Steinberg to shift to ID based licensing

[ElmerJFudd]

https://www.steinberg.net/licensing/

 

'You will soon be introduced to Steinberg Licensing, with the release of Dorico 4 early next year. I can also tell you that Cubase 12 has been moved to 2022, allowing it to be the next software after Dorico to harness the potential of the new system. As new versions of other products are released, they will use the new system, too.'

[Anderton]

Maybe I'm missing something, but that sounds like the way a lot of other software companies operate. Nonetheless, losing the eLicenser is good news. There would be times when it would show that I owned no products at all, which was usually followed by 15 minutes of troubleshooting

 

Considering that a lot of pro users are into Nuendo and Cubse, I can see why there would be pressure to eliminate all friction points for legitimate owners who are using the software on mission-critical projects.

[ElmerJFudd]

I think dropping the eLicenser recognizes the amount of work that is done on laptops which come along with us wherever we go and how inconvenient a physical key is for that. I still use an iLok for Avid ProTools, I"ve had to replace it a few times over the years due to loss or damage. They do allow you to license a machine now but the machine has to have constant access to the internet - internet gets spotty and the software shuts down.

[Docbop]

I don't like idea of having to connect to internet even if only every 30 days. As usual people stealing software make things a pain in the ass for legit users. One company I worked for we had dongle that contained a license key. You installed the software there there was a utility to move the license key off the dongle to the computer the software was on. After that the dongle was no longer needed. If you got a new computer then you ran the utility and moved the license key off the old computer and installed it on the new computer. So once the license key was installed you didn't need the dongle and didn't need the internet.

[Dr Mike Metlay]

I once spent an entire half hour in the Steinberg booth at a trade show watching a demonstrator (who was by NO means a noob) trying to get Cubase to work because his eLicenser barfed and he couldn't get the install to verify no matter what he did... and he had many more resources than the average jerk. Many years ago I decided to never use anything that needed an eLicenser, and have never regretted the decision.

[Mighty Motif Max]

There has been some healthy debate about this in the Steinberg/Cubase groups I'm part of. As a dedicated Cubase user, here are my thoughts...

 

Overall I think it's a fairly well-thought-out approach as it seems like they've thought of most potential issues that could happen (case in point - having a process for a license to be used for a year without re-generation for studio computers that don't connect every 30 days). I'm not fond of the 30-day connection idea otherwise despite the fact that my only computer is the same as my recording computer and it's online. I just don't like the idea.

 

However, having Cubase 10.5 Pro and being laptop-based and having to be very mobile, the required USB licenser sucks, not the least due to its iffy construction, but also the fact that if something did happen to it it's hundreds of dollars of software gone (yes, Zero Downtime is a thing but I don't live in an area where zero downtime is really a thing lol). For that reason I have the eLicenser usb here at college with me but I have just kept using Elements as I'm too concerned about using the USB much for fear of losing the license.

 

The one concern I have is this - since the exact language used by Steinberg regarding how licensing will work for older versions of Cubase prior to V12 basically says that all "currently-maintained" versions of Cubase will be updated to use the new licensing platform, I'm concerned about people with older versions (like me with 10.5 Pro as I have zero need to upgrade or a lot of folks are still using 8,9, or 10) losing the ability to regain their license if something happens. Since the eLicensers are no longer being manufactured now and the license server will be deactivated, and Zero Downtime is being eliminated, what is going to happen when someone's hardware eLicenser breaks? Or for those users using AI or Elements, which rely on the current soft-eLicenser service, what will happen when that server goes down permanently and they need to swap a hard drive or something? If only 11 on up will be made compatible with the new licensing system, it seems like it's going to force a lot of people to either pay significant $ to upgrade when they should NOT be forced to do so unless it's for an OS reason, or people will switch DAWs. Not to mention that sometimes you lose features when upgrading to a new version.

[vonnor]

I use Halion Sonic 3 for a couple dozen sounds in my current setup. There's a USB hub in my rack that holds an iLok and eLicenser no problem for live performance. I don't ever connect my "Music" laptop to the internet. So is this going to mess things up for me do you think?

 

~ vonnor

[Al Coda]

I don't ever connect my "Music" laptop to the internet.

 

But this is exactly what they want,- ALL want but not all announce up to now.

They want you to get used to being connected to the internet always because it´s all steps in the direction to the cloud and monthly/annual subscription.

Soonner or later, you´ll have your terminal @home and store everything you do in a software manufacturer´s cloud and rent their tools.

 

As a side effect, you´re completely under control via the internet.

 

Microsoft, Apple, Google, governments, police, intelligence corps and services,- they all want you to be connected to the internet 24/7.

 

 

A.C.

[Docbop]

I don't ever connect my "Music" laptop to the internet.

 

But this is exactly what they want,- ALL want but not all announce up to now.

They want you to get used to being connected to the internet always because it´s all steps in the direction to the cloud and monthly/annual subscription.

Soonner or later, you´ll have your terminal @home and store everything you do in a software manufacturer´s cloud and rent their tools.

 

As a side effect, you´re completely under control via the internet.

 

Microsoft, Apple, Google, governments, police, intelligence corps and services,- they all want you to be connected to the internet 24/7.

 

 

A.C.

 

and the reliability of your internet connection especially if using cloud managed software. Given the choice cloud managed or a dongle I'll take the dongle.

 

I hate the way the business world has been heading, they don't want people to own anything, but subscribe to everything. They want you on their leash forever.

[johnchop]

I'll just be happy to have the license on more than one machine.

 

As an Absolute user and someone who splits VST usage across computers, I'd like to be able to run,say, Retrologue on one and Halion on another.

[EscapeRocks]

I'll just be happy to have the license on more than one machine.

 

As an Absolute user and someone who splits VST usage across computers, I'd like to be able to run,say, Retrologue on one and Halion on another.

 

This is why I like the way Arturia, among others, do it.

 

They let you authorize a few machines. Then you use their software center. The only time I need to check in is when I want to see if there are updates.

[Mighty Motif Max]

I'll just be happy to have the license on more than one machine.

 

This is why I like the way Arturia, among others, do it.

 

They let you authorize a few machines. Then you use their software center. The only time I need to check in is when I want to see if there are updates.

Steinberg will allow 2 computers to have a license with this new system.

[Jonathan Hughes]

According to what someone from Steinberg posted in the Dorico forum on Facebook, shortly after the next version of Dorico comes out next year, they'll be releasing some kind of update to aid people who have issues connecting every 30 days. I assume that this will be for all Steinberg products and not just Dorico. This should help people with bad internet connections, and the seven people in 2022 who are still paranoid about connecting their computers to the internet.

[Al Coda]

 

This is why I like the way Arturia, among others, do it.

 

They let you authorize a few machines. Then you use their software center. The only time I need to check in is when I want to see if there are updates.

 

+1 for Arturia !

 

And,- this is exactly how (the very affordable and good sounding) Cherry Audio plugins work too !

I just installed and activated on 2 machines,- Win 7 Pro x64 4U-rackmount and Win10 Pro x64 laptop.

 

And while observing evolution of upcoming M1X Mac Mini, I appreciate CA natively supports that technology already.

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

Steinberg will allow 2 computers to have a license with this new system.

 

Yes, but the main point is they force you to be connected to the web w/ your audio machine,- at least every 30 days,- and not when YOU want to.

 

The same s##t makes Win10 an uncomfortable OS for DAW workstations.

Win10 and 11 freak out of when not being updated always,- so you have to power up your machine long before you start working,- just only to give it a chance for receiving actually available updates.

You can pause the installation of updates, but in background, Win10 is searching always nonetheless and even you´re not connected to the web.

It´s a process kicking in out of the blue and keeping your CPU busy.

 

So, when all software manufacturers start installing similar update manager-, authorization system service- and installation helper- clients on your machine, these toys want autostart and will fight for ressources.

In fact, sooner or later it´s not YOUR computer anymore.

These applications will act as spyware too, I´m sure.

There will be a lot of enthusiastic 3rd party tools necessary to control these processes and at the end of the day it will become too much effort to do so.

Already today I have to weak Win10 heavily using WinPrivacy to stop permanent homecalls because of user data gathering.

 

Now imagine the future when home-terminals are the only machines you can still buy,- no HDDs, no SSDs, not any storage media at all.

That´s the true target.

You have to rent capacity in the cloud and will get a lot more problems in regards of, for the time being still, copyrighted material.

 

Wet dream:

Material being stored in the cloud belongs to the provider of the infrastructure.

 

It´s not reality so far,- but I know it´s the target to make it legal by law in future.

 

Forumite "docbop" is right w/ his line above (quote):

[b]"I hate the way the business world has been heading, they don't want people to own anything, but subscribe to everything"[/b]

 

 

 

A.C.

[Anderton]

The one concern I have is this - since the exact language used by Steinberg regarding how licensing will work for older versions of Cubase prior to V12 basically says that all "currently-maintained" versions of Cubase will be updated to use the new licensing platform, I'm concerned about people with older versions (like me with 10.5 Pro as I have zero need to upgrade or a lot of folks are still using 8,9, or 10) losing the ability to regain their license if something happens.

 

If I were Steinberg, I'd make all unsupported programs free, with no strings attached. People would be tempted to download Cubase 7 or whatever, and I bet a certain percentage would like what they experienced, and buy the current version. It might be an easy way to get new users, without upsetting the folks using "legacy" software.

[Docbop]

If I were Steinberg, I'd make all unsupported programs free, with no strings attached. People would be tempted to download Cubase 7 or whatever, and I bet a certain percentage would like what they experienced, and buy the current version. It might be an easy way to get new users, without upsetting the folks using "legacy" software.

 

After working for major software companies in past this won't work. People get stuff for free they will still try to get support, they still want to submit bug reports and expect fixes, in fact they expect more support than people who paid for the supported versions. People have no concept of how much time is involved with building and maintaining a version of software. Plus music is a niche software market so budgets are tight even for big companies the bean counters are always hovering.

[Al Coda]

... music is a niche software market so budgets are tight even for big companies the bean counters are always hovering.

 

There are possibly just only too many musicsoftware manufacturers in the ballpark.

Meanwhile there are a lot of options when in need for a DAW application,- and when I look at the countless plugin releases, publisahed by KvR each day and what´s already established in that market,- there MUST be a reason so many try to "survive" in that supposedly "niche market".

They all can make big (or enough) money when having the muscles and doin´ marketing right.

 

And surprisingly, there´s also enough room for a lot of excellent freeware tools and right priced and great working stuff in the middle too !

 

Steinberg, with a lot of employees, is a big global player in the software world and max profit is the target.

They have nothing to do anymore w/ the enthusiastic software pioneers from the early 80s.

 

I loved ´em in the past but leaved when I couldn´t upgrade Wavelab 4.01b and Cubase SX3 anymore,- just because I didn´t early enough (when THEY wanted).

It rendered my main Steinberg product licences worthless.

A similar strategy is Waves´ WUP, where I lost my Renaissance Bundle Special Edition the same way.

 

Why ?

Other companies like NI or Reason Studios let me upgrade to their latest versions from in "software stoneages" released version 2 (NI Komplete p.ex.).

 

I´m a paying customer and don´t care about manufacturer´s biz problems.

It´s simply their cup of tea.

 

What actually happens in software world is driven by greed and not a great innovation for the average customer at all.

 

A.C.

[Docbop]

What actually happens in software world is driven by greed and not a great innovation for the average customer at all.

 

A.C.

 

 

Software world was taken over by greed back in the 90's when the business switched from innovators trying to make something great and get it to the public, to people innovating so they can be bought by a big corporation and get rich. I started working in the software world in the 80's and you could see the change happening by who within companies controlled the schedules. In the beginning it was the engineers controlling the schedule. There was plenty of time for QA and making sure the product was robust.

 

Then Marketing started driving release schedules and QA was shorten but they still did full cycle before release. Then the end started when the bean counters started controlling release schedules based on when the numbers needed to hit the books. QA schedules were and tossed in the trash, it became normal for QA to be scheduled to finish after a product was released. The only thing they claimed to keep was, no product would shipped with any known priority 1 bugs. But pressure to release on a bean counter schedule started negotiations in the "bug club" as we called it. There one department would say to another... we'll drop the level of you're bug to a #2 if you change the level of these two bugs or ours. The lower the level a bug was the more time that department had to fix it.

 

Some products I know shipped day one with over 5000 bugs still in the database, no priority 1's but still that's a lot of known bugs. QA testing is expensive and some companies had bug fixes they didn't release because they never got the budget for a QA cycle. The company would say a documented bug is as good as a fixed bug.

 

In early days every product has its own development team, but as money got tight staffs shrunk till there might only be two or three development teams that rotated between all products. So instead a developer team having a deep understanding of a product they had to know two or three products and as soon at one product shipped they were shifted to another and to get up to speed immediately. So developers went from being proud of a product they created, they just became droids cranking out code.

 

The whole world is driven by power and greed now. Even the lone coder(s) working on the next great idea are just hoping to get bought out by corporate suits.

[Al Coda]

 

 

Software world was taken over by greed back in the 90's when the business switched from innovators trying to make something great and get it to the public, to people innovation so they can be bought by a big corporation and get rich. I started working in the software world in the 80's and you could see the change happening by who within companies controlled the schedules. In the beginning it was the engineers control schedule and plenty of time for QA and making sure the product was robust. Then Marketing started driving release schedules and QA were shorten but they still did full cycle before release. Then the end started and the bean counters started controlling release schedules based on when numbers needed to hit the books. QA scheduled and tossed in the trash, it because normal for QA to be scheduled to finish after a product was released. The only thing they claimed to keep was no product would shipped with any known priority 1 bugs. But pressure to release on a bean counter schedule start negotiations in the "bug club" as we called it. There one department would say to another... we'll drop the level of you're bug to a #2 if you change the level of these two bugs or ours.

 

Some I know products that shipped day one with up 5000 bugs still in the database, no priority 1's to still that's a lot of known bugs. Also QA testing is expensive and some companies had bug fixes they didn't release because they never got the budget for a QA cycle. The company would say a documented bug is as good as a fixed bug.

 

I early days every product has it's own development team, but as money got tight staff shrunk till their might only be two or three development teams that rotated between all products. So instead a developer really having a deep understanding of a product they had to know two or three products and as soon at one shipped they were shifted to another and to get up to speed immediately. So developers went from being proud of a product they created, they just became droid cranking out code.

 

The whole world is driven by power and greed now. Even the lone coder(s) working on the next great idea are just hoping to get bought out by corporate suits.

 

Great post,- thx !

With Steinberg, all changed when sold to Pinnacle.

With C-Lab/ Emagic, all changed when sold to Apple.

Not to forget to mention Opcode being sold to Gibson ...

 

Well, that trio were the innovators already.

 

There was another small and innovative german company called "Soundscape".

They had (possibly) the best PCI card based DSP-farm audio recording and editing system running on already early Windows (98SE) and working stable together w/ C-Lab Notator (MIDI) and p.ex. a MOTU MidiTimepiece II.

It´s now AVID.

I didn´t follow anymore but wonder if that might have been the only acquisition making the product really better.

Anyone ?

 

A.C.

[RABid]

The current licensing is why I have never used Cubase or Halion. I bought an Akai MPC Live a few years ago, started to download the software, found out it requires a dongle, and just said no. It is my least used pice of hardware. I guess next year I will be looking at Cubase again.

[Anderton]

People get stuff for free they will still try to get support, they still want to submit bug reports and expect fixes, in fact they expect more support than people who paid for the supported versions.

 

Maybe you could just add something to the splash screen that says "Unsupported software. We provide no support of bug fixes. Use at your own risk."

[Docbop]

People get stuff for free they will still try to get support, they still want to submit bug reports and expect fixes, in fact they expect more support than people who paid for the supported versions.

 

Maybe you could just add something to the splash screen that says "Unsupported software. We provide no support of bug fixes. Use at your own risk."

 

 

That doesn't stop people on a phone or the internet becoming an 800 pound gorilla and making demands and wasting time. I know this first hand from dealing with jerks on support calls. Then I would work trade shows and they'd come up to our booth and not look at my badge, then I would say oh I'm XYZ I've talked to you a number of times. They would either disappear quickly as possible or they would get real quiet then next time I got them on a support calls they would be a different person. One of the jerks was taking a training class at our location, because he worked for a big customer of our when not in the class he hung out with us in the call center to listened to calls. He heard first hand what it was like to be on the our side of the calls, he apologized for his past behaviour. So after work we all went drinking with him and became friends, which benefited him because he now had friends in support who'd help him.

[EscapeRocks]

Steinberg will allow 2 computers to have a license with this new system.

 

Yes, but the main point is they force you to be connected to the web w/ your audio machine,- at least every 30 days,- and not when YOU want to.

 

A.C.

 

Exactly why I mentioned Arturia. I don't even use my audio Mac to go online to check for updates. I do that with another Mac that is my daily use one. Then if I see updates or bug fixes to Arturia, and of course Mainstage and Logic and/or Gig Performer,

 

I'll log on my audio Mac Mini to grab the updates, then i'm out

[Mighty Motif Max]

Great news on the new licensing move!

 

December 15, 2021: Updated licensing terms on 'Online Activation':

Based on the feedback we received from our customers, we have decided to make changes to our initial concept. First, instead of reconnecting to the internet within 30 days, once your software has been activated on your computer, it won"t need to contact our Steinberg Licensing server again for the purposes of activation. Second, we have decided to increase the maximum number of activations from two to three computers per single-user license.

 

 

Extremely happy about this! Way to go Steinberg for actually listening to customers!

[Docbop]

Nice to see a company not only checking to see how customers react to change, but to make changes based on that info.

[GRollins]

There are any number of things and stories I could relate, but I'll keep it simple:

 

Steinberg can kiss my ass.

 

I had nothing but trouble with CuBase. Nothing. But. Trouble. I cannot imagine how anyone could possibly be serious about using CuBase, but obviously I'm wrong because there are users who think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

(Methinks sumpin's wrong in dere heads...)

 

The problem prior to the one that drove me away from CuBase forever led me to a general FAQ. Something like 90% of the question/answers in the FAQ were some variation on "How the everliving hell do I get past the licensing thing so the program will work?"...not "How do I record?" not "How do I insert a track?" not "How do I get a plug-in to work?"...nope...none of the above...it was almost entirely "I can't get past your friggin' licensing strategy!" That spoke volumes to me. If your FAQ is that clogged with people who can't even get the program to start, you have a SERIOUS problem. Apparently, they didn't care. The next time I hit a problem, I threw up my hands, went to Studio One, and was done in an hour or two; completed track. And that was from a near standing start, mind you. I didn't know how to get the job done, but I scratched around and figured it out, then got the track down.

 

Score: Studio One - 1, CuBase - 0

 

I cannot imagine anything Steinberg could do that would bring me back to the fold.

 

Grey

[xKnuckles]

I once lost my (hated) Cubase dongle.on board an I ternational flight. Had to waste loads of time at my destination trying to source a replacement and deal with all.of the hideous paperwork which went with it...

 

I would love to have a non-physical licencing system, but alas I run cubase 8.5 and I doubt they will make it backwards compatible. I have no desire to upgrade as I am happy with my setup and know how to operate it... This means, of course, that I cannot allow my computer to upgrade to Windows 11 - which it keeps begging me to do...

These old programs eventually turn into strait jackets...

[Iconoclast]

The Steinberg e license was one of the worst thought out pieces of software ever. I can't tell you how many times my computer crashed on a VST scan because of that crappy software.