Keyboard stand innovations?

[zeronyne]

When I look at currently available multi tier keyboard stands, I find I can bucket them into three main groups (your taxonomy may vary):

 

Alphabet stands: these are the A-frame, X, and Z stands. Closely related are the stands with 4 legs.

 

Monoliths. Ultimate with their Apex and Deltex, and K&M"s similar spider-thing. One central load-bearing pillar with arms.

 

Drum-rack style. Gibraltar and others have made modular, expandable rack systems.

 

I find the first two types (of which I have many) to be aesthetically unpleasing, and, more importantly, the second tier is difficult to position ergonomically in many cases.

 

The latter, which many of you have a version of, seems better but is also expensive.

 

Does anyone have alternatives to these three broad families? This is for live.

[stoken6]

Your first category is very broad. Does it include "accordions " like the K&M 18880? Table stands where the legs fold in to the platform? Their ergonomics can range from very poor to very good, depending on how adjustable the second-tier attachments are.

 

What you call Monolith, I call Column. Because... QuikLok have a stand called the Monolith which is not a column - two supports joined to each other at floor level. It's a "walk-through" (I don't know of other walk-through stands). I think it qualifies as its own category.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Morrissey]

There's always the David Byrne marching band "stand." (Hat tip to this thread: CLONK)

 

 

 

[Doerfler]

Hard to quantify because better and expensive are subjective.

 

I have a K&M 18880 with second and third tiers if necessary.

 

I also have an "Invisible Stand", which are no longer in production.

 

I believe both of these are alternatives to your categories.

[EscapeRocks]

Drum-rack style. Gibraltar and others have made modular, expandable rack systems.

 

 

The latter, which many of you have a version of, seems better but is also expensive.

 

Does anyone have alternatives to these three broad families? This is for live.

 

Yes, the drum rack hardware based stands do have a high initial cost. However, it is the best decision I ever made to go this route. After I got the basic foundation designed, I took a modular approach to the rest. Slowly acquiring more pieces to create what I call the endless possibility stand. Standing gig? use the two 43.5" vertical tubes. Mainstage rig gig? side tube with ipad holder for my Mac Mini Monitor. Three keyboards? etc..etc..etc...

 

In all my years of gigging, this is the most stable and flexible (design-wise) stand system I've used. I got the drum rack wheels, and this make settling up the rig very nice. I have also painted the chrome-steel tubes with automotive DupliColor paint...all about the show

 

Some of the initial parts

 

Basic sitting rig, first assembly

 

Painting the tubes, Duplicolor MetalCast paint

 

Sitting rig in use, Granada Theater Dallas April 2021

 

Three board rig, standing

 

Accessory/Mic holder attachment with an OnStage Stands shelf for my Behringer Model D

 

and finally Mainstage/GigPerformer rig (prior to cable management). 15" HDMI razor thin monitor, and Arturia MiniLab

 

Monitor holder before positioning

 

The one constant in my design is transportability. You just loosen the top clamp on the left and right vertical tubes, and the stand fold/rotates in on itself. Or you can remove the top cross tube (same clamps) and have three small pieces. Either way it fits in the back seat of my truck

[Tom Williams]

My On-Stage KS7365-EJ Z stand comes so close -- solid as a rock -- less than $200 US -- 2nd tier adjusts angle and height independently. It's the best stacking stand I've ever used. But the bugger weighs in at a nasty 30 lb, and is inconvenient to disassemble and/or bulky even when folded. I wish some materials science engineer would move it from steel to, I dunno, titanium (expensive)? Carbon Fiber? Could it be done with aluminum in the US, or maybe with aluminium in another country?

[EricBarker]

Too bad you don't find Column stands aesthetically pleasing, I love my K&M spidey, it's super easy to transport and setup. The only downside is it's not great for sitting down, as it puts a bar in my face, but I almost never play sitting.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Could it be done with aluminum in the US, or maybe with aluminium in another country?

 

Ha tom you made me laugh.

 

At first I thought "why are you spelling it correctly at the end "aluminium" yet in my head I was hearing you pronouncing it American style as aluminum .then it clicked you WERE making the "difference" joke...that so cracked me up because of my delayed reaction to getting it.

 

As i find the differences in our similar language fascinating I mention all this in freindly banter so not "having a go" as I know in reverse Aussie "ockerism" is humorous to many and so it should be hee hee.

 

you mentioned titanium.. would you pronounce titanium the same way as aluminium?

 

Anyway now I am logged into this thread to receive updates ..Cheers for that hee hee

[ElmerJFudd]

Other variants.

 

standtastic

 

 

jaspers

 

 

 

korg

 

On stage

[miden]

Pity that Korg one does not have secondary tiers that are still available...that's a cool stand that would fit a PC4 nicely!

[Iconoclast]

@EscapeRocks:

 

I really love your projects and when compared to some of the K&M options it's not really any more expensive.

 

One thing I really worry about is setup/teardown time and the dimensions of the stand once folded up.

 

And then of course it's the huge leap into the unknown that tends to hold me back! The stock keyboard kits they have are not what I want and I really don't understand what all the pieces do so I have no real idea how to piece my own contraption together.

[timwat]

@EscapeRocks:

 

I really love your projects and when compared to some of the K&M options it's not really any more expensive.

 

One thing I really worry about is setup/teardown time and the dimensions of the stand once folded up.

 

And then of course it's the huge leap into the unknown that tends to hold me back! The stock keyboard kits they have are not what I want and I really don't understand what all the pieces do so I have no real idea how to piece my own contraption together.

 

 

I just took the plunge and went Gibraltar, inspired by David's and others who have gone down the path of shiny chrome drum hardware.

 

TL;DR: I'm really pleased with it, I consider it good value for what I spent (which was not insignificant). It sets up and tears down quickly, it REALLY looks great on stage, and having now gigged with it several times, I'm very pleased and would not think twice about it.

 

Some anecdotal findings:

 

- Setup/teardown time is very quick AS LONG AS YOU USE THEIR MEMORY LOCKS.

 

- Admittedly, initial setup was finicky, and I made a few errors with positioning and orientation of the clamps, memory locks, leveling, etc. It took me a couple of days to get it all correct, and then I spent some time practicing how to take it down / set it up quickly. But I'm anal that way, I practice setup and teardown until it's rote and have done that for years.

 

- The video below was REALLY helpful because I wasn't at all experienced with this stuff, and I'm not that handy a guy.

 

- I was planning to paint it red like David has done, but my wife suggested leaving it chrome - she like that look better, and so far I'm really happy. If I change my mind, I've still got the can of paint.

 

- You should make sure you have buy a magnetic level as shown in the video - they're cheap and I think really necessary to get things correct.

 

- Also, I can vouch for the fact that most KB players probably don't own a single drum key, and the drum department at most Guitar Centers are completely unstaffed these days LOL

 

- Finally, the whole thing breaks down to fit into a standard speaker stand bag. I can carry it with one arm, and while the bag is longer than my bagged Baby Spider Pro, it's still an easy pack.

 

 

 

Here's the Gibraltar video of the stand I built:

 

[video:youtube]

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Add to that list above the T shaped stand [when folded]. But please read my diatribe to the bottom before i explain what it is to those who havent come across it.

 

Firstly & ironically Im gonna say [shoot me down if you must]...a properly built X stand is hard to beat. but properly built [probably top of the line at the time?].

 

I realised how good an X stand can be after recently replacing my very expensive at the time 80's quik lok X stand [double braced] at the beginning of the lockdown last year with a lightweight Column stand as i needed something more portable due to health [not realising covid was coming]. I found this X stand was rock solid, quick setup with absolutely no bounce. Also this one had very adjustable second tier where i could get the top keyboard to be actually resting on the lower keyboard if i wanted. [and a third i never used live] incredible manufacturing quality. But for me far too heavy now & cumbersome in car. The extra tiers although the most adjustable and perfect added a lot bof weight & were very bulky to carry to a gig. Quality X stand means heavy where cheapies are light but crap & gave X stands a bad wrap.

 

Never gave me one ounce of trouble since the 80s. [ironically & coincidentally on my very last gig before the column stand arrived] while wheeling it out on a trolley luckily at the end of our last gig i heard an item hit the trolleys floor. It was one of the two centre nuts holding one of the 2 X bars had dropped off. You know i dont remember ever having checking these other than a glance in the 40 years before that nut untwisted itself on this rattily trolley [it could be easily avoided/ solved by putting an extra nut as locking nut on if room or burring the thread so it cant fall all the way off or using locktite though i never felt the need]. I think stellar performance and having two Xbars meant that the other bolt held it if it happened on stage to be addressed before a catastrophy.

 

This was one well built X stand & yes i have probably 8 different ones from different keyboards to compare [most of them crap some others good] but this one with its 3 tiers was amazing and the chiefs so adjustable. Ill never let it go its gold. BUT DO GET A 2 BRACE X stand. Extra strength, stability & a secondary nut if one does losen after 40 years hee hee..

 

Why did I stop using it? Ok i purely replaced it for portability & columns are portable. I believe now every column stand has a certain amount of bounce due to the V shaped arms. When i first tried the new one out I was a little befuddled or bemused by the bounce as i had forgot about it but then embraced it as it reminds me of my 80s Apex stand. So its nostalgic & I found the bounce not a deal breaker as I feel young again hee hee. Although as yet I haven't gigged with it. I have only used for many practises between lockdowns & a jam with another band. So no gigging as covid killed our gigs & then when we got our first "new" gig I quit the band due to the direction it was going post covid. So no actual gig with it & maybe never as I may have quit for good????

 

Originally in the 80s i got rid of the apex simply because the legs would always fly out of ther holders while carrying and the handle broke early in the piece. Otherwise I liked it.

 

This X stand I had since the 80s never let me down but being large it was cumbersome for me [due to my health] so went back to a column style. [similar in style to what I had in the 80s. i must have had one of the first Apex stands in Australia at the time wow what a crazy stand back then people just couldnt believe it.]

 

No matter how bad a wrap X stands get I now realise after that a well built X stand is a Joy. Buy good X stands to really give a critique as the cheapies really are unfair on the original design.

 

 

But heres a heads up on a rock solid design [the most rock solid i have found] which if it could be made in aluminium to lighten it Id say it would be the best. Its a T shaped stand when folded and is not mentioned in the above list. brand unknown as it came with my heavy Kawai MP9500 [but I believe 2 companies make them].. its like you are playing on a heavy unmovable table. But to carry its just a little heavy & weird shape for my feeble health [not for normal people] but if one could be made in "aluminium / aluminum" hee hee Id be sorely tempted for a single keyboard stand to gig with that. it can be had with an extra tier but i dont have that luxury so cant comment.

 

So T stand...check it out. Weird looking but bloody good cobber ......................"So do yourself a favour"

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Pity that Korg one does not have secondary tiers that are still available...that's a cool stand that would fit a PC4 nicely!

 

Even though we [you & I] are stuck in OZ with little chance of obtaining things easily from the manufacturers. Perhaps grab a second hand full stand & take the cross beams & add it to your stand.

 

Sure you have the old uprights left over but I bet you can find a used complete stand as not everyone who bought the keyboard liked the stand. I have seen one for sale in unused condition a year ago & thats was without looking for one [i was looking at other stands sold used] & it wasnt too expensive.

 

Personally Im in two minds with them. On the positive It reminds me of my beloved Vox Jaguar [but not close enough]. I so loved my jaguars stand but ironically to fit it on top of my Yamaha CP30 I had to make a yukky Dexion stand at the back to hold it up on the CP30 [loosing the beautiful jaguar stand]. But the original stand was a beautiful design when fitted the the Vox.

 

On the negative I get the feeling its bulky & heavy to gig with??? But its a stunning design on its own & I love form as much as function.

[CowboyNQ]

I still haven"t found anything better than the 18880 for the combined weight, load bearing ability and quickness of set up/tear down factors. This very forum was quite influential in helping me make that decision.

 

Mine has been beaten to heck over tens of thousands of kilometres on the road but keeps on keeping on. I have been strongly considering the 18820 as a replacement when it dies though. Not too sure and hopefully don"t have to make that call for a while.

 

I"m not 100% opposed to x stands either. Greatly prefer them to columns.

 

The Gibraltar stuff looks sweet on stage and is so flexible but wouldn"t suit me from a speed and weight perspective. I"ve never been one to worry about what my KB stand looks like anyway.

 

As I say to backline companies - 'as long as it keeps my gear off the ground'.

[ElmerJFudd]

I"ve longed for a solid two tier that folds down truly compact and easy to carry as well as setup. Every design has its pros and cons. But few really break down and carry well. Even the Ultimate and Spider style stands, that tube you"re left with isn"t a great carry. I use the standtastic of late, which breaks down into a bag. Setup isn"t as quick and easy as an X or a Ultimate.

 

So is this what they call a T?

 

[miden]

Pity that Korg one does not have secondary tiers that are still available...that's a cool stand that would fit a PC4 nicely!

 

Even though we [you & I] are stuck in OZ with little chance of obtaining things easily from the manufacturers. Perhaps grab a second hand full stand & take the cross beams & add it to your stand.

 

Sure you have the old uprights left over but I bet you can find a used complete stand as not everyone who bought the keyboard liked the stand. I have seen one for sale in unused condition a year ago & thats was without looking for one [i was looking at other stands sold used] & it wasnt too expensive.

 

Personally Im in two minds with them. On the positive It reminds me of my beloved Vox Jaguar [but not close enough]. I so loved my jaguars stand but ironically to fit it on top of my Yamaha CP30 I had to make a yukky Dexion stand at the back to hold it up on the CP30 [loosing the beautiful jaguar stand]. But the original stand was a beautiful design when fitted the the Vox.

 

On the negative I get the feeling its bulky & heavy to gig with??? But its a stunning design on its own & I love form as much as function.

 

Yeah it's a great design which was where I was coming from too....haha I DID do a bit of check around and I found a store that has three, but I'm not buying two new ones just for an extra tier haha, and I couldn't find any s/h either ....that one David and now Timwat have invested looks do-able, BUT I am still not convinced of the tear down and erect time being that quick...to me quick is about 30 seconds, which is what it takes for the Z stand, BUT it's a pita to carry easily. (without completely dismantling it)

[AUSSIEKEYS]

So is this what they call a T?

 

 

yes siree..thats it..thanks for the photo. Now I did notice 2 known companies making it & I reckon some Chinese companies on ebay.

 

I cant tell you if thats the actual brand but the design is similar. The one i have is very sturdy in single tier mode with a very heavy Kawai MP9500 on it.

I can highly recommend it for sitting but Ive never used it for standing cause once i fitted the keyboard on top I cant lift it off hee hee..

 

This was being sold separate from the keyboard by the seller but when I saw it in person I took a gamble on it as it didnt have the keyboard on top to test it. After getting it home i was astounded how good it was. I cannot tell you about the 2nd tier or standing at it though. It folds up reasonable compact although the T shape makes for interesting packing but fits nicely behind a car seat in the floor well. Its heavy but no heavier than a heavy X stand but far more compact.

 

Infact it was when I was searching for a stand I found this but he was also selling the piano by coincidence when i looked at his other items for sale. I was dubious on its ability so did a lot of googling & decided to buy the piano but was not expecting Id want the stand [i really wasnt expecting it to be so good]. So i went to pickup the keyboard & he offered me the stand for a good price.

 

So chasing a stand helped me locate the MP9500 Id always wanted. Needless to say now I was still looking for a stand as this stand had to carry the Kawai as it was definitely fit for the heaviest keyboard.

 

But please if its an unknown manufacture check it out incase its an inferior copy..ironically many copies can be just as sturdy so its still worth a physical look.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Yeah it's a great design which was where I was coming from too....haha I DID do a bit of check around and I found a store that has three, but I'm not buying two new ones just for an extra tier haha, and I couldn't find any s/h either ....

 

yeah only do able here if you can find 2 used ones as anything new is getting the old antipodes extra tariff that main manufacturers put on our new goods.

Ive gone from buying new to buying used on major purchases now and it seemed to correspond with my joining the internet. We now realise how much more we are paying than overseas.

 

It'd be a waiting game to locate 2 but I think doable if living in a capital city [to make it a pickup exercise as postage may elevate the equation] ironically I find buying second hand here is also difficult as there seems less available used now than in the old Trading post days. that doesnt make sense...

 

but keep an eye out

[stoken6]

Could it be done with aluminum in the US, or maybe with aluminium in another country?

 

Ha tom you made me laugh.

Me too. It's too early in the morning for me here - I about to post a smartass message about "why is American Alu any different from Alu in other countries"

 

And then I got the joke.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[lsj]

standtastic all the way. I have two of them a two tier and a three tier which I bought additional arms to make it a four tier. the most adjustable stand out there.

[bfields]

So is this what they call a T?

 

Oh, I have that, or something nearly identical, branded QuikLok. Looks like it might be this one?: https://www.quiklok.com/product/ws-550-heavy-duty-mixer-stand/

 

And for a second tier they sell this: https://www.quiklok.com/product/z-727-adjustable-2nd-tier/ which also needs this: https://www.amazon.com/Quick-Keyboard-Accessory-WS-550-Mixer/dp/B003R7KUWG.

 

Looks solid, but no idea what setup/teardown would be like.

[Morrissey]

I cant tell you if thats the actual brand but the design is similar. The one i have is very sturdy in single tier mode with a very heavy Kawai MP9500 on it.

I can highly recommend it for sitting but Ive never used it for standing cause once i fitted the keyboard on top I cant lift it off hee hee..

 

This was being sold separate from the keyboard by the seller but when I saw it in person I took a gamble on it as it didnt have the keyboard on top to test it. After getting it home i was astounded how good it was. I cannot tell you about the 2nd tier or standing at it though. It folds up reasonable compact although the T shape makes for interesting packing but fits nicely behind a car seat in the floor well. Its heavy but no heavier than a heavy X stand but far more compact.

 

+1 on the T stand. I have a similar story; I obtained a T stand when a seller threw it in as an extra with a keyboard I bought from him. Didn't think much of it at the time but I've come to really like it, for the reasons described here.

[PianoMan51]

Lots of choices. I use a K&M 18880 mainly because of the incredible light weight.

 

But for me there is an unmet need of us giggers. We need stands that will help us better display our musical craft to the audience. And designed for easy setup and reasonable price. Remember, many if not most people hear with their eyes. Here are some examplesâ¦

 

1. When I"m just playing I want to face across stage toward the band, just like a Steinway D with the NY Philharmonic. In this way the audience sees my face and my hands. But when I sing a song I want to face the audience directly. And then back for the next song.

 

2. When I play a RH solo I"d like the keyboard to momentarily tip toward the audience so they can see the keys as well as hear.

 

3. When I"m playing LH bass I want a smaller keyboard to be located on the left, over my main board, and tilted so that I can play it easily and the audience can clearly see what I"m doing.

 

This is stuff that any amateur theatre director knows, but we"re stuck in the straight jacket of our gear.

[CEB]

I"m holding out for true invisible stands. Anti gravity repulser lifts. Just have to wait for technology to catch up.

[Throbert]

I like to draw a bit, simple, mechanical, to answer my own, if I was to design/build a stand for my needs? I came up with this,

to build you would need to know how to or know a TIG welder which is best for Aluminum, you would have to know the type

of Aluminum to use. The second tier crossbar fitting might need a little mill work they need to adjust up/down for fine tuning

[drawback]

Here's the Gibraltar video of the stand I built:

 

 

FYI - the link shows an error.

[ElmerJFudd]

So is this what they call a T?

 

 

yes siree..thats it..thanks for the photo. Now I did notice 2 known companies making it & I reckon some Chinese companies on ebay.

 

I cant tell you if thats the actual brand but the design is similar. The one i have is very sturdy in single tier mode with a very heavy Kawai MP9500 on it.

I can highly recommend it for sitting but Ive never used it for standing cause once i fitted the keyboard on top I cant lift it off hee hee..

 

This was being sold separate from the keyboard by the seller but when I saw it in person I took a gamble on it as it didnt have the keyboard on top to test it. After getting it home i was astounded how good it was. I cannot tell you about the 2nd tier or standing at it though. It folds up reasonable compact although the T shape makes for interesting packing but fits nicely behind a car seat in the floor well. Its heavy but no heavier than a heavy X stand but far more compact.

 

Infact it was when I was searching for a stand I found this but he was also selling the piano by coincidence when i looked at his other items for sale. I was dubious on its ability so did a lot of googling & decided to buy the piano but was not expecting Id want the stand [i really wasnt expecting it to be so good]. So i went to pickup the keyboard & he offered me the stand for a good price.

 

So chasing a stand helped me locate the MP9500 Id always wanted. Needless to say now I was still looking for a stand as this stand had to carry the Kawai as it was definitely fit for the heaviest keyboard.

 

But please if its an unknown manufacture check it out incase its an inferior copy..ironically many copies can be just as sturdy so its still worth a physical look.

 

A+ for table stand-like sturdiness. But it"s break down size and shape could be smaller, more compact.

[vonnor]

For me, a stand has to be rock solid, no sway during play, either side-to-side or front-to-back. My solution is USS (Ultimate Support) tubes and "T" connectors I have found over the years. I can cut the tubes to exact lengths needed and assemble the whole thing. Holds like 500lbs and doesn't move at all. Admittedly the huge disadvantage is you can't break it down easily, but it fits in my SUV easily enough and weighs about 6lbs total.

 

 

~ vonnor

[EscapeRocks]

For me, a stand has to be rock solid, no sway during play, either side-to-side or front-to-back. My solution is USS (Ultimate Support) tubes and "T" connectors I have found over the years. I can cut the tubes to exact lengths needed and assemble the whole thing. Holds like 500lbs and doesn't move at all. Admittedly the huge disadvantage is you can't break it down easily, but it fits in my SUV easily enough and weighs about 6lbs total.

 

~ vonnor

 

Love it... I love the old USS tubes.

 

Also, for those playing the home game, it is not the same as the thin walled PVC.....