Sadly, I had to turn them off....

[allan_evett]

I have also found that the Pastor (usually unknowingly) can really affect how people react in worship. If the Pastor is not paying attention, talking to other staff instead of singing his or her heart out, people will be much more reserved. If the Pastor has hands raised, singing joyfully and passionately, the flock will be inspired to follow.

 

 

Then there is the pastor who gets in the way by paying too much attention to the music. I worked with one for the better part of a year who insisted on accompanying the band on acoustic guitar - even with another competent rhythm guitarist (acoustic and electric) in the band. He. Had. No.Time, but he thought he sort of did . At least the guy knew he couldn't sing on pitch, and left that area alone. I'm generally accomodating different skill levels, and had been known to have up-and-coming players jump in; but typically I would run their DI or mic level low (or off). With this pastor that didn't help, as he would gesture wildly to the music in a land of his own time - which often confused the congregation, not to mention the band. Especially on opening and closing songs it was like having a rodeo clown onstage, at a pep rally of sorts.

[EricBarker]

When I'm radio station flipping and I hear something that sounds like a Hair Metal Ballad, in 2020, and isn't obviously Steel Panther, I can be pretty sure Jesus is right around the corner!

[allan_evett]

When I'm radio station flipping and I hear something that sounds like a Hair Metal Ballad, in 2020, and isn't obviously Steel Panther, I can be pretty sure Jesus is right around the corner!

 

 

There was a time when it seemed like every other modern church music ballad had the vibe of 'Every Rose Has Its Thorn'.

[mcgoo]

When I'm radio station flipping and I hear something that sounds like a Hair Metal Ballad, in 2020, and isn't obviously Steel Panther, I can be pretty sure Jesus is right around the corner!

 

That's not really where contemporary Christian music is at. This is.... And (as I referenced earlier) everything else coming out follows this exact formula.

 

[video:youtube]

[Music Bird]

So it"s basically indie pop music with Christian themes. In my church they only play hymns fortunately.

[allan_evett]

 

That's not really where contemporary Christian music is at. This is.... And (as I referenced earlier) everything else coming out follows this exact formula.

 

....

 

 

Yes, it has moved on to this. I personally prefer it to the 'hair ballad' sound, but your comment on formula rings very true. At least within church music, following formula in a narrow, focused manner may put some butts in the seats (til the next formula turns up...), but it limits awareness of the rich variety of music to be experienced. I all but knew my efforts were naught when, during a planning meeting, the pastor and associate nixed my suggestion of including styles in the gospel tradition (especially material I learned hanging with COGIC friends), older country/folk, Broadway, etc.. All they wanted was music like what you posted above, Greg. Oh, and bluegrass; the pastor liked bluegrass. That's fine, I like playing bluegrass (kicks my behind, on piano); but the shutting down of other creative resources was discouraging. As an older - and wiser - leader/director friend once advised me: 'You really can't win a disagreement with a pastor, especially a newer one.

[dixonge]

Here's the problem (imho)

 

Demographic trends are devestatingly anti-church. This is driving the decimation of smaller churches and the consolidation into megachurches. Sure, some will buck the trend and move to a more liturgical/orthodox church, but that's a very small shift inside of a much larger wave. Part of the trend is the huge gap in youth, which *should* be the next generation of church-goers. Megachurches and contemporary worship are the antidotes currently in use, but it's a bucket of water thrown on a raging forest fire.

 

You can try every form of change to music in church, from absolute silence to Gregorian chants to chorale to Hillsong pop to arena rock. None of it will change the underlying trend. Stop the bleeding of membership/participation decline and then you can move to the 'best' music that you prefer. Until then, everyone will just keep trying pretty much everything in some desperate attempt. Yes, people want less hymns and more contemporary music, in general. But that's only the people who stay. It does nothing to solve the problem of the people who left and will never come back. That's much more of a theological problem.

[Kurt W]

I'm reminded of that video someone posted a few years ago of someone comparing 5 country songs. All with the same beat, chord progression, tempo and feel. It ended with the 5 songs all playing at once and locking in so tight that it sounded like one single song.

 

This?

[CEB]

Yes liturgy shouldn"t change much. You make it harder on the parishioners to be totally involved if you change liturgy every week. Church isn"t a concert.

 

 

Have a great week everyone.

[AnotherScott]

I'm reminded of that video someone posted a few years ago of someone comparing 5 country songs. All with the same beat, chord progression, tempo and feel. It ended with the 5 songs all playing at once and locking in so tight that it sounded like one single song.

 

This?

The one you posted was the "original" song the guy came up with, based on the others. Here's the one with the actual near-identical songs...

 

[Docbop]

From the two church I went to steady before moving had great music programs and were a part of what got people to come to church and become fans of the ministers and the message being spoken. I would say the key to both churches was "go with the flow" don't be afraid to change things up even during a service. Sometime the congregation was really getting into the music and the choir so give them what they want. It would get the congregation involved and they sat for the message being delivered. It was an extreme but one service the congregation was so into the music the minister just went with it, he was very good at reading the congregation and the whole service ended up being music. Even the row of little old ladies in their hats was enjoy it hearing lots of old hymns the singers and choir pulled out keep the spirit moving in the church.

 

The church I worked at never did an entire service of music but would add an extra song or two if the congregation was really feeling it. Now we did have a full house for our Wednesday night service and last service on Sunday because many knew the band would hang out after service and jam. The band and the band members were as much a part of the church as the minister. So key for these churches was a minister that could read the congregation and give them what they wanted so they would stay and get the message.

 

Also know your audience the first church I mentioned built up a huge youth ministry, by giving them what they wanted a young approach to church. They had there own music ministry and Kirk Franklin was part of it helping get the musicians and singers the youth wanted. There services were energetic, more slang, but the young people felt it was theirs and wanted to attend. Once a year the Youth ministry got to take over Sunday service and it was quite a sight and sound. Now the row of little old ladies in their hats weren't that fond, but they knew it was just one service so most would go along with it.

 

So church to keep the seats filled so they can get their message need to listen to it congregation and not be afraid of going with the flow when it feels right. If you run it like a boot camp you are going to have trouble filling the seats and attracting new members and if that happens you've lost you purpose of getting your message out.

[allan_evett]

 

The band and choir were run by the choir director who was Jazz artist in past and she still puts out spiritual records not and then. Our guest artists varied a lot and included instrumental guests occasionally. The band would have guests sit in and well know singers would sit in now and then. So there was an element of surprised in the music of the church.

 

There are a handful of video on YouTube of our choir, but the one below is one of my favorites because how it turned out was unexpected. Ricky Rouse had subbed in the band a couple times, but this time the Ricki Byars had told Ricky to just go for it. Everyone loved it.

 

 

Somehow I missed that one the first time around; it's inspiring. Thanks for posting it!

 

It continues to be a long, and more recently twisted journey through church music. I'm now much happier being an accompanist in the Catholic church than attempting to direct a music program in wich there is constant pressure to produce a formulaic concert event. And in a bizarre twist, I remember being 'Logic Pro X shamed' a couple times: "What, you don't use Ableton Live?!"...

[miden]

Perhaps this thread should be marked OT? It does seem to have a religious fervour to it

[RABid]

The music director of the church in question seems to be making the same mistake that I have seen a dozen bar bands make, not playing for the audience. I've been in bands with talented members who played what they wanted to play and ignored the desires and wishes of the audience. Then they cannot understand why a band with less talent is drawing bigger crowds, booked every week, and getting paid more. It is because those bands know how to identify and play for an audience, and "slip in" the songs they want to do and make the audience enjoy those songs in small doses. I've quit bands that never got the concept of target market. The church in question has stated that their target audience for the music is the young crowd, yet the average age of the congregation is over 45. They never give any thought to the older crowd, who continue to come to that church despite the music, not because of it. But, this is an issue for any group of musicians playing for an audience. There is a talent for recognizing an audience and a willingness to put the audience first above your own desires that some musicians never learn.

[churchkeybob]

Lately after church, I come home and search out the facebook live streams of a number of local churches just to see what others are playing. So far what I've seen wasn't what I was expecting. Two things are happening in this area. One is that a lot of churches need to work on their presentation on line. The sound mix of their music is stunningly poor. Two is that a coulple of churches let their MDs write and perform their own songs. This would be cool if they had just a little more talent, none the less, it isn't working in my opinion. I think they are trying to get away from the pop and formula music but originals don't seem to cut it. I'd like to brag on my church and our music except for the last two years we've been playing the formula music too. I thought it was just the new MD and his choice of music but after reading through this thread I guess it's happening at other churches also. I'll pat myself on the back by saying that last year my church wanted to purchase Ableton and I talked them out of it. here comes my opinion again, the first time you hear what Ableton can do, it's cool. then after it's used on every song it gets really old. Cheers. ~BOB