Micing a keyboard amp . . . really?

[El Lobo]

I've worked with good and bad sound engineers. Yes, the sound engineer should hear from the musicians about how they want their sound to be handled. That's exactly the situation in the OP. That does not mean that the sound engineer should not say anything. Yes, the audience is there to hear the music, not the snare EQ. Sometimes the engineer has a better way to get the music to the audience, sometimes not. Ideally, it's a 2-way conversation between musician and sound engineer. When sound engineers tell me what they want me to do (or not do) to get the best sound of my gear and the band's sound in the house system, I do what they say because usually they know their system and the room best. There have been a few times when the engineer clearly did not know how to get the best sound. In those situations, my experience is that no amount of talk improves the sound. Some sound engineers are deaf to what the musicians want and some musicians are deaf to what the sound engineer has to offer. In the best situations, the musicians and the sound engineer both have big ears.

[obxa]

This: Steve Nathan. Your job is to deliver, not to dictate.

[KuruPrionz]

I've done sound many times. I would mic the keyboard amp since the keyboardist specifically requested it.

I don't care why he thinks it being made of wood will make it sound like whatever, that is what he asked for so give it to him.

 

I have things to worry about but this is not one of them.

On \to the next.

[timwat]

Hey BluMunk,

 

Now you've got me curious - did this outdoor gig already take place? How did the sound turn out? What approach did you end up using?

 

Tim

[MathOfInsects]

Hey BluMunk,

 

Now you've got me curious - did this outdoor gig already take place? How did the sound turn out? What approach did you end up using?

 

Tim

^^^^ What he said. How did this turn out?

[area51recording]

I've done this ONCE in nearly 50 years of gigging, by mutual agreement between me and the soundguy. We were playing a bar with power that seemed old enough to have been installed by Thomas Edison personally, and no matter what we tried we couldn't get the crazy hum and buzz out of my feed from my rig. Going to my speaker sounded just fine, and finally we both decided to just go ahead and mic my speaker. It worked and we both survived to gig another day......

[BluMunk]

First, I wanted to thank folks for their calming perspectives. I was definitely walking into this with a "it's gotta be this way or it'll be awful!" mindset that was based on nothing other than my own anxiety.

 

We had our tech rehearsal last night- not at the venue so I couldn't really do any detail work, but I at least got everything wired up, confirmed signal was routing where I wanted it to route, and got a good flow of the show. Tonight's opening night and I'm feeling confident.

 

I'm micing the amp as requested, and it made the keyboardist really happy. So that's cool. And, let me say that while I find most "gear X is objectively awful and sounds like crap" arguments to be worth the pixels they're written with, I thought that you all would appreciate that the amp/sound that the keyboardist wants me to capture is his Kawai ES4 running into this:

 

[KuruPrionz]

First, I wanted to thank folks for their calming perspectives. I was definitely walking into this with a "it's gotta be this way or it'll be awful!" mindset that was based on nothing other than my own anxiety.

 

We had our tech rehearsal last night- not at the venue so I couldn't really do any detail work, but I at least got everything wired up, confirmed signal was routing where I wanted it to route, and got a good flow of the show. Tonight's opening night and I'm feeling confident.

 

I'm micing the amp as requested, and it made the keyboardist really happy. So that's cool. And, let me say that while I find most "gear X is objectively awful and sounds like crap" arguments to be worth the pixels they're written with, I thought that you all would appreciate that the amp/sound that the keyboardist wants me to capture is his Kawai ES4 running into this:

 

 

Oe thing a mic offers is a nearly instantaneous way of changing the tone of the instrument. Typically, the center of the speaker will be the brightest spot and near the edge will be much less bright.

It's amazing what a difference moving the mic 5" can make in what comes out of the PA. It's fast and there are no disagreements with the artist over tone settings on the amp. They like it too bright? Mic it less bright. Or vice versa.

[Reezekeys]

I thought that you all would appreciate that the amp/sound that the keyboardist wants me to capture is his Kawai ES4 running into this:

The mic might have improved the sound of that amp!

[timwat]

Hopefully the KB player will end up being a fine player, will play his azzz off, and whatever you can or cannot get out of the muppet hide amp will be a tertiary concern.

[MotiDave]

First, I wanted to thank folks for their calming perspectives. I was definitely walking into this with a "it's gotta be this way or it'll be awful!" mindset that was based on nothing other than my own anxiety.

 

We had our tech rehearsal last night- not at the venue so I couldn't really do any detail work, but I at least got everything wired up, confirmed signal was routing where I wanted it to route, and got a good flow of the show. Tonight's opening night and I'm feeling confident.

 

I'm micing the amp as requested, and it made the keyboardist really happy. So that's cool. And, let me say that while I find most "gear X is objectively awful and sounds like crap" arguments to be worth the pixels they're written with, I thought that you all would appreciate that the amp/sound that the keyboardist wants me to capture is his Kawai ES4 running into this:

 

 

Holy shit. No way!

 

I had the best answer and am surprised nobody thought of it. You should have told the keyboardist not to worry, your speakers are also made of wood and they transform the sound of an AP voice into a concert hall enraptured by a glorious Steinway grand. And then give him a knowing wink and wry smile of assurance.

[MathOfInsects]

I thought that you all would appreciate that the amp/sound that the keyboardist wants me to capture is his Kawai ES4 running into this:

 

 

May I just say that I knew, with the certainty that I know the guy who wants to do your sound and tells you the brand name of his equipment, and the guy whose brother is a guitar player who once played with Joe Satriani and wants to sit in with you, and the guy who "knows everyone in town" and wants to book your band, are all 100% guaranteed not just to stink but to legendarily, comically, epically, stink...I knew with that kind of certainty....the certainty that the "can I have reverb in the monitor" singer can't sing, and that no other gigs have, in the history of gigs, ever come from one played for exposure...I knew with the evangelical certainty of the zealot and disciple alike, with the same level of confidence I have that my name is Josh and it is my very own fingers typing these words right now...I knew with the certainty that the Earth spins and the stars shine and even the best and longest lives eventually end...I knew--KNEW--that this was going to be the amp.

[KuruPrionz]

I thought that you all would appreciate that the amp/sound that the keyboardist wants me to capture is his Kawai ES4 running into this:

 

 

May I just say that I knew, with the certainty that I know the guy who wants to do your sound and tells you the brand name of his equipment, and the guy whose brother is a guitar player who once played with Joe Satriani and wants to sit in with you, and the guy who "knows everyone in town" and wants to book your band, are all 100% guaranteed not just to stink but to legendarily, comically, epically, stink...I knew with that kind of certainty....the certainty that the "can I have reverb in the monitor" singer can't sing, and that no other gigs have, in the history of gigs, ever come from one played for exposure...I knew with the evangelical certainty of the zealot and disciple alike, with the same level of confidence I have that my name is Josh and it is my very own fingers typing these words right now...I knew with the certainty that the Earth spins and the stars shine and even the best and longest lives eventually end...I knew--KNEW--that this was going to be the amp.

 

Well, apparently it still works and sounds pretty OK. I've smelled the yellow smoke, not all amps live long lives.

[KenElevenShadows]

Why take it upon yourself to make this person sound better if he doesn't seem to want to?

 

I think that "better" is relative. If the person loves the way that speaker sounds, that's "better" as far as he is concerned.

 

 

I would mic it & be done with it. If he sees you adding a DI or something else, he'll know that you don't respect his opinion on what makes him sound the way he thinks he should sound. Just be ready to explain to anybody mildly familiar with how this stuff works that the decision to mic was not yours!

 

I don't know that this would necessarily sound "worse". And this is particularly true of synthesizers, which often sound a bit disembodied when using DI.

 

I know I'm in the minority here, but "better" really is relative.

[Reezekeys]

Why take it upon yourself to make this person sound better if he doesn't seem to want to?

 

I think that "better" is relative. If the person loves the way that speaker sounds, that's "better" as far as he is concerned.

 

 

I would mic it & be done with it. If he sees you adding a DI or something else, he'll know that you don't respect his opinion on what makes him sound the way he thinks he should sound. Just be ready to explain to anybody mildly familiar with how this stuff works that the decision to mic was not yours!

 

I don't know that this would necessarily sound "worse". And this is particularly true of synthesizers, which often sound a bit disembodied when using DI.

 

I know I'm in the minority here, but "better" really is relative.

 

Worse or better is of course subjective (and I agree it could sound fine in some circumstances, maybe more than a few), but besides the point in this particular case, imo. If I was doing sound and a keyboard player said "I know a DI is the usual way to put me in the PA, but I really like the way my amp colors the sound, please mic it", you would immediately understand that this person is coming from a position of knowledge - and seeing as he or she is the player, this would warrant my total respect and I would be putting a mic in front of his amp without hesitation. The person described in the op said to mic it because "it's made of wood designed to make it sound more like a real piano." All I said was - if I heard that, I wouldn't bother debating, arguing, etc. - it's not worth the time or energy. Yea, judgemental me. Can't help it when I hear someone say something like that!

[KenElevenShadows]

That is admittedly an odd way of describing why one wants to use an amp.

[MathOfInsects]

The person described in the op said to mic it because "it's made of wood designed to make it sound more like a real piano."

 

I'd hate to think what the speakers he uses to make singers sound like real people, are made out of.

[pinkfloydcramer]

Why take it upon yourself to make this person sound better if he doesn't seem to want to?

 

I think that "better" is relative. If the person loves the way that speaker sounds, that's "better" as far as he is concerned.

 

 

I would mic it & be done with it. If he sees you adding a DI or something else, he'll know that you don't respect his opinion on what makes him sound the way he thinks he should sound. Just be ready to explain to anybody mildly familiar with how this stuff works that the decision to mic was not yours!

 

I don't know that this would necessarily sound "worse". And this is particularly true of synthesizers, which often sound a bit disembodied when using DI.

 

I know I'm in the minority here, but "better" really is relative.

 

I remember a thread here some years ago where a poster claimed good results from mic'ing the onboard speakers of his Yamaha CP300. He claimed that it resulted in a more organic sound that mixed with the other instruments better FOH. He didn't use the term "less disembodied" but I think that's what he may have meant.

 

I would be curious to hear a FOH sound clip of the gig in question.

[KenElevenShadows]

I frequently record my synthesizers in this manner (speaker > microphone). It really does mesh with other instruments quite well if you are talking drums, guitar, bass, etc. Then again, most people use DI bass. I often prefer to use a microphone on a bass cabinet too. I just want moving air. I want bleed. I don't do this all the time because it's not always what the song needs, but often, it IS what the song needs.