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Hammond SKPro with Hammond B3-X Organ VST


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Hi all,

I recently purchased IK Multimedia's Hammond B3-X ( both Mac and iPad version) for use with my Hammond SKPro to compare the sound using a VST versus the SKPro. Yes, I know I suffer from GAS like many keys players and members of this forum . BUT :cool:What else to do after 12 weeks in lockdown in Sydney Australia with Covid 19?!!

Love this forum for keyboard info, reviews and general help and opinions.

I have 2 Questions re using this setup if any members of this forum can help:-

 

1.Using an Apple lightning to USB camera adapter from IPad to Hammond SKPro and selecting the Hammond SK Hammond profile in advanced settings on B3-X -NO response from keyboard to the iPad app?

Can any users of this setup offer any help as to what I have missed or doing wrong?

 

2.When using a MacBook Pro with B3-X loaded connected to the Hammond SKPro via USB- Drawbars, Leslie, Exp controls are mapped successfully BUT having trouble mapping Perc, CV etc using the midi learn function on the B3-X?? Again what am I missing or doing wrong?

 

Any advice with connection and set up would be most appreciated as I have had no response from IK Multimedia support.

Regards

Marc

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For #2, the issue is that MIDI mapping only works for CCs, and unfortunately, the SK Pro Perc and CV don't send standard MIDI CCs, though the drawbars do. (Same issue in the Yamaha YC61/73/88.)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I'm just curious, would B-3X really provide any improvement over what the SK Pro has? I use B-3X at gigs and love it, but I'd think if that is a newer hammond keyboard they'd be pretty similar (?)

 

The first issue sounds like it simply could be a midi channel thing? On the "gear" page, which I guess is probably called advanced settings :), note that there are by default four different receive channels iirc...one for program changes, one for upper, one for lower and one for pedals. Make sure the sk pro is transmitting on whichever of these you want, probably upper.

On that same page on the left, there's a setting for device that B-3x will use. It should see your sk pro there, or at least B-3x sees my Modx and lists it there. I did have one hiccup at a gig after reconnecting the ipad (after recharging between sets) where it refused to show the Modx in the list of options for both midi and audio. I reconnected a few more times and that somehow did the trick.

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For #2, the issue is that MIDI mapping only works for CCs, and unfortunately, the SK Pro Perc and CV don't send standard MIDI CCs, though the drawbars do. (Same issue in the Yamaha YC61/73/88.)

 

Does the SK transmit sysex for the Perc/CV? I used to have a similar problem when I used a VR-700 and a Kronos/Vent combo. I was only using the VR-700 as a controller and the Kronos was providing all the audio, but I wanted the VR-700 drawbars to control the Kronos CX-3 engine drawbars. I used a MIDI Solutions Event Processor box between them to convert the VR-700 drawbar sysex to MIDI CC the Kronos could respond to. It worked perfectly.

"If you can't dazzle them with dexterity, baffle them with bullshit."
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The whole "let's send drawbar info as sysex" is pretty mind-boggling IMO. One would almost get the feeling that the engineers building these things are not organ players ;-) Heck I'm not much of one, but besides the leslie speed, what would you be changing and wanting to move more than the drawbars when it comes to midi? geez.
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The whole "let's send drawbar info as sysex" is pretty mind-boggling IMO. One would almost get the feeling that the engineers building these things are not organ players ;-) Heck I'm not much of one, but besides the leslie speed, what would you be changing and wanting to move more than the drawbars when it comes to midi? geez.

percussion 4 tabs

C/V on/off, both upper and lower

C/V selections V1 through C3

Overdrive

key click

cross talk

 

I control all of these in my Gemini module through midi, in addition to leslie on/off, slow/stop/fast. Part of the reason is that some of the characteristics sound different depending on whether I use the Vent or Burn as the leslie simulator. The vent emphasizes the key click differently than the Burn, as an example. So if it is over-emphasized I have the ability to quickly make the adjustment.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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For #2, the issue is that MIDI mapping only works for CCs, and unfortunately, the SK Pro Perc and CV don't send standard MIDI CCs, though the drawbars do. (Same issue in the Yamaha YC61/73/88.)

Thanks for the reply. That"s a bummer, you"d think that could be implemented in profile with Hammond and B3-X by IK.

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For #2, the issue is that MIDI mapping only works for CCs, and unfortunately, the SK Pro Perc and CV don't send standard MIDI CCs, though the drawbars do. (Same issue in the Yamaha YC61/73/88.)

Thanks for the reply. That"s a bummer, you"d think that could be implemented in profile with Hammond and B3-X by IK.

Yes, it could. If it doesn't work with any of the existing SK profiles, we may have to wait until IK comes out with an update for compatibility ieth the SK Pro... which may or may not happen. Otherwise, there are ways to convert the sysex to CC for manual mapping. There's the aforementioned Event Processor, or Keystage if you're running the iPad version of B-3X, or I'm sure some other program could do the conversion for Mac/PC.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Does B3x offer an improvement over the SKPro internal sounds and Leslie?

Hi kwyn. I really think B3-X is up there with the SKPro in relation to Hammond sounds, Leslie Sim etc and it's a hell of a lot easier for a once B3 player to call up, edit and store a preset sound than the SKPro which I am finding has a steep learning curve. IMHO

regards

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The whole "let's send drawbar info as sysex" is pretty mind-boggling IMO. One would almost get the feeling that the engineers building these things are not organ players ;-) Heck I'm not much of one, but besides the leslie speed, what would you be changing and wanting to move more than the drawbars when it comes to midi? geez.

Hi Stokely. Thanks for your reply and expertise.

This syses thing is a bit beyond me. I, until B3-X have always been a hardware guy with keyboards.But I need to get up to speed with software and technology.

Regards

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I'm just curious, would B-3X really provide any improvement over what the SK Pro has? I use B-3X at gigs and love it, but I'd think if that is a newer hammond keyboard they'd be pretty similar (?)

 

The first issue sounds like it simply could be a midi channel thing? On the "gear" page, which I guess is probably called advanced settings :), note that there are by default four different receive channels iirc...one for program changes, one for upper, one for lower and one for pedals. Make sure the sk pro is transmitting on whichever of these you want, probably upper.

On that same page on the left, there's a setting for device that B-3x will use. It should see your sk pro there, or at least B-3x sees my Modx and lists it there. I did have one hiccup at a gig after reconnecting the ipad (after recharging between sets) where it refused to show the Modx in the list of options for both midi and audio. I reconnected a few more times and that somehow did the trick.

 

Hi Stokely.Thanks for the help and suggestions.I have checked Midi channel and "Gear" settings in advanced settings on B3-X and selected Hammond SK profile. B3-X seen when using my MacBook Pro but not when using iPad version??? I'll try reconnecting as you advised.

I really think B3-X is up there with the SKPro in relation to Hammond sounds, Leslie Sim etc and it's a hell of a lot easier for a once B3 player to call up, edit and store a preset sound than the SKPro which I am finding has a steep learning curve. IMHO. I'll keep trying to sortie out but it's frustrating and no help so far from IK Multimedia.

regards

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The whole "let's send drawbar info as sysex" is pretty mind-boggling IMO. One would almost get the feeling that the engineers building these things are not organ players ;-) Heck I'm not much of one, but besides the leslie speed, what would you be changing and wanting to move more than the drawbars when it comes to midi? geez.

percussion 4 tabs

C/V on/off, both upper and lower

C/V selections V1 through C3

Overdrive

key click

cross talk

 

I control all of these in my Gemini module through midi, in addition to leslie on/off, slow/stop/fast. Part of the reason is that some of the characteristics sound different depending on whether I use the Vent or Burn as the leslie simulator. The vent emphasizes the key click differently than the Burn, as an example. So if it is over-emphasized I have the ability to quickly make the adjustment.

 

Hi Dave, Thanks for your help and advice. If I could edit all of your above CV, Overdrive, key click etc from my Hammond SKPro in the B3-X I'd be " In B3,A100 Heaven".

I will keep looking into the problems. I really think B3-X is right up there with the SKPro in relation to Hammond sounds, Leslie Sim etc and it's a hell of a lot easier ( and cheaper) for a once B3 player to call up, edit and store a preset sound than the SKPro which I am finding has a steep learning curve. IMHO. I love this forum. SO MANY HELPFUL and KNOWLEDABLE PEOPLE!

Regards

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The reason HS used sysex for drawbars was to leave remaining CC's available for all other control's.

 

Its not rocket science for IK to set up the correct mapping for XK3 and SK sysex drawbars. B5 and Logic's Vintage B3 have this option available straight out off the box. Maybe IK are holding it back as a paid upgrade option.

A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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B3X is a significant upgrade over the the XK1c or the SK1. But if I'm comparing B3X to SKPro, to my mind they are very close. I think I slightly prefer B3X, but not enough to want to complicate my setup for gigs. This is all subjective, of course, but I think between B3X and SKPro we're getting into the hair-splitting zone as far as sound quality.

 

As Scott alluded to, it's probably just a matter of time before B3X is upgraded to include full compatibility with the SKPro as controller.

 

The SKPro system is a steep and non-intuitive learning curve, for sure. But it's doable. I recommend joining the SKPro Facebook group. Lots of helpful detailed advice there from owners.,

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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The reason HS used sysex for drawbars was to leave remaining CC's available for all other control's.

Has HS ever used sysex for drawbars? (I know Roland has.) In the case of SK Pro, the drawbars are not the issue, they send CC, it's the percussion and CV controls that only send sysex. And it's not because they needed the CCs for other things, because there are still enough unused CCs that they could have spared one for percussion and one for CV. In fact, they only use 27 of the 128 available CCs, which makes me really wish they had used standard CCs for their front panel mono synth controls, as well.

 

B3X is a significant upgrade over the the XK1c or the SK1. But if I'm comparing B3X to SKPro, to my mind they are very close. I think I slightly prefer B3X, but not enough to want to complicate my setup for gigs. This is all subjective, of course, but I think between B3X and SKPro we're getting into the hair-splitting zone as far as sound quality.

If someone finds both of them equally sonically satisfying, the edge might go to the hardware implementation just for the playability aspect. B-3X can't give you the SK Pro's multi-contact key response, and latency is never a concern for the hardware.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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The reason HS used sysex for drawbars was to leave remaining CC's available for all other control's.

Has HS ever used sysex for drawbars? (I know Roland has.) In the case of SK Pro, the drawbars are not the issue, they send CC, it's the percussion and CV controls that only send sysex. And it's not because they needed the CCs for other things, because there are still enough unused CCs that they could have spared one for percussion and one for CV. In fact, they only use 27 of the 128 available CCs, which makes me really wish they had used standard CCs for their front panel mono synth controls, as well.

 

B3X is a significant upgrade over the the XK1c or the SK1. But if I'm comparing B3X to SKPro, to my mind they are very close. I think I slightly prefer B3X, but not enough to want to complicate my setup for gigs. This is all subjective, of course, but I think between B3X and SKPro we're getting into the hair-splitting zone as far as sound quality.

If someone finds both of them equally sonically satisfying, the edge might go to the hardware implementation just for the playability aspect. B-3X can't give you the SK Pro's multi-contact key response, and latency is never a concern for the hardware.

 

Been a while since I last wrestled with the XK3 as I use B5 and it auto maps. Both our references to sysex are wrong, the correct answer is the XK-3 drawbars (and SK, but not XK5) send out only three CC message numbers: #80 for all the upper drawbars, #81 for all the lower drawbars and #82 for the two pedal drawbars. CV and percussion are also CC , never had an issue mapping these manually even with VB3 1.4 or B4.

A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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Both our references to sysex are wrong, the correct answer is the XK-3 drawbars (and SK, but not XK5) send out only three CC message numbers: #80 for all the upper drawbars, #81 for all the lower drawbars

I'm not sure what you're saying is wrong in my post regarding sysex. But which SK model is it that sends CC#80 for all upper drawbars and CC#81 for all lower?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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