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QSC K8 v. K12


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I am currently using the K12 as a stage monitor, but in the effort of lightening up, I am considering downgrading to a K8. But I was concerned that it may not perform to the level I am used to with the K12. Anyone using a K8 (or equivalent) as a monitor? Is the sound quality satisfactory for Rock and Roll?

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks!

Stan

Gig Rig: Yamaha S90 XS; Hammond SK-1; Rehearsal: Yamaha MOX8 Korg Triton Le61, Yamaha S90, Hammond XK-1

Retired: Hammond M2/Leslie 145, Wurly 200, Ensoniq VFX

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I'm not in any particular hurry to replace my pair of QSC K10s as they continue to work great, but at some point I am going to replace them with a pair of QSC K8.2 that have plenty of power, but will add a sub to my setup as well when I need it for additional bass frequency, or just use the K8.2s as is when I can.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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I just played through a pair at a private event about three weeks ago. I can't vouch for them as a stage monitor, but I personally would find a single one too fatiguing on the ears to use as a stage monitor. The sound was clear and strong but very focused, IMO.

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
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I use 2 K10.2s for mains and a single K8.2 for a monitor. I may be the odd man out, but the K8.2 works great for me as a monitor. I don"t elevate as the speaker as the angled side lets it tilt back into a monitor position. As to EQ, never have had a problem. Full disclosure, though - I"m using a QSC TouchMix 8 mixer. Maybe that is the difference.
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I have a couple of K8s and a K12. The K8's have a sweet tone. They are a tad brighter than the K12 and they don't carry much of the muddy frequencies so they are pretty good for vocals. They have a broader dispersion, which works well for smaller rooms. I've used sometimes one and sometimes two K8s as monitors in a very loud band and in a moderately loud band. Since K8s don't have the ability to act as wedges, I've been using mini-stands for this application and the stands work quite well. I'd use the K8's anytime for jazz gigs, folk, pretty much anything, except....

 

I wouldn't really recommend them for a very loud band unless the ergonomics are right, even as a pair. If I take just one to rehearsal with the very loud band, I expect to be washed out a bit that day. The string pads are fine and you can hold down some B3 cords but the piano sounds a bit plinky and the moog doesn't cut. They tend to lose imaging (perhaps because of the broad dispersion) and they get upset at lower spl than the K12, reminding you that they don't like being pushed, with a slightly honky tone. It's just that the K12 is so much more efficient with the same power.

 

I have heard excellent things about the K8.2s at high volumes, from friends.

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I wasn't a fan of the K8s (I thought the cheaper, lighter EV ZXa1 sounded quite a bit better, even if they didn't go quite as loud)... but I like the K8.2s a lot.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Stan, your thread starter stated K8 and K12, not the newer 8.2 or 12.2 so I assume you're talking about getting a used original K8 to replace an original K12, correct? Or did you just forget the ".2"?

 

The following is mostly speculation, I could be wrong! I think this "bad/honky tone when pushed" description I see a lot when talking about the original K8 is their limiting kicking in when you've got the volume way up. QSC claims it's done in DSP and from experience with my K8s, it works by rolling off low end, so the woofer excursion is lessened. This makes sense because if the LF amp is anywhere close to reaching its rated output (500 watts for the original Ks), you're gonna send that little 8" woofer to Mars. So, less lows could easily come across as "honky", "thin", etc. The 8.2 may not limit with eq changes, since the marketing says "carefully tailored, subtle and sophisticated dynamics processing is used to protect the drivers from damage and the performance from distortion."

 

I'll add that when I did push my K8s like this, it was because I was not only playing with an excrutiatingly loud band but I also needed my speakers to provide the sound for the house - I was not going through a PA. They were in back of me. If I was using them strictly as a monitor, they would be in front of me and facing back. In that case, they're just a few feet away and I can't imagine I'd be pushing them to limiting, the speakers being so close to my ears. However, I'm playing mostly jazz and funk/r&b type gigs, not very loud rock. Would a single K8 push hard enough to replace the 12 in that circumstance? I don't know. I'll say this however: if you need a monitor to be loud enough that a 12" vs an 8" speaker makes a difference between workable and not... well, I wish you the best for your eardrums! It sounds like you're playing with a very loud stage volume. I would think that either the 1000W K8 or 2000W K8.2 would be plenty loud & clean enough for monitoring.

 

The other thing, as has been noted, is that unlike the K10 or K12, the original K8s are not shaped to work as a monitor wedge (the 8.2s are). I use plastic foldable footstools that raise them about 8" and also tilt them slightly upwards, which makes them work great both when they're in back of me and providing sound for myself, the band, and the house - and also the very few times I use them strictly as monitors, like in this picture:

 

IMG-8913.jpg

 

Good luck and sorry for this novel of a post! I've just been real happy with my two K8s which I've now owned for 12 years. I got them for the same reason you're talking about - to lighten my load (I was using two 50-lb Mackie SRM450s before)!

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If schlep is not a factor, the K12 (or a K12.2) will always sound better, louder, richer, etc. Factor in schlep, especially if carrying two and putting them behind you on small poles, and you'll want the K8 (or much better K8.2). I don't put monitors on the floor as I don't like the way they sound, even with proper EQ. Back to doing IEMs with current band where I control my monitor mix, it's quite nice.

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Also, just wanted to mention I got a new Bose F1 system for the band, but tried a single F1 812 on a short stand behind me for a rehearsal. It sounded so good, I could go back to playing in mono. The way the compact line array handles upper harmonics is surreal and quite pleasant to the ear. It's big and heavy. I'll spend some more time with it, definitely.

Want to make your band better?  Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band"

 

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Thanks for all the advice! Shlep is my driving force, but from what I've read here the K8.2 would probably not work for me. My bands are loud rock. And I want to keep it to just one to shlep. Many of the posters here use a pair. A pair kind of defeats the shlep factor. Reezekeys, I did not know of the .2's until I started shopping. And that when south fast because all the major vendors are backordered K8.2, 10.2 and 12.2. So at least for now I will probably stick with the K12 I have.

Stan

Gig Rig: Yamaha S90 XS; Hammond SK-1; Rehearsal: Yamaha MOX8 Korg Triton Le61, Yamaha S90, Hammond XK-1

Retired: Hammond M2/Leslie 145, Wurly 200, Ensoniq VFX

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Also, just wanted to mention I got a new Bose F1 system for the band, but tried a single F1 812 on a short stand behind me for a rehearsal. It sounded so good, I could go back to playing in mono. The way the compact line array handles upper harmonics is surreal and quite pleasant to the ear. It's big and heavy. I'll spend some more time with it, definitely.

 

The 812 hadn't been on my radar at all till this post! Makes me wonder if there would be any merit in a self-contained stereo version that would work turned on its side.

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Rod

Here for the gear.

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Any reason you don"t consider splitting the difference at K10.2? I"ve never played the X2"s but i liked DXR10 >> K10. I play an EV 12' and love its thick lush tone
The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it.
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Any reason you don"t consider splitting the difference at K10.2? I"ve never played the X2"s but i liked DXR10 >> K10. I play an EV 12' and love its thick lush tone

 

Yes I have considered the 10.2 especially after reading the comments on this forum. But as I mentioned earlier, I went shopping only to find all 3 versions, 8,10, and even 12 are backordered on all the major vendors. IIRC ebay had 1 or two used, but I prefer to go with new. So the effort is on hold until the supply chain crisis is solved.

Stan

Gig Rig: Yamaha S90 XS; Hammond SK-1; Rehearsal: Yamaha MOX8 Korg Triton Le61, Yamaha S90, Hammond XK-1

Retired: Hammond M2/Leslie 145, Wurly 200, Ensoniq VFX

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If weight is the concern with your current K12 have you considered a rolling bag? This way you'd only have to pick it up to put in/out of the vehicle. I use an EV ELX112P that weighs 37 pounds (2 pounds less than your K12) but because it is in a rolling bag it's a 5 second struggle at most to put it in and take it out of the car. The rest of the time it is on wheels and the weight becomes a non-factor. I have this bag (although i paid alot less than this advertised price):

 

https://www.gatorcases.com/products/speaker/speaker-bags/gpa-speaker-bag/rolling-speaker-bag-for-small-format-12-speakers-gpa-712sm/

 

Also check Mackie rolling speaker bags, much less expensive.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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from what I've read here the K8.2 would probably not work for me. My bands are loud rock.

I agree with Reezekeys. If you're coming from using the 12, I could see being concerned with whether the 8 could keep up if you were using it for the audience to hear you. But if it's just for your own stage monitoring, I have a hard time imagining you couldn't get all you need out of the 8. For the sake of your ears, you shouldn't be monitoring anywhere near a level where the max volume of the 12 vs. the 8 should be a factor. And losing some deep bass shouldn't make much difference unless you're doing heavy synth bass or bass pedal kinds of things... and even then, if you're in the PA, even though it's in front of you, the deep bass is not directional and you should still be hearing some of your deep bottoms from the mains regardless, to supplement what you're getting out of your personal monitor.

 

If weight is the concern with your current K12 have you considered a rolling bag? This way you'd only have to pick it up to put in/out of the vehicle. I use an EV ELX112P that weighs 37 pounds (2 pounds less than your K12) but because it is in a rolling bag it's a 5 second struggle at most to put it in and take it out of the car. The rest of the time it is on wheels and the weight becomes a non-factor.

I've never found a good wheeled solution for my gear. I know a lot of people swear by their Rock-N-Roller carts, and I haven't tried one of those, but I have tried putting some gear in wheeled bags, and it never works out for me... in the end, it seems it adds as much trouble as it saves.

 

For example, in this case, rolling bags tend to be heavy. Specs say yours is 12 lbs, so now that's a 49 lb item you have to lift in and out of your car. If you have to deal with curbs, stairs/steps, lawn (outdoor gigs), sand (beach areas), or terrible pavement (Manhattan), you still may find yourself lifting or otherwise maneuvering through something other than a smooth roll. Then there's still the lifting of the speaker out of the rolling bag, possibly lifting/carrying it up onto a stage/platform, and possibly having to lift it onto a speaker stand. Then after you set up, you may have to stash the cases somewhere at some distance, so now you could have another 12 lb piece to deal with. And then all that again in reverse at the end of the gig. And all that's at the venue side... at my home, my gear often has to travel up and down stairs as well! It's great that you've found it generally works in your situation, but personally, I've found too many times it doesn't quite.

 

I do have a collapsible wagon-style cart that I've used sometimes... it's a little on the small side, but at least it has sides which I thought would give it an edge on the Rock-N-Rollers. It has come in handy on occasion, but I find that, more often than not, I end up not using it. And if you weigh it down with enough stuff, it still takes a good deal of effort to push/pull, especially if there are inclines. For me, it's only worth the effort if the load in involves a good bit of distance, but that distance is mostly an easy, flat shot. But either way, for me, wheels are no substitute for lighter gear. Even using the cart to save trips, it works better loading it with lighter gear than heavier gear.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Scott, the solution might not be to your advantage, but for my situation (and probably for others) it is. enuf said on that....

 

I spent an inordinate amount of time analyzing Rock-n-roller carts and borrowed my buddies for a gig where I had to park 100 yards away. using it was the worse decision ever; for one I hardly had room in my car for the cart; then the keyboards are over 50" wide, so loading them the way I have them in the car didn't work; loading them on their side caused them to constantly move and tip while transporting; arranging the cart with speakers, bags, keyboards, seat was just ridiculous and a timewaster. Frustrated after one trip I just wheeled my bags like I always do and frankly, if the cart were mine, i probably would have put the damn thing in the trashcan at the gig. Moral of all these stories is what works for someone might not work for someone else, but 'wheeled bags' definitely work for me regardless of whether the items being wheeled are light or heavy (but apparently not for you).

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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As for the rolling bag, not a bad suggestion but I already have the QSC bag for the 12. So I was considering a collapsible hand cart from one of the home improvement super stores. That would eliminate adding 12 lbs or so which of course makes the lift in and out of the car more of a challenge. And there is another issue I want to ease. I use a speaker stand placed to my side. It's lowest position it is 48". I stand and sit to play, but the sitting position is high, almost standing, so it is at about ear level. I ordered a mini stand with a height range of 24-48. That'll eliminate the 4 ft lift to the stand. It'll sit a little lower but still be in a good enough position to serve the purpose.

Thanks again for all the recommendations!

Stan

Gig Rig: Yamaha S90 XS; Hammond SK-1; Rehearsal: Yamaha MOX8 Korg Triton Le61, Yamaha S90, Hammond XK-1

Retired: Hammond M2/Leslie 145, Wurly 200, Ensoniq VFX

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I ordered a mini stand with a height range of 24-48. That'll eliminate the 4 ft lift to the stand. It'll sit a little lower but still be in a good enough position to serve the purpose.

Good move. Lifting 39 lbs even on to a short stand isn't nothing (similar to lifting it into the car, I guess), but it's a whole lot better than having to lift it onto a full height stand. Plus the footprint of the shorter tripod stands are smaller, which is helpful on a tight stage. I recently got one of those short stands as well. Though in my case, I hadn't been using a full height stand, I'd been putting the speaker in different places depending on the setup/venue, including sometimes on the floor behind me (off to one side). I decided it was time for me to have a better, more predictable/consistent arrangement. I ended up using this On-Stage stand which I'm very happy with (preferring it to the similar Gator).

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I ended up using this On-Stage stand which I'm very happy with (preferring it to the similar Gator).

 

Good to hear a vote for the On-Stage stand! That's the one I bought. Last night was it's debut and it worked out perfectly!

Stan

Gig Rig: Yamaha S90 XS; Hammond SK-1; Rehearsal: Yamaha MOX8 Korg Triton Le61, Yamaha S90, Hammond XK-1

Retired: Hammond M2/Leslie 145, Wurly 200, Ensoniq VFX

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