A New Chapter for Rhodes

[Morrissey]

I suppose Rhodes has done me a favor. Were the Mk8 price ~5000 USD, I would've wrestled long and hard with whether to buy one. 10k is a nonstarter, so I don't have to waste time arguing with myself.

[Docbop]

This thing is going to just be a status symbol that will show up on a TV show, home studio, maybe real big artist concert. To me it's too much of the "perfect" Rhodes and hearing the sample it doesn't have that classic Rhodes sound and I bet it plays way better than any Rhodes of the vintage years. I hear Rhodes sounds in DP and samples that have more of the vintage Rhodes sound, this new one sound too pure. They went for perfection and perfection wasn't part of the old Rhodes. The old Rhodes was made in a factory with probably pretty wide tolerances. Leo Fender was known for choosing parts by what he could get a deal on and even change spec's if a better priced part became available. That is why not all Rhodes were equal, then some that because great Rhodes from years of being hauled bar to bar and played all night. They developed a sound and feel from all the music being played on them. Like a grand piano doesn't matter how good or expensive it is if it's not broken in and season by lots of good music being played on it. To me the new Rhodes is too perfect to be a real Rhodes listen to those samples of the pure sound without effects it's not there.

[DaBous]

The price of the MK8 doesn't surprise me. I had guessed 8 - 10k when I saw the first ads for it.

 

Largely based on the fact that Vintage Vibe pianos ( 73 ), range from $8500 - 12k, and the fact that there is so much labor involved in building them.

 

VV pianos are successful and hard to get due to the backlog - so it seems there is a market for premium hand built instruments, albeit a small one. VV has been doing this for a while and they do great work ( I own a Wurlitzer 200a they restored. Its' beautiful ).

 

At 50 units a month, given the cost of labor, the custom parts and the R&D that went in to this, some basic math tells us no-one is getting rich selling the MK8s. It is a big gamble for them and I am glad they are reinventing a classic instrument. I hope they are successful.

 

Seriously thinking of taking the plunge myself.

[ProfD]

Half the sticker price is in the name and nostalgia.

 

IMO, if it this EP was not being marketed as a new Rhodes, the price would be closer to $5k.

 

Considering technological advancements in manufacturing processes and lower priced materials, it doesn't have to cost as much to build an electromechanical KB as it did 50 years ago.

 

Nowadays, there are very few dedicated KB players who use an EP exclusively. An EP is no longer the only alternative to an acoustic piano or organ.

 

Then, digital alternatives sound just as good and offer more sounds, features and functionality and cost less.

 

The new Rhodes is a clearly a boutique instrument all of which is reflected in the sticker shock, er, price as well.

[GovernorSilver]

Seen on another forum...

 

Dan, CPO from Rhodes here. This is a great question and just wanted to say hi and chime in.

 

The USB is currently for firmware updates. Though the signal path is completely analogue, we can control many things using the digital layer, as the majority of the pots are scanned. Things that COULD be done include swapping out panning waves, changing pot ranges/rates and curves, and also it"s entirely possible to feed the time/LFO based effects MIDI clock (panning, effect rates, etc). Once we have our MIDI system finished, the USB will also send MIDI out. Again, I can"t give a definite timeline on these features and which functions will definitley make the cut, but just wanted to let you know what it"s potentially capable of and we are of course working to bring all these to the piano asap.

[nadroj]

I thought the price would at least be set to compete with vintage vibe, etc, but it seems it's simply an alternative instead.

 

I'd also heard talk of MIDI being a possibility, but not surprised that's not here. How far-fetched would it have been to expect that on a real electro-mechanical instrument? I'm assuming the people who'd fork out enough money for a decent 2nd hand car are purists not concerned with controller functionality.

[GovernorSilver]

If the auto loan for my car and the roof replacement were all suddenly paid for, and I had another $10K dropped into my pocket, this would be my choice of color combo:

 

 

 

[Doerfler]

Everyday is Halloween

[GovernorSilver]

Everyday is Halloween

 

Indeed!

 

I like the Khaki and Mint Turqoise as well

[Al Coda]

Half the sticker price is in the name and nostalgia.

 

IMO, if it this EP was not being marketed as a new Rhodes, the price would be closer to $5k.

 

Considering technological advancements in manufacturing processes and lower priced materials, it doesn't have to cost as much to build an electromechanical KB as it did 50 years ago.

 

QFT !!!

 

Nowadays, there are very few dedicated KB players who use an EP exclusively. An EP is no longer the only alternative to an acoustic piano or organ.

 

Then, digital alternatives sound just as good and offer more sounds, features and functionality and cost less.

 

Not always !

To make it on par w/ a real deal, it requires physical modelling,"sample jump sand stretch" free operation as well as the dynamics of the "original" when it comes to the "bark" etc..

Not so easy to achieve w/ cost effective digital technology using samples as reference still.

 

The new Rhodes is a clearly a boutique instrument all of which is reflected in the sticker shock, er, price as well.

 

I have to confirm even I don´´t want to.

 

The price tag is much too voracious IMO.

It seems to be oriented on the actual asked prices for vintage (Fender-) Rhodes pianos in good condition or being advertised as that.

But I also have the impression Vintage Vibe does the same,- so I´m not really surprised.

 

Unfortunately, I love the Fender Rhodes (mk I) because it was my main axe for more than 15 years since I bought one new in 1971,- but I´ll never ever invest that money to get one back again, regardless how good it sounds and what the features are.

 

Just announced MIDI-Out via USB wouldn´t satisfy me completely because I´d want a 5-pin DIN MIDI -Out in addition too.

I´d been possibly much more satisfied w/ 5-pin DIN MIDI alone though !

And to be satisfied, it also required a detailed MIDI implementation documentation.

Just only MIDI notes on/off were not enough for a MIDI controller, regardless if it´s "internal engine" is electromagnetic or not.

 

These guys will have to deal w/ he fact we´ll get a 73-keys weighted keyboard offering more or less "quality" Rhodes sounds for about 1.100,- bucks soon (see Studiologic).

A ton of additional sounds and possibvly a profesionally usable masterkeyboard MIDI implementation and other usable features in addition.

 

I don´t ask for a real electromagnetic for the same price,- but what I recognized already is much too high,- checkin´ out the max. margin possible.

 

I don´t wish,- but I guess they will end like Brandstetter did.

The mk VII was already much too expensive to sell enough items and VV is already existing and established.

 

VV might be a different company,- not only makin´ cash w/ new constructions,- also doing Rhodes, Wurlitzer and Hohner restaurations, selling vintage parts remakes and so on.

Must be a mixed calculations concept making ´em successful and survive.

 

 

A.C.

[ElmerJFudd]

Half the sticker price is in the name and nostalgia.

 

IMO, if it this EP was not being marketed as a new Rhodes, the price would be closer to $5k.

 

Considering technological advancements in manufacturing processes and lower priced materials, it doesn't have to cost as much to build an electromechanical KB as it did 50 years ago.

 

QFT !!!

 

Nowadays, there are very few dedicated KB players who use an EP exclusively. An EP is no longer the only alternative to an acoustic piano or organ.

 

Then, digital alternatives sound just as good and offer more sounds, features and functionality and cost less.

 

Not always !

To make it on par w/ a real deal, it requires physical modelling,"sample jump sand stretch" free operation as well as the dynamics of the "original" when it comes to the "bark" etc..

Not so easy to achieve w/ cost effective digital technology using samples as reference still.

 

The new Rhodes is a clearly a boutique instrument all of which is reflected in the sticker shock, er, price as well.

 

I have to confirm even I don´´t want to.

 

The price tag is much too voracious IMO.

It seems to be oriented on the actual asked prices for vintage (Fender-) Rhodes pianos in good condition or being advertised as that.

But I also have the impression Vintage Vibe does the same,- so I´m not really surprised.

 

Unfortunately, I love the Fender Rhodes (mk I) because it was my main axe for more than 15 years since I bought one new in 1971,- but I´ll never ever invest that money to get one back again, regardless how good it sounds and what the features are.

 

Just announced MIDI-Out via USB wouldn´t satisfy me completely because I´d want a 5-pin DIN MIDI -Out in addition too.

I´d been possibly much more satisfied w/ 5-pin DIN MIDI alone though !

And to be satisfied, it also required a detailed MIDI implementation documentation.

Just only MIDI notes on/off were not enough for a MIDI controller, regardless if it´s "internal engine" is electromagnetic or not.

 

These guys will have to deal w/ he fact we´ll get a 73-keys weighted keyboard offering more or less "quality" Rhodes sounds for about 1.100,- bucks soon (see Studiologic).

A ton of additional sounds and possibvly a profesionally usable masterkeyboard MIDI implementation and other usable features in addition.

 

I don´t ask for a real electromagnetic for the same price,- but what I recognized already is much too high,- checkin´ out the max. margin possible.

 

I don´t wish,- but I guess they will end like Brandstetter did.

The mk VII was already much too expensive to sell enough items and VV is already existing and established.

 

VV might be a different company,- not only makin´ cash w/ new constructions,- also doing Rhodes, Wurlitzer and Hohner restaurations, selling vintage parts remakes and so on.

Must be a mixed calculations concept making ´em successful and survive.

 

 

A.C.

 

Numa X Piano GT has your eye?

[Docbop]

I think not adding MIDI is a mistake. Right now it is basically a one trick pony of Rhodes sounds, but with MIDI it can be the main keyboard and controller for other sound sources. Making one a versatile keyboard for live and studio and help justify the price and weight. Without MIDI how many are going to use it as only keyboard for a gig.

[Doerfler]

I am not affiliated in any way but it would seem to me that this piano is not marketed towards the gigging pianist.

[lvercaut]

If the auto loan for my car and the roof replacement were all suddenly paid for, and I had another $10K dropped into my pocket, this would be my choice of color combo:

 

 

 

 

 

+1, no other color is more vintage than orange...

[BRW]

 

Nowadays, there are very few dedicated KB players who use an EP exclusively. An EP is no longer the only alternative to an acoustic piano or organ.

 

 

I would also argue that the Rhodes sound isn't 'in vogue' anymore. The current sound is all about synths. Jazz guys and jazz fusion guys will also need a bit of Rhodes here and there, but is that enough to warrant a $10-12k instrument. And here I'm mainly talking about "big names" who might be potential buyers or endorsees (again, getting this expensive instrument for free ).

 

Funnily enough, it wasn't that popular in the 90's either - it started to get fashionable again in the late 1990's and especially the early 2000's with the neo-soul R&B revolution and artists like D'Angelo, Jamiroquai, Erykah Badu, The Roots. The prices for second-hand units also started the rise accordingly.

[jejefunkyman]

Actually, to my knowledge the Rhodes sound became again popular rather in the mid 90's: first during the Acid Jazz era with of course Jamiroquai (his first album was released in 1993), and other bands like the Brand New Heavies or Incognito. It expanded then to Hip-hop with bands like The Roots (their 2nd album "Do You Want More??!?" was release in 1994) or The Pharcyde, and then to the Neo Soul artists with D'Angelo ("Brown Sugar" was released in 1995, "Voodoo" in 1996), Erykah Badu ("Baduizm" released in 1997), Maxwell ("Urban Hangs Suit" released in 1996) just to name a few.

 

I think it was also still used at the same time in some Jazz or maybe even Progressive Rock albums (though not popular musics ;-)), but I have no reference to confirm this...

 

It was kind of a counterwave to the very synthetic sound of the 80's, which I personally don't like much (especially the FM EP sound).

 

I remember also that in the 90's, there were a lot of reissues of classic 70's albums with EP sounds, and a lot of compilation of Jazz, Soul, Funk and Jazz/Funk rare tracks from this era. Of course, the record companies were surfing on this Acid Jazz, Hip-hop, Neo-Soul wave...

 

This time was for me gold, as it allowed me to discover so much very fine music which is still my favorite these days :-)

[BRW]

^

 

D'Angelo's "Voodoo" came out in 2000, not 1996. Erykah's "Mama's Gun" is from the same era, 1999/2000, also heavily featuring that "laid back" mellow Rhodes sound. In my mind it started to get real popular again around then. And it was THE sound in hip hop and R&B - or at least the neo soul variety. Modern hip hop leaned on the Korg Triton and MPC, but that's another story.

[jejefunkyman]

Yes you're right for Voodoo, sorry for my mistake ;-) But the other dates I mentioned are correct. So to me, this Rhodes revival came earlier than the years 2000. But anyway, that's my own experience, and as I'm not very well versed in popular stuff, this was still maybe confidential at that time...

 

In the early 90's, A Tribe Called Quest and De La Soul sampled several Rhodes based music from Minnie Riperton, Roy Ayers, Grover Washington Jr, and many other Jazz/Funk 70's artists to use them on their records, which had also an effect on its popularity, I believe.

 

As I said the 90's were for me a great decade musically, and I was then mostly chasing sounds which contained Rhodes pianos. I was in my early 20's, and I was eager to discover new music and buying records ;-)

 

Around 2002-2003, I was working with Hip-hop artists heavily using the Triton, and I hated that lol , especially this fake guitar sound which everybody was using :-( MPC was cool though...

[ProfD]

 

Nowadays, there are very few dedicated KB players who use an EP exclusively. An EP is no longer the only alternative to an acoustic piano or organ.

 

 

I would also argue that the Rhodes sound isn't 'in vogue' anymore. The current sound is all about synths. Jazz guys and jazz fusion guys will also need a bit of Rhodes here and there, but is that enough to warrant a $10-12k instrument. And here I'm mainly talking about "big names" who might be potential buyers or endorsees (again, getting this expensive instrument for free ).

 

Funnily enough, it wasn't that popular in the 90's either - it started to get fashionable again in the late 1990's and especially the early 2000's with the neo-soul R&B revolution and artists like D'Angelo, Jamiroquai, Erykah Badu, The Roots. The prices for second-hand units also started the rise accordingly.

Absolutely. Most of the gigging R&B/Hip-Hop/Neo-Soul cats playing a Rhodes sound nowadays are content with getting it from a ROMpler. Any old Motif, Fantom or Kronos will suffice.

 

Very few to none of those same cats would be willing to buy and/or schlep a recondiitioned real Rhodes. They aren't overly interested in Nords either. Backline is fine.

 

That's why I believe this new Rhodes is aimed at collectors. Someone who has enough money to buy it without blinking but zero interest in gigging with it.

[jejefunkyman]

Absolutely. Most of the gigging R&B/Hip-Hop/Neo-Soul cats playing a Rhodes sound nowadays are content with getting it from a ROMpler. Any old Motif, Fantom or Kronos will suffice.

 

I second this. I use SV2 in my case, which offers a wide range of various very good EP tones, with on-board effects and amp sims ;-) I even enjoy the EP tones of the Vox Continental.

 

But I'm just a semi-pro gigging cat, so I could definitely not justify to buy this quite expensive MK8, which weights anyway too much for me, as I'm not assisted by roadies to carry it on stage.

 

Besides, I need a versatile board which brings also other tones like AP and Wurlys in an optimized package. So. I'll just watch what happens to the MK8 from my corner. I have no doubt it will find eventually its audience to some extent.

[Bill H.]

OK confession time... I've never owned a Rhodes, and back in the day every time I was stuck on one I wished it had been a real piano. But I am curious about what's going on here, and maybe you Rhodes aficionados can help me out. Is Vintage Vibe - which is cheaper and is already on the market - missing the mark with their version? What would you be looking for in this new Rhodes that's not already there?

[timwat]

What would you be looking for in this new Rhodes that's not already there?

 

I don't qualify as an aficionado, but I do still own my Dyno'd 1971 Stage 73.

 

I don't think I'm a completely alone to say what I'd really have wanted was a lighter, more reliable, gig-able piano that sounds and plays really close to the legendary Famous E, that I could use as a bottom board in a stacked rig, with MIDI out, that I could comfortably schlep to gigs, that wouldn't require aftermarket copper shielding under the lid. At a price mere mortal gigging musicians could afford.

 

So I'm stupid and the market isn't going to cooperate. Oh well.

[synthizen2]

I am not affiliated in any way but it would seem to me that this piano is not marketed towards the gigging pianist.

 

Call me shocked!

 

GROUP #1: Like a lot of folks on this forum, I used a real Rhodes back in the day. Some of us remember the weight, action sluggishness, and ONE sound that it made... and kept that in our heads.

 

GROUP #2: Some of us on this forum apply to GROUP #1 except we didn't keep that thought in our heads; instead we reminisced and nostalgized about the old instrument we used to play, thinking that having it back again will change everything.

 

GROUP #3: Some of us on this forum NEVER played a real Rhodes back in the day, and they fantasize about having a real one, thinking that having one will change everything.

 

GROUP #4: Some people (on this forum or elsewhere) may fit into any of the 3 GROUPS mentioned above... but they have enough cash to throw at anything that tickles their fancy.

 

This about wraps up the market for this instrument, with GROUP #4 being the winning contestant.

[GovernorSilver]

I never gigged with a Rhodes but did play some beat up Rhodes'es in piano classes at the community college and university that I attended.

 

so I do have some experience with crappy quality Rhodes.

[MIDI Rack-Man]

BTW, Just when this glittery, heavy, upscale slab of nostalgia slowly prepares to come to market, I can't wait to hear what the GSI folks cook up with all their newly-sampled (and Modeled) keyboard offerings: A Gemini ii on steroids? In Rack form (4 lbs.), or in the perfect 61 or 73 key, high-trigger 15 lb. keybed? Also with Clonewheel. And SuperblyUnnatural (SU) sounds. And modeled acoustic electric FM PM piano, trombone, synths of the 60s 70s 80s 90s . . .

 

Better go take my meds and start saving up !

 

MIDI Rack-Man

[Doerfler]

OK confession time... I've never owned a Rhodes, and back in the day every time I was stuck on one I wished it had been a real piano. But I am curious about what's going on here, and maybe you Rhodes aficionados can help me out. Is Vintage Vibe - which is cheaper and is already on the market - missing the mark with their version? What would you be looking for in this new Rhodes that's not already there?

 

 

VV never tried to totally replicate the sound of a Rhodes piano, even though they build pianos that use tines instead of strings or reeds. Their sound is unique, actually somewhere between a Rhodes and a Wurlitzer. YMMV, hope this helps.

[Brad Kaenel]

I am not affiliated in any way but it would seem to me that this piano is not marketed towards the gigging pianist.

GROUP #2: Some of us on this forum apply to GROUP #1 except we didn't keep that thought in our heads; instead we reminisced and nostalgized about the old instrument we used to play, thinking that having it back again will change everything.

.

 

Yah, I'm GROUP #2 -- I'm always sad when I don't have a Rhodes in the house, even if I'm not playing it.

 

I don't have one now, but ouch! -- the Mk8's too spendy for me. I bought this one, instead: Portable Rhodes

[hurricane hugo]

[font:Verdana]Production and pre-orders have started:[/font] https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2021/11/01/rhodes-mk8-electric-piano-now-in-production-available-to-pre-order/

[Moonglow]

VV never tried to totally replicate the sound of a Rhodes piano, even though they build pianos that use tines instead of strings or reeds. Their sound is unique, actually somewhere between a Rhodes and a Wurlitzer. YMMV, hope this helps.

Spot on description, and precisely why I never warmed up to this axe, although I can appreciate the top-notch craftsmanship. It"s like it doesn"t know what it wants to be, a Rhodes or a Wurli. Probably why I never MIDIed a Rhodes patch with a Wurli patch.

[Bill H.]

VV never tried to totally replicate the sound of a Rhodes piano, even though they build pianos that use tines instead of strings or reeds. Their sound is unique, actually somewhere between a Rhodes and a Wurlitzer. YMMV, hope this helps.

Spot on description, and precisely why I never warmed up to this axe, although I can appreciate the top-notch craftsmanship. It"s like it doesn"t know what it wants to be, a Rhodes or a Wurli. Probably why I never MIDIed a Rhodes patch with a Wurli patch.

 

Thanks guys that pretty much explains what all the commotion is about with this new Rhodes