The "Lingus" solo - what am I missing?

[CyberGene]

I am a Snarky Puppy fan since the beginning and I remember liking the famous Lingus solo at the time while it hasn't still generated the cult following. I may have listened to this track more than the rest exactly because of that solo, I mean it's a very good one.

 

Fast forward a few years later and YouTube is full of some enormous craze about that solo and everyone is talking about it as though it's the best keyboard solo in the world ever and forever. And I just can't understand why that is. I mean, it's indeed a good solo with a lot of energy, etc. but to me it's mostly a well-shredded synth solo that starts with semi-random Gospel chords that are there to create an intimidation rather than follow any logical harmonic development, and the actual synth lines are full of mostly technical chops without anything revolutionary or advanced from an improvisation point of view. I don't feel there's any advanced development or musical thought put into that solo but it might be just me, judging by how many people seem to talk about that solo as the best solo in the world.

 

I know this sounds like a rant and once again: it's indeed a very good solo but why has it become so overhyped? Wondering if I'm the only one.

[marczellm]

The reason Cory's playing moves me so much is very much in line with the way you describe him. His playing, if you analyze it, is not really based on new ideas. When he was asked in Q&A sessions or online "masterclasses" about his theoretical approach, what he described was not really a theoretical approach but just some feelings about what sounds good. But his ear and instinct is so above anybody else and resonates exceptionally well with a particular audience that listening to him still feels revolutionary.

[marczellm]

He's better at selling existing ideas than the people that invented them. Way better.

[niacin]

[video:youtube]

[analogika]

I am a Snarky Puppy fan since the beginning and I remember liking the famous Lingus solo at the time while it hasn't still generated the cult following. I may have listened to this track more than the rest exactly because of that solo, I mean it's a very good one.

 

Fast forward a few years later and YouTube is full of some enormous craze about that solo and everyone is talking about it as though it's the best keyboard solo in the world ever and forever. And I just can't understand why that is. I mean, it's indeed a good solo with a lot of energy, etc. but to me it's mostly a well-shredded synth solo that starts with semi-random Gospel chords that are there to create an intimidation rather than follow any logical harmonic development, and the actual synth lines are full of mostly technical chops without anything revolutionary or advanced from an improvisation point of view. I don't feel there's any advanced development or musical thought put into that solo but it might be just me, judging by how many people seem to talk about that solo as the best solo in the world.

 

I know this sounds like a rant and once again: it's indeed a very good solo but why has it become so overhyped? Wondering if I'm the only one.

The fact that you talk about "logical harmonic development" and "mostly technical chops" and "revolutionary or advanced" developments indicates that you're focusing on the 30% of the playing that's technical prowess and completely missing the 60% that are emotional setup and development.

 

The remaining 10% is Shaun Martin's reactions in the video.

[CyberGene]

The fact that you talk about "logical harmonic development" and "mostly technical chops" and "revolutionary or advanced" developments indicates that you're focusing on the 30% of the playing that's technical prowess and completely missing the 60% that are emotional setup and development.

 

The remaining 10% is Shaun Martin's reactions in the video.

That's actually true since at the time I only used to listen to Lingus as audio and hadn't watched the video, so I missed non-music related context such as that.

[Morrissey]

it's indeed a very good solo but why has it become so overhyped? Wondering if I'm the only one.

 

You're not the only one. I feel exactly the same way. It is very good but not the CH solo I would've chosen to "go viral."

 

 

 

 

The remaining 10% is Shaun Martin's reactions in the video.

That's actually true since at the time I only used to listen to Lingus as audio and hadn't watched the video, so I missed non-music related context such as that.

 

Perhaps Martin's reactions are a key part of this solo having gone viral.

[MathOfInsects]

This thread reminds me exactly of the guitar players who always post under vids playing Prince's "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" solo about NBD, those are just riffs that everyone knows, they could play that solo tonight if they wanted.

 

Yes, you could--because you're watching/listening to it after the fact. Someone already generated it in real time. The magic is in the genius of on-the-fly creation that allows this solo (and Prince's, BTW) to keep finding new gears after you think he already floored it, and to keep all those new gears sounding soulful and organic, even when, hey, what the hell, let's just casually add some LH unison playing to these pyrotechnical 32-note out-of-the ear arcing runs.

 

He's not using some new pitches that he alone invented. He's deploying the "stuff we can all do" in ways that we all most decidedly cannot (at least in real time).

 

Shaun Martin's reactions are what everyone talks about, but let's remember he's also in the "better than all of us" pantheon of players. I feel confident he wasn't leaving because of how disappointed he was that Henry was just deploying a bunch moves we can all pull off. The solo is 100% about HOW Henry develops it, and deploys those monstrous skills with complete musicality.

 

And, of course, those additional 10% that are about Martin's reactions.

 

As for the "intimidating" quartal phrases that kick it off, Henry often treads water just a bit before settling in to an idea, and it often sounds kind of like the beginning of this solo does--a whole-note feel, often quartals, with some gentle harmonic/melodic motion to start the faucet running. Then he abandons them and heads off to the races with the "anyone can do that" stuff that none of us can do.

[CyberGene]

I have never said "I can do that" I'm not a good improviser, just a good listener. My question isn't why that solo is great. Because it is great. My question is: why of all the great solos out there this one got the attention and everybody nowadays mentions it as though it's something better than the rest of the great solos.

 

Just for instance (really, just an example) the Herbie Hancock Rhodes solos in the original recording of Chameleon and Butterfly are IMO absolutely perfect, and (I'm biased) so much better musically that Lingus solo. But you could hardly notice any craze going on regarding these two (or any other of the hundreds of mind blowing solos). Yet the Lingus gets the special treatment.

 

No, I will never play even 1% as good a solo in my life, that's a certain

[MAJUSCULE]

Internet virality is rarely logical.

 

Yes, Shaun Martin's reactions are a big part of this solo's popularity. Among several factors.

[jarrell]

Just for instance (really, just an example) the Herbie Hancock Rhodes solos in the original recording of Chameleon and Butterfly are IMO absolutely perfect, and (I'm biased) so much better musically that Lingus solo. But you could hardly notice any craze going on regarding these two (or any other of the hundreds of mind blowing solos). Yet the Lingus gets the special treatment.

 

I think part of the popularity of this solo is that it is on video. There is no video of Herbie performing the original recordings you mention. Being able to see music, not just hear it, gets more attention.

[CyberGene]

Just for instance (really, just an example) the Herbie Hancock Rhodes solos in the original recording of Chameleon and Butterfly are IMO absolutely perfect, and (I'm biased) so much better musically that Lingus solo. But you could hardly notice any craze going on regarding these two (or any other of the hundreds of mind blowing solos). Yet the Lingus gets the special treatment.

 

I think part of the popularity of this solo is that it is on video. There is no video of Herbie performing the original recordings you mention. Being able to see music, not just hear it, gets more attention.

 

Never thought about that, makes a lot of sense, thanks ðð»

[timwat]

There are recorded solos that still mean a lot to me years after I first encountered them - Chick's Spain, Carlton's Kid Charlamagne, Jan Hammer's Play With Me, Tom Harrell's Sail Away are a few.

 

And of course many more that moved me in a live performance that weren't recorded for posterity.

 

A big part of the magic of improvised music is that it's improvised, taking the compositional elements we all have at our disposal (at least in theory), but doing it live without a net.

 

And it was never a competitive sport - at it's best, it was always a deeply personal vehicle to say what you wanted to say, not get a notch on Chick or Herbie or whomever.

 

This is one reason Keith's improvised long works mean as much as they do to me. They aren't single line compositions; they're entire works, with development, counterpoint, harmonic inventions and melody - all written in public, without editing or a net, with the ten fingers most of us have and a creative mind that most will never approach.

 

Hype is just...hype. Whether it continues to resonate with people long after the hype dies remains to be seen.

 

just my 0.02

[area51recording]

I finally got around to listening after reading this thread. It is a GREAT solo! (Well, it IS Corey Henry, so.....) Greatest solo of all time? Nah, probably not, simply because there is SO MUCH greatness out there, and the odds are long.....beautiful solo though.....

[Docbop]

See threads like this are like the Classical players who view music like a sport and all about perfection in technique and musical complexity versus musicians in other genre based on Art and Feel. I'll take feel any day over technical perfection. Music is a form of language and improvised solos are telling a story, even if I don't know all the words the speaker is using I can feel how they are being delivered and understand.

 

Also seeing Shaun Martin react to Cory's solo brings back so many great memories of hanging with my musician friends listening to records. We hear an incredible bass groove tight with the drummer and start reacting like Shaun. Or listen to a great solo that just fits a song perfect and again be shaking our heads, looking at each other making faces. Playing that makes you do that is great playing be it a bass player grooving his ass off or a soloist telling a great story. Feel trumps technique and complexity any time.

[CyberGene]

See threads like this are like the Classical players who view music like a sport and all about perfection in technique and musical complexity versus musicians in other genre based on Art and Feel. I'll take feel any day over technical perfection.

 

Not sure where that came from. I didn't say I argue the power of a solo. Any solo. Or the value of improvisation. That was not my point, please read carefully. My point is why this exact solo improvisation is being overhyped. This actually creates a disservice to the improvised music as a whole because I don't think spotlighting a single instance of a solo and overhyping it to such an extent, is healthy for the art of improvisation.

[Stokely]

I'm more impressed with the overall band performance, especially Larnell Lewis (who apparently learned much of the album on the plane ride over right before recording if what I've heard is correct.) Not that the solo isn't impressive as heck but I'm just not someone really into solos all that much.

 

I like a few other tunes on that album more than Lingus.

[Mykhailo]

overhyping it to such an extent.

 

[video:youtube]

[Bobadohshe]

Something about the realtime creation of that solo and the energy in the room when it happened is very very special. The way it built and told a story - in a totally organic way, when the ideas get more shredding, then the LH keys come in with that unique timbre, bending harmony like Neo in the Matrix in total control - was really spellbinding. I'll never forget it.

[Spider76]

I agree that it was an amazing musical moment, but also that it's not the best solo on Earth, and not even the best solo Cory ever did. Also agree that a big part of it is the atmosphere of the "live in studio" video, the dreamy face of Cory totally lost in the moment, and the reaction of the band members. I love to watch it, not so much to "only" listen to it without video.

 

From a purely musical standpoint I like much more Shaun Martin's solo on Thing of Gold, for me that's the best synth moment in Snarky Puppy's illustrious discography. Nothing special technically or harmonically, just a lovely, pure, catchy and haunting melody played with tons of heart from a masterfully soulful player. Will never get tired of listening to it.

[video:youtube]

 

The other day I was listening to Culcha Vulcha, which was the only SP CD I still didn't have. I was doing house chores and not paying much attention, but on the last song a synth solo caught my ear and I HAD to stop and listen. I quickly picked up the booklet and looked at the liner notes. Big Ugly. Cory Henry - Moog solo. Ditto.

[video:youtube]

[Morrissey]

I tried to re-watch Lingus today as best I could with "fresh eyes and ears." It is a phenomenal Cory Henry solo, but I stand by my opinion it isn't one of my favorites of his. Posters in this thread have made good observations as to the appeal of the Lingus video. I'll add a few more:

 

First, there is some dramatic surprise about CH's solo. For the first 4:30 of the video, there is no evidence the piece is leading to a CH showcase. Cory's face isn't shown until about 2 minutes. You barely see him until his solo begins. Then it is all about him.

 

Second, I'll amplify some previous comments about the joy exhibited in the video, especially towards the end. Check out Henry and Martin hugging at 10:07. This isn't prideful joy. This is "isn't music amazing?!" joy, and it is beautiful to watch.

[Docbop]

Snarky Puppy is all about the music first and solos are part of the music, but the soloists play for the songs not their egos in my opinion. Michael League the driving force of Snarky Puppy does a great job in picking musicians for the band and selects people who put the song first. Michael's solo album comes out in a few days and looking forward to it from the sample that have been posted. What I understand he is play most or all the instruments himself and he is using mainly acoustic instruments. Should be a album worth checking out.

 

 

Back to Snarky Puppy for a second I love to hear Nick Semrad play with Snarky along with Shaun Martin. Those who might not know of Nick he is the other keyboardist in Cory Henry's bands for years. Over the pandemic Nick has been doing podcast and video for Yamaha (he's an endorsing artist) and really like where he's coming from. He more synth and EP oriented than Cory Henry a bit similar but not the same.

[MathOfInsects]

"Best ever" is sort of a meaningless label. I think the point is, most or all can agree that this is pretty spectacular playing. Sure, we may find other solos "better" in our own opinions, but the stratosphere of playing we're talking about for all these examples is still pretty rarified air.

[Jazz+]

Is the sound he uses two pulse waves? Is it a King Korg?

What's a low budget board like that?

[Mike Davis]

It"s a cunning solo.

[jarrell]

Another way to look at this (pun intended) would be to imagine if every jazz, rock, fusion, pop, classical recording or performance was available on video, shot with multiple cameras, current hi def color technology and a good stereo mix, as in this SP video. So I'm expanding this beyond solos to comping, and groove playing, whatever...

 

Take your pick - Herbie Chameleon original recording session, perhaps Jarrett Koln Concert, Chick Spain recording session, Mahavishnu Birds of Fire, Dreams live, Monk, Miles, Mingus, Parker, Coltranes sessions... Overdubbed pop stuff with multiple videos synced like a Zoom call - Beatles album sessions, Beach Boys, heck Phil Spector and various Wrecking Crew, Motown, Stax sessions, oh, let's not forget Steely Dan sessions too, etc. etc.

 

I think some of these classic recordings would have new found popularity if they could be seen and heard in hi quality video and audio. We are visual creatures; how the band looks, reaction shots, etc. offer additional emotional engagement that audio only recordings cannot.

[Morrissey]

It"s a cunning solo.

 

I see what you did there