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Kurzweil pc4-7 I've tried, but I think I'll get rid if it


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I had a PC3 76 which I really liked, but this is kinda just dull. I don't like the springy bounce in the keys, nor the plastic feeling little keys. I can't find a velocity setting I really like. 2 gigs, couldn't get a good equalization out of the PA. Sounds better through headphones. Actually, there really isn't a wow sound in any new piano, electric piano sounds, and Kb3 double rotary is still a warble. So, some advise. My Electro 5D works great for me in my band setting of piano, electric piano and organ, but I need a board for duo gigs with an acoustic guitar. I'd like a better variety of sounds that has good drums, basses, strings and horns. Any suggestions? I had wished the PC4 7 was it.
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Cheap actions is how the keyboard manufacturers have reduced price on models like the FA-06, MODX6, PC4-7, Krome and lots of others. I would argue, however, that they all have had to trickle down better sounds to lower price points in the process to compete.

 

For your needs I would take a look at Korg VOX Continental, Roland VR-730 to see if your specific sound needs are met on a somewhat better feeling action. Above that price point try YC-61 and Roland Jupiter X, Montage.

 

Has anyone played the newer Roland Fantom 61? The specs say semi-weight. How"s it compare with what you get on the FA or Jupiter?

 

Jupiter X

 

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

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Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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I had a PC3 76 which I really liked, but this is kinda just dull. I don't like the springy bounce in the keys, nor the plastic feeling little keys.

There's always a good deal of subjectivity to actions. I used the Artis 7 which had the same action as the PC3... I really disliked it as shipped, it just pushed back to much against my fingers. I know it was designed to be a kind of compromise between piano and organ, but I didn't like it for either. I like the PC4-7 action better than that, for both piano and organ, despite the fact that it does feel stiffer toward the rear, a common flaw that the PC3/Artis7 action managed to avoid. But, as some here may remember, I swapped lighter springs into my Artis 7, and then I liked it a lot. So then, yeah, I'd take it over the PC4-7 action... but I still like the PC4-7 action quite a bit.

 

there really isn't a wow sound in any new piano, electric piano sounds

Again, it's subjective, but I quite like "Recital Piano," better than any of the older pianos I had in the Artis 7, or my PC361 before that which would have had the same sounds as your PC3. For Rhodes, I tend to like darker ones, so SuitcaseXFX works for me, or Dave Weiser's freely available PC4Rooftop 73... or for something with more bell, DW's PC4Amped Bell 73. For Wurly, my stock choice was She's Not There, before DW's DWClassic Wurly. But if you prefer some of your other PC3 EPs, you should be able to load them into the PC4 (and you can find the file online, with all the PC3 programs). Or take advantage of the flashplay and add Purgatory Creeks excellent EPs, which also comes with some really strong Clavinets.

 

My Electro 5D works great for me in my band setting of piano, electric piano and organ, but I need a board for duo gigs with an acoustic guitar. I'd like a better variety of sounds that has good drums, basses, strings and horns. Any suggestions? I had wished the PC4 7 was it.
For an "unplugged duo" where your keyboard has to also provide the drums, I'd strongly look at an arranger, like the Korg PA1000... not that you couldn't do backing drums with a PC4 "song" but it's the kind of thing that Arrangers are kind of made for, with their dedicated buttons and other features to more easily handle different song sections, fills, intros/endings if need be.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Cheap actions is how the keyboard manufacturers have reduced price on models like the FA-06, MODX6, PC4-7, Krome and lots of others.
Not just reduced price, it also seems to correspond with reduced travel weight.

 

For your needs I would take a look at Korg VOX Continental, Roland VR-730 to see if your specific sound needs are met on a somewhat better feeling action. Above that price point try YC-61 and Roland Jupiter X, Montage.

Vox and YC61 have no drums. Even the ones you mentioned that have drums may not necessarily be so strong there, in flexibility/control.

 

Has anyone played the newer Roland Fantom 61? The specs say semi-weight. How"s it compare with what you get on the FA or Jupiter?

I played it VERY briefly. I'd say it's definitely better feeling than the FA (not just the 06 but also the 07). Not sure how I'd compare it with the Jupiter 50 or Jupiter 80 (two actions that, themselves, are pretty different from each other).

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Ah, I missed that drums were a priority. Then I suppose the question is - are you playing drums or sequencing drums from a laptop, or prefer beats and pattern design in the keyboard itself, or is the OP really looking for an arranger keyboard? A can think of two of those that have better actions than the PC4-7, but they are going to cost $$$.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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I still see the Vox Continental as way underpriced.

 

Don't tell Korg/Vox! :)

 

As an aside, I for some reason had put this keyboard into the "don't need it, it's just a vox organ sound and I don't normally need that" and so had learned nothing about it until I saw comments on this page.

 

Wow, that thing is pretty impressive, especially if it's got nice action on it. The cx3 engine sounded better than what I've heard from the Kronos cx3. I've kind of leaning toward a more complex light 88, but the Vox looks super fun. And I reckon I *would* start using more Vox organ sounds if I had one! :D

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I've got one I'm selling! It's extra to me since I have a Modx7. Trying to sell locally though first :)

 

Ironically those are instruments I've never pulled up on either instrument, other than strings. Interesting how we all have different needs.

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As an aside, I for some reason had put {Vox Continental } into the "don't need it, it's just a vox organ sound and I don't normally need that" and so had learned nothing about it until I saw comments on this page.

 

Wow, that thing is pretty impressive, especially if it's got nice action on it. The cx3 engine sounded better than what I've heard from the Kronos cx3. I've kind of leaning toward a more complex light 88, but the Vox looks super fun.

It has one of the nicest actions I've played. CX3 engine lags the Kronos largely by virtue of its relative lack of controls/customizability. Overall, it's not particularly versatile, but yes, it's fun. It's got a bunch of strong sounds, good keys, nice hands-on interface, and it weighs very little. It just has a nice vibe to it. Though the lack of a real display means you'll need a cheat sheet (or smartphone) to know where the sounds you want are.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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  • 3 weeks later...
Late to the party (I don't get on this Forum that often). I've been a Kurz' fan for the past 10+ years, after their PC3 series came out. I was looking forward to the PC4 being the end-all for me: 88 keys yet less weight than their previous 76 note PC3, plus all of that wonderful new technology. However after all of the negative reviews regarding the new key bed which really didn't impress anyone that I could see, I held off in the hopes that their 76 note version would mitigate that negative factor. I ordered one sight-unseen a few months ago and it lasted all of 24 hours before I attached the return label and sent it back. The key bed and cheapness was enough for me to not want this, and no amount of "better" sounds and capabilities was going to change my opinion. I went back to my beloved Artis 7 as the mainstay for performing. If Kurzweil continues to make such dramatic compromises in its product quality and utility in trade for weight and cost concessions, I'll be looking elsewhere.

Kurzweil PC4-7

Kurzweil Artis 7

Alto TS312 Powered Speakers (2)

Samson 6 channel mixer

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Artis 7 is still a nice board, and it does give you the TP/8P action, metal chassis, internal power supply... but I'm happy with the move to the PC4-7. Maybe the K2700 is for you?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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...2 gigs, couldn't get a good equalization out of the PA. Sounds better through headphones. Actually, there really isn't a wow sound in any new piano, electric piano sounds, and Kb3 double rotary is still a warble.

 

I also came from a PC3-76 (though I'm mostly a Yamaha user).

 

I've had an interesting time adjusting to the pianos in my PC4 (I have the 88); to be fair, I strongly disliked the pianos in the PC3. After owning it for around six months, I have a couple go-to programs. For a full concert-grand type piano, I use Program 6 Concert Piano with the reverb turned down (I also made a variation myself that's more suited to solo playing), Program 7 Fierce Rock Grand 9ft, Program 9 Seventies Piano, and Program 13 Stadium Pop Piano depending on the application.

 

However, I get most of my piano usage out of the 7' Yamaha grand in the PC4. I initially found all the provided 7' programs to be a little on the muddy/dark side. I ended up starting with Program 15 Studio Grand 7ft and made some EQ adjustments (specifically, cut a little of the low mids, boost the highs around 12kHz a little and dial in a smidge more bass), added a slightly longer release time, and turned off the reverb and chorus entirely. That for me gives me a good all-purpose piano that sounds more or less like a mic'ed up acoustic grand in the room. It's also the perfect piano patch for modern worship tunes as it also has characteristics of an upright. So I get around 80% of my piano tunes done using that one custom program. And I've been happy with how it sounds when others have played my board at a shared gig. Sounds like a mic'ed up grand somewhere in the room. Works for me.

 

For electric pianos, I was not terribly impressed with the included Rhodes, though it wasn't bad; it just never played right using my preferred piano velocity curve (Piano Touch). I found an EXCELLENT Rhodes MKII sampleset from Purgatory Creek (aka burningbusch here on our forum) that he has available for free. That is an incredibly good Rhodes soundset and blows away every other keyboard I've owned or played. And it's free and fits in the PC4 flash memory. He also has multiple other electro-mechanical libraries for other EP's etc on the site that are paid, which I also have. But in all honesty when I need a Rhodes, I use the MKII programs. Absolutely awesome. I highly recommend you check those out.

 

He also has some guitars that are much improved if you need that sort of thing.

 

...I'd like a better variety of sounds that has good drums, basses, strings and horns. Any suggestions? I had wished the PC4 7 was it.

 

My suggestion would be a Yamaha MODX7. The basses and horns will be great (better than the PC4 IMO), the drums will beat any other current keyboard, and the strings are second-best to Kurzweil (significantly better than Korg or Roland in my opinion). The one thing to note is that if you're planning on sequencing backing tracks, the MODX/Montage doesn't have a lot of sequencing facilities. I don't know how midi file import goes as I don't own one (I have the previous-gen Motif XF with a full sequencer), but that could potentially be a workaround. You do have drum patterns you can use in the performances, and with some programming you can have it set up much like an arranger board thanks to the 8-part Performance structure now (my Motif XF has a 4-part structure and I made a few with that, but it was much more limited since I could only have three backing instruments plus the lead instrument). Here's some examples of a guy who did just that with the Montage, but the process would be the same with the MODX.

 

[video:youtube]

 

Arranger boards, with the notable exception of the very high-priced Yamaha Genos, will not have as overall good of strings or most sounds in general as either the PC4 or MODX (or even flagship Roland/Korg boards). I've played most of said arranger keyboards.

 

So overall I'd say check out the piano EQ'ing suggestion above and get the free Rhodes MKII soundset from Purgatory Creek. If you still dislike the PC4-7, then consider the MODX7. That's my two cents.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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For electric pianos, I was not terribly impressed with the included Rhodes, though it wasn't bad; it just never played right using my preferred piano velocity curve (Piano Touch). I found an EXCELLENT Rhodes MKII sampleset from Purgatory Creek (aka burningbusch here on our forum) that he has available for free. That is an incredibly good Rhodes soundset and blows away every other keyboard I've owned or played. And it's free and fits in the PC4 flash memory. He also has multiple other electro-mechanical libraries for other EP's etc on the site that are paid, which I also have. But in all honesty when I need a Rhodes, I use the MKII programs. Absolutely awesome. I highly recommend you check those out.

 

MMM - Do parameters in the Purgatory Creek Rhodes MKII map pretty well to the PC4's controls?

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For electric pianos, I was not terribly impressed with the included Rhodes, though it wasn't bad; it just never played right using my preferred piano velocity curve (Piano Touch). I found an EXCELLENT Rhodes MKII sampleset from Purgatory Creek (aka burningbusch here on our forum) that he has available for free. That is an incredibly good Rhodes soundset and blows away every other keyboard I've owned or played. And it's free and fits in the PC4 flash memory. He also has multiple other electro-mechanical libraries for other EP's etc on the site that are paid, which I also have. But in all honesty when I need a Rhodes, I use the MKII programs. Absolutely awesome. I highly recommend you check those out.

 

MMM - Do parameters in the Purgatory Creek Rhodes MKII map pretty well to the PC4's controls?

 

haha, NOTHING maps very well to the PC4 controllers without a lot of work :D

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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...I'd like a better variety of sounds that has good drums, basses, strings and horns. Any suggestions? I had wished the PC4 7 was it.

 

My suggestion would be a Yamaha MODX7... The basses and horns will be great (better than the PC4 IMO)...with some programming you can have it set up much like an arranger board thanks to the 8-part Performance structure...Here's some examples of a guy who did just that with the Montage, but the process would be the same with the MODX.

I've seen that before, it's impressive that he's turned the Montage into that much of an arranger. But some things to think about are that the MODX only has 4 readily available select buttons rather than 8, and that I suspect the range of arrangements that seller supplies does not give you the variety you get with a PSR/PA series arranger, and editing/manipulating the arrangements to your taste is probably tricker. If it does what you need, great, but I think there likely are real tradeoffs when using something for a task it was not designed to do, compared to using something built for that task. The buttons (including the way they're grouped and labeled), the on-screen visual interface for manipulating things, etc., are optimized for different things. But for someone who prefers a MODX-like board but just needs a smattering of arranger functionality on top, it might be a cool solution. It's also nice that you can get it with more than 76 keys, at moderate cost, something you don't find in the actual arranger keyboards.

 

As for horns, coincidentally, I just today found out that this library is being adapted to PC4 (Ignore the sustain pedal use!): [video:youtube]

Though back on ths subject of arrangers, I really like the horns in my PA1000, too.

 

I wonder if they"ll do the K2700 in 76/73 semi-weight synth action. Or 61k for that matter.

That K2700 control surface won't fit over 61 keys. But a PC4SE...

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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For electric pianos, I was not terribly impressed with the included Rhodes, though it wasn't bad; it just never played right using my preferred piano velocity curve (Piano Touch). I found an EXCELLENT Rhodes MKII sampleset from Purgatory Creek (aka burningbusch here on our forum) that he has available for free. That is an incredibly good Rhodes soundset and blows away every other keyboard I've owned or played. And it's free and fits in the PC4 flash memory. He also has multiple other electro-mechanical libraries for other EP's etc on the site that are paid, which I also have. But in all honesty when I need a Rhodes, I use the MKII programs. Absolutely awesome. I highly recommend you check those out.

 

MMM - Do parameters in the Purgatory Creek Rhodes MKII map pretty well to the PC4's controls?

 

haha, NOTHING maps very well to the PC4 controllers without a lot of work :D

 

As they are out of the box, you get control over reverb, chorus, phaser, distortion, and key-off. Both slider and button (button just turns it on or off, slider controls the amount). So they do more or less.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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...I'd like a better variety of sounds that has good drums, basses, strings and horns. Any suggestions? I had wished the PC4 7 was it.

 

My suggestion would be a Yamaha MODX7... The basses and horns will be great (better than the PC4 IMO)...with some programming you can have it set up much like an arranger board thanks to the 8-part Performance structure...Here's some examples of a guy who did just that with the Montage, but the process would be the same with the MODX.

I've seen that before, it's impressive that he's turned the Montage into that much of an arranger. But some things to think about are that the MODX only has 4 readily available select buttons rather than 8, and that I suspect the range of arrangements that seller supplies does not give you the variety you get with a PSR/PA series arranger, and editing/manipulating the arrangements to your taste is probably tricker. If it does what you need, great, but I think there likely are real tradeoffs when using something for a task it was not designed to do, compared to using something built for that task. The buttons (including the way they're grouped and labeled), the on-screen visual interface for manipulating things, etc., are optimized for different things. But for someone who prefers a MODX-like board but just needs a smattering of arranger functionality on top, it might be a cool solution. It's also nice that you can get it with more than 76 keys, at moderate cost, something you don't find in the actual arranger keyboards.

 

A few thoughts. First, it is not clear from this thread whether or not full-on arranger functions are needed by the OP. Second, yes, there's the 4-scene limitation of the MODX, but my impression was that you could access the other four via the bank select switch next to the scene buttons? I could get by with the Motif's 5-button Performance arp switching options, which gave enough for an intro, verse pattern chorus pattern, a fill or bridge pattern, and an outro pattern. I'm not sure if that's all even needed for this specific case.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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A few thoughts. First, it is not clear from this thread whether or not full-on arranger functions are needed by the OP.
True, didn't mean to imply otherwise, just offering a perspective on that use.

 

Second, yes, there's the 4-scene limitation of the MODX, but my impression was that you could access the other four via the bank select switch next to the scene buttons?

Yes, but in watching the video, it seemed like there were a good number of quick button hits to accomplish the task at hand. Having to switch button banks on the fly to get to different sets of them in the moment may not be so practical. But, yes, it's also possible that the particular needs could be accomplished with four buttons.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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For electric pianos, I was not terribly impressed with the included Rhodes, though it wasn't bad; it just never played right using my preferred piano velocity curve (Piano Touch). I found an EXCELLENT Rhodes MKII sampleset from Purgatory Creek (aka burningbusch here on our forum) that he has available for free. That is an incredibly good Rhodes soundset and blows away every other keyboard I've owned or played. And it's free and fits in the PC4 flash memory. He also has multiple other electro-mechanical libraries for other EP's etc on the site that are paid, which I also have. But in all honesty when I need a Rhodes, I use the MKII programs. Absolutely awesome. I highly recommend you check those out.

MMM - Do parameters in the Purgatory Creek Rhodes MKII map pretty well to the PC4's controls?

haha, NOTHING maps very well to the PC4 controllers without a lot of work :D

As they are out of the box, you get control over reverb, chorus, phaser, distortion, and key-off. Both slider and button (button just turns it on or off, slider controls the amount). So they do more or less.

OK, thanks, sounds like a good start anyway...

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I'm looking forward to trying mine out; I have a purchased PC4 that hopefully will be in stock and shipped soon. I'm a bit anxious about it but I need to keep in mind how I felt about the MODX7 action when I first got it. I thought for sure it had to go back immediately, but I have made it work even for piano. If it's at least as good as the GHS on the MODX8 then I'll make it work.

 

The thought of having two wall wart keyboards is not a happy one but if you want light and reasonable price that's the reality it seems.

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Personally still quite fond of the PC4 (88-key Medeli) action. Even prefer it to many a (Tunisian) Fatar.

I'm still a fan overall as well. The only thing that bugs me isn't due to the action itself but rather the creaking of the plastic case itself at times when playing. It's really a pretty good action IMO. Decidedly better than the Fatar TP-100 variations for sure.

 

I had a MODX8. The PC4 action is way better.

I'm fairly familiar with the GHS action from multiple boards. They're both pretty decent feel-wise. I think the PC4 is only slightly better than the GHS, but that's because I like the GHS fairly well as it is.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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I'm fairly familiar with the GHS action from multiple boards. They're both pretty decent feel-wise. I think the PC4 is only slightly better than the GHS, but that's because I like the GHS fairly well as it is.
I'm happy with GHS in the MODX8 and the P125. Not the greatest, but adequate for a budget/lightweight action.

 

Very subjective though, I've seen posts here expressing very negative opinions on that action.

 

Cheers, Mike.

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I had a MODX8. The PC4 action is way better.

I'm fairly familiar with the GHS action from multiple boards. They're both pretty decent feel-wise. I think the PC4 is only slightly better than the GHS, but that's because I like the GHS fairly well as it is.

 

I had once a chance to touch something with GHS and Kurzweil SP6 in same shop. I believe that action of PC4 isn't much different from SP6. Kurzweil felt a bit better, but not a night and day difference.

Yamaha P-515, Korg SV-2 73, Kurzweil PC4-7

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I had a MODX8. The PC4 action is way better.

I'm fairly familiar with the GHS action from multiple boards. They're both pretty decent feel-wise. I think the PC4 is only slightly better than the GHS, but that's because I like the GHS fairly well as it is.

I'm happy with GHS in the MODX8 and the P125. Not the greatest, but adequate for a budget/lightweight action.

My own experience has been, it varies. Mike, do your MODX8 and P125 feel the same (with the sound off)?

I thought GHS on most of the GHS boards I've played felt okay but not great, with PC4 as good or better. But for some reason, the GHS on the MODX8 I played seemed to feel worse, kind of sluggish, and the GHS I played on a DGX-660 felt better than others, quicker. Subtle changes to the design over time? Variations from different production runs? Differences that arise from being differently mounted to a particular chassis design? I imagined it? Who knows?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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