Have to decide Logic Pro or Ableton live for my new Fantom 8

[videorov]

I read that its easier to transfer song tracks over to Pro Tools if you are using Logic Pro. I have Pro Tools and use it sometimes.

I wonder which Mac to buy if I go with Logic Pro that doesn't cost to much and will work ok with it. I have not used Apple computers in while but I use to so I can learn again if I go that way.

Is Logic Pro easier to use with the Fantom 8 ? Looks like it might be from the videos I have watched. To bad they don't support protools inside the Fantom 8, maybe in the future.

I think I might understand the layout a little better with Logic Pro X since I have been using Protools.

[ElmerJFudd]

It doesn"t really matter which DAW one uses - in the case of software that"s in heavy use like Ableton, Logic, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc. they will all offer tools to achieve what you are trying to do and there will be a ton of tutorials on YouTube and forums for questions. If you are using a Mac, Logic Pro X is always an excellent choice since it is priced aggressively for Mac users and full content - loops, sampled instruments, synths, modeled instruments, FX, etc. are all included as part of the purchase.

 

Ableton Live built a user base rapidly with their feature set that focused on looped based music, time stretching, tempo synced fx, and a user interface and features that work well for loop based production as a live act. It"s very popular with DJ/Producer/Musicians. Logic and others have begun copying these features. They all copy one another as new features and ideas become popular.

 

Roland has DAW control support in their Workstation for all the big DAWs.

[Docbop]

[video:youtube]

[videorov]

One thing with Ableton is I can run it from a cheaper PC even a desktop if I want to have a large monitor which I have two extra ones sitting around here right now. I will have to look at some PC to run it.

What PC are you using to run it or maybe a Mac.

I see the spec for Windows

Windows 10 (Build 1909 and later)

Intel® Core⢠i5 processor or an AMD multi-core processor.

8 GB RAM

1366x768 display resolution

ASIO compatible audio hardware for Link support (also recommended for optimal audio performance)

Access to an internet connection for authorizing Live (for downloading additional content and updating Live, a fast internet connection is recommended)

Approximately 3 GB disk space on the system drive for the basic installation (8 GB free disk space recommended)

Up to 76 GB disk space for additionally available sound content

 

I like the fact Windows machines are cheaper and you get more speed, ram and storage drive space for less money. What you save in hardware will by the software

I did see where Apple was including Logic Pro and Final Cut on some apple machines as a bundle,,, I haven't found any deals like that for Black Friday.

 

I have run Protools 8 on a Windows system like this for years. Im just recording tracks of my playing and playing around with them in software sometimes.

 

 

I wonder if this would be ok and would interface with the Fantom 8 ok.

HP 8300 Elite Small Form Factor Desktop Computer, Intel Core i5-3470 3.2GHz Quad-Core, 8GB RAM, 500GB SATA, Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, USB 3.0, Display Port

[obxa]

Not sure what types of tracks you need to run. I use both Daws.

 

I run Ableton every Sunday for Worship services, but do it in way that it wasn't fully intended. Totally in session view. Basically as a jukebox for a 4 -5 song set that can easily go from one song to the next controlled by an external remote keypad. The entire set is loaded at once. I don't use the loop stuff other than static click/metronome and shaker stuff. The rest are linear tracks. I do have a bunch of keypresses that let me mute parts as needed. E..G: If our singer gets off the track, I'm able to mute parts but leave the click. I'm sure you could easily do similar with your Roland.

 

I create and edit my content in Logic. Only because I've used it for so long and I'm quicker on it. Abelton exceeds in importing files (even the wonky timed ones) and getting things to line up,. As Videorov mentioned, it will run also on PC. I use it on an older Macbook air, and have only choked it on some really dense tracks. Logic, (and even Mainstage) have gotten better as a live player, but I find Abelton much leaner and efficient for this purpose. Plus, you can get Abelton Intro cheap, or possibly free as part of most interface packages. Check Ebay for folks selling legit licenses they got as part of a promo.

 

You'd simply drag your Pro tools stems into Abelton, warp them - and call it a day.

 

I don't use tracks on my bar/wedding/corporate gigs; just simple click. But if I did, I'd use Live. That said, lots of folks use Pro-tools

 

Here are two videos that better explain, they're catered towards worship stuff so please don't be put off by that. They explain this method better than most other tutorials I've found.

 

[jeffincltnc]

Lots of YouTube content on tight integration between Fantom and Logic Pro X. I use Fantom 8 + Logic Pro X (along with the NI Komplete Kontrol system in LPX) for my home production.

 

[videorov]

I have run Protools 8 on a Windows system like this for years. Im just recording tracks of my playing and playing around with them in software sometimes.

 

 

I wonder if this would be ok and would interface with the Fantom 8 ok.

HP 8300 Elite Small Form Factor Desktop Computer, Intel Core i5-3470 3.2GHz Quad-Core, 8GB RAM, 500GB SATA, Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, USB 3.0, Display Port

This system only cost $140 and I have nice flat screen monitors I could use on it. Maybe some model with a graphics card if that would help.

I use a Avid Mbox to come from the Mackie mixer 16 channel that go to my JBL powered speakers. From the MBox I go to the Protools.

Im going to run the Fantom to the Mackie like I use to run a Kronos. I never had a computer hooked to the Kronos.

 

I thought I would hook a computer to the Fantom 8 since its made it easy to do that now.

[KuruPrionz]

I like the fact Windows machines are cheaper and you get more speed, ram and storage drive space for less money. What you save in hardware will by the software

I did see where Apple was including Logic Pro and Final Cut on some apple machines as a bundle,,, I haven't found any deals like that for Black Friday.

 

 

Check the speed tests comparing an M1 Mac with contemporary PCs. You may be surprised.

I recently got an Apple refurb M1 Mac Mini with 16gb RAM and 512gb SSD for my studio and it is FAST. Was under $1,000 with tax and delivery, I've got it hooked up to a 27" monitor. You do need an Apple keyboard but a PC mouse should work, I use one. I've found Apple keyboards at Goodwill for $10-12 that work fine.

 

I'm running Waveform Pro but you could run both Logic Pro and Ableton - there is plenty of room on the hard drive.

[videorov]

This gaming machine should handle it for $1000

 

https://www.amazon.com/Graphics-3200MHz-Windows-Desktop-Computer/dp/B08KHPF1W8/ref=rvi_25/141-0122924-5488507?pd_rd_w=4Suu5&pf_rd_p=c0296674-5a83-4ad6-b035-0702d2b359df&pf_rd_r=T6Q45XPYXTTF21PR2DPV&pd_rd_r=c79c9ea7-1eee-460a-931a-801a663f0ab1&pd_rd_wg=Tcilc&pd_rd_i=B08KHPF1W8&th=1

 

CUK Mantis Custom Gamer PC (AMD Ryzen 7 with Radeon Graphics, 32GB 3200MHz DDR4 RAM, 512GB NVMe SSD + 2TB HDD, AC WiFi, Windows 11 Home) Tower Gaming Desktop Computer

 

I could also put my Pro Tools over on it aswell. Plenty of storage. Along with Abelton Live

 

 

I run another windows machine for my Amplitube 5 for all my guitar stuff. I mic in my Acoustic guitars Martins etc.

[jeffincltnc]

To the original question, though, the integration between Fantom and Logic Pro X is deeper and integrated into Fantom beyond just MIDI control and transport control. Logic Pro X (and Mainstage data) are actually represented in the touchscreen view and integrated into the ergonomics of Fantom, which is deeper and a richer integration experience from what is being shown with Ableton.

[videorov]

That is important and it seems to be more integrated with the controls. Not sure if Ableton will ever be like that in the future. Glad you point that out. That will be a a factor I have to keep in mind. Thanks for your input.

I wonder if Ableton has any plans to have the same type of control?

 

I did read also that Logic Pro lets you transfer tracks over to ProTools pretty easy all at once.

But Apple always has issues with connectors that change or don't have enough of. Looks like just one USB is needed for control with the Fantom 8. But in the future If I need another output or inputs will I run into a problem using

a Mac.

[yamahaahamay]

I wonder if this would be ok and would interface with the Fantom 8 ok.

HP 8300 Elite Small Form Factor Desktop Computer, Intel Core i5-3470 3.2GHz Quad-Core, 8GB RAM, 500GB SATA, Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, USB 3.0, Display Port

 

Whatever you do, don't buy a computer with a hard disk drive (HDD), which seems to be the case with this one. A solid state drive (SSD) is the modern standard, and will be much, much faster.

[videorov]

OK good point. Cyber special going on and would be a good time to buy.

[Stokely]

If you buy a new mac right now, you will get the Monterey OS, and a fair number of people are reporting issues including with many hard drives. My main problem has been 3rd party plugins, some of which are now broken (mostly older ones I wasn't using fortunately). It would be worth trying to verify that this Fantom functionality works with it. I'm sure eventually it will all be sorted out but Apple like everyone else seems to release things that are half-baked.

 

As far as connectors, my 2015 macbook pro has 4 usb c connections, and one of them has about 8 things (including an audio interface) connected to it via a hub. I use one other one for an external monitor. No issues in that regard. The new ones have gone back to a variety of connectors.

 

I was glad to see my wife's new MBP (of which I'm jealous) is surprisingly beefy. It's as thick as the older ones with a cd drive. Mine is razor thin, it's actually a pain to pick up or find the lid on it (usually it's closed in any case). The new ones have a far better keyboard than my horrible butterfly keyboard.

 

I have used Dos, win 3.1, win xp and macs for music, I've got no loyalty other than what I like at the moment. That happens to be a mac with logic pro right now, but I've used Ableton in the past and liked it as well. Both DAWs come with a lot of instruments and fx to get you going.

 

As far as transferring stuff back and forth between LPX and Protools...not so sure about that. My friend and I do collaboration and he has PT, albeit an old version--and our method of exchange is to send midi and/or audio files (wav) via cloud services (amazon or google drive, anything will work). I don't know that there's anything else that would be fancier, and this method could be used with any DAW. If there's some way that the two softwares can read each others projects I'd be interested to know about it, as he's going to be upgrading his computer and PT soon!

[videorov]

I found this Exporting from Ableton for Mixing in Pro Tools

 

 

 

I hear in the Macworld you have to know about the Catalina OS when buying people have run into problems. That is what worries me about Apple.

[jeffincltnc]

This thread is still missing the question -- you have a completely unified workflow between Fantom and Logic Pro X that you do not have with any other DAW. Build 16 tracks in Fantom and you can export the entire project into LPX with each track independetly. You can mix down settings in LPX on the Fantom. Your LPX and Mainstage states are in front of you on the Fantom touchscreen display. No, this is not something you can do with Fantom and Ableton, ProTools or any other DAW besides LPX because it's developed into the Fantom OS.

[videorov]

OH OK did not know that.

Guess I need to find a deal on a MackBook Pro I see there is a Mini too which you need monitor and keyboard with the mini, I have monitors.

[KuruPrionz]

OH OK did not know that.

Guess I need to find a deal on a MackBook Pro I see there is a Mini too which you need monitor and keyboard with the mini, I have monitors.

 

I would recommend checking the Apple refurbished page. They have factory refurbished Macs - laptops, minis, iMacs etc.

My Mac Mini came with Big Sur installed and yes it will leave your 32 bit software behind but anything 64 bit should work. There is a transition software to allow older 64 bit programs to work on an M1 chip. I use it for some of my stuff, it's fine.

 

More developers are updating their software to Apple Silicon, then it runs much faster than previous Macs, even ones with lots more RAM. So far 16gb seems to be the most an M1 chip has but mine rips along nicely. It certainly outpaces the 2014 MacBookPro I was using with 16gb of RAM, leaves it in the dust to be honest.

 

The big question is - what can the Fantom use successfully? Best way to find out is to contact the manufacturer. Next best way is to enter your question into a search engine and add the word "forum".

This thread will probably come up but others may also appear and somebody may be able to answer all of your questions.

It's a tricky one with the recent changes but the M1 chip is the beginning of a new, faster phase in chip design.

 

Make sure the Fantom is compatible or capable of being compatible with a firmware update and if the firmware is not available yet make sure they are committed to work on that. Otherwise you'll need to run an older Mac system to get all the funs with Logic Pro X.

 

You don't want to buy yourself into a boondoggle!!!

[videorov]

Im so use to using Windows I don't think I want to go back to Apple stuff. Will see what comes out in the future to work with the Fantom 8. I hate to buy into the Apple thing and their crazy prices that really are not worth it. I have used Windows for video

editing for years and for 3 D graphics animations.

[videorov]

I won't buy Apple because the things they do like their deal with CHINA now. They should invest in America so they can keep their crap.

[Docbop]

I won't buy Apple because the things they do like their deal with CHINA now. They should invest in America so they can keep their crap.

 

That deal was struck about five years ago and similar to deals they have done with other large companies with large interests in China. India has done same thing going even further back. What generates this is big US countries hiring so many Chinese and India's college grads and bringing them to the US to work. Those countries have told big US companies to build offices in their countries and quit exporting so many of our young professionals.

[KuruPrionz]

I won't buy Apple because the things they do like their deal with CHINA now. They should invest in America so they can keep their crap.

 

You may find a Windows computer that isn't made overseas but it is unlikely. The monitors you mentioned earlier are most likely made overseas.

Many of the parts to automobiles you may own were made overseas, even if the car company is based in the United States.

 

I could go on but I won't. Your comment is cherry-picking a worldwide move to less expensive labor.

 

Don't worry, soon enough most factory labor will be done by robots and 3-D printers, then it will be practical to manufacture items in the US again since they won't need human workers to any great extent. And no, I am not exaggerating.