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Dexibell SX8 piano and organ module


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https://www.dexibell.com/prodotto/vivo-sx8/?lang=en

 

Looks like an upgraded SX7, with 3.2 GB you can load up with sounds (Decibell's own and/or sounfonts) instead of 1.5 GB, more effects capabilities, and they added their tonewheel organ engine.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I wonder if they've improved the rotary simulation or if they will now that there's another product using it.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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I just perused the website about this module, and I am definitely intrigued! A possibly solid Integra replacement, and I like the fact that the module can be run as either a desktop or a rack-mount as well! SoundFont compatibility makes it almost infinitely expandable, subject to the limitations of Soundfont sample quality. I also like the fact that it will work with any MIDI keyboard....USB or MIDI 5pin DIN.

----------------------------------------------------------

 

Gig: Yamaha MODX7, NumaX 73 Piano  Studio: Kawai ES-920; Hammond SK Pro 73; Yamaha Motif ES7 w/DX,VL,VH; Yamaha YC 73; Kawai MP-6; Numa Compact 2x

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Sound fonts of course don"t allow the detailed programming you have in a software sampler like Kontakt. But there"s something to be said for a format that has no licensing and gets the job done if you just need to include a sound or make your own.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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I wonder if they've improved the rotary simulation or if they will now that there's another product using it.

They improved it for the J7 Combo (and S9) in OS 4.06, over three years ago. AFAIK, that was the last/only rotary improvement they've done, but for me, it was good enough to cross the line from unacceptable to acceptable. J7 may still not be a top tier organ engine board, but it's a pretty solid entry. Overall, I would rank their organ/rotary combination above Roland FA/Integra (haven't tried the new Fantom one yet), Yamaha YC, Kurzweil's KB3 engine, Korg PA700/PA1000, Vox Continental, Numa Compact 2X, any of the Casios that have drawbar engines, Ferrofish.

 

Looks like the organs are presets, no drawbar manipulation. Trying to compete perhaps with the GSI Gemini?

Like the Gemini, there are no drawbars, but there is drawbar manipulation. On the Gemini, you can do it through the editor or via external MIDI controller. On the SX8, they have "9 virtual draw faders on LCD for Tone Wheels" -- too soon to know for sure whether they are also addressable via MIDI CC. Though I'm optimistic, since the J7 drawbar implementation used standard MIDI CCs.

 

Samples, no organ engine.

Where are you seeing that? It's at odds with their spec page, where it looks to be a similar implementation to the J7.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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As an aside, it's pretty mind-boggling how companies seem to continue to put out organ emulations with (arguably) the most important part being sub-standard: the leslie sim. I've never heard this one so I'm just basing this on comments. I have to wonder if they get a bunch of smart folks together who might know pianos, strings etc but barely know what a leslie is to program these things....looking at you, Yamaha....

 

And it's not like it's unattainable, a few companies have had decent (enough, imo) sims for a while.

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I wonder if they've improved the rotary simulation or if they will now that there's another product using it.

They improved it for the J7 Combo (and S9) in OS 4.06, over three years ago. AFAIK, that was the last/only rotary improvement they've done, but for me, it was good enough to cross the line from unacceptable to acceptable. J7 may still not be a top tier organ engine board, but it's a pretty solid entry. Overall, I would rank their organ/rotary combination above Roland FA/Integra (haven't tried the new Fantom one yet), Yamaha YC, Kurzweil's KB3 engine, Korg PA700/PA1000, Vox Continental, Numa Compact 2X, any of the Casios that have drawbar engines, Ferrofish.

 

Looks like the organs are presets, no drawbar manipulation. Trying to compete perhaps with the GSI Gemini?

Like the Gemini, there are no drawbars, but there is drawbar manipulation. On the Gemini, you can do it through the editor or via external MIDI controller. On the SX8, they have "9 virtual draw faders on LCD for Tone Wheels" -- too soon to know for sure whether they are also addressable via MIDI CC. Though I'm optimistic, since the J7 drawbar implementation used standard MIDI CCs.

 

Samples, no organ engine.

Where are you seeing that? It's at odds with their spec page, where it looks to be a similar implementation to the J7.

 

I"m not seeing that, I should have put a question mark. Was replying to Dave"s comment.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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As an aside, it's pretty mind-boggling how companies seem to continue to put out organ emulations with (arguably) the most important part being sub-standard: the leslie sim. I've never heard this one so I'm just basing this on comments. I have to wonder if they get a bunch of smart folks together who might know pianos, strings etc but barely know what a leslie is to program these things....looking at you, Yamaha....

 

And it's not like it's unattainable, a few companies have had decent (enough, imo) sims for a while.

 

I think it shows how difficult it is to build one"s own Leslie simulation from scratch without stealing IP. And how it ranks as a priority on multi engine workstation-like keyboards.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Probably the latter I think, seeing as how some have been able to do it for a long while now. The original Roland v-combo/vk8 wasn't bad at all (for rock at least) and how old is that thing (and how meager the processing must be compared to modern keyboards).

 

Then again I'm not in that business of making sims myself so it's easy to potshot people from the outside! :) And to give Yamaha in particular some props, they have made it trivial to fold in an ipad so I can shore up what I see as a weakness in the MODX (probably one that very few MODX customers even care about honestly.)

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I think with a few products that focus exclusively on delivering a better rotary simulation like the Ventilator, Hammond Leslie Pedals, GSi Burn, Lester K, etc. and Virtual Instruments like B3X - what we expect internal on the keyboards themselves has become more critical. The mini vent apparently doesn"t deliver as nice an effect as the Ventilator I/II due to reduced DSP? Not sure what it needs to get it sounding so good, but I bet running the engine at depot but depth and higher sample rate helps. But the code itself has to be good.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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I think it shows how difficult it is to build one"s own Leslie simulation from scratch without stealing IP. And how it ranks as a priority on multi engine workstation-like keyboards.

I think the multi-engine workstation aspect is interesting, because I think it implies the need for lots of resources to do just the one effect, and unlike on a dedicated clonewheel (or something close to it), the DSP resources of a multi engine workstation may be called upon to do lots more different kinds of effects simultaneously. MODX has 24 "effects units" that can be applied to internal sounds, but they are limited to two effects per part; Roland FA/Integra similarly has 16 effects but only 1 can be assigned per part. This limitation on how many effects are available for a single sound is employed to help assure that each sound will sound the same whether played by itself or in conjunction with a bunch of other parts. Kurzweil takes a different approach, where you can divide up (for example) the 32 effects units of a PC4 any way you want, so you're free to throw a lot of effects resources at a single sound at the expense of not having them available for other sounds... and in fact, their rotary effect takes something like 10 effects units to create. (Though for whatever other reasons, it still isn't great.)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Yep. The FX themselves have to be capable of delivering realistic, desirable results and the hardware has to have the juice to run the calculations at low latency across the audio spectrum. I do think it"s challenging and I"m sure the developers would agree. If it were easy, they"d all have winners and we wouldn"t still be talking about how poor this or that one sounds.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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I'll also mention that rotary is, itself, a combination of effects. There's a crossover with certain phase, pitch, and amplitude changes taking place above the crossover frequency (in stereo!), and a different set of such changes simultaneously taking place below the crossover frequency, plus if done right, its own overdrive implementation. It's probably the most complicated "single" effect there is. And then it's often laid over an organ sound that is using additional effects resources of its own to do the chorus/vibrato, besides!

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Definitely. The electronic path they have gotten very good at - modeling analog circuitry. Even using mic in the room to simulate what different speakers and cabinets do to what we hear (Kemper profiler). But that Leslie cabinet with its rotating horn - it just isn"t a pair of 12' celestians facing straight out into the room. The Leslie cabinet has all these compartments, two different sized speakers, upper and lower vents, this spinning horn getting manipulated in real time pushing sound and air all over the place in every direction.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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https://www.dexibell.com/prodotto/vivo-sx8/?lang=en

 

Looks like an upgraded SX7, with 3.2 GB you can load up with sounds (Decibell's own and/or sounfonts) instead of 1.5 GB, more effects capabilities, and they added their tonewheel organ engine.

https://www.dexibell.com/prodotto/vivo-sx8/?lang=en

 

Looks like an upgraded SX7, with 3.2 GB you can load up with sounds (Decibell's own and/or sounfonts) instead of 1.5 GB, more effects capabilities, and they added their tonewheel organ engine.

 

And the pipe organ sounds from the J7. And it should allow downloading the other pipe organ suites from the Dexibell website.

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Most people on this thread seem focused on the organ sounds. I"m more interested in what it offers in pianos. It seems to be the next step in implementing the technology in the H10 series. Platinum Pianos installed with extended memory for more Platinum Pianos. I hope this is a sign that their entire lineup will be updated with this newer technology.
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I'm looking at it as basically an SX7 module with double the memory (for more platinum pianos and/or soundfonts) plus a clonewheel organ engine. Dave made a Gemini analogy earlier, and I can also see them as kind of similar, though with opposite priorities... kind of like a drawbar organ module with rompler and piano functions, vs. a piano module with rompler and drawbar organ functions, though even that distinction is reduced as new pianos have been coming out for the Gemini. Both employ modeling for some of their non-organ stuff (though Gemini more so). Gemini is bitimbral, Dexibell is tri. Gemini has a VA synth. So yeah, similarities and differences, but I think similar enough in significant ways that some players could consider choosing between the two.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I haven"t been able to sit at a Dexibel - surprisingly not on the show room floor along with Yamaha, Roland, Korg⦠Williams. How desirable are the sample libraries and playback engine they"ve developed? From demos, it does seem they have their own ideas about what it should sound like. And some of them do sound competitive. Does the DSP and higher bit depth/sample rate they"re running their engine at make a difference? Because it"s not like this module is a bargain verse going with a laptop or compared to the cost of an Integra seven.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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https://www.dexibell.com/prodotto/vivo-sx8/?lang=en

 

Looks like an upgraded SX7, with 3.2 GB you can load up with sounds (Decibell's own and/or sounfonts) instead of 1.5 GB, more effects capabilities, and they added their tonewheel organ engine.

 

AFAIK, the SX7 had problems handling "standard" MIDI bank- and program- changes.

Forumite "hardware", who tried to integrate the module into his live-rig, might be willing commenting on this.

 

Anyway,-

 

specs and "sound" (matter of taste) are only a fraction of functionality needed to make a MIDI module a piece of gear worth to try,- or to use.

 

Organ:

Up to now, the overdrive was crap.

No need to discuss the leslie-sim.

 

Freely usere-assignable Insert-FX slots per "zone":

Kurzweil is "king of the hill" !

When pitch-bend mechanism and "scanner-board" reliability were significantly better on KURZ keyboards,- I used only these.

 

A.C.

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I haven"t been able to sit at a Dexibel...How desirable are the sample libraries and playback engine they"ve developed?

I've honestly lost track of the provenance of the sounds I've got loaded into my P3... In many cases, I don't know whether they are from Dexibell sample libaries or from sound fonts. But I do know that my opinions of the Dexibell sounds have varied a lot, with some I thought were really strong, and some that don't work for me at all.

 

Because it"s not like this module is a bargain verse going with a laptop or compared to the cost of an Integra seven.

Have you seen any pricing on it?

 

Modules in general have fallen out of favor in part because of what you can get from a laptop... but there are also lots of folks who don't want to be bothered with the laptop complications. Modules are essentially plug and play, no configuration or latency issues, less in the way of "delicate" connections to the outside world or external pieces hanging off of them, less concern about where they can be safely placed or about being theft targets... I think it's a given that you can get better sound and flexibility out of a laptop than out of a module, and often for less money. So you choose the module approach for different reasons.

 

Integra is an interesting competitor to consider. I'd give Dexibell the edge in pianos, EPs, organ. But Integra's SuperNATURAL Acoustic tones--other than the aforementioned piano/EP/organ--are probably better overall than the Dexibell equivalents, as are probably even lots of the SRX-expansion based sounds. Plus it's got far more total sounds in it, and it's 16-part multitimbral vs 3. And it's got the VA synth, too. Bottom line, overall, the Roland seems a lot more capable, but the places Dexibell has the edge--piano/EP/organ--are the most important sounds for many. Plus the Dexibells is smaller/lighter to bring around, and has the ability to load custom samples.

 

AFAIK, the SX7 had problems handling "standard" MIDI bank- and program- changes.

Forumite "hardware", who tried to integrate the module into his live-rig, might be willing commenting on this.

I'd be curious to know more. Certainly a module needs to handle MIDI control well, otherwise what's the point?

 

Organ:

Up to now, the overdrive was crap.

No need to discuss the leslie-sim.

 

Freely usere-assignable Insert-FX slots per "zone":

Kurzweil is "king of the hill" !

OTOH, Kurz doesn't make a module. And I'd say that Dexibell's organ/leslie sim beats Kurzweil's. So as usual, no knock-outs. just different pros and cons.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I worked out changing programs on the SX7 using program change messages sent from pressing SK Pro patch select buttons. As I recall it was kind of challenging. I contacted Dexibell tech support and they were a great help. My setup is simple as I"m just using the SX7"s AP, Rhodes, and Wurlie (so far). I have all the SX7 control I need from the SK Pro controls and, therefore, have no need to touch the SX7 during performance.
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I worked out changing programs on the SX7 using program change messages sent from pressing SK Pro patch select buttons. As I recall it was kind of challenging. I contacted Dexibell tech support and they were a great help. My setup is simple as I"m just using the SX7"s AP, Rhodes, and Wurlie (so far). I have all the SX7 control I need from the SK Pro controls and, therefore, have no need to touch the SX7 during performance.

 

I found it not so much challenging as just not obvious, whether you've come from Roland or Korg or what. The multis (combis, whatever you want to call them) only have 3 sounds each, just set the receive channel and you're good to go. The user interface is actually relatively simple because your editing options are so limited, it's just not obvious what is where, so you gotta rtfm.

 

IIRC Hardware's issue was that at the end of the day the sounds just didn't meet his expectations, especially strings and brass, but he had come from software and giga libraries and was trying to lose the computer, so a different challenge.

 

I have the SX7 in a small rack case with a Gemini. The SX7 fills in the Gemini's major weak spots, i.e. piano and strings. I use it for little else. There is very limited editing, no control over the filter on synth patches for example. By comparison the Gemini allows you to edit a stack of parameters for the sounds and fx, but you get 2 sounds at once instead of 3. The Gemini gives me electric pianos and a few synths. They make a good pair. I had an Integra and it saw a ton of gigs but the sounds never really made me smile the way some of those in the Gemini and SX7 do, but it's 16 part multitimbral with detailed editing, and though it is kinda like painting a house through the letterbox the user interface is as straight forward as it gets, imo, everything is where you'd expect and easy to navigate, and it has a bazillion sounds.

 

The online audio doesn't suggest to me that Dexibell's tonewheel organs are in the same league as the Gemini's.

 

There has been an ongoing issue with editing the Gemini because the wi-fi dongle is a pos, but that's just been fixed with a standalone software editor that works via the usb connection.

 

I have also never been able to get the sustain pedal to work on the SX7 via MIDI from another keyboard, but there are plugs at the back of the SX7 for pedals so i just go with that; one day I will care enough to email Dexibell.

Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals

 

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Kurzweil used to make lots of racks dedicated to delivering their samples - back in the ROM days. I think they would be pleasantly surprised, as would Korg and Nord, if they had one rackable desktop unit that delivered their sounds to people who don"t have space for another keyboard, don"t like their actions, already have a controller keyboard they are happy with, don"t want to get into using the laptop live. Yes, the heyday of racks is over, but having one in the line up like Roland and Dexibell seems like a decent strategy. Especially if they have no plans to get into something like 'Roland Cloud' or 'Korg Collection 3' or have a presence on iOS.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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I found it not so much challenging as just not obvious, whether you've come from Roland or Korg or what. The multis (combis, whatever you want to call them) only have 3 sounds each, just set the receive channel and you're good to go.

Yes, I just looked at the manual, it's not bad, but as you say, you do need to see the manual to know something about how it's structured. Essentially, your up-to-three simultaneous sounds are recalled on channels 1-3. Your "memories" (which is a set of up to three sounds and their tweaked parameters, kind of the way a Korg combi is a set of up to 16 sounds and other parameters) are recalled on channel 15. (Those are all default channels, they can be changed.) Though one thing that was unexpected is that, even though there are fewer than 128 factory tones, they are recalled through different banks (MSB/LSB), something that usually isn't done unless there are more than 128 programs to choose from. Maybe it makes sense because of the additional sounds you can download into it, which could push you over the 128 limit? It does make it more of a nuisance to program your controllers, though. Also there is no explicit info in the manual about recalling the 80 user memory locations other than saying they're on channel 15, though the seperate MIDI manual does confirm that the 80 Memory locations are simply recalled with Program Change 0 to 79 as would be expected. Another issue I see is that the manual predates the ability to load in soundfonts as user tones, and since the tone recall is not sequential but instead always involves MSB/LSB, it's a bit of a mystery as to what Program Change would be required to call up any individual soundfonts you've subsequently loaded in. As with many things, I think confusions arise at least as much from shortcomings in the documentation as from the implementation itself.

 

The online audio doesn't suggest to me that Dexibell's tonewheel organs are in the same league as the Gemini's.

I agree that Gemini's organ is stronger, based on the J7 Combo.

 

While on the subject of Gemini comparisons, one one hand its MIDI implementation is more straight-forward... basically it's a straight 128 Programs, simple, no bank switching. OTOH, AFAIK, you do have to look at its bitimbrality as two separate devices. You can easily change sound A over MIDI, likewise sound B, but there's no combination entity to recall a pair of sounds. Another Dexibell perk is that it generally has patch remain, whereas not only does the Gemini not hold sounds through transitions, there's actually a brief delay when loading a new sound.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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The SX7 has been moved to Dexibell's "legacy" page, so I guess that confirms that the SX8 is a replacement model (rather than an additional model).

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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  • 1 month later...

Missed discussion on this...looks highly interesting

 

And it has drawbar organ engine...if I could create presets...geez no brainer

 

I see Thomann UK has them for 975 euro...1150 US

 

about time someone came out with a good module

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