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Kurzweil pc4-7 I've tried, but I think I'll get rid if it


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I had a PC3 76 which I really liked, but this is kinda just dull. I don't like the springy bounce in the keys, nor the plastic feeling little keys. I can't find a velocity setting I really like. 2 gigs, couldn't get a good equalization out of the PA. Sounds better through headphones. Actually, there really isn't a wow sound in any new piano, electric piano sounds, and Kb3 double rotary is still a warble. So, some advise. My Electro 5D works great for me in my band setting of piano, electric piano and organ, but I need a board for duo gigs with an acoustic guitar. I'd like a better variety of sounds that has good drums, basses, strings and horns. Any suggestions? I had wished the PC4 7 was it.

 

Sorry you're not feeling it with the PC4.

 

If you still have the unit, feel free to shoot me an email and I'll be happy to share the custom sound set that I usually give to my own PC4 customers, free of charge. It includes gig-ready pianos that cut through a mix without having to be cranked, better EPs and Clavs, lots of analog synth stuff, plus a few sounds that I've created for Broadway shows and big rock acts. Also includes improved versions of some of the old factory sounds that I made for PC3 and Forte back when I worked for Kurz R&D.

 

This offer is extended to any and all PC4 owners on this group. I've also got similar custom sets for Forte and SP6, and a smaller one for PC3/PC3K.

 

weiserdav@gmail.com

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Yeah, I wouldn't give up on the PC4 until you installed the Dave Weiser magic - huge difference! Don't be shy about asking for Dave's help, he is very approachable.

 

Cheers,

Larry

Kurzweil Forte 7, PC3, PC4, Hydrasynth, Kronos 61, UltraNova, Rhodes, Clavinet D6, MiniMoog, GSI Burn, ELX112Ps, SpaceStation, Assorted Weapons
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It would seem that the bulk of Kurzweil"s sales are in the 88k weighed incarnation. The lighter keyed shorter width variants always come later, if at all. I wonder what the cost difference on a PC4-7 would be if it was offered with a quality semi-weight synth action as one finds on Jupiter-X or Montage.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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I wonder what the cost difference on a PC4-7 would be if it was offered with a quality semi-weight synth action as one finds on Jupiter-X or Montage.

Since they are limited to what's available to them (i.e. they don't make their own actions, and Roland/Yamaha probably won't sell them theirs), their "step-up" option would likely have been the Fatar TP/8P as on the Artis 7 and other previous Kurz models. It would be interesting to know what that would add in price and weight (the longer keys could mean that the entire chassis would have to be larger as well)... but whatever it is, I'm not sure the difference in action would result in any additional sales, especially if it meant raising the price. I guess those are the kinds of questions they try to figure out when designing these things.

 

With the K2700 being a higher end PC4 with a higher end action, it's not inconceivable that we could see a K2700-76 with that TP/8P.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Thanks Dave. Just sent email. I am still working on getting some better sounds from it by editing the chains on the better sounds. Also, still trying to get used to the keyed, the most problems being playing in sharp, or flat, keys. The back keys seem so much shorter and thinner.
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Yeah, I wouldn't give up on the PC4 until you installed the Dave Weiser magic - huge difference! Don't be shy about asking for Dave's help, he is very approachable.

 

Cheers,

Larry

 

Thanks for the kind words, Larry!

 

Regarding actions... I'm a huge fan of the weighted TP40L used in the Forte, PC3K8, and K27000. But when I was at Kurz R&D and testing/playing different boards with different actions all day, I learned to adjust my playing so that I could manage a gig on most of 'em. I always thought the TP8 semi-weighted action (Artis7, PC376, PC276, K2600 76) was fine, but man oh man that action has a VERY vocal contingent of folks who don't like it one bit. Of course I also know a bunch of cats who swear by it and would love to buy another board with that action.

 

From the development side of things, the TP8 can be tough, because of its cost and weight. It doesn't shave off enough in either column. I think there's an expectation these days for a 76 semi-weighted board to be a good bit less expensive, and a good bit lighter than its 88 counterpart, and the TP8 can make this very difficult or impossible. IIRC the TP8 has steel flanges that run the length of the board, making it heavy enough to require a somewhat heavy/sturdy enclose onto which it can be mounted.

 

The Medeli actions in the PC4 and PC4-7 on the other hand are lightweight enough that they can be mounted on plastic enclosures with no fuss.

 

I'd be curious to know how people here feel about 76 semi vs 76 fully weighted? I personally prefer fully weighted, but I do understand that for a variety of reasons, some players simply don't need or want a weighted action.

 

I loved gigging with my old Ensoniq KT76 back in the 90s, and these days I love my trusty Forte7, with a killer hammer action in a board that fits into a 61 note flight case. If I were going to use a PC4-7 myself, it would probably be as a top board, for synth, string and organ parts, etc., with something fully weighted on the bottom. It would sort of take the place of a 61 for me.

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...

I'd be curious to know how people here feel about 76 semi vs 76 fully weighted? I personally prefer fully weighted, but I do understand that for a variety of reasons, some players simply don't need or want a weighted action.

 

I loved gigging with my old Ensoniq KT76 back in the 90s, and these days I love my trusty Forte7, with a killer hammer action in a board that fits into a 61 note flight case. If I were going to use a PC4-7 myself, it would probably be as a top board, for synth, string and organ parts, etc., with something fully weighted on the bottom. It would sort of take the place of a 61 for me.

 

I fall on the side of 76 semi, as I feel like it's more versatile to use as both an upper board over a hammer-action board and a all-purpose keyboard in itself. With the PC4 88 being only 3" wider than my PC3-76, the compactness need for choosing a 76 weighted is substantially diminished (at least if you're looking at Kurzweil). Just my thoughts.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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I always thought the TP8 semi-weighted action (Artis7, PC376, PC276, K2600 76) was fine, but man oh man that action has a VERY vocal contingent of folks who don't like it one bit. Of course I also know a bunch of cats who swear by it and would love to buy another board with that action.
As you've probably seen me mention, I was among the contingent of those who didn't like it... except that I liked it quite a lot once I found lighter springs to put into it. It really is very nice, it's just that the stock springs create an unfortunate about of upward pressure as you play.

 

A while back, I had a chance to try an old SP76 that someone was using at a show I'd gone to see. I quite liked it. I looked it up online, and as you also have probably seen, there's a chart making the rounds that lists tons of keyboards and what actions they use, and the SP76 is listed as using a TP/8Piano, but really, though I only played it very brifely, I didn't think it felt like the Kurzweil Fatar TP/8Piano I was familiar with. Do you happen to know whether that board did or didn't use that action? I haven't found any definitive info online.

 

I'd be curious to know how people here feel about 76 semi vs 76 fully weighted? I personally prefer fully weighted, but I do understand that for a variety of reasons, some players simply don't need or want a weighted action.

Of course there's the huge variable that some people look at 76s as "bottoms" and come at it with a very piano orientation, and some are looking for them as "tops" where piano is rarely played. But that aside, I've come to the conclusion that differences between specific actions are more important than differences between types of actions. Many years ago, I'd have said that even the worst hammer action board was better for piano than the best semi-weighted, but I don't believe that anymore. I don't know how much of that is a change in me vs. a change in the gear that has come out over the years, but the bottom line is that, even for piano use, I can't answer your question, because while I generally prefer hammer actions for piano, there are indeed a number of semi-weighted actions I prefer for piano over quite a few hammer action boards!

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I'm with Scott on the Artis 7; I recently (finally) installed the Syntaur springs in mine, and it makes it a much more enjoyable experience to my way of playing. It's really a joy to play now.

 

I've mentioned this before, but I will again: I WISH companies like Kurz and others put in the specs what the tension is on their keybeds, i.e. what spring tension is (I assume in grams) along with what model the action is (which of course they usually do). For some reason, it's a state secret what tension it is from both the manufacturers and Fatar. Why????

 

On my guitars I can get any number of variants of every single part on them. Pots, caps, strings, tuners, bridges, bone nuts, pickups, every imaginable part is customizable to the users wishes. It seems so simple to let folks know what the hell is in it, and give them the option of changing it out if they wish. That way, like strings on a guitar (I happen to like .10's), I could determine that I like (say) "40 gram" tension, and make those changes in each keyboard I have by buying a set of those springs.

 

Maybe Dave Weiser can chime in on if that has ever been discussed, or why it's something that is sooooo secret? He has mentioned in the past that an enormous amount of work goes into deciding what keybed tension is used, which I now understand. But in this day and age it seems like a no-brainer to offer options to make changes based on players/customers preference??? Having recently made the swap in my Artis, I can share that its relatively easy to make the swap; maybe 45 minutes the first time I did it. Now that I know how to do it it's probably more like 30 minutes....

 

I prefer semi-weighted by the way. I switch between my Artis being on the top or my Nord E5, depending on the gig.

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Given the frequency with which the topic of Fatar TP8, 8O and other synth action variants are described as too tight and springy and some of their buyers like Crumar and UHL are replacing those springs, end users are replacing those springs - what keeps Fatar from getting the message and changing those springs? I know that whenever I am tempted at the idea of an Electro, Wave 2, Stage 3 Compact - all I need to do is sit down and play one - nope, not spending that kind of money on an action I am not happy with.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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I don't think so. The price point coupled with the sequencer and other stuff that I'd never use will probably keep me from going that direction. I think I'll keep my eye out for a used PC3k or a and be done with buying boards for a while.

Kurzweil PC4-7

Kurzweil Artis 7

Alto TS312 Powered Speakers (2)

Samson 6 channel mixer

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Given the frequency with which the topic of Fatar TP8, 8O and other synth action variants are described as too tight and springy and some of their buyers like Crumar and UHL are replacing those springs, end users are replacing those springs - what keeps Fatar from getting the message and changing those springs?

There are at least three different tensions available in TP/8O boards... there is the middle (and what I think was the original "standard") tension, which has been used in numerous Hammonds going back at least to the XK1 as well as Korg's final iteration of the CX3 the original Numa Organ, and I think the DMC-122 and original Mojos; there is a heavier spring tension initially found (AFAIK) only in Nords, but subsequently also used in Dexibell J7 Combo, and I believe Viscount Legend; and a lighter version first seen in the Mojo61 but then put in the dual manual Mojo, and also in at least some Numa Organ 2. I've read conflicting opinions on the Roland VR-730, it may be heavily sprung like the Nord, or maybe in the standard category. (I'd be curious to hear from anyone here who has played the VR730 side-by-side with another known middle or high-tension variant for comparison.)

 

(It's also not impossible that there could be subtle differences in tension even among the ones I've grouped into the same category.)

 

But something that is an open question to me is whether these companies are all receiving "standard" units, and the alternate springs are installed by the various manufacturers, OR the manufacturers are specifying that Fatar deliver the actions with the manufacturers' springs of choice. If it's the latter, then it is not up to Fatar to get the message, it's up to manufacturers to get the message and specify what more people seem to want. Except maybe the manufacturers don't think that's what people really want, or they genuinely believe their boards play best from the springs they are using. And admittedly, despite what seems like a lot of consensus online that, for example, the Nord's are too heavily sprung, it's not a scientific survey.

 

The Numa Organ 2 is an interesting case. The first one I played definitely felt wonderfully light; one I played much later felt like a "standard" version. But remember, Numa is part of Fatar. I would not be astonished to learn that they sometimes use different sets of springs, depending on what they have at hand. e.g. if Crumar had just done a run that exhausted Fatar's supply of the light springs, but they had plenty of standard springs on hand, sure, they could say, just use the standard springs. (I say this especially in the context of another recent thread that showed different versions of the "same" Fatar action have had noticeable differences, even coming out of the same model keyboards manufactured around the same time.) Though this premise would be consistent with Fatar installing the desired springs for the companies buying their actions, rather than those companies physically doing that customization themselves after taking delivery.

 

Getting a little closer to on-topic, I read another thread somewhere that said that the Dexibell S1 (TP/8Piano) seemed to be better--and specifically more lightly sprung--than the Kurzweil version. Again, we don't know whether that change was done by Dexibell, or done by Fatar at Dexibell's request, or if maybe even Fatar has changed their standard spring for that action. If Kurzweil does end up using that action in a board again, hopefully one way or the other, they could supply it with the lighter springs, which really does make it, I think, one of the best semi-weighted actions you can get.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I was very interested in PC4-7, with a better action it"s a home run with me. But I realize they envisioned a certain price and weight. A 76k synth action Forte or K2700 - both models at their higher price point should have an action that competes with Montage, Jupiter X and the like. I"d certainly choose it over Nord Stage 3 Compact.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Very interesting stuff regarding spring tension! I think it merits a closer look.

 

When I was at Kurz this topic just didn't come up in the meetings I attended. It wasn't due to lack of interest, but due to the fact that we were a small team that was stretched thin, with all of us already wearing multiple hats, working 80 hour weeks and barely staying afloat with our workloads. We were constantly overwhelmed. I'm sure at some point the hardware guys chose a specific model, which I'm pretty sure was TP8 piano.

 

I do remember hearing about slight changes being made in the Fatar boards that were supplied to Kurz - the only memory that's semi-clear is that there was a change with the TP9 synth action at some point.

 

I don't know if Fatar is going to do anything differently, or respond in any way to requests on this topic. I definitely think you guys are onto something, and I trust your judgement; I'm pretty sure that I'd be sold after playing the lighter-sprung version. But I'm guessing it might be a tough sell with Fatar, as they can say that there are thousands of players out there using the TP8 with the standard issue springs who are perfectly happy. While I think this is the case, it doesn't take away from the fact that what you guys are proposing would be an improvement.

 

For now, I'll check in with the guys at Kurz R&D and some friends who work for other manufacturers. I'll also check with people at some of the bigger Kurz distributors to see if any of them have ever started this conversation with Kurz or Fatar in the past.

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Very interesting stuff regarding spring tension! I think it merits a closer look.

 

When I was at Kurz this topic just didn't come up in the meetings I attended. It wasn't due to lack of interest, but due to the fact that we were a small team that was stretched thin, with all of us already wearing multiple hats, working 80 hour weeks and barely staying afloat with our workloads. We were constantly overwhelmed. I'm sure at some point the hardware guys chose a specific model, which I'm pretty sure was TP8 piano.

 

I do remember hearing about slight changes being made in the Fatar boards that were supplied to Kurz - the only memory that's semi-clear is that there was a change with the TP9 synth action at some point.

 

I don't know if Fatar is going to do anything differently, or respond in any way to requests on this topic. I definitely think you guys are onto something, and I trust your judgement; I'm pretty sure that I'd be sold after playing the lighter-sprung version. But I'm guessing it might be a tough sell with Fatar, as they can say that there are thousands of players out there using the TP8 with the standard issue springs who are perfectly happy. While I think this is the case, it doesn't take away from the fact that what you guys are proposing would be an improvement.

 

For now, I'll check in with the guys at Kurz R&D and some friends who work for other manufacturers. I'll also check with people at some of the bigger Kurz distributors to see if any of them have ever started this conversation with Kurz or Fatar in the past.

 

Dave, huge thanks or at least asking the question to folks in your circle, which is far closer to the actual people who determine these things.

 

To clarify my post above, I make the assumption that Fatar has some number of spring tensions available for a given keybed; let's to go with Scott's assumption of three levels of tension. The manufacturer makes the final decision of which tension to use based on factors they deem important to the product they're creating.

 

I wouldn't expect Fatar to share with consumers what springs are in a given instrument, as the end consumer is not their customer; the manufacturer is. They essentially told me this at NAMM a couple of years back. I could see them potentially sell different tensions of springs to consumers someday , but I would expect the manufacturer to share that information of tension with the end user up front when a product is released.

 

I'm actually getting together with a friend of mine who's an industrial designer this weekend. He told me he has a giant catalog of springs available for designers to use; I'm betting these springs are not something custom for the MI business, but more likely springs used in other industries as well...

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  • 2 months later...

I'm very late to this party, but just purchased an Artis 7 and agree about the too-tight spring action.  I'm thinking about getting rid of it already because of that problem.  However it sounds like spring replacement might be well worth the effort. AnotherScott and zxcvbnm098, if you have any pointers on how to replace the springs and where to source the softer springs (Syntaur?)  I'd really appreciate your advice.  Thanks!

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Yes, I got the springs from Syntaur, though they seem to have them less frequently than they used to. I'm not mechanical, but opening up the Artis and swapping the springs was a piece of cake.

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Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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@Dave Weiser Re: input on 76 key keyboards. I might very well be in the minority here, but I'm a big fan of the 70-ish key keyboard, and not for weight or price reasons. It's simply an easier keyboard to pack/maneuver/fit in many of the places that I gig, and I rarely see the payoff of having another octave of keys that I never use.

 

One thing I really like about my Forte7 is there was no compromise in keybed from the 88 key version yet it's almost a foot narrower. On some of the stages I play or maneuver onto, that 11+ inches can make a big difference. While 7lbs lighter, it's still pretty heavy for it's size but that really doesn't bother me; it's not like if it was lighter I'd just throw it under my arm and pick up another keyboard with my other arm. 


BTW, I think the TP40 on the Forte is the perfect compromise for an all-around board. Weirdly I also have a TP40 Nord and a TP40W SL88 grand and I wouldn't say any of them feel identical.

I'm holding out with crossed fingers for a 70ish key K2700. I simply could not buy an 88 key version, and they just take up way too much space in my not-small studio. I would happily replace both my Nord and SL88 if they just made a 70ish key version with the TP40 or some other keybed I could stand (not a fan of the TP100).

You want me to start this song too slow or too fast?

 

Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff

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10 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

BTW, I think the TP40 on the Forte is the perfect compromise for an all-around board. Weirdly I also have a TP40 Nord and a TP40W SL88 grand and I wouldn't say any of them feel identical.

 

 

Yep, I really love the TP40 on the Forte. But must be one of the reasons, why is Forte 7 so heavy compared to TP 100 Nord Electro.

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17 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Yes, I got the springs from Syntaur, though they seem to have them less frequently than they used to. I'm not mechanical, but opening up the Artis and swapping the springs was a piece of cake.

Thanks for the encouragement! I've inquired at Syntaur. Do you recall any details about what keybed the lighter springs were from, or their size or gauge? Any identifying info would be much appreciated. 

 

BTW, in regards to the 73/76 key format, I do love that size. I really enjoy the weighted 76-key keyboard on my Kurzweil PC1SE, reportedly a Fatar TP/30 model. Same old issue, though, that keyboard is 20 lbs heavier than the Artis7...

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As a new owner of a used Forte 7, I also love the combination of compact size and nice (to me at least) action.

And while it is heavy, I reckon it will be easier to move and set up than a keyboard like my old Moxf8--lighter, sure, but MUCH bigger (ok, it has 88 keys) but also a big chassis with weird angles making it hard to grip.  The Forte 7 has a very convenient lip along the bottom near the back, I almost wonder if it was designed as a gripping aid.  I also love the angled back plate with the jacks with the WHITE labels on top, I don't need to go behind the thing to hook anything up. I need to practically get under my MODX with a flashlight and my reading glasses to plug anything in.

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21 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

@Dave Weiser Re: input on 76 key keyboards. I might very well be in the minority here, but I'm a big fan of the 70-ish key keyboard, and not for weight or price reasons. It's simply an easier keyboard to pack/maneuver/fit in many of the places that I gig, and I rarely see the payoff of having another octave of keys that I never use.

 

One thing I really like about my Forte7 is there was no compromise in keybed from the 88 key version yet it's almost a foot narrower. On some of the stages I play or maneuver onto, that 11+ inches can make a big difference. While 7lbs lighter, it's still pretty heavy for it's size but that really doesn't bother me; it's not like if it was lighter I'd just throw it under my arm and pick up another keyboard with my other arm. 

 

Thought I'd jump in here on two points:

First, I'm with Iconoclast on the 70 something key models.   It's all about the size of the board for me.  I too wind up on stages way too small where there's just no room to spare.  My last three gigging boards; PC3-76, Kronos 73 and NS3 76 barely fit on 80% of the real estate we play on.  With a drums, bass, guitar (sometimes 2), horns (sometimes 2) amps, wedges, etc....there's just not space.  Stage aside, lugging an 88 key w case into cars, through doors & crowds, etc. is no fun. Settling on a 70 something key model with an action that fits one's playing style narrows one's choices.

 

Point two; I owned the PC3 for a number of years.  I bought it after owning a K2000, K2VX, SP76, K2600 & K2661.  I like Kurzweil boards, but was no fan of the PC3 action.  For me, it was not just the feel I didn't like, it was that my forearms ached after playing.  Not just a mild annoyance, they really hurt, especially after a long show.  I've never had that experience with any other board.  I bought the Kronos and NS3 because they were weighted and I did not trust semi-weighted boards after the PC3.  I've come to the conclusion, as some here have related, it wasn't so much the downstroke, but rather the "spring back" that was causing the pain.  I actually bought the Syntaur springs to try to mod it, but never did get around to installing them as I never felt confident enough to open it up; I needed that board to be operational and worried about messing it up. 

 

Given how common discussions are on actions/feel, and how many years these have been going on, I'd think a manufacturer that came up with a system to be able to dial in resistance/tension of their keybed would be a game changer. 

"May you stay...forever young."

 

 

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Kurtz Forte 88. US$5k

Kurtz Forte7  76 key is US$4K 

the Forte 88 SE is US$1699?

Funny how much we pay for great internal sounds and then still use an external software Rhodes or Clavi!

Since you mention 73/76 keys for compact space - do you like when manufacturers put. The pitch wheel up high, above the lowest octave keys? If a bottom board it can be a reach to the pitch bend. I like wheels but joystick or Nord stick… I guess you can get used to anything.,,, depends how often you do pitch bend.  do you like the side insert pitch bend on the Vox?

 

Thanks to all for your comments about the action on popular keyboards!

tripp323

Nord Electro, Kawai MP, Roland JX-305, Korg T1 & 707

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Forte 88 SE was basically the predecessor to the PC4, which is closer to a Forte than the Forte SE was.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Whew, this is a bit off topic, but I had my first gig with my new used Forte.

Holy crap my hands were tired by the end of the show.  I've been playing on a PC361 at home, and a MODX7 at gigs, for years now.  As much as I like the Forte action, I am NOT used to any weighted action!

One unfortunate side effect of that TP40 action (or so I presume) is that the screen is pretty far back on the Forte.  At home that was fine, but under another keyboard it was really hard to see.  I might have to raise up that keyboard, and it was already pretty high because the Forte is tall.  Not to mention the black Forte was really dark in the shadow of the other board so I might have to get an led strip or something to help me see the buttons and sliders!

Ironically, because I'll need to raise up the 2nd keyboard anyway, this could lead to me getting that 2nd tier for the Omega pro, which doesn't allow the two keyboards to be all that close together (or so I've read as a common complaint.)

It's always a bit rough gigging with a new keyboard for sure.

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