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Joined: Jun 2000
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If you don't mind, I would like to get some
starting EQ setting suggestions for
Individual drums;points I can easily start from and tweak from there. If you could
just give frequency or range & approx raise
or cut of level(db), that would be great.
I know this is also a loaded question,
but just give me what you grab for first
then I'll run with it. The whole DAW & software processing, is just not as easy as grabbing knobs, It takes some getting used to, but I'm committed to getting it wired. It's not that I don't think old tube & analog gear smokes, it does indeed. I just would like to push some new ground, to see what happens. BTW, do you use any of the Waves EQ & Comp stuff, or are there other plugs you would recommend. Also here are the size of the drums if this matters:
Snare 5 1/2 x 14(tuned tight top & bottom)
toms 10 x10 & 12X10 & 14x14( loose tension)
kick 22x16 ( down pillow inside, resting
1/4 of the way up batter head-heads
loose -6in. hole off center on front-
mike(AT25pro) inside 5 to 6 in. away
about 15-20 degrees off center
Also overheads, I use 2 large diaphram condensers(audix cx111) a few feet apart up over my shoulders

I know you are extremely busy, and I appreciate any and all respones

Thank You so much!
JT

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Dear JT,

I would dearly love to help you out here, but you're asking for a career's worth of experience in music and recording to be diluted into "+2dB at 5kHz. To be honest, it's a whole book.

Let me advise you to start with the music and let the song tell you what to do. It's impractical to consider the drums out of the context of the entire presentation; for instance, you'd want to know alot about the song and, say, the bass line before you approached the kick drum. Jazz cymbals are night and day different from "Rage Against the Machine" drum sounds.

I've pretty recently done a mic and gear workup several times on this list; you can check them out. I almost always record with the same basic gear, and then use a little bit of this and that after stuff is cut; yes, I'm using some Waves stuff on the thing I'm mixing right now.

Why don't you give us some idea of the thing you're going to do, and let's narrow the scope of the question?

George


George Massenburg

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Hey George,

Sorry for the vague question, but maybe I can narrow the playing field. I do primarily
alternative rock & rock material, and I'm a huge fan of Matt chamberlin's sound on Tori Amos'& Fiona Apple'cd's(any). Also, Josh Freeze' sound on the only New Radicals disc, as well as his sound on the new A Perfect Circle cd and last but not least the sound on the latest Natalie Merchant disc. These
sounds are very "realistic" for lack of a better term. I'll start with this if we need to narrow, I will do so. Another quick side question would be about where the overheads would end up in sounds like these:
1)up high or down low to the kit
2)near coincident , or stereo spread(a few feet apart, and in the case of down low, where in relation to cymbals in standard five piece setup.

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Anyone? Anyone?

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Try this link - this site has some pretty good basic info and it might get you off to a good start. Drums are tricky - biggest component to good sound is THE DRUMMER!!!! Then the Drums, then the engineer, then the mics, etc.

Also look at the Shure WEB Site - they have a mic techniques guide that might help you out.
http://homerecording.about.com/musicperf...m%2Dsounds.html


Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital
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Thanks steve!!

I checked out the link, and it's okay for
beginners, let me say that I have already
been doing band demos for a year, on my
PC based DAW, and have had good success with
clients so far, but I have been at a stand-still with my drum sound lately and was just
looking for a little help to maybe get me over some hurdles. I know(and have been told), that the sounds on my demos are almost CD ready, in fact one may be released
very soon as the bands first official release. If I told you what little equipment
I did use you wouldn't believe it. I am
a firm believer you can make anything work
with the right tweaking. I was hoping for
experienced ears to help me out of this
slump.
Thanks to all responses,
JT

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Dear Jetoney,

Sorry to not post some kind of response - I've been mixing a new (and really great) Jennifer Warnes thing day and night, meanwhile trying to figure out what the heck I can write to you.

You know, I am simply overwhelmed with the scope of your question. To any one of your issues there are hundreds of possibilites. Frankly, I just can't see your making much headway with neither experience nor equipment. I suppose luck has something to do with it, but it sounds like it's not on your side just yet. I hope I'm wrong.

It's sort-of your job to start sorting through ideas and pieces of technology, seeing what blows your skirt up.

You know, the way most cats start out in this business is to get a job in a studio looking over an engineer's shoulders for 3 or 4 years to see what he does. Whether or not he uses the same tools and ideas is up to him, but at least with that beginning he can see the size of the job.

Good luck.

[This message has been edited by gm (edited 06-29-2000).]


George Massenburg

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Quote:
Originally posted by jetoney@hotmail.com:
Thanks steve!!

I checked out the link, and it's okay for
beginners, let me say that I have already
been doing band demos for a year, on my
PC based DAW, and have had good success with
clients so far, but I have been at a stand-still with my drum sound lately JT


I think GM is right - it would be impossible to give specific ideas without knowing more about what you are doing that you don't like - is it the room the drums are in, the drums themselves, the equipment - what are you using?

You can search on this post for drums and find dozens of tips from GM and others on more specific drum recording techniques.

But, I would say get a drummer ( unless you have a kit and can play yourself) who is into getting good sound on tape and work with him for awhile alone trying different variations of what was in that guide I pointed you to until you find a sound you like. Try some other drummers too if you can - you may be surprised at how much control they have over your results

Try really close mics and then move them back a bit for more room sound. Try low O/H vs high vs XY and listen to how it sounds and choose the one you like. I've been using an MS mic for O/H for awhile and have been really happy with it. If you don't have lots of equipment - enough mics for every drum, or mics like most people are using like 57s, 421s, 112s, etc., then at some point you may be stuck getting close to the sound of those groups you mentioned.

I saw on Nichols' forum someone asking how he got that amazing snare sound on the latest Steely Dan - a 57 on top - probably what you and a million other peopl are doing. Why does it sound special? Well, that's the trick.

The things you have control over that matter are Drummer, Drums, Room, Equipment. All the band's you metioned probably made sure all of those were taken care of.

If your room sux, you can use close micing to minimize it and use some verb later to add back in a room you like. The other stuff, you gotta deal with.

A couple of days - you and the drummer alone in the studio - that's what I suggest. Hire a really GREAT drummer if you don't know one who'll do it for free. It will probably be worth the investment. Good luck.

[This message has been edited by stevepow (edited 06-29-2000).]


Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital
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Thanks for the attempt guys, always
appreciated. I have narrowed down my hurdles
to mic pre's(I use a 1604vlz pro-for now)&
room. I actually do play the drums, guitar bass,& sing(lead & backing vocals). I do, & have done lots of studio & live work. Here
is what I've come up with:
A)I am getting better sound than any of the local studios I've worked at with the exception of two- One is MCA publishing(API
console-good engineer-great room)the other
is Studio One(excuse me if I get this wrong,
VAC RAC tube pre's(16 channels)-okay engineer
-unbelievable room- great old mike collection)Again, that I have worked at.
B) The reason I'm getting good sound, is because I have been able to fiddle around with everything until I get it to where I
want-with no time constraint(very cool), but
I now know after this recent demo project at
MCA, that API consoles kick ass for drums &
so does their room.

I know some mics are better than others but, I believe it can be done with 57's, small
condenser for hat, and a couple of large or small condensers for OH's. The other thing is, that I believe most local studio engineers ears are shot in one way or another. It has got to be hard recording & mixing all these bands 10 & 12 hours a day
at loud volumes(which is what most guys do).
Anyways, trying to record yourself is a pain
in the ass, because your to close to the source, but I'm getting there. I will continue down the path until I get there,
and the fact is, I actually enjoy the chase.

Thanks to all,
JT

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fortunately, i used to live with a drummer with a studio in the house, we used to sit there for hours while he played and i messed with the mics. i learned more from that than anything else. and thats probably where most of my intuition comes from when miking drums. i rarely think about it now, feels more like breathing.

does anyone do the one ear sound source test for drums??? i find it better to just stand there with headphones, preferably with closed cups to reject more acoustic sound and move the mic around. i can usually find a good sweet spot or a couple that way and commit to one, go into the control room, listen, check the other.

i do find that if the drumset sounds good, you pretty much have to be a moron to not get a good sound. getting a great sound is where the talent or art of it is.


alphajerk
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"if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson

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