Synthesizer expressiveness

[Theo Verelst]

The collective of modern music synthesizers isn't great in expressiveness, even imitations of old and new hardware in software aren't great IMO because of both sampling issues and general lack of production skills. For some, giant sounds aren't important, and expressive multi-faceted sound may sound nerdy (for lack of a better call), and the ever-the-sameness of the "all is fine" software products may be a plus to some.

 

I like expressive strong and well produced sound, even though I haven't in every way gotten there yet, and I like the idea of sounds and sound synthesis components being created to properly combine and preferably even to from the start allow a DAC to play back the result properly.

 

A first step in the latter direction is my 30 band multi expander and more enhanced signal path acting on a tuned combination of Helm, Yoshimi and Dexed to create sort of analog sound with some power and some expressiveness, and for as far as succeeded: better digital sound by a certain design:

 

dexhelyos30band1.mp3 1 min 23 stereo 320kbps mp3 (bit loud)

 

I think that's fun !

 

I might put all of the signal path in "Carla", so that it's easier to copy the setup for other computers, possibly even windows, but the latter for sure might be a drag...

 

Theo V.

[Lady Gaia]

Part of the challenge in making expressive music is allowing more aspects of the performance to influence sound in subtle ways. It's a crying shame that so many modern keyboards are just simple triggers with discrete pitch, velocity, and duration to differentiate one note from another. Even channel aftertouch is often omitted and polyphonic aftertouch has become something of an endangered species.

 

Have you spent any time with some of the more experimental controllers? The Haken Continuum? Linnstrument? Seaboard? I liked the potential each of them represented, but never really fell for playing an unyielding or undifferentiated surface. So while I liked some things about the experience it always felt too much like a chore. It reminded me that the times when I've fallen in love with an instrument it has been a particularly compelling specimen where it finally clicked for me and I couldn't stop playing (however badly at first.) My hopes are now pinned on the Expressive E Osmose, which was available for members of the public to try for the first time at Superbooth a week or so back. I wasn't fortunate enough to be at the show, but I've had one pre-ordered since the first day they started taking reservations.

 

What's to like? It starts out as a fairly conventional looking keyboard, with discrete keys laid out in a familiar manner. Where things get interesting is that every key is extraordinarily sensitive, capable of triggering sound within a few millimeters of being pressed, and providing continuous control during the initial key travel. Plus a generous aftertouch range after a tactile transition to more resistance. Plus lateral key motion allowing pitch bands. All tracked polyphonically, and all integrated with a sound engine designed to take advantage of every little nuance.

[Tusker]

I love what Edmund Eagan and Sally Sparks demonstrate on the Haken continuum, so I think you are on to something good with the Osmose. There is a trade-off between fine expression and sonic size. The shape of an envelope drawn by breath tends to be more expressive than one drawn by hands or fingers with perhaps the violin bow being an exception. The piano action represents a local optimum on that trade-off between expression and size, partly due to dynamic range and partly due to five centuries of keyboard technique. Here"s hoping the Osmose raises that optimum, inheriting the strengths of the piano action and adding to them.

[marino]

I love what Edmund Eagan and Sally Sparks demonstrate on the Haken continuum, so I think you are on to something good with the Osmose. There is a trade-off between fine expression and sonic size. The shape of an envelope drawn by breath tends to be more expressive than one drawn by hands or fingers with perhaps the violin bow being an exception. The piano action represents a local optimum on that trade-off between expression and size, partly due to dynamic range and partly due to five centuries of keyboard technique. Here"s hoping the Osmose raises that optimum, inheriting the strengths of the piano action and adding to them.

 

Yes, the Osmose looks more appealing to me than the Seabord or the Continuum, mainly because as a pianist, I'm used to control the 'vertical' motion of the arm. I strongly hope to get one sooner or later. Of course, they have to release it first... (I haven't preordered it)

That said, my favorite expression device for realtime control has been, for many years, the breath controller. I've played clarinet and sax a little bit, so it's congenial to me. Unfortunately, at one point I had to sell my Yamaha VL1, so I don't have a breath controller, nor a BC input anymore.

[Iconoclast]

I might be in the minority here but I see poly AT on the comeback. The recent success of the Hydra synth with poly AT and hopefully with Midi 2.0 we might actually see more of it.

 

Additionally, you have ribbon controllers on the Hydra, the new PolyBrute and the Kurz 2700.

[Lady Gaia]

It is great to see a few poly AT entrants, it's true. Things are looking better today than they were two or three years ago. Today's situation still feels like it's less represented in mainstream offerings than back when Roland and Kurzweil had controllers with poly AT alongside everything from Ensoniq.

[Marzzz]

Showing your age, Lady, that was back around 30-odd years ago! However, it is extremely encouraging that ASM put it PolyAT in the Hydrasynth, if anything I hope their parent company licenses the use of their keybed for other manufacturers, or maybe Evil B may come thru with something. But right now I am extremely tempted by the Hydrasynth Deluxe, in case anyone was remotely wondering...

[Lady Gaia]

Showing your age, Lady, that was back around 30-odd years ago!

 

It's true. I would have hoped that synthesis would have gotten more expressive over time rather than less - which seems to have been the dominant trend outside of very niche players until just recently.

 

right now I am extremely tempted by the Hydrasynth Deluxe, in case anyone was remotely wondering...

 

If it had been available before I made my bet on Osmose I may well have been tempted! If you take the leap do share your impressions. It seems like it should be a great controller as well as a capable synth.

[allan_evett]

I just spent some time on Expressive E's site, and want to explore the Osmose further. I tried a Seaboard Rise 49 in 2016; intriguing controller, but I didn't quite take to it. Having been connected to conventional black and whites for decades now, I want the next step in expression to still incorporate that.

 

Though I have several conventional keyboard instruments - acoustic piano, a couple digital piano/synth hybrids, and model/ROMpler based synths - there remains a desire for fluid expression from a keyboard. When playing particular patches (electric violin and others), my fingers want to lean-in, press-and-bend - creating motion in the sound. That works marginally on my NS3, 76; it's terrible on my Fantom 7 (which is a wonderful instrument in many ways, but has lousy, aftertouch implementation). But from what I've heard so far of the Osmose, it's a much stronger and versatile step in the direction I'm seeking.

[GovernorSilver]

Quick thoughts on a few instruments:

 

Keith McMillen Qunexus - Ok little sorta keyboard for travel with smartphone/tablet softsynths. Poly AT felt a little uneven though. XY position sensitivity per key sounded great in theory, but difficult to control for chords - best used for single note lines

 

Roli Seaboard (full size) - Pleasantly responsive, but it was already set up and configured/dialed in for a softsynth in the store. I have no idea what effort would have been required to get up velocity curve, pressure curve, etc. Roli filed for bankruptcy, which explains the drop in availability. The ridges give you a chance to locate notes by feel like on a regular keyboard, but as noted a while back, the lack of contrast between C Major notes and sharp/flat notes can be a liability if you have to deal with poor stage lighting.

 

Haken Continuum - Very responsive, acoustic instrument like feel. Glissando and vibrato is a joy. But also as noted, you can't find notes by feel/touch because the surface is flat. The necks of classical bowed instruments, though fretless, have conical shapes that assist the player in pitch location.

[GovernorSilver]

Osmose, as several here are aware of, runs the EaganMatrix multi-engine.

 

While there hasn't been as much up to date info on using the EaganMatrix editor with Osmose, Loopop posted a review of Slim Continuum, which includes a fair amount of coverage of the editor. Those who haven't played a Continuum will of course get a look at what it's like to play one - you'll be very dependent on those black stripes to locate the pitches you want to play, so the contrast between the black and red helps a ton. He demos the rounding function too, when you just want to lay down chordal parts in tune and don't really need pedal steel bends or anything.

 

The info on connectivity, integration with regular keyboard controller, knob controller, splits, etc. may also be useful.

 

Oh, and he mentions competing MPE or MPE+ controllers/instruments.

 

[video:youtube]

[Stokely]

I see a couple softsynths mentioned, for me Repro is tops in that area of the ones in my "stable". I feel the sounds are extremely expressive even from a standard keyboard and controls. I think the excellent fx really help in that regard (and I've found that better fx, or having them for that matter, can really change the way you play.) Hardware-wise my Summit is really nice in this regard too.

[Theo Verelst]

In principle I'm all for alternative or higher dimensional controllers, for my own feelings of proficiency by using my skills mostly on keyboard like devices. I haven't tried many myself, I was a bit enamoured by the idea of using the Linnstrument together with my string simulator when it came out, but that hasn't happened. Sideways motion of keys and polyphonic after touch would be cool, and I can use a modern multi touch pad with some accuracy and multiple areas of motion .

 

This example however was made without much modulation (possibly some unguarded after touch) and simply played on a PC3-76 keyboard and live recorded without premeditated control over the various LFO modulations going on in the three sound components. It feels like a partial resurrection from the grave of modern digitals to me, where the "magic" of the sound partials come together with the 30 band expander based DAC reconstruction help. Probably not perfection but better than any of the examples I know.

 

T.V.

[Anderton]

I might be in the minority here but I see poly AT on the comeback.

 

The adoption of the MPE (MIDI Polyphonic Expression) standard provides a lot more incentive for companies to include polyphonic expressiveness, because it embodies a predictable way for controllers and instruments to interact. And although the LinnStrument isn't "textbook" MPE, it accomplishes the same results, and combines elements of both keyboards and guitar.

 

Also, I believe Ensoniq's patent for polyphonic aftertouch is going to run out soon, if it hasn't already. IIRC it was based on capacitance (?) but in any event, was simple and elegant. Perhaps other manufacturers will adopt it.

 

Finally, MIDI 2.0 includes provisions for future controllers with 3D capabilities. There isn't anything that takes advantage of that now, but as the technology kicks in (whenever that might be), the spec will be ready for it. Much of MIDI 2.0 is about more expressive instruments, like higher resolution for a more "analog" feel (e.g., no stair-stepping from quantized controls). So I think that overall, keyboards just being switches with velocity and (maybe) aftertouch will be in the rear-view mirror before too long. At least I hope so...

[Stokely]

The interesting part to me is that for a lot of us live players--talking mostly the simpler classic rock stuff in my case--more expressiveness isn't a good thing in some cases. Too easy to have aftertouch turn on because I hit a key slightly too hard because I was asking a server for another beer or avoiding the headstock of a guitar I jest, but there is some truth to that...sometimes you pick the louder less dynamic piano because you need to cut through on a song that doesn't have much dynamics etc.

 

At home in peace and quiet I find myself using automation with a mouse for a lot of internal synth params, drawing them in after I play the parts. It's certainly not as spontaneous but it gives me a lot of control over a ton of different things that I wouldn't be able to do while I was playing, not easily at least.

[hardware]

Already ordered HydraSynth Deluxe.

 

Only needed to play an ASM and see how quickly you can add your own creativity/workflow. And that was before the Ribbon and PAT were engaged.

It"s basically a well designed soft synth with a hardware GUI.

 

Subtractive synthesis/Analog-ish sounds track resonance to the lowest ranges like u-He Zebra/Diva, so everything else is gravy and very quick assimilation of ideas.

 

Also agree that 'expressiveness' in relation to dynamics is fun, but I"m more into abrupt in your face expression, like the way I remembered being struck by the keyboard sounds in 'Money For Nothing, and The Chicks For Free.'

 

PAT that allows pressure to bring in an entirely new sound while retaining the original sound, alternating sounds, etc.

Anything new and exciting as I grow weary of last century ideas, and especially (yawn/yawn) clones.

[allan_evett]

The interesting part to me is that for a lot of us live players--talking mostly the simpler classic rock stuff in my case--more expressiveness isn't a good thing in some cases. Too easy to have aftertouch turn on /quote]

 

 

That's unlikely to ever happen with my 2019 Fantom 7; it has 'after slam'

[Tom Williams]

Too easy to have aftertouch turn on because I hit a key slightly too hard

Been there, done that on guitar patches. I always map AT to a slight linear rise in pitch, so I can duplicate a guitar's non-whammy vibrato. That sometimes resulted in the initial sound being sharp, so I added a delay of perhaps 100 ms -- on Kurzweil, implemented as an ASR envelope -- before the AT is allowed to raise the pitch. Works like a charm to keep the aftertouch, um, after.

[Marzzz]

The only reason I haven't ordered a Hydrasynth Deluxe is because I already own several PolyAT controllers, but I am still tempted because the Hydrasynth sounds great, even for a "well-designed soft synth with a hardware GUI." Oh, and because I ordered a Waldorf M- I had always wanted an original Microwave I but they were just too expensive, and usually too beaten-up looking for $2500. Actually pretty clever for Waldorf to price the M at what the vintage rack pieces are going for...

Also, I believe Ensoniq's patent for polyphonic aftertouch is going to run out soon, if it hasn't already. IIRC it was based on capacitance (?) but in any event, was simple and elegant. Perhaps other manufacturers will adopt it.

I would have thought the patents ran out years ago, considering the Ensoniq synths were made in the 80's, but I don't know the applicable patent laws. I do think the lack of PolyAT controllers was more a result of expense and manufacturer inertia- thinking there was no demand. ASM seems to be proving them wrong!

[ProfD]

Synthesizer expressiveness reads like an oxymoron because it's a an electronic device. Pitch bend, modular, polyAT, etc., are parameters that are programmed to behave in a rather predictable way. Same goes for "expression" pedals.

 

"Expression" as it relates to a muscial instrument comes from the individual playing it. The reason we can identify certain musicians just from listening to a recording is because of the way they play which is truly expression.

 

At best, a synthesizer or any other device can provide us with more parameters to play with but the real output has to come from the musician playhing it.

[Tusker]

I can identify Thorwald Jørgensen. ð

 

Electronic instrument. No control of timbre. Only one sound. Fine control of pitch and volume. Years of practice.

 

[video:youtube]

[Tom Williams]

At best, a synthesizer or any other device can provide us with more parameters to play with but the real output has to come from the musician playing it.

Naw.

A synth with a bunch of patch cords and a few knobs, but no velocity, aftertouch, or wheels, has inherently less expressive capability than one with velocity, At, Poly-AT, half-damper pedals, breath controller, etc. Yes, you gotta have artistry too -- and that can be used to move around instrumental limitations, like the Hammond B3 -- but the tool itself is still important.

[Theo Verelst]

But how much of the controller and parameter sound space actually produces sound matching with human expressiveness and proper variations? Just claiming synthesizers have a number of parameters doesn't necessarily make more sense than an arpeggiator on a bad sounding recorder, as long as bleeps and Moog like growls do not make it as a *proper* violin or so, the usable expressive space might be the same as so many software synths to me. Might as well be the zero space !!

 

T

[Tusker]

But how much of the controller and parameter sound space actually produces sound matching with human expressiveness and proper variations?

 

That"s an excellent question. Perhaps the most important one for synthesists to consider. My answer is ⦠which humans are you referring to? Depending on the musical cultures one is exposed to and the openness to experience you might get very different answers. Of course everyone of us is free to define it as narrowly or broadly as we like. I"ll admit, my bias is toward a broad definition, partly because I have an inclination toward new things and partly because history teaches us that music will continue changing.

 

When Pink Floyd begins the song 'Time' with the sound of clocks going off, some listeners hurry past 'the sound effects' to 'the music'. I was one of them. Having heard the song many times, the clocks now are very emotional to me, and a symbolic warning of mortality in the deepest way. Without them, the song would not reverberate as emotionally as it does. So the question comes back to you. Who gets to define the boundaries of musical expression? ðð

 

 

[video:youtube]

[RABid]

The Rhodes Chroma was the most expressive synth I have ever played. The bidirectional levers, velocity and after touch, and ample foot controls combined with excellent programming put it at a level that I have never found on any other synth, and I have owned a BUNCH of them over the years. That keyboard taught me to slow down and play the note instead of falling into the trap of seeing how many notes I could squeeze into a phrase.