Hammond B-2 question

[eriko]

Hello everyone!

 

I have a question about the Hammond B-2 organ. I saw a local advertisement for this organ for $500. First, I wanted to know if this is a pretty good deal, and second, what is the main difference between a B-2 and B-3. If I had more time, I would research the internet, but I have an appointment to look at it this evening. According to the lady I talked to, it belonged to her mother that recently passed away, and she didn't know a whole lot about it. (Come to think about it, I don't know much either!)

Any info would be most helpful.

 

Thank you!

 

Erik

[daBowsa]

I think the B2 doesn't have percussion. $500 seems like a great deal if its in working order.

 

http://vintagehammond.com/selected.asp?ID=271

http://vintagehammond.com/selected.asp?ID=437

[Sven Golly]

Details about the various tonewheel Hammonds can be found at this website .

 

Cheers,

SG

[ElGorilla]

$500 is nice, i saw a B2 here in iceland with a leslie and trek percussion for $15000

 

There are maybe 20 working hammonds in iceland.

[The Captain]

B2's can have smooth or rachety/clacky drawbars.

You'll have to see in person to tell.

 

Add aftermarket percussion (trek2, hampton) and you've essentially got a b3.

 

I played a b2 w/smooth drawbars and percussion at a well-respected studio on a couple of albums. No difference to speak of. Steve Winwood used it too - he seemed to like it.

 

It will probably come with a PR-40 cabinet (a non-rotating but tube speaker), but with any luck it will have a leslie.

 

Don't diss the single speed leslies (fast only) - there's a mod to make them two speed that works well.

 

$500 is fair/good. B2's with percussion mods go for 2-3k on the bay.

[DaveMcM]

Hi Erik,

 

The B2 does not have percussion. However, percussion can be added to the B2 so that is not a problem. I have added a Trek II Percussion unit to my B2 and it is actually better than the original percussion on the B3. Instead of just having the ability to turn 2nd or 3rd harmonic percussion on and off, and only having a choice of fast or slow decay and normal or soft volume, the Trek II offers 2nd, 3rd and 5th harmonic percussion selections each having individual volume faders. The decay is also controlled by a continuous fader. So you have much more control over the percussion than on the stock percussion. An added bonus is the potential to have a combination of 2nd, 3rd and 5th harmonics playing simultaneously all with their own volumes. Plus you can decide which set of tone wheels will be shut off when the percussion is active. This unit creates the percussion sound in the very same way as the B3 original percussion unit so the sound is identical.

 

See the Trek II HERE

 

The other difference is in the physical drawbars. The B2 drawbars have very noticeable notches though the 8 steps that make it very hard to due "on the fly" drawbar changes. The notches were removed on the B3 (the 8 volume steps are still there, but the drawbars move smoothly from one step to the next.

 

All in all, if you can get the B2 for $500.00 that is a very righteous deal.

 

Best Regards,

 

Dave

[The Captain]

If you do the deal, see if you can rent a set of roll-or-kari dollies. I've rented them for $30 here.

 

They make moving the beast MUCH easier...

[eriko]

Hey everyone,

 

Thank you so much for your responses. I do have some time to do some research after all. The lady called me and something came up, so I am going Saturday morning to take a look at it.

I'll definitely keep you posted! Stay tuned...

 

Erik

[JMcS]

Originally posted by eriko:

Hey everyone,

 

Thank you so much for your responses. I do have some time to do some research after all. The lady called me and something came up, so I am going Saturday morning to take a look at it.

I'll definitely keep you posted! Stay tuned...

 

Erik

This was written by Harvey Olsen

Refer to number 8

 

Rating Guide For "Collector-Grade" B3s

 

Something a little different for a Sunday Morning...

I'm often asked to rate old Hammonds but sellers don't always like the results. I put this less-than-serious guide together for just those occasions. It's not meant to be a legitimate guide for evaluating old Hammonds.

 

 

 

10.00

 

This organ doesn't exist! There have been no "perfect 10s" since the last B3 left the factory in the mid-70s. Even then, most B3s were less than "perfect" when they were built! The whimsical "B3-in-a-box" doesn't qualify either because it surely has problems related to age. Forget about trying to figure out what constitutes a "10," this organ is a fantasy mostly in the minds of neurotic collectors. However, in the unlikely event that such an organ does exist, it's hidden away in a glass case somewhere in Japan. You would not be allowed to touch, let alone play it. In fact, no one, not even the current owner is allowed to play it.

 

 

9.00

 

B3s in this range are as good as a 25+ year old console can be. They are original and cosmetically, mechanically, and electrically perfect. However, they almost never come up for sale so don't waste your time looking for one. Should one appear on the market, it means that the owner has died or his family had him committed for excessive obsessive-compulsive behavior!

In any case, the price would be outrageous. You can't afford it unless you are willing to sign over your retirement account and first-born to the seller.

 

 

8.00

 

This was granny's late husband's organ! Six years ago you could have scammed the old girl and grabbed this B3 for 300 bucks but now she KNOWS what a lowlife you really are! An offer that would have brought a smile after the funeral will now likely get you the finger. After all, she has the same resources you have since her son gave her that damn computer! This rig ain't leaving the condo until enough money changes hands for a face lift and an ocean cruise to Tahiti! And keep in mind that granny also needs LOTS of extra cash for the slot machines and blackjack games onboard ship.

 

 

7.00

 

Okay, this B3 is less than perfect but it's not all that bad.

Everything is intact and it plays great. The vacuum cleaner banged into the legs and bench a few times and the music rack that got busted when Darth Vader went airborne was expertly repaired. This organ has been in the same family for almost three generations, it has survived multiple moves, kids, grand kids, and a divorce. Alimony is a bitch so the owner is now willing to part with it for a mere $8000 as long as you pay for the moving. And if you're really nice, he will even toss in the JR-20.

 

 

6.00

 

You would probably rate this B3 as "average," unless, of course, it's on eBay where it would be "mint" or "pristine!" It spent the 50s in a restaurant cocktail lounge where it acquired its quaint yellow keys and smell from all the cigarette smoke and cooking grease. The small burn in the left cheek block is less than attractive. This organ went home with the owner-organist when he retired in 1965 and it has not been played or serviced since. Of course it's full of crud and won't start, but if you bust your ass for several weeks, you can likely restore back to reasonably decent shape.

The asking price for the B3 (and the beater 21H Leslie that came with it) is $5000, or roughly double what the pair sold for new in 1955.

 

 

5.00

 

This organ was sold to a touring gospel group after the original owner/wannabe rock star decided to get a real job. Cosmetics are no longer a factor in determining value. The fall board, music rack, and original bench are missing. Surprisingly, the rest of the organ is mostly intact but it's on it's third set of pedals. Various gospel musicians with huge feet stomped the first two sets of pedals into firewood years ago. By necessity, this B3 has seen serviced regularly but the manuals, drawbars, electronics, etc., are disasters. When it's finally replaced, it will be sold to another gospel group because no one else will pay the asking price.

 

 

4.00

 

This B3 is similar to one above but the damage is more professional.

It was on tour with a name rock act for a number years so the pedals, and even the original console are long gone. The new "console" is essentially a packing crate but that's okay since it lives in a custom flight case. Very little is original, factory parts that weren't replaced were heavily modified. Naturally the organ sounds like shit, any similarity between the sound of this rocker and a stock B3 is purely coincidental. The original owner spent $20,000 for "customizing" but it has been turned into a pile of junk. However, don't think you can buy it cheap! An aging rock-fan-turned stock-broker has offered to pay ten times what it's actually worth for the bragging rights of owning it.

 

 

3.00

 

Newbies believe B3s like this are great but, in reality, the organ is a total RAT! Even diehard B3 enthusiasts are turned off by its deplorable condition. It may work but it requires extensive work before it can be returned to reliable service. Years ago people junked organs in this condition but now have second thoughts. Unless you MUST have THIS organ, don't be tempted by the low price. Considering the average person thinks ANY organ on four legs is a B3, a 60s Lowrey Festival is a better deal. Only your mother or the finance company will know for sure.

 

 

2.00

 

This "organ" qualifies as a B3 because 51% of the original pieces are included in the deal. Of course it doesn't work, it can't! There's not enough "organ" left for it to work! Unless you are certifiably crazy (or active on certain online Hammond users groups), you won't consider "project organs" like this for anything other than salvage. If, by chance, you have already bought this organ, you can always part it out on eBay for a hefty profit. Other Hammond enthusiasts understand your plight so the level of ridicule will be minimal.

 

 

1.00

 

Even the most optimistic enthusiast acknowledges the fact that this piece of junk has lost its right to be called a B3. More pieces are missing than included, and those that remain are too far gone to have any salvage value. However, if the skeletal remains of the console are present, and you are extremely naive, you may still think it still has some "potential." When all the laughs and bad jokes subside, you can always turn this botched autopsy into an abstract sculpture. Even eBay is not an option in cases like this.

 

 

Hope you had some fun with this,

 

Harvey Olsen

Musicville, Inc.

[Hammodel AV]

Erik,

 

I have a 1959 A-100 that I bought for $500, and a 1936 Hammond AV with Trek II percussion (I added it), that I essentially got for $100. Paid more for the Trek II than the organ, BTW. I love them both! Since the B2 has the classic shape (like my AV), it is a bit nicer for public display. $500 is certainly a fair price.

 

Brian.

[mate stubb]

Another B-2 difference: the tonewheels for the bottom notes (pedal tones) are shaped differently than on the B-3. The B-3 went to "complex tonewheels" for the bottom octave or so. These wheels have a different shape and a different sound - more harmonics for the pedal tones.

 

The B-2 has the normal sounding tonewheels in the bottom octave. This is significant IF you choose to get rid of the foldback in the bottom octave of your keyboards.

 

I wired the bottom 12 generators to the bottom octave of the bottom drawbar in the keyboards of my old B-2 to get more bass, since I didn't kick pedals. You could not do this with a B-3 because the tone would drastically change as you cross into the bottom octave.

 

Ratchet drawbars are a pain. You can get dead spots between the numbers which can make it hard to dial new settings fast.

 

The cabinet itself, if in good shape and complete, is worth close to $1000 by itself.

[eriko]

Hello again!

 

Here is the update:

I went to look at the organ this morning, and it turns out that the model is a J-114. Far cry from a B-2. So, no deal for me. On the plus side, I have $500 to buy some other goodies!

 

Thanks again for all your replies!

 

Erik

[RudyS]

too bad, it was too good to be true though.

Have fun buying other stuff with the money...

[zeronyne]

Sorry to necro this thread from 2005, but this B2 with 21H is almost next door to me. Is this a reasonable price if it was recently serviced with no issues found?

[BluesB3]

It varies a lot by geographic area, but this is a little more than I would pay. No percussion, likely ratchet drawbars since it's stock looking, the 21H looks nice but would need a two speed conversion of some sort, cosmetics only fair. For $5000-6000 you could likely find a pretty well maintained B3. I might be tempted to take a chance at $3K if I could play it and look inside.

[The Real MC]

$4K the Leslie alone is worth that. I bought a C2 retrofitted with Trek II percussion for under $1000, without Leslie.

 

One thing to consider is that any Hammond before the B3 series will use the old vacuum tubes. B3 and newer use the 12AX7 style tubes which are still plentiful. The older tubes aren't as easy to find.

[LX88]

I love 2 series organs...

 

It has a different preamp than a 3 series. If you hook headphones up to a 2 you can hear a lot of clarity...if the generator is in good shape.

 

I hear a CV difference in most 2 series...the vibrato seems to be more shallow...less throb.

 

They really built these babies in the early 50s....a bit less mass production.

 

I also like Trek II percussion ...it has volume adjustment and decay right there.

 

There is a 1954 c2 near me that I desperately want but...no room

[sagetunes]

I've got a '54 B-2, love it, added nothing aftermarket because it's the balls the way it is.

[Outkaster]

Way to much. The organ and Leslie if in good condition should be $2500 for that rig.