What older keys players should say to younger keys players

[Gary75]

This topic reminds me of this

 

[video:youtube]

[Legatoboy]

Gear is a very important tool as a modern keyboard player/artist and essential. But working one's musicality and skills is ultimately 'more' important .... never ever forget that fact.

[nursers]

It needs a B3....

 

This exactly - when I was a young player myself I used to sneer at the idea of these old B3s still being relevant. Then I played one

[16251]

First -

 

I would compare the tech nirvana of today... In 9th grade, I owned a Vox Continental with a Ampeg B18. Then I upgraded to a Leslie 825. (I wanted a B3, but wasn't going to happen.) I also got a old wooden Wurlitzer (maybe a 120/145?) By the 11 grade I switched to piano and bought my first Rhodes and lost interest in organ-based rock music.

 

Add 50 years and I recently just bought a Mojo 61. Today's youth can now own this board and cover everything I had back then without the backache.

 

Second -

 

I would say to younger players. Before deciding to attend college for music, be sure you can already play.

[Morizzle]

What older keys players should say to younger keys players:

 

"Great set, that sounded amazing and really fresh! I'm still noodling the same blues licks I learned 40 years ago!"

[Threadslayer]

Where is Wastrel? And dare I ask lest it summons him, Beetlejuice-style: what became of I-Miss-Richard-Tee?

 

Can't speak to IMRT's absence, which I've wondered about, but re. Wastrel, I'm still here operating under a name I picked for Halloween a year or two ago and decided to keep.

 

thanks,

 

Threadslayer (nee Wastrel)

[EscapeRocks]

As I get older (58 now) I simply find myself being encouraging. I tell young and or aspiring piano/keys players to stick with it and enjoy it, as playing music will give them a lifetime of joy, whether playing for yourself or others.

 

Other than that, I don't get into detailed specifics or so called horror stories of life a s a musician, unless I am asked specifically. I am always willing to offer advice/mentoring to kids who want to get into music, even if it's not piano.

[obxa]

Be able to play as soloist (cocktail piano-standards etc.)

 

Very fortunate to have an older guy school me early on : that while band, touring, synths, & session stuff is wonderful and exiting; if I was able to do that, I would always work (..and eat). No matter the current state of the music business, world, economy, etc.

That skill has saved my ass more times than anything else.

[Sam CA]

As I get older (58 now) I simply find myself being encouraging. I tell young and or aspiring piano/keys players to stick with it and enjoy it, as playing music will give them a lifetime of joy, whether playing for yourself or others.

 

Other than that, I don't get into detailed specifics or so called horror stories of life a s a musician, unless I am asked specifically. I am always willing to offer advice/mentoring to kids who want to get into music, even if it's not piano.

 

 

You're being very reasonable. That's a great way to approach the matter. If I'm prepared to get into details, then and only then I give a specific advice ...after I check their repertoire, musicianship and things that one would need to evaluate the situation. There are far too many variables for one to come up with a stupid get a day job kind of advice!

 

I hope they won't say the things that people told me for years especially during high school years. I have lived on 3 continents. The general consensus ...or the default music advice preset that "advisers" wake up to is something along these lines. Keep music/performance/composition as a hobby....get a day job .... unless your family has connections you're not gonna make it .... and so on and so forth. Even musicians tend to give random suggestions like these without taking anything into consideration. %99 of the advice I received between the age of 15 -22 ballpark was pure BS. I'm glad I did exactly the opposite, but man when almost everyone tells you the same thing at a young age, it does make one lose focus in a way. At some point you think there's no way all these people are wrong. It's probably much easier to receive encouraging positive support these days but it was really tough in 90s when my access to info was pretty much limited to the people I spoke to in real life.

[Stokely]

"Run!"

 

Seriously: "Embrace tracks. Everyone's doing them and audiences not only don't mind them, they are started to get used to them." I think it sucks ****s but if I was making a living doing this I'd probably use them too (ie, I don't blame the musicians). I won't watch a show on any level (including some local bands) that runs them though, so it means my days of watching big pop/rock music concerts are probably over.

[Threadslayer]

Be able to play as soloist (cocktail piano-standards etc.)

.

That's a good one. I remember going out to dinner with my parents in the '60s and seeing tired looking old guys in threadbare tuxedos with a smile pasted on their face cranking out the tunes at piano bars and thinking to myself "no way am I going to end up like that". I was going to be a rock star you see. Ah but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

[TommyRude]

On the simplest tunes (Tennessee Whiskey) every song, I love focusing on locking in with the band as much as humanly possible and making every fill as close to Nashville perfection as I can, serving the presentation of the singer and band as best I can.

 

Note: I read this in the boring songs thread and found it to be universally excellent advice for younger players, or any players for that matter. I made a few edits, hopefully that's OK Bobadohshe!

[TommyS]

Get a real job,,,

[GovernorSilver]

If I came across a 19-year-old clone of myself, I'd tell him:

 

1. Don't buy any of those guitars you're ogling - today's equivalents would be PRS SE, Fender American Professional, etc. - you can't afford them anyway. Get a Casio CT-S1.

2. Look harder for that old East European woman that offered to teach you classical piano for free.

3. Start recording yourself ASAP, and as often as possible

4. If you can't find that old woman, milk all the time you can get from your piano teachers in college/uni for all its worth - make sure you prepare good questions, not just a bunch of dumb ones

[David Emm]

"You spilled a beer into my Memorymoog!! Your line ends HERE!!!"

[Outkaster]

Be able to play as soloist (cocktail piano-standards etc.)

 

Very fortunate to have an older guy school me early on : that while band, touring, synths, & session stuff is wonderful and exiting; if I was able to do that, I would always work (..and eat). No matter the current state of the music business, world, economy, etc.

That skill has saved my ass more times than anything else.

 

 

I get the advice but some guys don't like to play standards or are geared for it.

[El Lobo]

Be able to play as soloist (cocktail piano-standards etc.)

.

That's a good one. I remember going out to dinner with my parents in the '60s and seeing tired looking old guys in threadbare tuxedos with a smile pasted on their face cranking out the tunes at piano bars and thinking to myself "no way am I going to end up like that". I was going to be a rock star you see. Ah but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

I've had a few friends over the years who did cocktail/restaurant/piano bar gigs. I think you have to be cut out to play that kind of piano and be happy in it. I think some very good keys players probably couldn't do it for any length of time and not be miserable after a while. Yes, it's probably true that you could always work. But even if I could play that style, which I can't, I think I'd come to hate it if I was doing it a few nights a week for several years. Maybe not. If I got really good at it and kept getting better, maybe I could keep doing it with some enjoyment. From what I've seen of other players I've known, it can be a tough grind. But then, so can anything you do over and over again.

[obxa]

If that's all I did, I'd be depressed or an alcoholic -unfortunately like many of my pianist friends who only do solo. But it's always helped fill the white space on my calendar.

 

When I did long running gigs at hotels or restaurants in between bands or projects, was grateful for the $$ but it was always my incentive to find the next thing. Did a couple of solo international hotel gigs that were very cool and well paid. Conversely, cruise ship gigs were pretty much the 9 circles of hell-where I would of gladly jumped overboard to play with even the worst bar band instead.

 

But yes very much to each his own. It's a great way to work on your chops, expand your song repetoire, and occasionally make some good connections.

 

As you said , anything can get old after a while.

[GovernorSilver]

"You spilled a beer into my Memorymoog!! Your line ends HERE!!!"

 

How barbaric and wasteful, as this merely lands you in jail for stomping on the kid, and nobody pays for repair to your Memorymoog.

 

The smarter course of action would be to get Markyboard to fix the Memorymoog, and make the kid mow his lawn all summer to pay for it.

[Threadslayer]

Be able to play as soloist (cocktail piano-standards etc.)

.

That's a good one. I remember going out to dinner with my parents in the '60s and seeing tired looking old guys in threadbare tuxedos with a smile pasted on their face cranking out the tunes at piano bars and thinking to myself "no way am I going to end up like that". I was going to be a rock star you see. Ah but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

I've had a few friends over the years who did cocktail/restaurant/piano bar gigs. I think you have to be cut out to play that kind of piano and be happy in it. I think some very good keys players probably couldn't do it for any length of time and not be miserable after a while. Yes, it's probably true that you could always work. But even if I could play that style, which I can't, I think I'd come to hate it if I was doing it a few nights a week for several years. Maybe not. If I got really good at it and kept getting better, maybe I could keep doing it with some enjoyment. From what I've seen of other players I've known, it can be a tough grind. But then, so can anything you do over and over again.

I should have finished my little vignette above with: As a result, I went out of my way to NOT learn standards or cocktail piano style. These days I do play solo gigs occasionally and some of that would come in handy - particularly with people of a certain age. People will tell me "I love your playing, but how come you play all those songs that no one ever heard of?"

[area51recording]

Never thought about the solo gig until I got one handed to me in 2002. I just started back this month after being off it since last March. I actually really dig it, always have, the tips are great, more often then not at least as much as the gig pays, and I dig interacting with the crowd as well......

[David Emm]

"You spilled a beer into my Memorymoog!! Your line ends HERE!!!"

 

How barbaric and wasteful, as this merely lands you in jail for stomping on the kid, and nobody pays for repair to your Memorymoog.

The smarter course of action would be to get Markyboard to fix the Memorymoog, and make the kid mow his lawn all summer to pay for it.

 

HAH! You're completely right, of course. The truth is, I once saw that happen with an orange Fanta and a Polymoog. The keyboardist (not me, I swear) lost it and the scene turned into a "Benny the Bouncer" melee for a minute. The proper response is to quickly turn the instrument OFF and then electric-shave the guy's eyebrows off as the crowd cheers. Its the measured response. Also good theater.

 

I'm sure there are enough stories of damaged/destroyed gear on the road to make the ultimate keyboard cringe book. Losing a treasured vintage guitar to breakage/lightning is a thing of horror, but its not that far from seeing a lighting strut cleave your NORD LEAD in twain. I saw two wankers tip a real tack piano over at the end of the truck ramp, knocking out a few of its teeth. I must have made a bad sound, because people turned and stared at me. The horror, the horror!

 

My advice to younger players: always get wheeled cases and even a dolly. It'll add years to your playing life by delaying the hobbled zone, at which time that cartage thing becomes dubious-to-impossible.

 

This where I smirk because my cartage is now 2 XKeys.

[timwat]

People will tell me "I love your playing, but how come you play all those songs that no one ever heard of?"

 

I have found the fool-proof way to keep solo piano gigs interesting. It's to play the gig using a Keith Jarrett approach.

 

And by that, I mean vocally.

[elsongs]

Young people don't give a shit what older people have to say in the first place, so why even bother?

[Spider76]

Apart from all the jokes, I've found that the things that keep me fresh and in demand are:

 

1- first and foremost, VERSATILITY. I'm not the best piano player in town. Actually, the older I get the worse I play, because I almost never practice my technique anymore. Literally any kid from music school can play 10 times better than me. BUT...they only play classical or jazz. And they only play piano. And they have little experience playing in a band, grooving, playing in the pocket etc. They mostly play alone together. I play bad piano, bad hammond, bad string/horns arrangements, bad synth, bad vocals...but within my limits I do everything, in a lot of musical styles, and I'm able to blend well with most bands. I read music, I write down charts for the whole band, I record background tracks for singers, I generally get the job done and don't piss anybody off (when it's not strictly necessary ).

The more I do this, the more I realize how much this is more important than being able to play an arcane 20-minute solo with 143 chord reharmonizations that will just make the audience run for the exits.

 

2- I have a day job.

[GovernorSilver]

Young people don't give a shit what older people have to say in the first place, so why even bother?

 

I dunno man, I've had too many younger cousins, nephews, nieces, asking questions nonstop, especially in the 3-5 age range.

 

I've known some older guys that freely volunteer their wisdom to anyone within listening range. I don't mind listening to those guys when I can spare the time. But I totally get why a child or teen would tune out that dude. When I was a kid, I didn't feel like listening to some old guy coming up to me and spouting off out of the blue. They're more likely to listen if they're seeking the knowledge in the first place.

[timwat]

Okay in all seriousness.

 

I get questions and requests from other KB players on a somewhat regular basis. I think this is because once its obvious we both play, I go out of my way to be encouraging to them and give them an honest shout out for whatever they do well. That tends to break the ice.

 

They ask me all kinds of stuff. Sometimes it's been a lick or a harmony idea or something they heard in my playing. The non-jazz guys ask me about that theory kind of stuff or a lick or scale or something. Experienced players who have been to music school, well, of course they never ask about that kind of stuff, but they often want to talk casually about gear, or my stand, or my amp or whatever. Or a venue or band leader or whatever.

 

A lot of church guys have TONS of questions, often because they tell me their church scene is so competitive that when they try to cop a lick from another player, that player will take their hands off the keyboard to prevent anyone from observing their stuff. Yikes. I've never been a "don't share" kind of guy, and I was fortunate to come up with "share everything I can" older players.

 

These days mostly I find myself agreeing with David (EscapeRocks)...be encouraging, be positive, and keep all the "helpful advice" to myself unless someone genuinely wants my input. It doesn't cost anything to be kind and generous with praise to other musicians. God knows it's hard enough as it is just trying to play music without other musos tearing us down.

[timwat]

what the heck. one more piece of advice for any young person (musician or not):

 

Develop a good work ethic.

 

Grit and perseverance will take you places and help you accomplish things that talent and giftedness won't. Self control, the discipline to finish uncomfortable or unpleasureable things is the hallmark of becoming a force to be reckoned with. This is really hard for folks who are talented or gifted to build. But the best things in life can't be hacked. You have to work hard, say "no" to short-term gratification, and keep a long path in the same direction to get anything really worthwhile accomplished.

[TommyRude]

Young people don't give a shit what older people have to say in the first place, so why even bother?

This was started as a joke thread, but turned into a fountain of knowledge. Whether younger keys players use this info or not, hard to say for sure... I imagine some are getting value from it.

[mate stubb]

I have an "Intro to Hammond" talk I sometimes give when I find myself in a studio with a console and younger players who are unfamiliar. I show them how to start it, how to select drawbar sets, what the different drawbars sound like and introduce the concept of shifting octaves by changing registrations. I explain how piano players muddy everything up by playing an octave too low when using the 16' drawbar, and show them how to get the percussion working.

 

Then on to the essential drawbar settings they must know.

 

Then I talk briefly about playing concepts and a few good old tricks - playing percussively and slapping, smears, hit that high note, using fast speed expressively, etc. I can get through it all in about 10 minutes.

 

They are unfailingly appreciative.