 1.3 revision for the Akai MPC 4000 so I could stay fresh on that piece of equipment, & all the changes/upgrades to it since 1.0 through 1.2. Man get used to learning new gear because if you don't you' ll find yourself out of work very soon.

Threshold.

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Guys, you're not fighting over your moms right know. It almost seems like it.

I have spoken to the designers of that 88R desk.

It is some-what based on a VR, according to him.
Especially the eq. It's a lot better though, cleaner etc.

/Poelo

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Quote:
Originally posted by Threshold:
johnnyvn,

You sound like a person who's either too scared, or too lazy to look into learning a new console, & it's respective automation system even if it could enhance the quality of your final product, & help you, & your clients work more efficiently. I feel sorry for you if producers start calling you, & asking you if you know the 88R because either they, or the artist want that sound, or need to pick up where the project left off wherein the previous engineers started the project on a 'Neve' product, & want to finish it there.

Man get used to learning new gear because if you don't you' ll find yourself out of work very soon.

Threshold.
Thresh...man, thanks for the comments. I feel like I have so much to learn from you. Please, teach me the ways of the farce. You're right...I gotta keep closer contact with my studio manager to monitor how many calls we're getting for the 88R. Do you think this can wait till Monday morning or should I jump on it right away? In the meanwhile, can you email me that Akai S4000 manual? I don't want to fall behind. By the way, do you know where I can get new lightbulbs for my Tascam PortaStudio meters? Some of them are burned out and I don't want my clients to think I'm sleeping. I pray to stay hip and current. Do you think my Korg M1R is current enough?

Poelo, thanks for weighing in. If you're correct, the 88R's "completely new technologies" are exactly as I expected...some true advancements supplimented by 'smoke and mirrors'.

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johnnyvn,

You said:

"Thresh...man, thanks for the comments. I feel like I have so much to learn from you. Please, teach me the ways of the farce. You're right...I gotta keep closer contact with my studio manager to monitor how many calls we're getting for the 88R. Do you think this can wait till Monday morning or should I jump on it right away? In the meanwhile, can you email me that Akai S4000 manual? I don't want to fall behind. By the way, do you know where I can get new lightbulbs for my Tascam PortaStudio meters? Some of them are burned out and I don't want my clients to think I'm sleeping. I pray to stay hip and current. Do you think my Korg M1R is current enough?......."

I say:

Not only do you appear to be too scared, prideful, & lazy to look at new equipment options(88R, MPC4000, Plugzilla etc., etc., etc.). But your sarcasm is the icing on the top of your personal 'sour grapes' cake(another characteristic of someone who hates to be wrong, & when wrong can never bring themselves to admit their shortcoming). I'm just glad that I don't work with people like you in the studio(or at least I try to avoid doing so as much as possible). I hope you get some sort of 'revelation' that snaps you into a positive mode wherein you can display a professional attitude because the one you have right now spells 'loser, loser, loser'.

Threshold.

P.S.:It's Akai MPC 4000, & S 5000, or S 6000, & the Korg M1 is still not a bad piece of equipment to work with in the hands of a capable musician. I say use whatever it takes to get you there(new, or old) but always look for ways to improve upon what's already been established.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Threshold:
johnnyvn,

Not only do you appear to be too scared, prideful, & lazy to look at new equipment options(88R, MPC4000, Plugzilla etc., etc., etc.). But your sarcasm is the icing on the top of your personal 'sour grapes' cake(another characteristic of someone who hates to be wrong, & when wrong can never bring themselves to admit their shortcoming). I'm just glad that I don't work with people like you in the studio(or at least I try to avoid doing so as much as possible). I hope you get some sort of 'revelation' that snaps you into a positive mode wherein you can display a professional attitude because the one you have right now spells 'loser, loser, loser'.

Threshold.

Thresh...

My, my, my...stick to the topic...will the 88R topple SSL's reign as "king of the jungle"? I've never been wrong on this...much as you hate to hear me say it, the answer is clearly no. no. no.

Neve was reigning champ through the 70's (perhaps also in the 50's and 60's...I wasn't around then). I mean, Neve had a VIRTUAL LOCK on top slot. But in the 80's, while Neve was too busy celebrating their success, SSL quietly snuck into the castle with the product(s) and feature(s) the people wanted. Next thing you know, Neve was on the curb watching the SSL parade waltz by. As an appreciator of pure business stories, the Neve/SSL story is a classic. SSL toppled Neve using good business practices...great product, great sales team, great customer service and great technical support. I didn't write the story...history did.

Again, as a disclaimer, I have no doubt that the 88R is a good console. And I agree that competition in business is a good thing for all involved. For studios owners who wish to cater to a Neve clientele, the 88R might fit the bill nicely. Cool. Everyone's happy.

Still, reality is reality and SSL has sold more XL9000K's in half the time as Neve has sold 88R's.

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johnnyvn,

Now you're talking 'some' sense. I agree that SSL has used good business tactics. I agree that currently SSL is 'king of the jungle' of large format consoles. But in saying this I include all the old SSL E, G, & G+ systems. When you narrow it down to the true cream of the crop( AMS-Neve 88R vs. SSL XL9000K excluding SL9000J's)things are quite even. I disagree with your statement about Neve being toppled. The Neve 88R is putting Neve back in game.

In summary all I've really got to say is that irregardless of the original topic(this post has gotten way off target in multiple ways)the 88R is neck, & neck with the XL9000K(foot notes, & handicaps considered). So let's see who sells the most starting as of today. You'll see that the race will come out quite evenly.

Threshold.

P.S.:As a matter of fact to commemorate this I'l start a new post as of today hoping it does'nt get erased. Let's watch.

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AMS-Neve/88R vs. SSL/XL9000K worldwide grand totals are currently as follows:

AMS-Neve/88Rs:

Conway, LA=1
Village, LA=1
Sony, NY=1
Chalice, LA=1
Studios 301, Sydney=1
Sony, Tokyo=3
Central China TV=1
Mossimo Scarpo, Rome=1
XXX, Paris=1
Air, London=1
Barefoot, LA=1
Angel, London=1
Sphere, London=1
Skywalker, Marion County CA=1
TV Asahi, Tokyo=1
Ocean Way, LA=1
Magbien, Germany=1
Fuji TV, Japan=1
David Gilmour, London=1
Bell Studios, Iran=1

Total 88R's = 22

SSL/XL9000Ks:

Boogie Park, Germany=1
Platinum Sound,NY=1
Plus XXX,France=1
Mayfair, London=1
Olympic, London =1
Sahara India TV, India=1
MG Sound, Vienna=1
Mega Studios, France=1
Sing Sing, Australia=1
Planet Kingdom, Japan=1
House Of Music, Germany=1
The Hit Factory, NY=3
Paragon, TN=1
Pressure Point, Chicago=1
Angel Mountain, PA=1
Pacifique, LA=2
Mix Room, LA=1
Larrabee, LA=1
Studio Davout, France=1

Total XL9000K's = 22

Threshold.

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