Any love for the Hammond XK-1C?

[miden]

I have found one for a decent price, and was thinking of maybe adding it to the PC4, (for certain gig setups)...what's the general consensus (if there is one?) for this 'board?

 

Good enough to replace the organs on the PC4, which are giving me headaches programming them into multis as they all use like, a gazillion efx slots!!

 

EDIT: there was also a Nord Electro 3 , but that would double up too much I'd reckon....

[AnotherScott]

I think jazzers tend to prefer XK-1C to Nord, rockers more often the reverse. Either would give you better organ than Kurz. If you don't need the extra keys for other reasons, you could also try running VB3m on your smartphone and playing that from your PC4 multis instead of the board's internal organ. Cheaper, and less to carry. (Though as many here probably know, I always prefer 2 boards anyway.)

 

XK1C vs Electro 3 in other ways: Hammond is better as a MIDI controller, and has the real drawbars rather than the LEDs . Nord might give you some pianos you might like to play from the PC4, and if you want to use your own custom samples, while PC4 can do it, it's painless on the Nord. They also have some cool, unusual sounds in their downloadable sample library.

[mate stubb]

While I prefer Mojo 61 to the XK-1C, the Hammond did a respectable job for me in a jazz funk quartet for several years. Sim was OK, which is high praise from me considering that I consider all previous Hammond sims to be completely unacceptable. Nevertheless, I ran it thru a Mini Vent.

[miden]

Cool, thanks Scott and Moe - yeah I'd also be looking to play synth parts (on the pc4) as well, so it could nicely double up for that...I currently have a Arturia keylab 49 as a second, but for band practice and for those gigs where I just need a smaller single board, I do find 49 keys a bit restrictive.

 

Appreciate the feedback!

[Dave Bryce]

It's really lightweight, too...I had one for a while and really liked the sounds, but I could make one side raise off the (Apex) stand by sweeping the keyboard too aggressively.

 

dB

[Mark Schmieder]

I love my XK-1c, and it's interesting timing as I was just wondering whether I should bring it to the east coast as it will fit in the car without hogging all the space, unlike my Sequential Prophet XL. But its lack of aftertouch and velocity is a problem for me; I'd more likely buy another Arturia controller. I don't use organ sounds much; I feel they're best in small doses, like harmonica and electric piano. And I mostly like warm jazz tones.

 

Another idea I have is to get the XK-5, but not bother with the second manual, but I haven't checked whether its superior keyboard bothers to be a MIDI controller for other sounds or not (i.e. aftertouch, velocity).

 

The XK-1c can practically be lifted with one's pinky. It also accepts the half-moon accessory, which I documented earlier on the forum regarding its great ergonomics but poor attachment specifics -- I may eventually customize the attachment to take care of this silly oversight on Hammond's part (silly as in a silly millimeter longer, to make an inappropriate 60's reference).

[konaboy]

never tried the XK-1C, given that it is so light, how is the build and contruction?

are we talking a metal chassis here, or plastic?

how is the feel of the drawfaders?

[Aidan]

never tried the XK-1C, given that it is so light, how is the build and contruction?

are we talking a metal chassis here, or plastic?

how is the feel of the drawfaders?

 

I had an SK1 for many years, which is pretty much the same. Metal chassis (albeit quite light and thin). The drawbars are fine unless you're a VERY picky and regular B3 player, I'd say. I only swapped it out for my Electro 5D because I wanted something light which I could cover an entire gig with in extremis, and I wasn't at all impressed with the Hammond's pianos and EPs. It also gave me an opportunity to expand to a 73-key board, although of course that variant is available in the SK-1 too.

[AnotherScott]

yeah I'd also be looking to play synth parts (on the pc4) as well, so it could nicely double up for that...I currently have a Arturia keylab 49 as a second, but for band practice and for those gigs where I just need a smaller single board, I do find 49 keys a bit restrictive.

The Xk1C could replace the Keylab pretty well in that it would both give you an organ AND a 3-zone MIDI controller, which could drive the same external sounds you could drive from the Keylab, including allowing you to create user presets in the keyboard that would send the desired Program Changes to the external device(s). Though for triggering synth sounds, you would be more limited by its lack of pitch bend, mod wheel, or aftertouch. The Nord Electro 3, besides missing those items as well, is also missing the MIDI controller functions that allow you to send Program Changes or enable/disable external MIDI transmission at different times and/or over different sets of keys.

 

I love my XK-1c...But its lack of aftertouch and velocity is a problem for me

XK-1c does send velocity. While velocity is not relevant for its internal organ sounds, it does send velocity over MIDI to any other sound source you may be triggering from it.

 

Another idea I have is to get the XK-5, but not bother with the second manual, but I haven't checked whether its superior keyboard bothers to be a MIDI controller for other sounds or not (i.e. aftertouch, velocity).

Same... it sends velocity, but not aftertouch.

[Adan]

All depends on the price I guess. Hammond has upped it's clone game with the SKPro. But in my opinion the Clone Wars have sort of reached a plateau where improvements are so incremental they will generally only matter to idiots like us who obsess about the tiny details of leslie sims, C/V, etc. To 99.5% of your audience, an XK1c will sound great. You could also decide later to pull in the B3X app, which supposedly is "pre-wired" to Hammond clones like the XK for ease of implementation. You probably don't need it, but good to know it's an option.

[Delaware Dave]

how about VB3-m ($13) played from the arturia that you own? only 49 keys but it still would be a great organ setup. one other thing, unless you are running complex setups (multis) on your PC4 you should still have enough fx units. a double leslie uses 14 efx units and the PC4 runs 32 in total. the other thing to consider is a vent. run the pc4 organ out an aux out into a vent, that should reduce the total efx units usage of the PC4 to 4 units for organ. that would leave 28 for everything else in the multi as well as providing a better leslie effect. hooking up the vent takes about one minute of setup time.

[miden]

how about VB3-m ($13) played from the arturia that you own? only 49 keys but it still would be a great organ setup. one other thing, unless you are running complex setups (multis) on your PC4 you should still have enough fx units. a double leslie uses 14 efx units and the PC4 runs 32 in total. the other thing to consider is a vent. run the pc4 organ out an aux out into a vent, that should reduce the total efx units usage of the PC4 to 4 units for organ. that would leave 28 for everything else in the multi as well as providing a better leslie effect. hooking up the vent takes about one minute of setup time.

 

Yes, that is possibility. In fact I was thinking along the lines of getting an iPad mini (with the A12 chip) and VB3m ...the Arturia keybed is very good and it has easy aftertouch...The XK I was considering, as it is a Hammond product, ergo should be more genuine than anything else. The thoughts of users above indicating it's lightness are a bit of a concern though. A local friend (and excellent Hammond player who owns a B3 and various others like SK2 SKX and XK3c) gave a similar view. The one I am looking at is AUD $1500, but he suggested about $1000 is on the mark so I might let this one go and maybe try and find an SK series unit, if I go that path and not the VB3 path.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

My SK1-73 definitely sounds better than the KB3 in my PC3s. I had a Nord Electro 3, which I also liked more than the KB3, but after use for a while, all the organ sounds didn't differentiate well when one changed the "drawbars" that Nord used. I worked on MANY real B3 and C3 during my years of electronic musical instrument service, and knew what it should sound like. I personally prefer the SK1, even though the added non-organ sounds aren't nearly as varied as the PC3 to the Nord. (Later versions may well be improved).

Currently, most of the time, I use an iPad connected to the PC3 (or a lightweight MIDI controller) running either Galileo or Korg Module for my Hammond/Leslie sounds.

[CEB]

Hammond, Anything else Is just a clone.

[cphollis]

Hammond, Anything else Is just a clone.

 

Also true in the iOS software world as well, it seems. The Hammond-branded B-3X (from IK Multimedia) through headphones will spoil you for anything else. It's too bad they jacked up the price recently.

 

One of the appealing things of newer boards like the MODX is that it's easier to add an iPad to your rig. Unfortunately, there aren't any drawbars. etc, so you end up playing presets. But they are mostly great presets.

[miden]

Hammond, Anything else Is just a clone.

 

Also true in the iOS software world as well, it seems. The Hammond-branded B-3X (from IK Multimedia) through headphones will spoil you for anything else. It's too bad they jacked up the price recently.

 

 

Yes I saw that, not sure why - you'd think with all these COVID restrictions dropping the price would create more sales as folks are stuck at home - it IS a great emulation though (well at least to this Hammond novice) - IF I go the iPad route, I might even stump enough to get the IK B3 - I already have VB3m.

[Delaware Dave]

i had some issues with my equipment this afternoon and went with KB3 into a vent. after the first set i started tweaking the KB3 organ and moved to the 'mellow' setting as well as making an 'upper volume adjustment' on the Tonewheel page; this changed the tonality of the organ and sending it through the Vent actually sounded pretty damn good. Now I'm thinking about just going KB3/Vent. For rock organ it actually cut the mustard.....

[Mark Schmieder]

Sorry, I should have been more specific: Note Off Velocity. It's quite critical in certain applications, and even in some contexts where the specific value differences don't matter, all-zeroes can cause issues, so I end up having to reassign to 64 or 80. But it's a minor point; lack of aftertouch kills any hammond keyboard for me as a MIDI controller. I do like the action of the keybed though -- even the Fatar that is in the XK-1c.

[Outkaster]

I think it's a great little clone. Before I inherited an XK5 I had one and it was great front of house. I always got compliments on it. My other keyboard player is using one in her rig now.

[miden]

I think it's a great little clone. Before I inherited an XK5 I had one and it was great front of house. I always got compliments on it. My other keyboard player is using one in her rig now.

 

Cool, thanks!

[bennyray]

I helped a friend a few years ago by downloading the tonewheel sets from Jim Alfredson.

 

https://jimalfredson.com/?p=272

[miden]

Just wanted to return to the thread to say I ended up going for keeping the Arturia which has a beautiful keybed, and great aftertouch and match that up with one of the new iPad Mini's running at least VB3m and maybe even the Hammond B-3X, if it comes on special again.

 

I ummed and ahhed a LOT over getting the 'board of the OP, and I looked at other the suggestions, but it came down to the iPad giving me superb sounding organs, with a device that also has a lot of control including nine sliders! And the new A12 Bionic chip and Neural engine give it a lot of grunt, possible even more than my aging iPad Pro 12" (1st gen).

 

Thank you to everyone who contributed, your time and suggestions were much appreciated.

 

Dennis

[CEB]

Possibly the main consideration is where in the keystroke does the organ voice trigger.

[miden]

ummm, not like the PC4, but, for me anyway, it feels pretty high. Smears work pretty well.

[Mark Schmieder]

So I checked my instrument notes the other day, and it says the XK-1c only delivers a Note On Velocity of 100, Note Off velocity of 0, and no Channel Aftertouch.

 

Maybe it defaults that way, and others have found a way to set it up to work well as an actual MIDI controller?

 

I'm frightfully busy with my sell-off of 100% of my rack gear and other excess stuff as I size down in preparation for more mobility, but will see if I can find info in the user manual now.

 

UPDATE: I have verified in the user manual that this device SHOULD send actual Note On Velocity and Note Off Velocity. I don't see a mode setting that disabled that.

 

I won't have time for a few days, to set up the keyboard and dive through its menus, hook it up, and see if I can do some sort of system reset followed by a loading of my banks.

 

But I wonder if previous models DIDN'T support Note Velocity (On or Off) and maybe this is overridden on a patch level, so that my ports of my older patches are at fault?

[AnotherScott]

All the models with MIDI controller functions at least supported velocity for Note On. That would include XK3c, and anything in the SK series, at least.

[hazerkeys]

love my hammon XK1c .. replaced a Korg CX-3 (new model) and sound better, weighs less, etc ... leslie sim is great as well ... currently usign wtih my Pc1x for giging ... (have a PC4 but way more board than I need, may sell ti and go with the SP6)

[pawelsz]

So I checked my instrument notes the other day, and it says the XK-1c only delivers a Note On Velocity of 100, Note Off velocity of 0, and no Channel Aftertouch.

 

Maybe it defaults that way, and others have found a way to set it up to work well as an actual MIDI controller?

 

I'm frightfully busy with my sell-off of 100% of my rack gear and other excess stuff as I size down in preparation for more mobility, but will see if I can find info in the user manual now.

 

UPDATE: I have verified in the user manual that this device SHOULD send actual Note On Velocity and Note Off Velocity. I don't see a mode setting that disabled that.

 

I won't have time for a few days, to set up the keyboard and dive through its menus, hook it up, and see if I can do some sort of system reset followed by a loading of my banks.

 

But I wonder if previous models DIDN'T support Note Velocity (On or Off) and maybe this is overridden on a patch level, so that my ports of my older patches are at fault?

 

I have connected XK-1c to Reface CP or P-515 and could play with velocity, so Note On velocity is surely supported via midi. Not sure about Note Off velocity. IIRC the dynamics control was far from perfect, but it worked. You can also set the velocity curve, there are few of them, maybe three and fixed one or something like that.