Roland boutique in a live setting,,

[TommyS]

Hi to all,, might make a move on the JD 08,,, anyone use these modules live? Thanx

[Ken Beaumont]

I have used the D-05 live without issue. I used it for a couple of tunes. I just had to by a 1/8" TRS to 1/4" TS 'Y' cable and controlled it with a single midi cable from my SP6. And I made sure the batteries were good.

Worked perfectly.

[eric]

I tried and didn't like it. I will admit that I didn't try too hard as the overall form factor didn't translate to pro gigs for me.

 

The mini cable is an annoyance and there's not a good way to travel and protect the unit in a way that translates to repeatable gigging. If there was a way to rack mount them, I'd probably try harder.

 

Over the years, I've owned a couple of the JP-08s and a D-05, which have been sold long ago. I have a TR-08 in my music room that I use occasionally.

 

I am inspired by the JX-08 to give these another try, though I suspect it will be for home use only.

[ProfD]

I tried and didn't like it. I will admit that I didn't try too hard as the overall form factor didn't translate to pro gigs for me.

 

Over the years, I've owned a couple of the JP-08s and a D-05, which have been sold long ago. I have a TR-08 in my music room that I use occasionally.

 

I am inspired by the JX-08 to give these another try, though I suspect it will be for home use only.

IMO, these boxes scratch the itch we might have for the gear of yesterday. They are cool and fun to play.

 

However, also IMO, those same boxes are impractical for one reason or another when it comes to heavy lifiting i.e. sound design and/or gigging. YMMV.

[Moonglow]

I was disappointed when I discovered how the polyphony limitations of the JU-06 adversely impacted playing string/pad sounds, so I never even tried it live. Too bad, because I thought the tone and chorus were spot-on.

[Konnector]

Well, at least they upped the polyphony on their two latest models. Four notes was never enough. Bad decision on Roland's part.

 

Don't forget your tweezers if you need to adjust those sliders!

[ProfD]

IMO, 8 notes should be minimum in a poly synth manufactured nowadays.

[TommyS]

Yeah,, I sold my JD800 years ago and regretted it,,, would like to get a reasonable facsimile in the JD08,,, might just do my programing then set it and forget it due to the physical layout of it,, sure is small,,, and those mini jacks/ cables put me off a little,,,

[AnotherScott]

Instead of laying the SE-02 down on a keyboard, I'd like to prop it up so I can see its controls "minimoog-style." If it were on a bottom tier board, just laying it flat might be fine, but since I want to use it on a top board, angling it would work better. I'm wondering what solutions people may have come up with for this. The obvious solution is Roland's own DK-01, but I don't have that much depth on the top board. I'm looking more for some kind of cradle that I could velcro in place, and slip the module into when needed... IOW, I don't need (nor have room for) a "horizontal position" mode for the holder. I'm seeing some possibilities on Etsy, and this one on ebay which might be the closest I've found so far,  but I'm looking for something even in excess of 45 degrees, and not so deep on the bottom. This on on etsy has an option for 50 degrees, but there's no photo of it. Has anyone here come up with a good solution for this kind of thing?

[niacin]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Instead of laying the SE-02 down on a keyboard, I'd like to prop it up so I can see its controls "minimoog-style." If it were on a bottom tier board, just laying it flat might be fine, but since I want to use it on a top board, angling it would work better. I'm wondering what solutions people may have come up with for this. The obvious solution is Roland's own DK-01, but I don't have that much depth on the top board. I'm looking more for some kind of cradle that I could velcro in place, and slip the module into when needed... IOW, I don't need (nor have room for) a "horizontal position" mode for the holder. I'm seeing some possibilities on Etsy, and this one on ebay which might be the closest I've found so far,  but I'm looking for something even in excess of 45 degrees, and not so deep on the bottom. This on on etsy has an option for 50 degrees, but there's no photo of it. Has anyone here come up with a good solution for this kind of thing?

There's a photo on that Etsy ad now.

[Doerfler]

3 hours ago, niacin said:

There's a photo on that Etsy ad now.

Yup, and shipping from Poland takes 90 days according to the seller, possibly less. Good thing it's not expensive in case things don't work out. 

[Aynsley Green]

On 11/24/2021 at 6:25 AM, eric said:

I tried and didn't like it. I will admit that I didn't try too hard as the overall form factor didn't translate to pro gigs for me.

 

The mini cable is an annoyance and there's not a good way to travel and protect the unit in a way that translates to repeatable gigging. If there was a way to rack mount them, I'd probably try harder.

 

Over the years, I've owned a couple of the JP-08s and a D-05, which have been sold long ago. I have a TR-08 in my music room that I use occasionally.

 

I am inspired by the JX-08 to give these another try, though I suspect it will be for home use only.

 

Have been cobbling together a Yamaha YC88 + Roland JX-08 rig, given the JX-08 fits so neatly on the YC88 music stand.
I transport the JX-08 in the cardboard box it came in - if it's good enough for international shipping, it's good enough for the back of my car. One could probably even wrap it in a towel and throw it in a gig bag - you don't need fancy Pelican cases for everything.

 

Program changes, octave shifts, controller messages all work the way you'd expect. Setting up splits or layers within the JX is fiddly though, due to the Roland 'a Performance must be made of two patches' concept, which has always been annoying. 

 

It works, has seamless sound switching, plenty of polyphony, and sounds great. It isn't too fiddly for basic things, but complex stuff is a bit of pain. That said, the samples on the YC are of a higher standard than the Nords, and layer/split with the JX's analog stuff you can coax some serious sounds out of this pairing. It's a bit of a fiddle, but it saves me having to bring a 2nd keyboard.

 

What is also neat is that you can get a short 1/8' to 1/4' cable off of Amazon (Hosa is the brand to go for, I have found), run it from the JX-08 into the YC88 inputs, power it from the USB out on the YC88, run the Midi cable, sit the JX on the music stand or on the negative space on the right side of the keyboard panel, and boom, you've got yourself an almost-built-in full-fat knobby 'Synth Section' for your YC, bringing it more-or-less on par with Nord Stage 3

[AnotherScott]

6 hours ago, niacin said:

There's a photo on that Etsy ad now.

 I meant there's no photo of the 50 degree option.  The seller offers it at 9 different angles, there's a drop-down for you to select the angle you want,  but the picture is always the same one, and that one does not look like 50 degrees to me. 

 

1 hour ago, Aynsley Green said:

Have been cobbling together a Yamaha YC88 + Roland JX-08 rig, given the JX-08 fits so neatly on the YC88 music stand.

A keyboard's music rest would be perfect for what I'm trying to do. The problem is that my top board has no holes for a music stand. 

 

[AnotherScott]

This is actually a reply to something in the "Yamaha CP88/YC88 vs. the rest" thread, but it's more relevant to discuss here...

 

On 3/13/2022 at 7:07 AM, Aynsley Green said:

 

• Sending patch changes to the Roland JX-08 was easy, however programming Duals/Splits on the JX-08 is quite fiddly (you save this 'Performance' as a Pattern, which is recallable by MIDI Patch Change #1-128, which is easy to save with a patch on the YC).
  • Roland's infuriating 'a Performance can only refer to a patch' philosophy is historically accurate, but still a pain.

 

Can you (or any other JX-08 owner here) elaborate on this?

 

I was looking at the manual, and I see that you can save a pattern which appears to be two sound assignments each with a sequence... so I guess if you leave the sequences empty (or don't hit Play), recalling it just gives you the two sounds, right? But how are they arranged? That is, you talked about this in terms of saving/recalling Duals/Splits, but if they're two sound assignments "officially" each for their own sequence, wouldn't they both be "full range"? What would be the mechanism for saving the split point? I'm assuming it makes sense when you have it, but discerning this from the manual is mysterious! They never talk about saving/recalling a pattern just to play a pair of sounds, they only talk about it in terms of sequences, which is why I'm so vague as to how you'd use it for the former.

 

Other questions: I see you can put the two parts on the same MIDI channel, or each on their own channel. I assume that setting is global, yes? Related, it looks like you send a Program Change to the Part 1 channel to change the Part 1 sound, and send a Program Change to the Part 2 channel to change the Part 2 sound, but how does that work if you put Part 1 and Part 2 on the same channel? I guess it then changes the sounds of both Parts? That would look to possibly be a different way to call up a dual layer from your YC, as opposed to calling up the saved combination (pattern). Though if you do want to call up a pattern, you would send a Program Change to the System MIDI channel, which you'd have to make sure isn't set to the same channel as your Part 1 channel or your Part 2 channel. Is that all correct?

 

And about that last quoted line, the "'a Performance can only refer to a patch' philosophy"... what's wrong with it? What would be preferred?

 

ETA: Lastly, I'm kind of flabbergasted that the only manual is online... there's nothing to download? #$%^&

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Roland can be as crafty as Apple when it comes to setting a price point at which "pro" features appear on their products.  

 

Using the JU-06A as an example....

 

Pros:

106 and 60 models

unison/mono mode

ACB sound engine sounds really good.   You can even select to have "vintage" noise from the chorus effect, or some, or none.  😉

 

Cons:

4 note poly instead of 6 (or more, it is digital after all) 

Owners say poly in chain mode is quirky with how it decides to kill notes when using sustain pedal

Mini USB (cable not in the box)

Mini audio jacks

Modulation isn't tempo synced

The JU-06 variant has ribbon controllers - but none of the controllers or buttons send over MIDI (neither 5pin nor USB)

 

I realize it doesn’t vibe as nostalgic like the JU, but for the money, $599, the JD-Xi is a lot of Roland synth…

 

 

[JohnH]

These were neat but batteries only for onstage use are a total deal breaker for me.

[Noah DC]

Bit silly for anyone to say these modules aren't gig-ready in terms of being able to protect them on the road. Just spend sixty bucks on a used Pelican case that fits it perfectly in foam like this one? That's what I'd do if I were buying one.

[CEB]

If I was going to use my D-05 on a permanent basis it would be mounted on a rack shelf.  I would use pass through jacks mounted on a rack face plate for the I/O. I power my D-05 with a USB plug in phone charger. 
 

When I do use the D-05 I carry it in a pistol case and lay it on the deck on the Kronos and power it from a USB charger.  Using them live is no problem if you want to invest in doing it right.  Redco Audio is you friend. 

[Stokely]

As an aside, I've used a double pistol case (soft, but thick) to put my mic and in-ears in for years now.  It goes into my main case.

I'm not really sure where I'd put a tabletop-style synth, whether it be Roland or otherwise.  It would make sense from a "how to add a 3rd keyboard for synth sounds without adding a 3rd keyboard" perspective, but it wouldn't fit on either of my main two keyboard.  My stand (spider pro) does support 3 tiers but I reckon I'd no longer be able to easily fold it up (have to take off an arm every time, which requires taking off the top iirc.)   That issue aside, a third tier or some custom thing that slots into the spider pro *under* my main keyboard should work.  I don't really need the controls super-handy live, as long as I can map the main ones like cutoff to a controller and maybe handle patch changes from the  main keyboard.   The mini jacks aren't great, I don't really understand who or what that decision benefits.

[CEB]

I used to get these at Gander Mtn.  You can get them anywhere that sells handgun accessories. They are the same thing Shure uses on some products except they do not say Shure on the outside and are probably way less expensive. 

[AnotherScott]

On 5/6/2022 at 2:49 PM, ElmerJFudd said:

Using the JU-06A as an example....

...

Cons:

4 note poly instead of 6 (or more, it is digital after all) 

 

 

Just because it's digital doesn't mean it's magic. They've talked before about how ACB requires relative high processing power. The System 8 does 8 voices instead of 4, but besides being pricier, it's also much bigger. I wonder if it's even possible to do 8 ACB voices in a Boutique-sized module (in terms of having enough space for the required electronics and/or the associated heat dissipation). A slightly larger Boutique could be interesting, but I suspect they intend to stick with what fits in a K-25M chassis. But I agree, 4 voice is pretty limiting in a poly. I think you almost have to look at it as a mono synth with a "bonus" use of being able to occasionally use it for chords and such. Which is fine... except for the fact that, at least IMO, most of these Rolands that we're talking about really aren't great sounding as mono lead line synths!

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Just because it's digital doesn't mean it's magic. They've talked before about how ACB requires relative high processing power. The System 8 does 8 voices instead of 4, but besides being pricier, it's also much bigger. I wonder if it's even possible to do 8 ACB voices in a Boutique-sized module (in terms of having enough space for the required electronics and/or the associated heat dissipation). A slightly larger Boutique could be interesting, but I suspect they intend to stick with what fits in a K-25M chassis. But I agree, 4 voice is pretty limiting in a poly. I think you almost have to look at it as a mono synth with a "bonus" use of being able to occasionally use it for chords and such. Which is fine... except for the fact that, at least IMO, most of these Rolands that we're talking about really aren't great sounding as mono lead line synths!

Yes, that is a good point.  If you’ve tried the Roland Cloud there is an Aira section where the System-8 VST is available.  It is a CPU hog on desktop CPU.   Even the Zencore stuff is resource hungry (polyphony over accuracy of the model).   But 10th gen+ Intel and Apple Silicon now - it might be worth it for Roland fans. 
 

I like the way the JU-06 sounds.  And of course you can be creative with your voicings and reduce your chords to essential tones.  Price is right.  But, quite a limited box at that price point.  

[Aynsley Green]

On 5/7/2022 at 2:59 AM, AnotherScott said:

This is actually a reply to something in the "Yamaha CP88/YC88 vs. the rest" thread, but it's more relevant to discuss here...

 

 

Can you (or any other JX-08 owner here) elaborate on this?

 

I was looking at the manual, and I see that you can save a pattern which appears to be two sound assignments each with a sequence... so I guess if you leave the sequences empty (or don't hit Play), recalling it just gives you the two sounds, right? But how are they arranged? That is, you talked about this in terms of saving/recalling Duals/Splits, but if they're two sound assignments "officially" each for their own sequence, wouldn't they both be "full range"? What would be the mechanism for saving the split point? I'm assuming it makes sense when you have it, but discerning this from the manual is mysterious! They never talk about saving/recalling a pattern just to play a pair of sounds, they only talk about it in terms of sequences, which is why I'm so vague as to how you'd use it for the former.

 

Other questions: I see you can put the two parts on the same MIDI channel, or each on their own channel. I assume that setting is global, yes? Related, it looks like you send a Program Change to the Part 1 channel to change the Part 1 sound, and send a Program Change to the Part 2 channel to change the Part 2 sound, but how does that work if you put Part 1 and Part 2 on the same channel? I guess it then changes the sounds of both Parts? That would look to possibly be a different way to call up a dual layer from your YC, as opposed to calling up the saved combination (pattern). Though if you do want to call up a pattern, you would send a Program Change to the System MIDI channel, which you'd have to make sure isn't set to the same channel as your Part 1 channel or your Part 2 channel. Is that all correct?

 

And about that last quoted line, the "'a Performance can only refer to a patch' philosophy"... what's wrong with it? What would be preferred?

 

ETA: Lastly, I'm kind of flabbergasted that the only manual is online... there's nothing to download? #$%^&

 

 

Yeah I'm still figuring it out, it's not the easiest box to program (but then, programming a real Juno into a live rig in this manner would also be a pain in the ass, at least its 'authentic'). I have a somewhat involved show using the YC + JX rig on Saturday that I haven't even begun to program for, yikes. That's the best way to learn.

 

As far as I can tell, 'Sequences' are the same as Performances (you don't need any sequencer data happening in them), and Program Changes sent to the JX will only dial up Performances. This way, you can organise Single Tones, Splits, or Layers, into the order you want for a live show. These 'Sequences' will dial up two patches into the A and B slots, which can either be layered or split.
I like the 'Yamaha method' where if you save a Performance, even with tweaked patches, it just saves the whole lot into that Performance, and you can get on with your life. The 'Roland method' is to have a Performance point to some patches, so you need to edit those patches seperately in order to tweak the sound. It's just time-consuming, and it's easy to lose track of what-patch-goes-where for each tune in your set. I'm having to use an Excel spreadsheet, which is never a good sign. Luckily, I can trigger these 'Sequences' from the YC which has sensible patch management that I can put names on and move around easily, so once the work is done on the JX, I just dial up the patch on the YC and just play.

 

You set the split point in the Sequence menu, if I recall. Whether you can make them receive on two different channels...I'm not sure, I will look into that on my programming misadventures this week.

 

 

[Aynsley Green]

On 5/8/2022 at 8:26 AM, AnotherScott said:

 

Just because it's digital doesn't mean it's magic. They've talked before about how ACB requires relative high processing power. The System 8 does 8 voices instead of 4, but besides being pricier, it's also much bigger. I wonder if it's even possible to do 8 ACB voices in a Boutique-sized module (in terms of having enough space for the required electronics and/or the associated heat dissipation). A slightly larger Boutique could be interesting, but I suspect they intend to stick with what fits in a K-25M chassis. But I agree, 4 voice is pretty limiting in a poly. I think you almost have to look at it as a mono synth with a "bonus" use of being able to occasionally use it for chords and such. Which is fine... except for the fact that, at least IMO, most of these Rolands that we're talking about really aren't great sounding as mono lead line synths!

 

The Polyphonic Boutiques never made sense to me until they came out with the ZenCore-powered JX-08 (which is a JX-8P model). I don't care if it's analog (those things go out of tune on stage anyway), I just wanted a small gig-sensible synth module!

[TomKittel]

On 4/22/2022 at 5:58 AM, AnotherScott said:

Instead of laying the SE-02 down on a keyboard, I'd like to prop it up so I can see its controls "minimoog-style." If it were on a bottom tier board, just laying it flat might be fine, but since I want to use it on a top board, angling it would work better. I'm wondering what solutions people may have come up with for this. The obvious solution is Roland's own DK-01, but I don't have that much depth on the top board. I'm looking more for some kind of cradle that I could velcro in place, and slip the module into when needed... IOW, I don't need (nor have room for) a "horizontal position" mode for the holder. I'm seeing some possibilities on Etsy, and this one on ebay which might be the closest I've found so far,  but I'm looking for something even in excess of 45 degrees, and not so deep on the bottom. This on on etsy has an option for 50 degrees, but there's no photo of it. Has anyone here come up with a good solution for this kind of thing?

 

I velcroed the SE02 with the DK01 on top of the Juno Stage. Works great even though the DK01 doesn’t fully fit on the Juno.

 

[AnotherScott]

6 hours ago, TomKittel said:

I velcroed the SE02 with the DK01 on top of the Juno Stage. Works great even though the DK01 doesn’t fully fit on the Juno.

 

Looks great! And that's my concern about the DK01 exactly... if it has to hang off the back, how much of the depth from the front actually must rest on the keyboard for it to be stable (assuming the velcro strip was long enough to cover the entire width, for that amount that did fit on the board). I only have between an inch and 1.5" to work with, which is asking a lot.