Powered full-range speaker cabinets etc etc

[kpl1228]

So my more-in-touch-with-musical-things friend has talked me out of my amp rack/linemixer/passive speaker idea, and loudly announced that powered full-range speakers cabinets by JBL or EV are the way for keyboard players to go, for playing live. As it's been awhile since I played out, I defer to his suggestion.

5 or six years ago, I got a used powered JBL 2-way cabinet and was disappointed by the punch, range, and power of it, when compared to my amp rack and passive cabinet.. It was probably entry level. Returned it almost immediately.

I know I tend to play louder than many people (my hearing's fine, but I do love punchy rock and roll).

Without this turning into a discussion about running direct, monitor feeds, in-ears, stage volume, and volume/hearing loss (please stay on topic), what do you all suggest for the powered fullrange cabinet for playing clubs live? Will not always be loud places, but I definitely want that option. And if you have one and love it, suggest it: I'm shopping.

[jeffincltnc]

There's plenty of choices for every budget from $250 for Alto TS3 series to $1,500+ for RCF and everything between. I like the QSC K series.

[Docbop]

Wanting Punchy I would got with a cabinet with multiple 10" speakers. 10's respond faster for that punch, they have more clarity, and multiple 10's will move a lot of air giving you volume. So many of the powered speaker are one a 12 or 15 which is nice for bottom, but that is a lot of paper to get moving and you lose the punch. Also in a smaller room you can't turn the volume up to get a 12" or 15" speaker to start speaking fully. Also 10's are easier to hear on stage when playing. They develop their sound quickly unlike 12" and 15" the sound doesn't develop for a few feet away. That part of reason bass players today play 10's more that bigger speaker they are easier to hear on stage and more punch and clarity.

 

It's all about pushing air, multiple small speakers will push more air than a single large speaker.

[Delaware Dave]

I use a single EV ELX112P Link and I can report full range, warm sound and the single unit keeps up with the both guitar players who both use high power Marshall amps. I can't imagine how loud 2 of them would be. I sit when I play and prop the speaker on a milk crate. Even sitting off the ground, plenty of bass and full sound. The cabinet is wood, not ABS, which I believe in part contributes to the warmer sound when compared to speakers subplanted into ABS structures. I have had it since 2013 and has not failed me yet despite being driven loudly.

[Tusker]

You will find all the performance you are looking for in a powered cabinet and then some. Lots of great choices.

 

 

I still enjoy my K series by QSC. The K.2's are even more powerful. If you are really concerned about being heard, consider the 12 inch K12 or K12.2. They have a narrower dispersion than the 10s and 8s, but they throw full range sound all the way to the back of a large hall, or across a town square.

[niacin]

Wanting Punchy I would got with a cabinet with multiple 10" speakers. 10's respond faster for that punch, they have more clarity, and multiple 10's will move a lot of air giving you volume. So many of the powered speaker are one a 12 or 15 which is nice for bottom, but that is a lot of paper to get moving and you lose the punch. Also in a smaller room you can't turn the volume up to get a 12" or 15" speaker to start speaking fully. Also 10's are easier to hear on stage when playing. They develop their sound quickly unlike 12" and 15" the sound doesn't develop for a few feet away. That part of reason bass players today play 10's more that bigger speaker they are easier to hear on stage and more punch and clarity.

 

It's all about pushing air, multiple small speakers will push more air than a single large speaker.

 

This. I play a lot of left hand bass, sometimes Hammond, sometimes an electric bass sample. I use a Line6 L3t. 2 tens and a horn. 2-way cabinets are light and convenient, but for real full range with punch and throw a 3-way with 2 tens wins hands down.

[hazerkeys]

I used to have the two powered speaker / mixer setup ... but way too much stuff ... loving my Motion Sound KP500 .....

[hazerkeys]

I used to have the two powered speaker / mixer setup ... but way too much stuff ... loving my Motion Sound KP500 .....

[cphollis]

I think your friend is steering you in the right direction. I agree that 10s give you more punch where it matters if that's what you're doing, the more the merrier.

 

The industry appears to have settled on the 2-way form factor as an ideal combination of cost, size, weight, volume for most folks. There are other options available, of course. I played through a pair of 3-ways for a while, and it did sound completely awesome. They were also quite heavy and big.

 

Lots of people really like the newer QSC K.2 series, myself included. A pair of those at 3/4ths is terrifyingly loud yet clean. Add a sub and they get even louder and cleaner. Similar stories from owners of similar EVs, Yamahas, etc. So no bad choices, really.

[Sam Mullins]

I'm quite happy with my QSC K10.2's for my duo...clean and plenty loud for the small venue's I play. If I was just using them for keyboard amp, I might consider the K8.2's, which people seem to favor for acoustic piano.

[Chris Link]

I"ve been pretty pleased with the QSC CP-12. I would have liked to A/B with the K2 but it"s a pretty nice powered speaker for $500 vs $850.

 

Nice inputs (1/4', XLR and 1/8' summed to mono), useful EQ presets and pretty lightweight (36#).

 

No 10' version, however, only 8' and 12'.

[kpl1228]

No one does 15's?

[16251]

Wanting Punchy I would got with a cabinet with multiple 10" speakers. 10's respond faster for that punch, they have more clarity, and multiple 10's will move a lot of air giving you volume. So many of the powered speaker are one a 12 or 15 which is nice for bottom, but that is a lot of paper to get moving and you lose the punch. Also in a smaller room you can't turn the volume up to get a 12" or 15" speaker to start speaking fully. Also 10's are easier to hear on stage when playing. They develop their sound quickly unlike 12" and 15" the sound doesn't develop for a few feet away. That part of reason bass players today play 10's more that bigger speaker they are easier to hear on stage and more punch and clarity.

 

It's all about pushing air, multiple small speakers will push more air than a single large speaker.

 

What you said made me think of what I remember back in 70's and the name Barbetta. I vaguely remember Keyboard ads with Chick endorsing them. Anyway, it appears they are still around Barbetta speakers. I have never been able to warm up to 8" or single 10". The double 10" is very intriguing but I've always wanted low schlep after early years, when I owned speakers like Heil, so Barbetta was never an option to own.

[MotiDave]

No one does 15's?

 

15"s don"t seem to carry the high frequencies clean and clear enough for keys. Jmo. I prefer a 12 to get the balls-deep low end because many of the sets/bands i play in have a lot of synth where that thick full sound matters. my highs seem to come through strong and clean with a 12, I don"t feel a punch lag or mud as some mentioned. If you have less need for deep thick low-mids, 10s are the most common choice around these parts.

 

My favorites are EV, QSC K.2"s (not original K"s which jmo sound shrill), and Yamaha DXR or better grade.

 

I have the same ELX112P Del-Dave recommends, I bought it now at least 7 yrs ago based on his recommend. Love it. EV have newer models now that are even better i hear, with iOS app controls etc. Yamaha are warm yet bright, love those any time i play through them. I never liked original QSC K series but their Kx.2"s are improved.

 

I have never liked JBL, Alto or the other lower cost options. They aren"t horrible but they aren"t great, again jmo. As you won"t buy a PPA often, i would not scrimp on $100 or $200 to get to that next level but everyone"s financial situation is different. I don"t know the very top end of options (e.g RCF) - most reviews say they are better but the cost increase exceeds the value increase so its an indulgent purchase - again for some the financial part doesnt matter and its right for them.

 

Last note - pushing PPAs to the top limit reduces sound quality (like pushing anything). Look for SPL > 130 and -3db low end of ~50Hz if you want to rock out hard and full with a bit of head room. Don"t be fooled by power ratings as those are electrical power CONSUMPTION values, not sound power output. If a speaker doesn"t report their SPL - its automatically not considered by me. Bonus for mfg"s that publish full spectrum response - you want as flat as possible.

[The_Star_Guy]

+1

 

I agree with both your analysis and your brand choices as well, for similar reasons.

[KuruPrionz]

Wanting Punchy I would got with a cabinet with multiple 10" speakers. 10's respond faster for that punch, they have more clarity, and multiple 10's will move a lot of air giving you volume. So many of the powered speaker are one a 12 or 15 which is nice for bottom, but that is a lot of paper to get moving and you lose the punch. Also in a smaller room you can't turn the volume up to get a 12" or 15" speaker to start speaking fully. Also 10's are easier to hear on stage when playing. They develop their sound quickly unlike 12" and 15" the sound doesn't develop for a few feet away. That part of reason bass players today play 10's more that bigger speaker they are easier to hear on stage and more punch and clarity.

 

It's all about pushing air, multiple small speakers will push more air than a single large speaker.

 

 

But wait, there's more!!!

10" speakers have a broader dispersion than 15" speakers. Bass spreads out but highs are "beamed" in a narrow path with a 15" and 10"s (or better still 8"s) disperse high frequencies with a wider pattern so you can hear the clarity from more angles on stage. This means your fellow bandmates will hear you more clearly playing through smaller speakers. Since smaller speakers can reproduce higher frequencies the crossover point is likely to be higher as well, which smooths out that "honk" we sometimes hear with a 15" two way speaker.

 

The QSC 8.2 is an amazing speaker, consider a small subwoofer for the low frequencies and it would be hard to beat that sound/portability factor.

[ElmerJFudd]

While it"s true that 8s aren"t going to produce much in the 10s of hertz, this area of the keyboards craps all over the bass player and bass drum anyway. When I work mixing board FOH, it"s the first area of keys channel(s) that get attenuated with an HPF. Now if you are playing LH bass, dual manual organ, solo piano, etc., that"s a horse of a different color. Supplementing with a sub or a larger speaker may be preferable. But also heavier.

[CEB]

..... what do you all suggest for the powered fullrange cabinet for playing clubs live? Will not always be loud places, but I definitely want that option. And if you have one and love it, suggest it: I'm shopping.

 

A pair of EV ETX 12Ps. 15s would be killer but the footprint sucks.

[b3plyr]

I'm quite happy with my QSC K10.2's for my duo...clean and plenty loud for the small venue's I play. If I was just using them for keyboard amp, I might consider the K8.2's, which people seem to favor for acoustic piano.

 

This is exactly what I do with two K10.2s. I also have a a K8.2, and with keys it easily holds it own. Never had a problem with punch and they have plenty of power. I have played large gigs with the K10.2s.

[skipeb3]

I was using a pair of Barbetta Sona41's...sounded great, but started to have issues. So, it was time for a new amp rig. I checked out just about every powered monitor on the market... JBL, Mackie, QSC, Cerwin Vega, Electro-Voice, etc, etc...even checked out Peavey. Every one of them, even though they were all good, seemed to lack something I needed. Number of inputs, eq, $$$, too heavy...something. I was about to put my search on the back burner when I found this in-house brand from Musicians Friend... Harbinger. They had all the features I needed...3 inputs, eq, XLR outs, etc. Not too heavy and not expensive. Two cabinets cost less than one from the other brands. I figured if they didn't measure up, I wouldn't be out too much money...but they sound great. I'm very happy with them. I got 2 V4112's with 12" woofers... $400 each. The 15" model is $450.

I'm running two keyboards thru them... a DP & a SK1.

BTW, I'm not associated with the brand, or any retailer... just telling my story.

[ElmerJFudd]

I was using a pair of Barbetta Sona41's...sounded great, but started to have issues. So, it was time for a new amp rig. I checked out just about every powered monitor on the market... JBL, Mackie, QSC, Cerwin Vega, Electro-Voice, etc, etc...even checked out Peavey. Every one of them, even though they were all good, seemed to lack something I needed. Number of inputs, eq, $$$, too heavy...something. I was about to put my search on the back burner when I found this in-house brand from Musicians Friend... Harbinger. They had all the features I needed...3 inputs, eq, XLR outs, etc. Not too heavy and not expensive. Two cabinets cost less than one from the other brands. I figured if they didn't measure up, I wouldn't be out too much money...but they sound great. I'm very happy with them. I got 2 V4112's with 12" woofers... $400 each. The 15" model is $450.

I'm running two keyboards thru them... a DP & a SK1.

BTW, I'm not associated with the brand, or any retailer... just telling my story.

 

iOS app to control the DSP is nice. To step out and EQ for the room.

129db max spl

35-22khz freq response

2500 watts

42 lbs

[Al Quinn]

I'm happy with the Motion Sound KP-610S. Two 10's angled slightly, built in mixer, built in spatial effect, and it continues to provide a large stereo soundstage with good quality sound even when pushed. Motion Sound also has keyboard amps with two 8's, 12's, or 15's. I also have a pair of RCF TT08As. They sound great and continue to sound great when pushed. Lately, I've been gigging with the KP-610S rather than the RCFs because the KP-610S is easier to place on the stage; on some gigs I've struggled with placement of a pair of powered monitors. The QSC K8s and K10s I had a few years ago sounded very good but became harsh when pushed. The QSC .2 versions of these speakers are very popular -- perhaps the harshness has been addressed.

[Jerry Huber]

I recently auditioned to be a keyboard sub for a 70's rock bar band and decided I needed a different amp. I normally use a Bose L1 II with B2 sub for the acoustic guitar duo I'm in, but I've never been totally happy with the acoustic piano sound from it. It's very good, but not great. I have an ancient Barbetta SE41 and never liked the AP sound, either. My Motion Sound KM12 is even worse. I wanted a unit that could go down to near 40 MHz because I play LH bass but I will not with this rock band. Searching for something to play with the rock band, but small enough to bring to a jam session. Although 15" speakers easily meet the low, I thought the mid-highs wouldn't be as good and I wanted to stay under 50 lbs. I didn't want to buy a sub to meet the low end. More money, more things to carry.

 

After hours of researching and building a spreadsheet of specifications, I decided to get a 12". I couldn't find a 10" that met the low end. I've read RCF's (TT 22-A II) are the top of the line for consumer products, never heard one and found a delivery time of 6-10 weeks. There are professional units from other companies running thousands of dollars, but I can't justify that level of spending to play in local bars. The high end units have networking capability which I don't need or want to pay for, that can add $300. I always thought JBL (SRX812P) to be near the top of speaker lines, but that unit is 59 lbs. and nobody had one to hear. In northern Indiana, there's few stores that have units in stock to listen to. I was able to narrow it down to a Yamaha DZR12, QSC 12.2 and a EV ETX-12P. I chose the Yamaha after a blind listening test, the salesman said the same. I'm confident it will be loud enough for the rock band, yet sounds good at low volumes, too.

[El Lobo]

I just got a JBL Eon One compact, thanks to discussions on this board. 8" speaker + tweeter, rechargeable battery powered, onboard mixer, many inputs, and the main reason for getting it -- weight is just under 18 pounds. I gig with a pair of older QSC K8s. I've gigged once with the JBL. Band guys liked the sound, said they could hear it clearly, organ sound cut through. That gig was with my new Casio S1 which weighs just under 10 pounds. Also use my lightweight Stay stand. There's a theme here -- trying to reduce schlep factor. I probably won't gig the S1 much more - I'm too used to my Nord and I was having trouble finding settings on the S1 with only a few seconds between songs. But I'll gig the JBL some more. I'm also using it at home, bluetoothing from my laptop to it playing radio, youtubes, itunes. It has an app so I can adjust volume and EQ from my phone.

[stoken6]

@El Lobo - does the JBL have enough volume for a "band gig" i.e. keep up with a drumkit and guitar amps etc?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[drawback]

I'm wondering about the JBL Eon One compact â can it be linked with another for stereo?

 

Edit - the specs indicate there"s a pass-through for extending the sound, but not for stereo separation.

[El Lobo]

Yes, I think the JBL Eon One compact has enough volume for the bands I'm in, which are typical bands running PA from the stage with guitar, bass, drums, vocals. and me on sax & keys. None of the bands play at ear-pain volume levels and none mic everything through the PA. Only thing in the PA is vocals and sometimes sax, sometimes mic the kick drum for added dance floor punch. If any of the bands play large venues with FOH sound and engineer, then the JBL would be keys monitor anyway and keys would go direct to the board for volume control by FOH sound guy. I think if I was to regularly gig the JBL I'd want a 2nd one so I would have stereo, just like I do now with 2 QSC K8s. I almost ordered a 2nd one but the wiser part of me kicked in and I decided to wait until I have more gig experience with the JBL so I have better answers to questions about volume and sound, etc.

[kpl1228]

OP here....a year and change later, sorry about the delay. Got a good used JBL PRX512M, not great but not bad and does the job, but I don't love it. Highs are lacking, muddy, at least to me. Will investigate that QSC K2.2 12" as it gets rave reviews