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Just got home from the SSL Introduction event to introduce their XL9000 K-Series console. I'm putting together a short report (will have it posted by 10:30p tonight...1/2 hour from now) under a separate post on GM's thread.

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if the crafty one isnt quantum! then my guess is Rob [the man with the plan to phase align Events with the subs via a roller system a top large format consoles]

survery sez?


alphajerk
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LOL I remember that,, I am with Alpha...

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Everybody,

johnnyvn just posted about the SSL/XL9K.
First off they made a major mistake by
not putting in moving small faders
if the report I got was complete in
not listing that as part of the upgrade.
There should be no VCA anywhere
unless it's in you dynamics section.
They should have automated the
reverb returns. But this is something
AMS-Neve, & AMEK should also
do on their flagship analogue
boards. In summary this is
a hard answer to the pressure
SSL has been feeling from
AMEK, & especially AMS-Neve.
When you've got studios with
a 9K, & 88R in the same facility
to compare almost side by side,
& people start choosing the
88R that is a major sign of
trouble to SSL.

"The Crafty One".
fee

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Dear Crafty Boy,

Maybe If You recorded or mixed records every day
We might care about anything you have to say
but as far as i'm concerned if you won't share
your name than your just a fucking wannabe!!!!

Chris Lord-Alge

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All,

Wow, Chris Lord Alge(Chris L.A.)! I'm impressed if it's the C.L.A. who's name I see on record jackets. But, then again no. Chris L.A. seems like he's strung out, as if 'crafty1' pimped him or something. Or maybe because the 'cla' we know of(the famous engineer) is a strict SSL man, & hates Neve stuff. But then again maybe not because the 'cla' we all know has a tendency to use old SSL E series desks. Looks like alot of hiden agenda packed in this post.

Threshold.

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: Threshold ]

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crafty1,

Are you getting kickbacks from AMS-Neve?

Threshold.

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Steve, & Alphajerk,

I think it's that person called 'Quantum'. There's my vote.

Threshold.

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: Threshold ]

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Cockle ?


Rob Hoffman
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Threshold,

That guy 'clamix' does seem kind of grouchy. Kind of like 'Granpa Simpson' from 'The Simpsons' show. But, I can see why he might be so grouchy. Take a look at the pictures of the studio he works out of. It looks like an antique shop to me.

http://www.primenet.com/~imagerec/

http://www.primenet.com/~imagerec/studioa.html

He's still mixing on an old SSL/E series console, UREI/813 main monitors, & Yamaha/NS 10 mini monitors. I wonder has he heard of Technics/SL 1200 3D turntables, & Pro Tools|HD, or is he stuck back in the disco era. I thought he was famous(clamix) because he gets alot of credits on records but maybe the reason why he gets so much work is because he's so cheap, & the labels run to him when they're over budget. I can see how he can do it to(be so cheap). A studio like that probably goes for 1/4 what a 9K room can be had for these days. The(Image Recording) don't even have Pro Tools(at least it's not listed on the website, that I know of). Lack of Pro Tools alone would put me at his stress level. The rest of his(clamix's) working environment would put me in the 'Cookoo's Nest'.Just my two cents.

DJ Erupt

P.S.:'clamix' might also be a 'hater':jealous person. I say this because if 'crafty1' happens to be one of the guys who engineers for 'The Neptunes' he's sitting pretty right about now. According to 'Billboard' 'The Neptunes' as a team were listed as the #1 producer from the'Billboard' 'Hot 100' yearend summary list for 2001. Ouch!

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: DJ Erupt ]

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robmix,

Cockle? Worse even! 'Tumble Weed'! Just kidding. No, but really some of what this person's(crafty1) been saying seems pretty legit. I can't see how he/she could come up with info. he/she does, & be phony. I checked out some of the technical stuff he/she's been posting, & technically he/she knows what he/she's talking about. It's crafty1's(he/she's) credentials that seem hardest to verify. And he/she's not making it easy for us to figure out who he/she is! Maybe 'crafty1' is an 'it'!

Threshold.

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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Erupt:
Threshold,

That guy 'clamix' does seem kind of grouchy. Kind of like 'Granpa Simpson' from 'The Simpsons' show. But, I can see why he might be so grouchy. Take a look at the pictures of the studio he works out of. It looks like an antique shop to me.

http://www.primenet.com/~imagerec/

http://www.primenet.com/~imagerec/studioa.html

He's still mixing on an old SSL/E series console, UREI/813 main monitors, & Yamaha/NS 10 mini monitors. I wonder has he heard of Technics/SL 1200 3D turntables, & Pro Tools|HD, or is he stuck back in the disco era. I thought he was famous(clamix) because he gets alot of credits on records but maybe the reason why he gets so much work is because he's so cheap, & the labels run to him when they're over budget. I can see how he can do it to(be so cheap). A studio like that probably goes for 1/4 what a 9K room can be had for these days. The(Image Recording) don't even have Pro Tools(at least it's not listed on the website, that I know of). Lack of Pro Tools alone would put me at his stress level. The rest of his(clamix's) working environment would put me in the 'Cookoo's Nest'.Just my two cents.

DJ Erupt

P.S.:'clamix' might also be a 'hater':jealous person. I say this because if 'crafty1' happens to be one of the guys who engineers for 'The Neptunes' he's sitting pretty right about now. According to 'Billboard' 'The Neptunes' as a team were listed as the #1 producer from the'Billboard' 'Hot 100' yearend summary list for 2001. Ouch!

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: DJ Erupt ]



Hang on there buddy, before you go insulting one of the most in demand engineers there is. Not the most expensive, but not the cheapest either - like that means anything anyway. CLA is the "go to guy" for most of the rock mixes you hear on the radio, many huge country hits (maybe you've heard of Faith Hill, Tim Mcgraw, and Joe Demissina). And he is by far the fastest engineer I've ever seen.

Maybe you need to learn what "antique" gear actually sounds like and not be so impressed with the lastest and greatest. Image has some killer history and in any given year has mixed more hits on that little SSL than any other studio out there.

No one knows who Crafty is and as far as I'm concerned, anyone who throws out that kind of shit without letting people know who and where he comes from is nothing but a wanna-be. Anyone can sit on the internet and claim they're some mega-engineer - just give me some credits.

Rob

P.S. they do have Pro Tools, but what the hell does that have to do with mixing (CLA's specialty) unless the producer had his head shoved up his ass during the tracking sessions.


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oh shit, is this REALLY the infamous CLA?!?

if so i have wanted to tell you as a FAN of music, QUIT FUCKING UP MY FAVORITE BANDS MIXES! they sound so freaking cookie cutter, yeah the ONE SOUND you get sounds great but damn, vary it a little bit [and im not talking from artist to artist]. its always like all on all the time. i feel like im listening to the radio when i listen to your cd's, and i HATE the radio, feels like one giant advertisement... its why i dont listen to it, and the programming too [well the local station isnt clear channel YET and doesnt strap an insane limiter on its transmitter either so i will listen to that one... but they dont play the flavors of the weak either] maybe its not you... maybe the artists are to blame with their recent releases being so boring.

i guess im not a fuck em and chuck em kinda guy... i like things to "develop" [make sure she cums too ;\) ]


but damn DJ... the fucker has SO MUCH good equipment, he buys several of each just to keep them on their own "presets"! i would cum in my pants if i had what he has at his disposal. fuck prostools, although you COULD work even quicker with random access rather than running off tape [but i think i read some reason you have for that] but i would go with a radar48 or something instead... so you dont have to look at a screen. his post wasnt grumpy, MINE is grumpy.


and jesus, does it even MATTER between two high end boards?!? working on either one it BETTER sound DAMN GOOD. splitting hairs... try a behringer vs. mackie and making either one sound good. seriously, if you use the neve or you use the ssl... can you blame the board if it doesnt come out right? does the listener even give a fuck as they "steal it" on mp3?


alphajerk
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Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk:
oh shit, is this REALLY the infamous CLA?!?
[...]

...uh, actually, it is!!!!
.


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robmix,

Responding to your post:

"CLA is the "go to guy" for most of the rock mixes......"

He (clamix) could actually be part of the reason why Hip-Hop/R&B is topping the 'Hot 100' charts more so instead of Rock singles. Rock these days sounds so much the same. I agree with 'alphajerk' in this area. This could be why 'clamix' seems jealous, because the genre 'crafty1' seems to work within is more popular than the genre'clamix' works within? And I kinda agree with you about 'crafty1' not posting credits. But then again people have been ragging on 'crafty' for being arrogant. He appologized for appearing that way(arrogant). So if he posted credits would you, & everybody here think he was insincere(in his apology of appearing arrogant), call him arrogant once again, or just be satisfied with his credentials (crafty's) if what he says pans out. Looks like 'crafty' is in a lose-lose situation here. He looses if credits are posted. He looses if credits don't get posted. I'm glad I don't have to deal with pacifing you guys(record industry heavyweights). Sheesh! If I had to work with guys like 'clamix'(the way he appears to be) I'd quit doing music because it probably would'nt be fun anymore.

DJ Erupt.

P.S.:If they've(Image Recording)got Pro Tools it's not listed on their web-site. And one question mind you? Are you, & 'clamix' best friends, or something? I saw his name on your web-site. Makes me think you would be kind of biased towards 'clamix', & against 'crafty1'? Did 'crafty', & some of his boys beat you guys('clamix', & you 'robmix' )out of a record deal somewhere along the line? Just my humble observation.

[ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: DJ Erupt ]

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Fibes,

I'm with you. I dislike phonie's. But I won't go to the extremes of suffering someone violence. Frankly I don't know who, or what to believe around here. 'crafty1' posts all this evidence here, & still nobody believes him/her, 'clamix' posts one time, & everybody thinks it's one of the famous 'Alge' brothers but, 'gm' turns around, & says it's not. Then 'gm' turns around 'aagggaain', & says it is the 'real' 'C.L.A.'='clamix'. We're really in trouble if 'gm'=our distinguished moderator can't tell the difference. I'm gettin' dizzy. I feel like stockholders after the 'Enron' scam/fiasco.

Threshold.

[ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: Threshold ]

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Anyone else notice that once GM ixnayed the fake CLA, Crafty1 is also suddenly nowhere to be found? Methinks they were one and the same.

[ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: cram ]


Tom Cram
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tcram@dbxpro.com

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cram,

I know where 'crafty1', & that guy 'Quantum' can be found. Look over here:

http://www.prosoundweb.com/recpit/

I should start an internet P.I. service!

Threshold.

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Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk:
oh shit, is this REALLY the infamous CLA?!?

if so i have wanted to tell you as a FAN of music, QUIT FUCKING UP MY FAVORITE BANDS MIXES! they sound so freaking cookie cutter, yeah the ONE SOUND you get sounds great but damn, vary it a little bit [and im not talking from artist to artist]. its always like all on all the time. i feel like im listening to the radio when i listen to your cd's, and i HATE the radio, feels like one giant advertisement... maybe the artists are to blame with their recent releases being so boring.



I'm sure CLA, like any mixer, always has many circumstances which affect the final outcome of the mix...such as:

1. What's recorded on tape. If producers are making cookie cutter records with cookie cutter songs, vocals and arrangements, it's not that easy for the mixer to change that (and even if he tries, he sometimes runs up against the next points).

2. What does the producer want to hear...a really individualistic mix or something that he/she knows will be successful at radio (meaning that it sounds like other things already out there). In my experience, most of the time, it's the latter.

3. What does the label want to hear? Are we sure that they're looking for artists with individual style or are they looking for more of what's on the radio.

It's great when artists of great individualistic style pop through the system (Eminem, Dixie Chicks, Lauryn Hill, Radiohead, etc). But all too often, whether it's in rock, hiphop, country...there are just too many similar sounding records. I'm sure when Hendrix went in to do his first record, the thinking was "let's make something that doesn't sound ANYTHING like what's out there". Certainly, that line of thinking is not all that prevalent these days.

So, the mixer faces all sorts of obstacles in trying to assert his/her vision. What's that phrase "don't blame the messenger"?

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cram,

Responding to your post:

'Anyone else notice that once GM ixnayed the fake CLA, Crafty1 is also suddenly nowhere to be found? Methinks they were one and the same.'

What! You think they are the same person? Now how's that figure. 'clamix' seems like he totally hates 'crafty1' If that's true('clamix', & 'crafty1' are the same person) then
'crafty1' really needs to go see a psychiatrist, & bad. And 'crafty' did post the following:


'In closing I'd like to state that I will not stoop to pettiness, only clarify. The kind of clarity you'll get when working on a AMS-Neve/88R!'


Maybe he was serious(about possibly leaving), & as a 'seer' saw all of this coming(verbal mudslinging/barbrawling as 'crafty1' calls it). You gotta admit things are getting kinda ('ghetto'/'trailer park')ish around here. Especially 'johnnyvn', 'robmix', & 'clamix'! You'd think these guys('johnnyvn', 'robmix', & 'clamix') would be above that kind of activity working at the level they're supposed to be at. Just my 2 cents again.

DJ Erupt

[ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: DJ Erupt ]

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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Erupt:
robmix,

Responding to your post:

"CLA is the "go to guy" for most of the rock mixes......"

He (clamix) could actually be part of the reason why Hip-Hop/R&B is topping the 'Hot 100' charts more so instead of Rock singles. Rock these days sounds so much the same. I agree with 'alphajerk' in this area. This could be why 'clamix' seems jealous, because the genre 'crafty1' seems to work within is more popular than the genre'clamix' works within? And I kinda agree with you about 'crafty1' not posting credits. But then again people have been ragging on 'crafty' for being arrogant. He appologized for appearing that way(arrogant). So if he posted credits would you, & everybody here think he was insincere(in his apology of appearing arrogant), call him arrogant once again, or just be satisfied with his credentials (crafty's) if what he says pans out. Looks like 'crafty' is in a lose-lose situation here. He looses if credits are posted. He looses if credits don't get posted. I'm glad I don't have to deal with pacifing you guys(record industry heavyweights). Sheesh! If I had to work with guys like 'clamix'(the way he appears to be) I'd quit doing music because it probably would'nt be fun anymore.

DJ Erupt.

P.S.:If they've(Image Recording)got Pro Tools it's not listed on their web-site. And one question mind you? Are you, & 'clamix' best friends, or something? I saw his name on your web-site. Makes me think you would be kind of biased towards 'clamix', & against 'crafty1'? Did 'crafty', & some of his boys beat you guys('clamix', & you 'robmix' )out of a record deal somewhere along the line? Just my humble observation.

[ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: DJ Erupt ]



You think rock is not doing well right now ? You must be kidding - The Calling, Michelle Branch, POD, Linkin Park, Puddle of Mud, Nickleback, etc, etc. are all ruling the charts, radio play and MTV. I don't think CLA appeared jealous at all, he was simply addressing Crafty, who's throwing out a lot of names to justify his position yet won't even tell anyone who he is. To say that the genre Crafty works with is more popular than anything else is a joke as we have no idea who or what Crafty is. Credits certainly don't give anyone an excuse to be arrogant but they do let people know from what background you come from, why you may have developed certain opinions about gear and studios and whether or not you're just blowing it out your ass. When GM says he doesn't like a microphone we all pay a bit more attention than some guy who says Neumann's suck because it didn't sound
good on his cassette four track. Credits just give us some insight into the experience level of the poster.

I'm not some heavyweight, just an engineer who tries to tell it like it is based on experience, not hearsay.

Rob

P.S. I would imagine that the Image website is not updated regularly, in all honesty they are booked about 99% of the time. In other words they have no need to advertise and actively solicit clients. And yes I was CLA's assistant for a bit. So I may be biased, but I can't be biased against Crafty as we have no idea who the friggin' guy is.


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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Erupt:

Maybe he was serious(about possibly leaving), & as a 'seer' saw all of this coming(verbal mudslinging/barbrawling as 'crafty1' calls it). You gotta admit things are getting kinda ('ghetto'/'trailer park')ish around here. Especially 'johnnyvn', 'robmix', & 'clamix'! You'd think these guys('johnnyvn', 'robmix', & 'clamix') would be above that kind of activity working at the level they're supposed to be at. Just my 2 cents again.

DJ Erupt

[ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: DJ Erupt ]



Generally I try to stay out of the pissing matches. I originally posted in this thread to correct some gross errors in Crafty's posts (if you check out my first post in this thread it's pretty mellow and states the facts as I know them). But it got more and more out of hand due to Crafty's arrogance. Again I really try to help people and post based on my experience, not random opinion or hearsay.

Rob

[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: robmix ]


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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Erupt:
cram,


Maybe he was serious(about possibly leaving), & as a 'seer' saw all of this coming(verbal mudslinging/barbrawling as 'crafty1' calls it). You gotta admit things are getting kinda ('ghetto'/'trailer park')ish around here. Especially 'johnnyvn', 'robmix', & 'clamix'! You'd think these guys('johnnyvn', 'robmix', & 'clamix') would be above that kind of activity working at the level they're supposed to be at. Just my 2 cents again.

DJ Erupt

[ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: DJ Erupt ]


"Check this link out! Will the SSL-9000J remain the king of the jungle in the realm of high-end recording consoles,
or no? Readers, & posters check thislink out, & ponder for yourselves. From the posts here it looks as though the AMS-Neve - 88R is the real king of high-end consoles but has not yet come forward to claim the crown!"

"...but in the large format console race it looks like there are only 3 contenders. The 88R, 9098i, & 9000J."

"if you don't consider Conway, & The Village, & Air Studios in the UK major studios then you must not know too much about the recording industry. By the way
Studios 301 in Australia is the largest or at least best known studio on that continent. You guys need to get your
facts straight."

"My bet is that in the next 7 years there will be a sales race between the 88R, & the 9K like there was between the SSL/4K, & Neve/VR consoles. And this 'will' happen
in major studios. We can very well see that happen again with the 88R coming on the scene. The great VR invasion started on the west coast, & then moved east. I see the same pattern forming."


Ah, some of my favorite Crafty1 comments. Yeah, even at my level, you gotta straighten the facts out now and then. Neve has made some GREAT stuff in their day. Perhaps the 88R is a great piece (haven't tried it yet myself). But still, there was NO VR invasion. And no, it didn't move from west to east. It started nowhere and went nowhere (for the most part). Anyone who's actually working in the industry who thinks that is just plain hitting the hootie a little too hard.

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johnnyvn,

'crafty1' posted:

"My bet is that in the next 7 years there will be a sales race between the 88R, & the 9K like there was between the SSL/4K, & Neve/VR consoles. And this 'will' happen
in major studios. We can very well see that happen again with the 88R coming on the scene. The great VR invasion started on the west coast, & then moved east. I see the same pattern forming."

Let's see if he's right. Let's take the number of 88R's that AMS-Neve installs in the next 12 months, & compare it to how many XL9000K's SSL installs in the same time period starting at 2/5/02(supposed XL9000K release date). I personally think that SSL will win the race. But, what if it winds up being close? I'll personally try to keep tally by what I observe on the internet, & in other media.

Threshold.

[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: Threshold ]

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robmix,

You posted:

"You think rock is not doing well right now ? You must be kidding - The Calling, Michelle Branch, POD, Linkin Park, Puddle of Mud, Nickleback, etc, etc. are all ruling the charts, radio play and MTV."

Uh, I think you might be wrong here. I just looked at 'Billboards' 'Hot 100' chart for this week(issue date 2/16/02), & at least 10 of the singles in the top 20 slots were Hip-Hop/R&B tracks.

They are:

#1-You Got It Bad/Usher
#3-Always On Time/Ja Rule featuring Ashanti
#4-Ain't It Funny/Jennifer Lopez featuring Ja Rule
#9-A Womans Worth/Alicia Keys
#12-What About Us/Brandy
#13-7 Days/Craig David
#14-Family Affair/Mary J. Blige
#15-No More Drama/Mary J. Blige
#17-Butterflies/Michael Jackson
#18-Roll Out/Ludacris

That's 50% of the top 20 attributed to Hip/R&B alone with the other 50% split up between Rock, Pop, & Country artists. I think 'DJ Erupt' has a point there just based upon the numbers. Maybe he should know being that he's supposed to be a DJ, & all that. Just trying to be objective here.

Threshold.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Threshold:
johnnyvn,


Let's see if he's right. Let's take the number of 88R's that AMS-Neve has installed in the (say 17 months, or so) since it was introduced, & compare it to how many XL9000K's SSL will install in the next 17 months starting on 2/5/02. I personally think that SSL will win the race. But, what if it winds up being close?

Threshold.

[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: Threshold ]


That's what is so funny about this Crafty/DJ Erupt guy. He's even got you believing that the 88R is going to keep pace with the XL9000K! Of course, you're probably the same guy under a different name anyway. Well, hey, I'm on for that bet and let's keep in mind that SSL has already announced the sale of THREE of those desks (1 at Larrabee and 2 at Hit Factory) and the damned thing ain't even out yet.

And while you're checking Robmix's figures on HH vs Rock (Rob and I love both of those great formats anyway, so who cares?)...why not check the production charts and see how many records are mixed on SSL's vs Neve's. This should be a fair test, given that the Neve company has been at this for at least 20 years more than SSL. Let us know your findings...

Again, for the record, I am not comparing the sound quality of the two desks. A good engineer should be able to get busy on either. I'm just reporting the realities of market share.

Oh and in regards to your slanted HH vs Rock argument, let's also examine the top 20 albums in the U.S. this week.

#2 Creed (5 Million)
#3 Linkin Park (6 Million)
#4 Ludacris (1 Million)
#5 Nickelback (3 Million)
#6 Ja Rule (2 Million)
#7 Nas (1 Million)
#8 Usher (3 Million)
#9 Pink (don't tell me "Party" is a HH track!)
#12 Alicia Keys (4 Million..you go, AK!)
#14 No Doubt (1 Million, but is this rock?)
#16 P.O.D. (1 Million)
#17 Puddle of Mudd (1 Million)
#19 Outkast (1 Million)


OK...let's see:

Rock (w/o No Doubt) = 16 Million
HH = 11 Million

Enuff with the "rock is dead!" already!


J

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johnnyvn,

So you think 'crafty1' is 'DJ Erupt', & possibly me? You're seeming a little paranoid by my observations right about now. But I'll accept your suggestion as a hypothesis(not a very solid one though) regarding 'crafty1', & 'DJ Erupt', not including me. Now back to the 'Billboard' charts. If you're going to quote stuff about record sales vs. chart position then you should include how long each album has been on the charts. 'Linkin Park' is getting close to being a year, & 1/2 old. Lets see how many units those same Hip-R&B albums have sold a year from now Be a little more objective will you. And, I have one correction to make. 'Linkin Park' sold 7 million units, & not 6 million units. This should prove to you that I'm trying look at things in a fair perspective.

Threshold

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Posters,

johnnyvn says:

'That's what is so funny about this Crafty/DJ Erupt guy. He's even got you believing that the 88R is going to keep pace with the XL9000K! Of course, you're probably the same guy under a different name anyway. Well, hey, I'm on for that bet and let's keep in mind that SSL has already announced the sale of THREE of those desks (1 at Larrabee and 2 at Hit Factory) and the damned thing ain't even out yet.'

'johnnyvn' must be having nightmares about 'crafty1'. His paranoia is now bordering on delusional. Now everybody other than 'gm', 'robmix', 'clamix', & himself('johnnyvn') is 'crafty1'. If 'crafty1' is still watching this post he/she's bursting at the seams in laughter over this. Man this forum is scandalous!

Threshold.

[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: Threshold ]

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Quote:
Originally posted by Threshold:
johnnyvn,

So you think 'crafty1' is 'DJ Erupt', & possibly me? You're seeming a little paranoid by my observations right about now. But I'll accept your suggestion as a hypothesis(not a very solid one though) regarding 'crafty1', & 'DJ Erupt', not including me. Now back to the 'Billboard' charts. If you're going to quote stuff about record sales vs. chart position then you should include how long each album has been on the charts. 'Linkin Park' is getting close to being a year, & 1/2 old. Lets see how many units those same Hip-R&B albums have sold a year from now Be a little more objective will you. And, I have one correction to make. 'Linkin Park' sold 7 million units, & not 6 million units. This should prove to you that I'm trying look at things in a fair perspective.

Threshold


To be fair to all, I took my figures from this week's Billboard (2/9/02), where Linkin Park is still listed as 6 Million. For that matter, POD is at 2 Million (at least according to the 2xPlatinum album on my wall), but still listed as 1 million, so I gave you that one, too.

In regards to chart length, sorry, but you're kind of off base here, too...if what you're saying is so true (that HH rules the charts), then last year's big HH acts would still be well represented on the charts like Linkin Park is today (after 66 weeks...still at number 2). Duh.

Taken another way...Alicia Keys, who is HipHop's highest charting album today, sold 4 million in 31 weeks. Creed only took 10 weeks to hit 5 million. Rock is dead?

Who cares anyway that your math and/or logic skills still need development. Both formats are great music!

"Above The Threshold"

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And Crafty/erupt/threshold,

Just so you don't think I'm dissing HH:

Dre should be knighted for "Nothing but a G thing", Eminem and MJB's wicked "family affair" (did he do Gin and Juice, too?)

Timbaland is the bomb, although his own T and Magoo records kind of sucked...not nearly as good Pony, One in a Million, Can We, the Rain and his other great stuff.

Can't forget Nelly. GREAT records with killer singles. Everyone of them.

Lauryn Hill. Shiiiiiittttt. Sang, girl!

Oopsss.almost forgot Jay Z. Again, just great stuff.

Biggie. One of the greatest rappers I ever worked with. R.I.P.

How bout "jus kickin it" and "jump"? Dallas Austin does ok, too, even if he did borrow a bit from H.O.P. (Speakin' of HOP, damn, Lethal's doin good now, eh?, and I loved Everlast's "what it's like".

Cypress Hill...ok, B-Real is great. They repeat themselves a bit, but I still love "Dr. Greenthumb".

Well, I could go on and on...don't get me started or I'll talk about music all day long...

Keep checkin those sales figures...

J

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