Al Coda Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 I have a CP 73, didn't want a CP 88 as I have a Kawai VPC-1. Interesting combo ! So, what´s up w/ that in the web endless discussed CP73´s action issue, the CP 88 doesn´t introduce ? Were you able working around or did you have simply luck w/ your CP73 ? I also own a 88 weighted keys keyboard I use @home and I´m highly interested in a 76 or 73 keys version DP offering excellent EPs and decent AP plus some bread&butter sounds in addition. But I ignored the CP73 because of that action issue, many users seem to recognize, others don´t and Yamaha doesn´t care. At least, that´s what I read ... Was that a mechanical construction issue they weren´t able to fix because firmware updates cannot fix hardware problems and changing the action for 73 models would be too expensive to realize ? Or is it really fixed w/ models we can buy NOW ? A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charleston Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Yamaha is making great Wurlitzer emulations in new CP and YC series. Even the one in Reface CP is excellent. Yes, and the YouTube video "Jack's REAL Wurlitzer Vs. Our TOP Keyboard Brands | Blindfold Challenge!" demonstrates this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 It's back... I just picked it up a short time ago right as the GC was closing. Haven't had time to download the new OS, I think I need a tutor. Elmer ......! Dueling Yamahas. How are you getting on with the CP88 again? Well, I did a Jazz trio gig last night behind a singer ( wait I thought I said I was done with singers...oh well ) and used the CP88 with the newly loaded update. . Before this saga, I"d actually thought you"d retired and relegated gigging to the rest of us suckers. Quote ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 Dave, do you feel the presence/absence of built-in speakers has any impact on how you feel about playing any of the boards? I find that the vibrations in your fingers when playing a board with built-in speakers makes it pleasantly more real feeling. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 I certainly liked having them. But no, even when I owned the P120, CP300 (which might have been the loudest internals on a stage dp ever) and played every week for a year at a hosted jam session on a provided P255, as soon as the volume rose above jazz brushes level, the internals became moot with regard to me even being able to hear them over the regular gigging speakers.True, stage volume with a drummer typically overwhelms your ability to hear any built-in speakers, but I think you still get the benefit of the sensation of feeling them. I've suspected that might be why so many people continued to swear by that CP300 regardless of the boards with better actions and better sounds that followed it! Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 On the bright side, you are creating a lucrative B-stock market. Quote AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pa Gherkin Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 [ So, what´s up w/ that in the web endless discussed CP73´s action issue, the CP 88 doesn´t introduce ? Were you able working around or did you have simply luck w/ your CP73 ? I also own a 88 weighted keys keyboard I use @home and I´m highly interested in a 76 or 73 keys version DP offering excellent EPs and decent AP plus some bread&butter sounds in addition. But I ignored the CP73 because of that action issue, many users seem to recognize, others don´t and Yamaha doesn´t care. At least, that´s what I read ... Was that a mechanical construction issue they weren´t able to fix because firmware updates cannot fix hardware problems and changing the action for 73 models would be too expensive to realize ? Or is it really fixed w/ models we can buy NOW ? A.C. I have the same concerns as A.C. Anyone here have any insight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 The 73 and 88 actions are completely different designs. The customizable velocity curves introduced with the new update "should" address the shortcomings people found in the responsiveness of the 73 in particular... but I haven't seen real world comments from users yet. Possibly to some extent because the people who bought and kept the 73 in the first place weren't too disappointed in the feel, while those who were disappointed in the feel after trying it didn't buy (or returned) it... meaning that the population of people who currently own one and thought such an update was really needed might not be very large. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 I like the action of my CP 73, it plays like a Wurlitzer 200, which is why I wanted it, in addition to the smaller form factor and lighter weight of the CP 88. I agree with everything Scott posted above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 The 73 and 88 actions are completely different designs. The customizable velocity curves introduced with the new update "should" address the shortcomings people found in the responsiveness of the 73 in particular... I really doubt velocity curves can fix blackkey´s repetition and partially noisy keys problems. Velocity curves affect all keys and not only the black ones. So, I have still the impression Yamaha ignores the issue. A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 I really doubt velocity curves can fix blackkey´s repetition and partially noisy keys problems. Good point that people have reported a variety of issues of concern, I had only been thinking of the one I'd noticed myself. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuelBLupowitz Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 Yamaha is making great Wurlitzer emulations in new CP and YC series. Even the one in Reface CP is excellent. Yes, and the YouTube video "Jack's REAL Wurlitzer Vs. Our TOP Keyboard Brands | Blindfold Challenge!" demonstrates this.As someone who basically replaced a Wurli 200 with the CP88 in my gigging rig, it took me a minute to appreciate the Wurlitzer in the CP88, between dialing in the drive/EQ and also just the entirely different experience of playing a Wurlitzer sound on a fully weighted stage piano action. But now that I've settled into all of that, the accuracy of the sample is quite eerie. Quote Samuel B. Lupowitz Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickiefunk Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 It's back... I just picked it up a short time ago right as the GC was closing. Haven't had time to download the new OS, I think I need a tutor. Elmer ......! Dueling Yamahas. How are you getting on with the CP88 again? Well, I did a Jazz trio gig last night behind a singer ( wait I thought I said I was done with singers...oh well ) and used the CP88 with the newly loaded update. First off, the Hamburg piano is nice listening with my Senn HD650s at home but live, through speakers, it sounds thin compared to the CFX. Essentially like all the other pianos included. Second, while the velocity tweaks help a bit, I still feel it has more of a band aid effect. The inherent or basic feel of the action is not like the CP4 or the P515 -- as substantial and closer to an acoustic grand. I still felt myself sort of sluggish, along with having to force my flow on my solos ( and my chops are up, I've been practicing a lot lately) and not really able to match the energy of the bass and drums when the intensity of the music started rising. The CP88 sound is SO much better then the CP4 but I feel I'm not playing at full capability (well it's a dp and there's that) when I'm using it. I'm not certain what I'm going to do at this point, it is a quandary. I really like having the CP88 literally at an arm's reach in the office, it sounds great with phones. Also it's simply much more fun and inspiring to play then the CP4. But I already have the greatest DP currently on the market in the AG N3X a mere 40 feet away in the living room. And that's actually seeing quite a bit of use just because I love the acoustics in our living room...actually better then in my studio with the Steinway...but that's a different issue. I have a little over a month to decide what to do before the 45 day GC return policy expires. I could just keep it, I'm not gigging that frequently, maybe a few times a month. But I'm worried 9 months down the road it would really bug me and then I'd be stuck with it. If someone called me for a last minute gig tonight, I'm sorry to say the CP4 would probably be my instrument of choice at this juncture.. Interesting. I"m not finding the Hamburg too thin. Recently did a gig at a venue with a KV2 install and thought it sounded very natural. I am playing Yamaha and Kawai acoustic pianos daily and have had a fair amount experience on Steinway and find the action surprisingly good and I personally prefer it to the Nord Stage 3 which I tried on a few gigs. I wish the CP88 had sympathetic string resonance and release samples on all the pianos along with adjustable hammer and pedal noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted November 16, 2021 Author Share Posted November 16, 2021 It's back... I just picked it up a short time ago right as the GC was closing. Haven't had time to download the new OS, I think I need a tutor. Elmer ......! Dueling Yamahas. How are you getting on with the CP88 again? Well, I did a Jazz trio gig last night behind a singer ( wait I thought I said I was done with singers...oh well ) and used the CP88 with the newly loaded update. First off, the Hamburg piano is nice listening with my Senn HD650s at home but live, through speakers, it sounds thin compared to the CFX. Essentially like all the other pianos included. Second, while the velocity tweaks help a bit, I still feel it has more of a band aid effect. The inherent or basic feel of the action is not like the CP4 or the P515 -- as substantial and closer to an acoustic grand. I still felt myself sort of sluggish, along with having to force my flow on my solos ( and my chops are up, I've been practicing a lot lately) and not really able to match the energy of the bass and drums when the intensity of the music started rising. The CP88 sound is SO much better then the CP4 but I feel I'm not playing at full capability (well it's a dp and there's that) when I'm using it. I'm not certain what I'm going to do at this point, it is a quandary. I really like having the CP88 literally at an arm's reach in the office, it sounds great with phones. Also it's simply much more fun and inspiring to play then the CP4. But I already have the greatest DP currently on the market in the AG N3X a mere 40 feet away in the living room. And that's actually seeing quite a bit of use just because I love the acoustics in our living room...actually better then in my studio with the Steinway...but that's a different issue. I have a little over a month to decide what to do before the 45 day GC return policy expires. I could just keep it, I'm not gigging that frequently, maybe a few times a month. But I'm worried 9 months down the road it would really bug me and then I'd be stuck with it. If someone called me for a last minute gig tonight, I'm sorry to say the CP4 would probably be my instrument of choice at this juncture.. Interesting. I"m not finding the Hamburg too thin. Recently did a gig at a venue with a KV2 install and thought it sounded very natural. I am playing Yamaha and Kawai acoustic pianos daily and have had a fair amount experience on Steinway and find the action surprisingly good and I personally prefer it to the Nord Stage 3 which I tried on a few gigs. I wish the CP88 had sympathetic string resonance and release samples on all the pianos along with adjustable hammer and pedal noise. I"m also finding more than the CFX very useful depending on the room and style of music and instruments in the duo, trio, etc. I"m using a 10' monitor, and I do change sample set and/or eq for the room if I arrive early enough (which is always desirable - but you never know with traffic around here). I do wish I had a solution for stereo sample libraries short of bringing two monitors, but that"s a topic for the ages. I don"t find having control of the velocity curve to tailer behavior to taste a bandaid. It should be on all digital pianos - particularly those with more than one sample library. Most just give us three curves in the settings to pick from - soft, medium, hard. Being able to save the setting with category is helpful. Being able to save it with patch would be even better. Having it mirror at the midi out for software instruments would be time saving - but they have such plugins in DAWs and hosts. People are asking for some darker instruments to be sampled and included with an update. The Hamburg is a good sign they are listening, as is the recent survey about what character instruments we"d like to see added next. Yes, sympathetic resonance algorithm and release samples would be nice. With band the sound guy is going to narrow my audio spectrum and fit me in someplace in the mix that would sound like arse for solo playing. So I don"t bother worrying about anything but how it sounds to me. We"re talking about the best of the slab digital pianos available to giggers at the moment. Second hand CP4, P-515, CP88. RD2000 (not my favorite action for piano and heavy), MP11SE (no way I"m carrying it). Sometimes you just have to pick and run with it. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJUSCULE Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 Starting to seriously think about a CP73 to go below my NS3 for a tour this summer... I like the sound of the action feeling like a Wurly, as the band I'll be playing with has a lot of it. We'll see if I can swing the budget. Quote Eric Website Gear page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 We"re talking about the best of the slab digital pianos available to giggers at the moment. Second hand CP4, P-515, CP88. RD2000 (not my favorite action for piano and heavy), MP11SE (no way I"m carrying it). Sometimes you just have to pick and run with it. Yeah, whether pianos or clonewheels, you can chase the nth degree of satisfaction forever. Different ones will offer different temptations, but also everything will find some way to disappoint you! Yeah, that MP11SE is heavy, but Kawai has some nice more portable boards too. I like Nord and Dexibell for piano too, but I know some people can't get by the Fatar actions (though the Nord Grand uses a Kawai action). Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickiefunk Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Is it possible to buy third party sound expansions for the CP88 like the the MODX and Montage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 Yamaha controls the uploading of wave forms to the CP88 via firmware. And they haven"t included a 'sample synth' as one may find on Nord. That said creating and saving patches on the CP88 is very easy given it"s new user interface. If creating patches is not your cup of tea - a creative programmer could make a few bucks manipulating the CP88"s user interface and selling a patch collection to download on PC and upload to the CP88 via USB thumb drive. As a community of owners - sharing patches should be happening already. Is there a CP88 group already on Facebook or a YamahaSynth.com forum"s? Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Is it possible to buy third party sound expansions for the CP88 like the the MODX and Montage? Elaborating on what Elmer said, since there's no way for anyone but Yamaha to add new samples or new voices, all a third party could offer would be their own Live Sets, which can only be different combinations and tweaks of the sounds that are already in the board. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 Is it possible to buy third party sound expansions for the CP88 like the the MODX and Montage? Elaborating on what Elmer said, since there's no way for anyone but Yamaha to add new samples or new voices, all a third party could offer would be their own Live Sets, which can only be different combinations and tweaks of the sounds that are already in the board. Yamaha traditionally likes clear delineation below the flagship workstation - What are they marketing as a synth, what"s a stage piano. Different price points, which models are going to get their better actions. They"ve crossed lines before - like with the S70/90 series. The change of user interface and having an organ engine (and sort of an FM) on the YC shows they are starting to get the picture as far as who they are competing with. Big company, slow response to changes in the market. Still have the best actions, quality sounds and build quality. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrpheusNY Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Yamaha controls the uploading of wave forms to the CP88 via firmware. And they haven"t included a 'sample synth' as one may find on Nord. That said creating and saving patches on the CP88 is very easy given it"s new user interface. If creating patches is not your cup of tea - a creative programmer could make a few bucks manipulating the CP88"s user interface and selling a patch collection to download on PC and upload to the CP88 via USB thumb drive. As a community of owners - sharing patches should be happening already. Is there a CP88 group already on Facebook or a YamahaSynth.com forum"s? Yamaha has an in-house app called Soundmondo. Users share patches with other users for free; it"s not monetized. The UI is a little klunky, but there are a decent number of programs there for the CP-88, including some from the Yamaha product specialists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 Yamaha controls the uploading of wave forms to the CP88 via firmware. And they haven"t included a 'sample synth' as one may find on Nord. That said creating and saving patches on the CP88 is very easy given it"s new user interface. If creating patches is not your cup of tea - a creative programmer could make a few bucks manipulating the CP88"s user interface and selling a patch collection to download on PC and upload to the CP88 via USB thumb drive. As a community of owners - sharing patches should be happening already. Is there a CP88 group already on Facebook or a YamahaSynth.com forum"s? Yamaha has an in-house app called Soundmondo. Users share patches with other users for free; it"s not monetized. The UI is a little klunky, but there are a decent number of programs there for the CP-88, including some from the Yamaha product specialists. Thanks for the info! I'm going to join. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Just a FYI, Soundmondo doesn't work in Safari so you'll need google chrome if using a Mac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadroj Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 YC-73 is a possible trade in option for me. I'm yet to try it out, will hopefully get the chance soon. I don't care about heavy graded keys, I'm not primarily a pianist - I grew up playing a mini-piano, which I'd describe as feeling like a solid, high quality semi-weighted keybed. Nor am I an organist, though I do 99% of gigs on Nord's version of the TP-8O. I practice at home on weighted keys, but haven't played weighted keys live in over 6 years. On a previous page in this thread I read that someone compared the CP-73 action (which I gather is the same as the YC-73) to that of a wurly, which I love the feeling of. Blake Angelos also compared it to a decent rhodes, though I've given up listening to marketing talk. How is it? Is it spongy or light? Light enough to play organ/synth parts with minimum force (despite lack of high trigger point) or a bit heavier than that? Heavy enough to play more accurately than a waterfall action? Quote Hammond SKX Mainstage 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted December 1, 2021 Author Share Posted December 1, 2021 CP piano is featured solo at start and in band context just prior to 6 minutes. [video:youtube] Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 Man so many good players out there.... Quote "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 Fabulous, unreal playing, and Yamaha never sounded better. Thanks for that, EJF! Quote ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted December 2, 2021 Author Share Posted December 2, 2021 I opened a different browser and listened so I wouldn't process any of it visually. The CP88 sounded like a good Yamaha C7 or C7X mic'ed up in the studio. Highly clear and detailed. Yeah I like Sorin, great player. Nice arrangement of a cool piece. Rhythm section, Tenor player and Cimbalom player all were killing it. Thanks, great demo for the CP88. I really shouldn't have taken mine back yet again and got the Nord Grand instead....... .....just kidding. Ok closer inspection, he may be using the CP88 as a controller - if you can get this video on a big enough screen can anyone confirm only the USB cable is plugged in? In which case it"s likely a VST piano in the mix. If so, which one? Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 Just confirmed no cables into audio outputs. USB and both footswitch inputs are the only ones in use. No guesses from me which VST is being used. My ears are not that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted December 2, 2021 Author Share Posted December 2, 2021 Just confirmed no cables into audio outputs. USB and both footswitch inputs are the only one in use. No guesses from me which VST is being used. My ears are not that good. I bet Dave is not far off from his call that it"s something like the C7. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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