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Movie soundtracks - want to imitate?


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I am a movie lover and really love it when a movie soundtrack is powerful and majestic and and ....

 

Most (if not all) of these are probably done with a full orchestra as opposed to pro keyboards playing back samples, etc, that's my guess.

 

I just watched this little off the wall movie called Old Henry - a dark western, edgy, tense, really good movie. At the sad ending, there was this amazing song called The Grave Stone that practically brought me to tears with the interplay of the pianos, strings, cellos, and all that.

 

With that long-winded preamble out of the way, it made me wish I could somehow imitate the sounds of something that amazing using keyboards. Do any of you dabble in this area for fun? I'm not saying I aspire to be Hans Zimmer or John Williams, I just wonder if any of you make your own music like this and what kind of equipment (software) you use to do it.

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Kronos 88, Korg CX-3, Motion Sound KBR-3D

 

 

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I have a friend who runs a movie scoring company. He does custom scores for indie features, and they also have a massive library of original stuff to be licensed for trailers, temp scores, etc. He does it all with MIDI and a controller. No live sessions, no orchestras, etc. He told me that the John Williams" of the world are now the exception.
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"He told me that the John Williams" of the world are now the exception."

 

But John Williams was always the exception. His scores are fantastic, but they were also scores from some of he suggest movies of all time. He's probably the only film composer who came close to being a household name, JUST for his score to Star Wars. The fact that he also scored the Indiana Jones films, and ET, and numerous other super popular films is just an added bonus. The number of film composers who have achieved any level of notoriety outside of film circles is miniscule. Hans Zimmer, Ennio Morricone, maybe a few others.

 

There's no doubt that incredible sounding and very realistic sounding music can be made with sample libraries. I'd suggest checking out the stuff from Spitfire Audio, as much of their stuff intended specifically for film scoring, and they have a wide range of fantastic stuff that's free or only $30. They often run sales, too. in fact, this month, all their Hans Zimmer libraries are on sale.

 

Also check out Composer Magazine: https://composer.spitfireaudio.com

 

There are lots of really good interviews and bits of inspiration in there.

 

What's really interesting is how many people ARE still using full orchestras (after doing all thir composing and mockups with sample libraries). And not just bog high profile stuff, either. They have an interview with the composer of the TV show Stargirl, which I would've thought would not be big enough to get a full orchestra treatment, but they do indeed record each episode's music with a real orchestra.

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My understanding is that full-scale mockups using nothing but VI's are the norm now. For high-budget films some real orchestra will be added, but it will usually be supplemented with the VI parts from what I have read. There's an awesome group on Facebook called "Virtual Orchestration" if you're interested in exploring this further. Christian Henson, the president of Spitfire Audio, has a YouTube channel full of info on orchestral programming techniques as well.

 

Typical libraries used are EastWest Hollywood Orchestra, Spitfire Studio Orchestra, Spitfire BBC Symphonic Orchestra, the 8DIO Century series, Orchestral Tool's libraries, Embertone strings, the Cinematic Studio Series brass and strings, Aaron Venture Infinite Woodwinds (and others), Kirk Hunter orchestra, and lots of others.

 

I currently have the Discover version of Spitfire's BBC Symphonic Orchestra (which I got for free by completing a survey, which you can do too), IK Miroslav Philharmonic 2 CE, NI Studio Strings 2, IK Orchestral Percussion and Cinematic Percussion, Embertone's Blakus Cello, and a number of other specialized programs. I haven't had a lot of time to use it all yet though.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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A lot of media composer on low budget will use libraries and combine with one or more live instruments. The adding the a real one or two real instruments helps make the libraries sound real. Spitfire just did a YT showing using a string quartet mixed with library worth checking out.

 

Junkie XL AKA Tom Holkenborg is becoming a busy film composer and has does a lot of YT's on his work. He talks about how he get called for scores from all electric, combinations libraries and live, and big budget real orchestras. He composes with libraries and synths the finishes according to budget.

 

Media Composer is getting to be a good gig these days with Games, Sound Design, corporate music, TV a lot of work. Games are becoming really big productions and some excellent YT on games composers going back to the Sega and other early games that had live orchestras in the game music. It's real interesting in how game music has to be written to loop at almost any point because game has to change according to what the player does.

 

I find Media composing and film very interesting and some good YT channels that breakdown film and game scores.

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Fascinating topic that I enjoy quite a bit - a lot of times I rewatch movies to focus on the score. The breadth / diversity scores has increased a lot. I still tend to prefer the more traditional scores, but it's nice to see the palette of colors opening from the influences of Holst/Wagner/Stravinsky and so many other classical composers

 

From I what I've seen and played around with, one of the key for convincing imitation is really knowing how to modulate the sounds to give dynamics, movement. The spitfire videos show this often.

 

Second the facebook Orchestration group, and the Spitfire Videos. There's a guy who did a midi mockup for a few scores with Logic stock plugins and sells them as a package, bought it and found it interesting.

 

Found this youtube video fascinating to study from, sections from several movies rearranged for a smaller orchestra which is easy to follow

 

A few Channels I like

Andrew Gerlicher Music https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6zSbU6eyhUb8NURHH0Yy_g

John Powell https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo00fLTBosL4EGGhi164cEQ

Christopher Siu https://www.youtube.com/c/ChristopherSiu

Nico Schuele https://www.youtube.com/c/NicoSchuele/videos

Spitfire https://www.youtube.com/user/spitfireaudiollp

Classical Score https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaosgwkl6ObZhZEvT5ZSCbw

Korg Kronos X73 / ARP Odyssey / Motif ES Rack / Roland D-05 / JP-08 / SE-05 / Jupiter Xm / Novation Mininova / NL2X / Waldorf Pulse II

MBP-LOGIC

American Deluxe P-Bass, Yamaha RBX760

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Nice links! I have an interest in cinematic music too. My kids grew up loving movies like Harry Potter, Star Wars and Marvel, and it's made them more open to what Nick at SonicState would call "filmic." The general population is also trending toward acceptance. All of us are spending more time at the movies, which are introducing us to a variety of timbres, genres and musical moods. Somebody mentioned that the movie industry is now the biggest source of jobs for classically trained musicians.

 

I love the music, particularly of John Williams, Ennio Morricone, Thomas Newman, Hans Zimmer and the late Johann Johannson. But I also admire the previous composers on whose shoulders they stand (Hermann, Korngold, Barry, Holst, Stravinsky etc.)

 

Earlier this year I obtained couple of Spitfire orchestral libraries (Abbey Road One Orchestral Foundation and Studio Strings). I expect to pick up a general purpose library by the end of the year (perhaps BBCSO or Hollywood Opus edition). For me it's a fun, amateur pursuit at this point. There are longstanding members in our community who are true professionals at this.

 

If you are delving into this area it would be a pleasure to hear about your adventures. Rod, your daughter is lovely and brings memories of my daughter when I used to be able to carry her ...

 

Warmly,

 

Jerry

 

PS: Here is a conversation about movie music, we enjoyed previously.

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I also find that a good score adds a TON to a movie (or show, thinking of "Light of the Seven" from what I consider the best episode of "tv" ever, season 6 ep 10 of Game of Thrones.)

 

The most emotional song from a score for me is "Compass and Guns" from Shawshank Redemption. The combination of the music and Red's narration gets me every time. The last two selections from Gravity with those visuals also come to mind.

 

I am by no means a "composer" but was working on a remix of an old band original where the goal was to do an orchestral version. I found the strings in Logic and Kontakt were ok for solo/chamber/intimate strings but the only big epic strings I had didn't sound that great. I ended up picking up a Spitfire's "Originals" strings for 30 bucks (I think it's a small selection from Albion) and it sounds great.

 

This is going to sound silly--and not soundtrack-related--but I did a cover of Shadow Dancing (yep, Andy Gibb) as a proof of concept to the band (I sing it). well, I had a devil of a time trying to get that disco strings sound. Everything I had, including the Spitfire strings, lacked the bite and impact of those "disco strings'. Live, I layer a horn part with it to get it more impact, and as I'm an established anti-horn-part keyboard player that is saying something!

 

I watched a pretty interesting youtube vid--useful for noobs like me--that explained a few techniques for playing strings. Chiefly one is, play intervals that a real string player would play, and play "chords" as multiple solo parts using those intervals. In other works, don't just plunk down big block chords like amateur keys players (raises hand) tend to do! I've started doing this more with synths as well.

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Most of the composers today are doing sound design as well. Then combine that with the mixers is amazing how using sound they can control where you are looking on the screen. It really is amazing how much a score and sound design is key to movies, TV, and games.
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I know Hans Zimmer kind of gets joked about for his "braams" (those low ominous horn sound thingies). There was a brief part of the Dune soundtrack that I noted in particular--when Paul had his hand in the pain box, mastered his pain and raised his eyes in defiance. The soundtrack at that moment gave me chills.

 

Completely oddball side thought. I was watching some boxing recently and thought (because this is super important): what music would I play during my ring walk?

The correct answer of course is Anvil of Crom from Basil Poledouris.

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I wonder when people will finally tire of the formulaic soundtrack effects canned as presets in software plugins. They all seem to share the same pattern when marketed, the dramatic build ups, pauses and delicate bridges. You get libraries of build ups, pauses and delicate bridges. Ultimately there are a limited few ways to combine and put them to use (in the context of a film trailer at least). You can get free libraries of this to make your home movies Hollywood-like in iMovie.

 

I cannot stand John Williams soundtracks. They almost sound the same to me. I am amazed how fans can identify the different themes from all of the Star Wars episodes. That might seem typically geeky but the fan base spans and includes more than one entire generation. I might be able to identify the original. Using John Williams has become something in and of itself. It is a status symbol. Ron Howard jumped on board almost immediately adopting visuals and audio mimicking Speilberg and Lucas. He started marketing his movies as "A Ron Howard Film" and the trailers shared a certain feel suggesting high quality. Whether he ever lived up to it in the product or not at least his films were introduced as though they were top tier peer level with Speilberg especially. There is a nationally syndicated Classical music station I listen to because it is the only Classical music station available in the area. It seems as though in order to hook some new listeners they decided to feature orchestral scores from movie soundtracks and games. It is one of the only ways to appear relevant to a younger demographic. The flaw in this concept is apparent when they solicit listener request comments. When someone says a truly Classical piece makes them envision battles in space their point of reference is obvious.

 

I much prefer the work of James Newton Howard, Danny Elfman and Gustavo Santaolalla. It is not on a checklist but coincidentally their film scores cannot be generalized and canned as a plugin. From the first moments of the opening scenes I love the moody soundtracks as much as many of the films in which they have scored.

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No doubt there is a formula which is being beaten to death. The spiccato ostinati are an example as are the swooshes you mention. I guess take what you like and ignore the rest? Music is a conservative art form, relying on well established tropes. The more popular the music, the simpler the tropes, typically. Movie music is in the service of story and so it doesn"t utilize the same forms a symphony could. It is true that some soundtracks have a 'suite', but many composers write those suites prior to developing 'cues' which anchor the action and illuminate the characters. At my local symphony 'Star Wars Day' is often sold out, but the audience sticks around for Rach 2 after the intermission. Personally, I love John Williams" melodies and orchestration techniques. No doubt he owes a lot to Holst, Wagner et al. He is the most cited composer (with HZ not far behind?) and there will be a (healthy) backlash at some point, leading to new tropes. But I love Elfman too. And Johannson (RIP) and John Powell who is a bit from the "more is more" (John Williams-ish) school.
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Here are some enjoyable discussions of Johannson's very bespoke "Arrival" soundtrack and John Powell's more conventional "How to train your dragon" soundtrack ...

 

[video:youtube]

 

Unfortunately, the latter will require a free registration at mix-with-the-masters to watch all five videos. I found it hugely informative however (I am not affiliated with MWTM, I just joined for the John Powell videos, which are free.)

 

https://mixwiththemasters.com/itt31#part-1

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Loved both of those, I remember the score in HTTYD during the scene with the dragon drawing with the tree and Hiccup stepping between the lines was especially good.

 

If I recall correctly, Johansen was working on Blade Runner 2049 but I guess it wasn't quite the thing Denis V was looking for...in any case they ended up going with Hans Zimmer pretty late iirc.

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Yes, it was a disappointment when Johannson was dropped wasn't it? Not that HZ and Wallfisch aren't amazingly competent but I felt JJ would push the envelope in the same manner that Vangelis did, even if he didn't create a Vangelis-like soundtrack. I guess the director, Denis Villeneuve, had a particular, familiar tone in mind, and JJ was not headed that way ...

 

https://collider.com/blade-runner-2049-composer-replacement-explained-johann-johannsson/

 

There is a set of posthumous recordings called "Gold Dust" which eager fans have surmised are the unfinished 2049 tunes repurposed for an opera, but an equally compelling case can be made that they were written specifically for the opera. Remarkable music ...

 

[video:youtube]

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Junkie XL AKA Tom Holkenborg is becoming a busy film composer and has does a lot of YT's on his work.

 

I'd say he has been a quite established one for a long while now. I think he started out as Zimmer's sidekick sort of but now he's on his own. Used to also do them under his previous artist moniker, now he uses his real name.

 

As most of you know, he also had a MASSIVE hardware collection in a huge room, pretty much everything you could every imagine - sold most of it. He seems to use a lot of Kontakt, a lot of "ITB". As most of you said, that seems to be the norm.

 

 

Media Composer is getting to be a good gig these days with Games, Sound Design, corporate music, TV a lot of work. Games are becoming really big productions and some excellent YT on games composers going back to the Sega and other early games that had live orchestras in the game music. It's real interesting in how game music has to be written to loop at almost any point because game has to change according to what the player does.

 

I have a lot of interest in this field (Media Composer). It seems that it's where it's at, if you want to keep working in music. Do you have any insight into this, what's a good way to get started?

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Console games are a HUGE industry (bigger than movies, I think) and they do sometimes use real orchestras as well.

 

I have been left lukewarm by most game compositions, but there are exceptions. Like Nioh (1 & 2), a Japanese samurai RPG. They used a real orchestra. Absolutely beautiful music too.

 

[video:youtube]

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Some really good video game soundtracks out there. Diablo 2 had a great one.

 

One of my very favorites is from Wow of all things...the music in the Ashenvale zone, linked below. There's also Lament of the Highborne, which is sung by in-game characters when you complete a certain quest.

 

[video:youtube]

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