Dilemma - Cantabile Gig Performer Camelot Pro...

[miden]

I have an older licence for Cantabile and have used it extensively in the past, however to get VST 3 I need to upgrade the licence at a cost of $135 AUD. So I got to thinking, there is Gig Performer and Camelot Pro - the latter I already have on the iPad.

 

They are priced at near $240 AUD, BUT are perennial licences rather than an annual subscription that is Cantabile.

 

So my question is, is it worth stumping up nearly $100 more for either Camelot or GP4? I have no real -world experience of GP at all, but Camelot Pro on iOS works sorta ok, albeit a bit buggy at times. Bearing in mind that it is a once only purchase (afaik??)

 

And also bearing in mind that with VST3 support I may not need to upgrade Cantabile again for a long time. It does keep running (at the latest version before the sub expires) so theoretically forever if you do not need to change anything. I guess??

 

So hence the conundrum

[miden]

No-one?

[EscapeRocks]

As a very early adopter of GP, I can say that GP4 is leaps and bound above even GP3

 

I used to keep Mainstage and GP3 until now, and I am finally going to solely go with GP4. Too many minute details and nuances to get into on why GP4 is their best release by far.

 

I have only a cursory experience with Cantibile so I can't comment on it. I did dabble in Camelot a little, and simply didn't like it. I think they are headed in the right direction, but not there yet.

 

The above all my subjective opinions

[miden]

Thanks David, appreciated!

[MPN21]

I run GP4 both in my Windows machine and Macbook Pro. Right after I purchased a license for Forte4, I stumbled upon Gig Performer. It was so easy and intuitive. I had been using Cantabile and BloXander before. Just no match for Gig Performer. I don't bother with Mainstage or any other plugin hosts. GP4 controls all my plugins and effects it. From the start, I was doing things with GP without reading a single line in the manual. I had purchased Forte4 to control my hardware modules, but with GP4 I can use ins files to test and control all my hardware modules though more and more I find it much easier and powerful to come up with my own patches using only plugins. I have Camelot Pro in my iPad and PC. I didn't care for it.

[miden]

I run GP4 both in my Windows machine and Macbook Pro. Right after I purchased a license for Forte4, I stumbled upon Gig Performer. It was so easy and intuitive. I had been using Cantabile and BloXander before. Just no match for Gig Performer. I don't bother with Mainstage or any other plugin hosts. GP4 controls all my plugins and effects it. From the start, I was doing things with GP without reading a single line in the manual. I had purchased Forte4 to control my hardware modules, but with GP4 I can use ins files to test and control all my hardware modules though more and more I find it much easier and powerful to come up with my own patches using only plugins. I have Camelot Pro in my iPad and PC. I didn't care for it.

Cool, thanks!

[davinwv]

I've been using Cantabile for years, but it lacks a simple mixer / channel strip view like Mainstage has. Does GP4 have that?

 

I've also been wondering how Unify would do as a live VST host.

[miden]

I run GP4 both in my Windows machine and Macbook Pro. Right after I purchased a license for Forte4, I stumbled upon Gig Performer. It was so easy and intuitive. I had been using Cantabile and BloXander before. Just no match for Gig Performer. I don't bother with Mainstage or any other plugin hosts. GP4 controls all my plugins and effects it. From the start, I was doing things with GP without reading a single line in the manual. I had purchased Forte4 to control my hardware modules, but with GP4 I can use ins files to test and control all my hardware modules though more and more I find it much easier and powerful to come up with my own patches using only plugins. I have Camelot Pro in my iPad and PC. I didn't care for it.

 

Since you have used Cantabile, can you highlight areas you think GP is better?

[miden]

As a very early adopter of GP, I can say that GP4 is leaps and bound above even GP3

 

I used to keep Mainstage and GP3 until now, and I am finally going to solely go with GP4. Too many minute details and nuances to get into on why GP4 is their best release by far.

 

I have only a cursory experience with Cantibile so I can't comment on it. I did dabble in Camelot a little, and simply didn't like it. I think they are headed in the right direction, but not there yet.

 

The above all my subjective opinions

 

David, can GP4 use bluetooth MIDI?

[Reezekeys]

David, can GP4 use bluetooth MIDI?

On a Mac at least, BT midi is built into the OS so should show up as a source or destination in any app that uses MIDI.

[djdisbro]

No experience with Gig Performer or Camelot, and I get the annual subscription model tends to lead to the yearly "aww crap, I forgot about that". However, Brad's (the developer) involvement and listening to his users and their wants/needs to me is worth the price of admission. As an example, I wanted a way to export a text file a plug-in's parameters. Use case was I wanted to compare different syth vst plug in parameters of the the same model synth (OBXd, OPX-ProII, Arturia Matrix) to try and replicate sounds across them. I think it wasn't even a week later that he had incorporated that into a build. He did say that that wasn't a really difficult thing to do, but I'd only been a user for a couple of months. It was his willingness to listen to a "newbie" request that bought him a long-term customer.

[miden]

I hear ya re Brad, but on this one I think GP (at least from the early look I had may be ok and Camelot definitely is) and Camelot are way ahead. I was reading what I could find at the Cantabile forum and from that I got the gist it is still some way off.

[miden]

David, can GP4 use bluetooth MIDI?

On a Mac at least, BT midi is built into the OS so should show up as a source or destination in any app that uses MIDI.

 

Thanks, yeah I was sorta expecting that same sort of response on W10, now they have really upped the BTe side of things...GP and Camelot are both over (WELL over) the AUD $220 mark so I need to be sure of the choice. IF I jump ship from Cantabile.

[GuitarMage]

You can easily compare features of these, there are comparison charts on the Internet.

 

I'd always buy the most features for the reasonable money (licensing plans).

[miden]

You can easily compare features of these, there are comparison charts on the Internet.

 

I'd always buy the most features for the reasonable money (licensing plans).

 

Thanks yeah already done that, but it's narrowed down to BT capability, with a OS system recognised BT device.

[Reezekeys]

I have an older licence for Cantabile and have used it extensively in the past, however to get VST 3 I need to upgrade the licence at a cost of $135 AUD. So I got to thinking, there is Gig Performer and Camelot Pro - the latter I already have on the iPad.

This came to mind - what do you have that requires VST3 support? I haven't seen a plugin yet that's VST3 -only. At least on the Mac side, most come in all the flavors - AU, VST and (sometimes) VST3. Does VST3 offer more control flexibility on the Windows side? I never really knew what VST3 vs plain VST got me, at least on the Mac. Maybe I'm missing something.

[miden]

ahh, sorry - I didn't really specify that did I...yep all the VST's I want to use have VST2 versions, but I am choosing to stick with VST3 only where possible. It's just a "thing" much like the BTe, I can use midiberry and virtual midi ports and get it running, but I'm looking for something else for this.

 

EDIT: this, btw, is an adjunct to looking at a separate hardware rig upgrade, a self-appointed task ...with COVID re-striking down here, venues that WERE brave enough ton re-instate live muisc, have all now started cancelling again, so I have some free time hahaha!

[GuitarMage]

Maybe I'm missing something.

 

It's just that Steinberg dropped support for VST2.

 

Steinberg is forcing new plugins to be available ONLY in VST3 format but of course there are huge numbers of VST2 plugins out there that are not going away.

[EscapeRocks]

You can easily compare features of these, there are comparison charts on the Internet.

 

I'd always buy the most features for the reasonable money (licensing plans).

 

Thanks yeah already done that, but it's narrowed down to BT capability, with a OS system recognised BT device.

 

Just circling back: I have never tried or cared about BT functionality on my MAC with regards music gigging so I can't answer.

[Reezekeys]

Maybe I'm missing something.

 

It's just that Steinberg dropped support for VST2.

 

Steinberg is forcing new plugins to be available ONLY in VST3 format but of course there are huge numbers of VST2 plugins out there that are not going away.

I had no idea. I guess all my plugins are old! Thanks.

[miden]

You can easily compare features of these, there are comparison charts on the Internet.

 

I'd always buy the most features for the reasonable money (licensing plans).

 

Thanks yeah already done that, but it's narrowed down to BT capability, with a OS system recognised BT device.

 

Just circling back: I have never tried or cared about BT functionality on my MAC with regards music gigging so I can't answer.

 

Ok, cool, thanks David - tbh I'd probably just use a single USB cable, but it's nice to know software has those other capabilities if needed. I have a feeling that, outside the iOS systems, using BTe will need adjunct software like Midiberry (at least short term)...who know what Windows 11 is going to bring (in reality haha)

 

Dennis

[cfcboc]

Hi miden.... Didn't see it mentioned in any of the replies so wasn't sure if you were aware that Brad, the owner/developer of Cantabile is an Aussie. Not sure where he lives there (but it's a very small country, right?)! If you're not far from where he lives, spending a couple hrs with Brad over beers or eats would likely get ALL you questions and concerns addressed.

 

I've used Cantabile, but the Solo edition, for years. There are complexities to setting it up initially and using its many features, but if you've explored the Cantabile forum, you've probably seen there are several experts on the product that frequent the forum on a daily basis and eager to help newbies and struggling users. They are also excellent sources of additional products that will work with Cantabile to handle unusual needs.

 

But what I really find great about Cantabile, is that messages to Brad are personally answered most always within a day and detailed enough to get you around any issue you are having. Because of the time difference, I typically send him a note about an issue I'm having in my evening, and I have aresponse from Brad the following morning. He also keeps improving Cantabile constantly with updates being offered as beta versions to whomever needs the fixes or new functionality right away, and once fully debugged, he makes it available as a production release.

 

If you haven't yet experienced Cantabile 3 versus the older Cantabile 2, there are significant improvements and differences. When I initially did the upgrade, I needed handholding in several areas till I got the hang of it, but that handholding was there from both Brad and the forum members. If you have the time, get the demo version and play around with it, but it may not be as intuitive as some other products. Like keyboards, it's all about personal preferences.

[MPN21]

I run GP4 both in my Windows machine and Macbook Pro. Right after I purchased a license for Forte4, I stumbled upon Gig Performer. It was so easy and intuitive. I had been using Cantabile and BloXander before. Just no match for Gig Performer. I don't bother with Mainstage or any other plugin hosts. GP4 controls all my plugins and effects it. From the start, I was doing things with GP without reading a single line in the manual. I had purchased Forte4 to control my hardware modules, but with GP4 I can use ins files to test and control all my hardware modules though more and more I find it much easier and powerful to come up with my own patches using only plugins. I have Camelot Pro in my iPad and PC. I didn't care for it.

 

Since you have used Cantabile, can you highlight areas you think GP is better?

When I stumbled upon GP when it first came out, I jumped on it because I was able to do complex things with such ease from the start. After that just for the fun of it, I remember that I opened up all other VST hosts; BloXpander, Forte4, and Cantabile and they all gave me a headache just looking at the GUIs! So I'll say definitely the workflow is so much better with GP than any other VST hosts I tried. I used to say that GP makes my Windows machines run like a Mac (as far as "DAW" is concerned.) It seems to me that all plugins run better and smoother. Though I have Mainstage in my Macbook Pro, I haven't touched it after trying out some patches, and I hard ong time users of Mainstage saying that GP runs more efficiently.

 

Bluetooth Midi - Once I asked on the GP forum and Deskew Technologies said something to the effect that they would consider implementing it if there is enough request. Right after I got GP, I asked them about what Roland calls patch remain. They added that feature in a matter of a few days. In GP, it is called patch persist. I understand that Deskew Technologies is composed of a few programmers who are all touring musicians. Years ago, I purchased Live-Styler - the whole works only for its sound samples. A small one man operation in Germany. The young man suddenly died! I used to have very neat apps by O Deus Audio - another one man operation in Australia. He, too, died!!! People couldn't register online. I purchased a second-hand license for vArranger - a realtime arranger which I don't use, but I bought it to manage patches. Yet, another one man operation in France. I'm sure by now you understand what I am trying to say.... Going back to MIDI over Bluetooth. for my Windows machines, I use the Widi Bud. It works very well. Now they are coming out with WIDI Bud Pro that supports multiple Bluetooth midi devices at the same time. I hear the WIDIMaster bluetooth devices work with Korg bluetooth midi driver. I haven't tried it myself. There is no MIDI/DAW out there that supports the new Windows 10 Bluetooth midi protocol except for Cakewalk as far as I know. I'm sure you are aware of Midiberry. There seem to be always solutions for Windows.

 

VST3 - Just upgraded to Reason 11. It is available only in VST3.

[Markay]

I switched from Cantabile to MainStage after corresponding with Brad about offering the GUI features available in MaInStage and Brad decided thats not the direction he wanted Cantibile Performer to go. Gig Performer is eating Cantabile's lunch in terms offering the best GUI and functionality on Windows. On MacOS different story.

 

And as to previous poster suggesting Australia is a small country well no, maybe you are confusing us with Austria. We are the same size as the US, we just have fewer people.

[miden]

I run GP4 both in my Windows machine and Macbook Pro. Right after I purchased a license for Forte4, I stumbled upon Gig Performer. It was so easy and intuitive. I had been using Cantabile and BloXander before. Just no match for Gig Performer. I don't bother with Mainstage or any other plugin hosts. GP4 controls all my plugins and effects it. From the start, I was doing things with GP without reading a single line in the manual. I had purchased Forte4 to control my hardware modules, but with GP4 I can use ins files to test and control all my hardware modules though more and more I find it much easier and powerful to come up with my own patches using only plugins. I have Camelot Pro in my iPad and PC. I didn't care for it.

 

Since you have used Cantabile, can you highlight areas you think GP is better?

When I stumbled upon GP when it first came out, I jumped on it because I was able to do complex things with such ease from the start. After that just for the fun of it, I remember that I opened up all other VST hosts; BloXpander, Forte4, and Cantabile and they all gave me a headache just looking at the GUIs! So I'll say definitely the workflow is so much better with GP than any other VST hosts I tried. I used to say that GP makes my Windows machines run like a Mac (as far as "DAW" is concerned.) It seems to me that all plugins run better and smoother. Though I have Mainstage in my Macbook Pro, I haven't touched it after trying out some patches, and I hard ong time users of Mainstage saying that GP runs more efficiently.

 

Bluetooth Midi - Once I asked on the GP forum and Deskew Technologies said something to the effect that they would consider implementing it if there is enough request. Right after I got GP, I asked them about what Roland calls patch remain. They added that feature in a matter of a few days. In GP, it is called patch persist. I understand that Deskew Technologies is composed of a few programmers who are all touring musicians. Years ago, I purchased Live-Styler - the whole works only for its sound samples. A small one man operation in Germany. The young man suddenly died! I used to have very neat apps by O Deus Audio - another one man operation in Australia. He, too, died!!! People couldn't register online. I purchased a second-hand license for vArranger - a realtime arranger which I don't use, but I bought it to manage patches. Yet, another one man operation in France. I'm sure by now you understand what I am trying to say.... Going back to MIDI over Bluetooth. for my Windows machines, I use the Widi Bud. It works very well. Now they are coming out with WIDI Bud Pro that supports multiple Bluetooth midi devices at the same time. I hear the WIDIMaster bluetooth devices work with Korg bluetooth midi driver. I haven't tried it myself. There is no MIDI/DAW out there that supports the new Windows 10 Bluetooth midi protocol except for Cakewalk as far as I know. I'm sure you are aware of Midiberry. There seem to be always solutions for Windows.

 

VST3 - Just upgraded to Reason 11. It is available only in VST3.

 

Cool, thanks much for that! Nice explanation.

[miden]

I switched from Cantabile to MainStage after corresponding with Brad about offering the GUI features available in MaInStage and Brad decided thats not the direction he wanted Cantibile Performer to go. Gig Performer is eating Cantabile's lunch in terms offering the best GUI and functionality on Windows. On MacOS different story.

 

And as to previous poster suggesting Australia is a small country well no, maybe you are confusing us with Austria. We are the same size as the US, we just have fewer people.

 

Thanks, interesting you mention MacOS, I was also toying with the idea of getting a MAC mini with the new M chip...good to know that perhaps GP is not as good on that platform as it is on windows.

[Deskew Tech]

.good to know that perhaps GP is not as good on that platform as it is on windows.

 

(Disclaimer, I'm one of the GP developers) I'm not sure what to make of this comment --- GP4 is able to run natively on Apple Silicon and in terms of comparison with other products, I would just comment that a huge percentage of our customers are running GP on Mac. As I don't want to show my personal bias (duh!), I would just encourage you to ask our Mac users why they're willing to spend over 5 times the price for GP4 if it wasn't that good :-)

[miden]

haha, be good if you guys offered some sort of "cross-grade" discount...but I don't think companies do that anymore